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Peyton Manning pushed Adam Gase to Jets finish line


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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep, true.  He literally bet on himself as manager, lol.

Larry Bird also went 147-67 in his 3 seasons as a HC and won COY in 1998.

The NBA as a whole is a totally different game though.  Coaching matters far less than the other major sports unless you're a transcendent type like Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Larry Brown or Popovich.

Larry Bird was successful as both a head coach and GM.  Jim Harbaugh was a good, not great NFL qb

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Yep, true.  He literally bet on himself as manager, lol.
Larry Bird also went 147-67 in his 3 seasons as a HC and won COY in 1998.
The NBA as a whole is a totally different game though.  Coaching matters far less than the other major sports unless you're a transcendent type like Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Larry Brown or Popovich.


Yeah, I don’t really count the NBA. Like I said in my first post, it’s not uncommon for a guy to retire and immediately become a head coach, whereas it’s unheard of in the NFL and not something I can recall in MLB either. Though that’s silly in baseball, where there’s not much to being a manager besides not being a complete idiot.
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18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Talking to him is fine.  But if they were contemplating McCarthy or Rhule and Peyton's influence pushed Gase to # 1, that's unacceptable. 

If we had Gase as our # 1 and Peyton's supported helped push us to that decision, I'd be cool with that.  But all the information we have at this time suggests that was NOT the case. 

We either made the right hire through a bad process OR we made the wrong hire through a bad process.  I don't think there's a convincing argument to be made that Gase' hiring was done "the right way". 

You're putting way too much faith in both the rumors prior to hiring Gase and this Post article, IMHO. The Jets have been a pretty tight-lipped organization since Rex was fired. We really have no idea how their preferences may've moved around. 

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It’s an endorsement. Gase also received Darnold’s endorsement. Gase wasn’t hired based on the endorsements, he was already a top candidate. I think that those are positives.

Everything we do as a franchise needs to start and end with the question of “What’s best for Sam Darnold?” I wanted McCarthy but I’m excited to see Darnold develop under Gase. 

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You're putting way too much faith in both the rumors prior to hiring Gase and this Post article, IMHO. The Jets have been a pretty tight-lipped organization since Rex was fired. We really have no idea how their preferences may've moved around. 


No, we don’t. But if Gase was their # 1 choice they went about it in a very strange way. That’s the best you could say.

And this organization, tight-lipped or not, does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.
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Manning is the most cerebral player in NFL history. He was a coach on the field for 20 years. No ones football opinion is more respected than Peyton Mannings. There is no comparison with any former players because there has only been one Peyton Manning. The fact that Peyton went out on a limb to not only endorse but to campaign for Gase speaks volumes. Frankly no one is more qualified to give an an opinion...

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Manning is the most cerebral player in NFL history. He was a coach on the field for 20 years. No ones football opinion is more respected than Peyton Mannings. There is no comparison with any former players because there has only been one Peyton Manning. The fact that Peyton went out on a limb to not only endorse but to campaign for Gase speaks volumes. Frankly no one is more qualified to give an an opinion...


Actually few are LESS qualified, for the following reasons:

1) He loves Gase because he had his best season under him. But that was when Gase was the OC (Gase’s ideal role), NOT the HC. So his opinion is completely subjective.

2) Peyton was an extremely experienced QB under Gase. Sam Darnold, as much as I like him, is 21 and most definitely NOT Peyton Manning

3) Peyton is retired, and not a coach or GM. Thus, despite his stature as a HOF QB, he’s prone to inflate his own ability to evaluate coaches while having no pressure on him if he makes the wrong call.

4) he wasn’t there in Miami to see Gase operate as HC
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1 hour ago, nico002 said:

Manning is the most cerebral player in NFL history. He was a coach on the field for 20 years. No ones football opinion is more respected than Peyton Mannings. There is no comparison with any former players because there has only been one Peyton Manning. The fact that Peyton went out on a limb to not only endorse but to campaign for Gase speaks volumes. Frankly no one is more qualified to give an an opinion...

Peyton Manning endorsed a guy who is his friend.  That doesn't mean much.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That doesn't mean our owner should have been basing their hiring on what Peyton Manning had to say.  Does Peyton have any stake in the Jets' performance? 

Manning is a former QB.  He's not a coach or a front office exec.  He doesn't care that Gase alienated the non-QB's on his roster.  He only cares that he did well with Gase.

If Gase is so awesome with QB's, he should be the Offensive Coordinator or QB Coach.  Nothing Peyton had to say about Gase should have influenced him being the Head Coach. 

Despicable. 

There's a nuance here that gets ignored. I don't think that any of the reports are stating that Peyton's call to CJ was the sole reason Jets hired Gase.

It's not difference that when you're interviewing for a job and someone you know that is respected by the person doing the hiring gives a glowing recommendation. It's all part of the "pluses" as opposed to the "minuses" for the candidate.

So, while I agree that if Peyton's call was the sole reason that would be despicable, but, based on reading the stories, it looks like the candidates were on par with each other in the Jets mind and Peyton's recommendation helped put Gase over the top. As I stated, that does happen in real life. Heck, when the Jets hired Bowles, they got recommendations from Arians and Parcells, which factored into the hiring decision.

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1 minute ago, detectivekimble said:

Peyton Manning endorsed a guy who is his friend.  That doesn't mean much.

That's completely unfair.

Peyton didn't know Gase until Gase starting working for the Broncos.  They had a professional relationship and had great success.  Along the ways they became friends. It happens a million times in the professional world.

I'm friends with colleagues and bosses and no future employer is going to discount their endorsement of me (and mine of them) because we're friends.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That doesn't mean our owner should have been basing their hiring on what Peyton Manning had to say.  Does Peyton have any stake in the Jets' performance?  

 

the entire league has a stake in keeping the Jets an active franchise, good for 10-12 losses annually. 

the globetrotters need the generals they can't just scrimmage 

the league needs heels Adam Gase plus Gregg Williams, to turn the Jets into a super villian

all the Jets needs is a Sandusky on staff and everyone in America will hate them 

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5 minutes ago, SMC said:

 Heck, when the Jets hired Bowles, they got recommendations from Arians and Parcells, which factored into the hiring decision.

 

that statement is both true and doesn't make anyone feel any better 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

that statement is both true and doesn't make anyone feel any better 

LOL and very true, but we can't act like endorsements are unheard of, lack impact or are not important in the NFL. 

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3 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

Peyton loves this dude.  He was around the Dolphins every now and then because of the relationship.

I'm sure no one is going to complain when Peyton shows up and training camp here and there to give Darnold some tips.

Perhaps he and Darnold will develop a mentor/mentoree relationship.

One can hope.

I remember seeing Peyton at Miami for the Bears game during this past October. Here is a link to the video with Gase mic'd up talking to Peyton.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-micd-up/0ap3000000975407/Mic-d-Up-Gase-talks-with-Manning-Marino-pregame-Week-6

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2 hours ago, slats said:

Now we're gonna take the NY Post as gospel? 

I want them talking to as many people as they can, hear as much as they possibly can, and make the most informed decision. I have no problem with Peyton Manning being a part of that process. 

Neither do I (mostly because look at who else is doing the evaluation). But he shouldn't be what he seems to have been: the final tie-breaker vote. Not when he's personally friendly with one and not the other(s). 

Get his input up front when they interviewed Gase on/about Jan 2nd? Fine. Let him give his heavily-biased vote as a tie-breaker? It doesn't speak well of them. Effectively it makes Manning the process not part of the process.

Whatever. I have no confidence in the other to idiots anyway so why not, lol. Hopefully he's awesome.

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17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the entire league has a stake in keeping the Jets an active franchise, good for 10-12 losses annually. 

btw, beningno demands 9-10 wins on the trot.

would that even be reasonable if you LIKED the hire?

so, what you raise the standard for someone you dont like ? thats wack.

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btw, beningno demands 9-10 wins on the trot.
would that even be reasonable if you LIKED the hire?
so, what you raise the standard for someone you dont like ? thats wack.


Parcells, Herm, Mangini, Rex and Bowles each won 9 or 10 games their first seasons.
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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because he's the least objective voice we could have listened to, and is further proof our owner is completely clueless and easily influenced by people he shouldn't be listening to.

Mike Maccagnan should have had zero say on this HC hire.  Much less Peyton f***ing Manning. 

OK - so According to Jetsfan80 on JN Chris Johnson should definitely NOT be listening to Peyton Manning talking about his former offensive coordinator when considering hiring said coordinator as a head coach. Could you please let us know who you think Johnson should get input from? Or do we just want him to go with his gut?

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Jesus Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, the ghost of Weeb Ewbank,  IBM Watson, and a 3D holographic representation of Abraham Lincoln could have told Chris Johnson to hire Adam Gase and a few chowerheads on here would still bitch about it

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That would make him a horrible coach.  Its hard for geniuses at their craft to teach the game to mere mortals.

It's the same reason Ted Williams was a terrible manager.  He was operating on a whole different level, and couldn't teach hitting to average guys. 

I don't necessarily agree with this.  Williams was a terrible manager, probably because he was a douche.  He was actually fine as a batting coach. Smart players can generally teach the game.  That is why it is mostly point guards and QBs.  It is the ones that rely solely on athletic ability that usually fail. 

I remember reading an old Sports Illustrated piece on Williams, Mattingly and Winfield.  It was around the time Winfield and Mattingly competed for the batting title. Williams and Mattingly were discussing hitting different pitches and Mattingly said that he would ask Winfield about a pitch and he wouldn't even know what it was.  Even when he just smacked it.  That is the guy you don't want as batting instructor.

I looked it up.  It was actually Mattingly, Williams and Boggs.  

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Parcells, Herm, Mangini, Rex and Bowles each won 9 or 10 games their first seasons.

 

Plus remember the oodles of millions there is to spend, and how much of an asset that is.

Far more important than having less cap room because you've got enough veterans worth paying who are already on the roster.

Also there's very often a sudden boost when fresh blood is brought in, even if the players liked the fired coach (e.g. Rex, Bowles). 

Show me 10 wins. Bowles was able to do that and I hear he was the worst HC ever.

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

I don't necessarily agree with this.  Williams was a terrible manager, probably because he was a douche.  He was actually fine as a batting coach. Smart players can generally teach the game.  That is why it is mostly point guards and QBs.  It is the ones that rely solely on athletic ability that usually fail. 

I remember reading an old Sports Illustrated piece on Williams, Mattingly and Winfield.  It was around the time Winfield and Mattingly competed for the batting title. Williams and Mattingly were discussing hitting different pitches and Mattingly said that he would ask Winfield about a pitch and he wouldn't even know what it was.  Even when he just smacked it.  That is the guy you don't want as batting instructor.

I looked it up.  It was actually Mattingly, Williams and Boggs.  

+1 

There's a difference between teaching mechanics and form and such, as opposed to managing a team and other coaches.

If there's anything to be said about Manning, it's that he didn't simply coast on physical talent. People aren't born with proper mechanics, footwork, etc. IIRC he was pretty famous for tirelessly working at his craft. 

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

+1 

There's a difference between teaching mechanics and form and such, as opposed to managing a team and other coaches.

If there's anything to be said about Manning, it's that he didn't simply coast on physical talent. People aren't born with proper mechanics, footwork, etc. IIRC he was pretty famous for tirelessly working at his craft. 

Most of the all time greats are

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18 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

OK - so According to Jetsfan80 on JN Chris Johnson should definitely NOT be listening to Peyton Manning talking about his former offensive coordinator when considering hiring said coordinator as a head coach. Could you please let us know who you think Johnson should get input from? Or do we just want him to go with his gut? 

Ideally, I would like him to hire a VP of Football Operations to make all the HC hiring and personnel decisions.  At least a VP would be invested in the Jets' success.  Barring that, YES, the owner SHOULD be the one making the decision. 

Certainly take in all the information you can get to make the smart hire, but don't let a former player who has no ties to the organization bet the one to make a tiebreaker vote!  Peyton Manning has no incentive to help the Jets and no consequences for anything that goes wrong with this hire.  It wasn't too dissimilar from the last hiring process:  What is Casserly up to right now?  Was he "punished" in any way for the Macc/Bowles hirings going south?  Maybe people won't look to him for advice ever again, but who cares?  He's retired.

Meanwhile, people always say former players, especially great ones, are the some of the best people to ask about things like this.  That's FALSE.  Former players have a difficult time making objective decisions.  The hiring of a HC is just as much a business decision as it is a football decision, and not all former players can see the "forest"; they only see the trees.   And many times, emotions come strongly into play.  How many times have we heard players stand up for bad coaches?  Or complain about great ones (like Parcells and Belichick) for being hardasses?  You can't leave it up to players. 

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36 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Parcells, Herm, Mangini, Rex and Bowles each won 9 or 10 games their first seasons.

 

were those teams coming off consecutive 5 win seasons?

were pepoel outraged and saying if they dont win 9 or 10 games there is no way they sholda been hired..

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18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ideally, I would like him to hire a VP of Football Operations to make all the HC hiring and personnel decisions.  At least a VP would be invested in the Jets' success.  Barring that, YES, the owner SHOULD be the one making the decision. 

Certainly take in all the information you can get to make the smart hire, but don't let a former player who has no ties to the organization bet the one to make a tiebreaker vote!  Peyton Manning has no incentive to help the Jets and no consequences for anything that goes wrong with this hire.  It wasn't too dissimilar from the last hiring process:  What is Casserly up to right now?  Was he "punished" in any way for the Macc/Bowles hirings going south?  Maybe people won't look to him for advice ever again, but who cares?  He's retired.

Meanwhile, people always say former players, especially great ones, are the best to ask about things like this.  That's FALSE.  Former players have a difficult time making objective decisions.  The hiring of a HC is just as much a business decision as it is a football decisions, and not all former players can see the "forest"; they only see the trees.  How many times have we heard coaches stand up for bad coaches?  Or complain about great ones (like Parcells and Belichick)?  You can't leave it up to players. 

What do you think CJ called him up and said - "OK Peyton - we were going to flip a coin but we wanted to give you the tie breaker, sign him or nah?"

Amazing how much people seem to think they know about things they cannot possible know much about.

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3 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

Peyton loves this dude.  He was around the Dolphins every now and then because of the relationship.

I'm sure no one is going to complain when Peyton shows up and training camp here and there to give Darnold some tips.

Perhaps he and Darnold will develop a mentor/mentoree relationship.

One can hope.

Would be awesome if he could get peyton to be our qb coach

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8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What do you think CJ called him up and said - "OK Peyton - we were going to flip a coin but we wanted to give you the tie breaker, sign him or nah?"

Amazing how much people seem to think they know about things they cannot possible know much about. 

This is a message board dude.  Unless you have evidence on your end that Gase was the # 1 guy, I'll continue to trust what all the sources are saying about how it went down. 

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24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This is a message board dude.  Unless you have evidence on your end that Gase was the # 1 guy, I'll continue to trust what all the sources are saying about how it went down. 

Sources are saying Manning advocated for Gase. What words were spoken in that conversation haven't been reported. You act as if Peyton just went in with his pom poms and said you have to hire this guy.

All I'm saying is a) you don't know what was said, b) it was probably more enlightening than what you seem to be giving it credit for. If the content of the conversation helped break the tie, that's a good thing IMO. If it truly was just Peyton Manning waving pom poms for Gase then I agree, it's stupid.

My personal preference is that the Johnsons get as much input from other people before making football decisions as possible. The fact that there's no downfall for Manning giving his opinion is irrelevant.

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3 hours ago, SMC said:

That's completely unfair.

Peyton didn't know Gase until Gase starting working for the Broncos.  They had a professional relationship and had great success.  Along the ways they became friends. It happens a million times in the professional world.

I'm friends with colleagues and bosses and no future employer is going to discount their endorsement of me (and mine of them) because we're friends.

Who cares how or when they became friends?  The point is that Peyton called in a favor for his friend.  It's not the first or last time someone will do that.  

Jim Caldwell is probably like ****, I should have thought of that first.

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