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Who is the best quarterback of all time?

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Who is the best?  

125 members have voted

  1. 1. Vote here

    • Otto Graham
      4
    • Johnny Unitas
      2
    • Bart Starr
      1
    • Joe Montana
      47
    • Brett Favre
      2
    • Peyton Manning
      24
    • Cindy Brady
      33
    • Drew Brees
      4
    • Steve Young
      0
    • Arnie Herber
      2
    • Aaron Rodgers
      5
    • John Elway
      1


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38 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

OMG No! Namath blew many big games by throwing risky passes that became turnovers and pick 6s in games where the Jets were the better team and had the lead in the second half. The only big game he ever played where he put his ego in the back seat was the SB win. 

And he was neither a great leader nor revered by his teammates. Many of his teammates hated his guts because they had a great D and a great running game and Namath was pissing away wins on Sundays by needlessly attempting risky throws after wandering into the stadium 30 minutes before kickoff having not slept the night before.

Those Jet teams were set up to win multiple championships. Namath prevented it from happening.

Namath was more like Bret Favre and Jeff George (a talented thrower of the ball) than the other QBs on that list. 

Lol 😂I said 1 game 

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47 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Joe Montana. This isn't close. 4-0 in Super Bowls. 11 TDs, 0 INT. Nobody brought it in big moments better.

If you say Brady you are either under 40 or an ass like CTM.

How many did he win without the single greatest WR of all time?

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are no Jerry Rice.  

Like I said, Jets Fan bias.  Montana was great, maybe even the 2nd best ever.  He's not the GOAT.

Brady is 27-10 in the playoffs.  That's 37 postseason games played over 15 playoff seasons (of his 19 seasons so far).  He has >10,000 playoff postseason yards.  A 71-31 TD/INT Ratio in the postseason and a career >90 postseason QB Rating. 

He has QB's his team to EIGHT Super Bowls.  Eight.  He won 5 of them.  4 other times he was one game away from the Super Bowl.  In the era of mediocrity and one-year-teams, his Patriots have won the East and been in the postseason and either in the SB or the Championship Game almost every year of his near 20 year career.

Joe only played 13 years.  Brady is already 5 seasons beyond him.

Joe had 11 playoff seasons and 4 Super Bowls to Brady's 15 and 8.

Joe's 41-21 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is amazing.....till you compare it to Brady's 71-31 ratio.

It's just hard to say "the rules, the rules!" (ignoring the effects Free Agnecy has had in keeping good teams together) and have that overcome the vast gulf of exceptional performance and longevity of Brady vs. Montana.

And lets be clear, Brady could get his team to their NINTH Super Bowl this year, and possibly their 6th Super Bowl win. 

And he could play, potentially at a post-season, Super Bowl level, for another couple of years.

Lets say he finishes at 22 years, 9 Super Bowls, 6 Super Bowl wins.  

Joe's 4-0 in Super Bowls over a nine year span is impressive.

Brady's possible 6-3 in Super Bowls over a 20'ish year span is more impressive.

Give the guy his due ffs.  

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I don't care about the lack of rings or playoff record.  Peyton Manning is the greatest QB I've ever seen. 

He was simply unlucky to be drafted by the same franchise John Elway refused to play for, and whose owner is constantly drugged up.

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I mean, there are a billion ways to go with this and there is no right answer. Comparing guys like Otto Graham and Patrick Mahomes is pointless. The game has evolved that you just can't compare these guys. They're playing different games.

That said, there will always be the "rings" crowd who used to favor Montana and now favor Brady.

There will be the physical talent/impressive throws crowd that favor guys like Marino or Rodgers.

There will be the stats people who favor Peyton Manning types.

Personally I've always felt like football is the consummate team game and it's impossible to separate guys like Brady and Montana from their team success -- from their situations, their coaches, their systems, and circumstances. For instance, there's no doubt Brady's resume is better than Peyton's at this point. But if Peyton played all those years for Belichick in New England and Brady played in Indy for Mora/Dungy/Caldwell who has more rings then? I'm pretty confident it's Manning.

I'm young enough that I can't really have strong takes on guys from the mid-90s or earlier. I didn't see them play in their primes. For me it's a three man conversation. Brady, Manning, Rodgers. Brady has the team success, the wins. Manning is the ungodly stats. Rodgers is the best pure talent I think I've seen. I don't think much really separates them overall. It's really more about preference and cultural preference in America tends to favor championship success even in team sports where it's not always indicative of performance. So Brady is obviously going to be the most common answer.

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48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

How many did he win without the single greatest WR of all time?

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are no Jerry Rice.  

Like I said, Jets Fan bias.  Montana was great, maybe even the 2nd best ever.  He's not the GOAT.

Brady is 27-10 in the playoffs.  That's 37 postseason games played over 15 playoff seasons (of his 19 seasons so far).  He has >10,000 playoff postseason yards.  A 71-31 TD/INT Ratio in the postseason and a career >90 postseason QB Rating. 

He has QB's his team to EIGHT Super Bowls.  Eight.  He won 5 of them.  4 other times he was one game away from the Super Bowl.  In the era of mediocrity and one-year-teams, his Patriots have won the East and been in the postseason and either in the SB or the Championship Game almost every year of his near 20 year career.

Joe only played 13 years.  Brady is already 5 seasons beyond him.

Joe had 11 playoff seasons and 4 Super Bowls to Brady's 15 and 8.

Joe's 41-21 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is amazing.....till you compare it to Brady's 71-31 ratio.

It's just hard to say "the rules, the rules!" (ignoring the effects Free Agnecy has had in keeping good teams together) and have that overcome the vast gulf of exceptional performance and longevity of Brady vs. Montana.

And lets be clear, Brady could get his team to their NINTH Super Bowl this year, and possibly their 6th Super Bowl win. 

And he could play, potentially at a post-season, Super Bowl level, for another couple of years.

Lets say he finishes at 22 years, 9 Super Bowls, 6 Super Bowl wins.  

Joe's 4-0 in Super Bowls over a nine year span is impressive.

Brady's possible 6-3 in Super Bowls over a 20'ish year span is more impressive.

Give the guy his due ffs.  

He won two Super Bowls before he ever heard Jerry Rice's name. 

Comparing stats across eras is useless because of the rules changes in the passing game, so that's dumb way to make this comparison. 

Montana did it against tougher competition. Where's the Lawrence Taylor that Brady's had to deal with? Fewer teams, tougher rosters. No free agency, the only way to build a team was through the draft. There was another dynasty happening during Montana's era (Redskins) plus the Giants and Bears. Not to mention the Rams always gave the Niners fits. He had to run that gauntlet just to get to the Super Bowl, where he humiliated two of the best QBs not just of his era, but of all time. 

Losing Super Bowls is a sign of weakness. 

Plus, Joe didn't cheat. 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

How many did he win without the single greatest WR of all time?

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are no Jerry Rice.  

Like I said, Jets Fan bias.  Montana was great, maybe even the 2nd best ever.  He's not the GOAT.

Brady is 27-10 in the playoffs.  That's 37 postseason games played over 15 playoff seasons (of his 19 seasons so far).  He has >10,000 playoff postseason yards.  A 71-31 TD/INT Ratio in the postseason and a career >90 postseason QB Rating. 

He has QB's his team to EIGHT Super Bowls.  Eight.  He won 5 of them.  4 other times he was one game away from the Super Bowl.  In the era of mediocrity and one-year-teams, his Patriots have won the East and been in the postseason and either in the SB or the Championship Game almost every year of his near 20 year career.

Joe only played 13 years.  Brady is already 5 seasons beyond him.

Joe had 11 playoff seasons and 4 Super Bowls to Brady's 15 and 8.

Joe's 41-21 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is amazing.....till you compare it to Brady's 71-31 ratio.

It's just hard to say "the rules, the rules!" (ignoring the effects Free Agnecy has had in keeping good teams together) and have that overcome the vast gulf of exceptional performance and longevity of Brady vs. Montana.

And lets be clear, Brady could get his team to their NINTH Super Bowl this year, and possibly their 6th Super Bowl win. 

And he could play, potentially at a post-season, Super Bowl level, for another couple of years.

Lets say he finishes at 22 years, 9 Super Bowls, 6 Super Bowl wins.  

Joe's 4-0 in Super Bowls over a nine year span is impressive.

Brady's possible 6-3 in Super Bowls over a 20'ish year span is more impressive.

Give the guy his due ffs.  

Don’t look now Pal but Nick Foles is closing in on his second Super Bowl in as many years. Pretty sure he’s winning the next four straight. 

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2 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

He won two Super Bowls before he ever heard Jerry Rice's name. 

Comparing stats across eras is useless because of the rules changes in the passing game, so that's dumb way to make this comparison. 

Montana did it against tougher competition. Where's the Lawrence Taylor that Brady's had to deal with? Fewer teams, tougher rosters. No free agency, the only way to build a team was through the draft. There was another dynasty happening during Montana's era (Redskins) plus the Giants and Bears. Not to mention the Rams always gave the Niners fits. He had to run that gauntlet just to get to the Super Bowl, where he humiliated two of the best QBs not just of his era, but of all time. 

Losing Super Bowls is a sign of weakness. 

Plus, Joe didn't cheat. 

The fact that Steve Young kept right on winning undermines Montana's claim imo... 

Montana is one of my favorite and definitly top 5 but it's hard to argue against Brady.

Also the bolded is dumb. Anything can happen in 1 game, you can't judge solely on the outcome of a single game. FFS brady would've been 17-0 and won another SB if David Tyree doesn't make the helmet catch.

Brady's been to what 12 conference championship games? And he's done that because he's had how many first round byes and hosted how many divisional round games?   The way to get to a lot of SB's is to host playoff games and take WC weekend off and you do that buy winning a lot of regular seasons games and on that metric nobody is close to Brady. He has 20% more wins than Peyton Manning and is still going, and has 50% more wins than Brees.

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3 minutes ago, CTM said:

The fact that Steve Young kept right on winning undermines Montana's claim imo... 

Montana is one of my favorite and definitly top 5 but it's hard to argue against Brady.

Also the bolded is dumb. Anything can happen in 1 game, you can't judge solely on the outcome of a single game. FFS brady would've been 17-0 and won another SB if David Tyree doesn't make the helmet catch.

Brady's been to what 12 conference championship games? And he's done that because he's had how many first round byes and hosted how many divisional round games?   The way to get to a lot of SB's is to host playoff games and take WC weekend off and you do that buy winning a lot of regular seasons games and on that metric nobody is close to Brady. He has 20% more wins than Peyton Manning and is still going, and has 50% more wins than Brees.

Steve Young won 1 Super Bowl 3 years after Montana left. He didn't go to any others. Weak argument. 

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

How did Steve Young do after Joe Montana left?  Clearly, Joe Montana, system QB.

The entire term "system QB" is stupid, frankly.  You either produce and win or you do not.  If you do, you are good.  If you do not, you are not.

"System QB" is just a ineffective attempt to dismiss QB's certain people don't like more than a legitimate evaluation criteria.  Vis a vis, was there some way Brady could have NOT played in the "system" of the team he played for?  No?  Do other QB's not play in systems?  Then I fail to see the relevance.  Did his one-year replacement win the Super Bowl?  No?  Yeah.  This is more a "who gets credit, the QB or the Coach" question, which is so chicken and egg, so Waters and Gilmour, so McCartney and Lennon, it's just not worth engaging in.

Sadly, this question will forever be befouled and worthless on a Jets forum because Jets fans cannot overcome their bias to see things as they are.  There is no question who the best QB of all time is.  Oldsters may still make a play for Montana (he was great!) or Elway (also great) or Marino (stats!), Manning, etc. and complain about rules changes, but there is no real debate on this elsewhere IMO.   

"OLDSTERS"????  Damn your eyes!!!

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31 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, there are a billion ways to go with this and there is no right answer. Comparing guys like Otto Graham and Patrick Mahomes is pointless. The game has evolved that you just can't compare these guys. They're playing different games.

That said, there will always be the "rings" crowd who used to favor Montana and now favor Brady.

There will be the physical talent/impressive throws crowd that favor guys like Marino or Rodgers.

There will be the stats people who favor Peyton Manning types.

Personally I've always felt like football is the consummate team game and it's impossible to separate guys like Brady and Montana from their team success -- from their situations, their coaches, their systems, and circumstances. For instance, there's no doubt Brady's resume is better than Peyton's at this point. But if Peyton played all those years for Belichick in New England and Brady played in Indy for Mora/Dungy/Caldwell who has more rings then? I'm pretty confident it's Manning.

I'm young enough that I can't really have strong takes on guys from the mid-90s or earlier. I didn't see them play in their primes. For me it's a three man conversation. Brady, Manning, Rodgers. Brady has the team success, the wins. Manning is the ungodly stats. Rodgers is the best pure talent I think I've seen. I don't think much really separates them overall. It's really more about preference and cultural preference in America tends to favor championship success even in team sports where it's not always indicative of performance. So Brady is obviously going to be the most common answer.r

Don't have a problem with your points in the post , but,  "Evolved' implies that the game has gotten better.  Sadly it hasn't.  Rule changes, officiating, replay, "interpretations",  shortening the game "Celebratards", and "the modern player", have all gone a long way towards destroying this great game of ours. At time today's version of pro football is virtually unwatchable.  Players are no longer to play defense.  Personal "foul" incidents and calls have gotten way out of control.  Physical play is being taken out of the game.  Touchbacks to the 25 yard line are a joke, designed to take kickoffs {one of the most exciting plays in the game} out of football.  What is a "catch"?  What is a touchdown ? What the "F" is possession? A "football move". Overtime was shortened, making it worse and more unequitable than before.  You get my point.  Something needs to be done. Of course, anything that will be done under "Jolly Rodger" Goodell will surely damage the game even further.

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57 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

He won two Super Bowls before he ever heard Jerry Rice's name. 

Comparing stats across eras is useless because of the rules changes in the passing game, so that's dumb way to make this comparison. 

Montana did it against tougher competition. Where's the Lawrence Taylor that Brady's had to deal with? Fewer teams, tougher rosters. No free agency, the only way to build a team was through the draft. There was another dynasty happening during Montana's era (Redskins) plus the Giants and Bears. Not to mention the Rams always gave the Niners fits. He had to run that gauntlet just to get to the Super Bowl, where he humiliated two of the best QBs not just of his era, but of all time. 

Losing Super Bowls is a sign of weakness. 

Plus, Joe didn't cheat. 

I'm not going to debate it at length, honestly.  There is no point.  Your position is +Rep Farm, mine is -NegRep Farm here, so yeah.

As with all things, it's opinion.  I have nothing but respect for Montana, but most of your argument is, frankly, just silly and wrongheaded, but it's not in a way I will ever convince you.  Citing L.T., lol.  I guess we don't have any good defenders today, right, like Ray Lewis, he sucked.  And besting Peyton Manning every year, psah, he's no Boomer Eisiason or Dave Krieg, after all.  Yeah.

Getting to 8 (maybe soon 9) Super Bowls is weakness because he didn't win all 8 (or 9, or 10, or...), got it.  

Ok, Montana is the bestest!  Brady is gay (am I doing this right?)

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2 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Steve Young won 1 Super Bowl 3 years after Montana left. He didn't go to any others. Weak argument. 

again, SB's aren't the end all be all. Anything can happen in 1 game, the trick is maximizing your chances to get there by winning division titles and grabbing 1 or 2 seeds consistently., Steve Young went to 3 straight Conf championships post Montana, won 4 straight divisional titles and 1 st rd byes, and made the playoffs 7 years in a row.

It's complete Brady bias to suggest that doesn't undermine Montana's claim. And again, I'm a Montana fan! I couldn't stand the Giants and rooted NFC in SB's because it wasn't the Jets from the AFC. Loved watching him and rooted for him every year come playoff time, but Brady has been ridiculous.  You want to credit Belichick, fine, thats a different discussion, but in terms of sustained success and excellence Montana isn't in the same league.

I can also see the guys who are voting for Rodgers or Marino based on the overwhelming physical talent that dwarfs both of these guys, but Brady v Montana comes down to W/L's imo and Brady takes the cake.

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

How many did he win without the single greatest WR of all time?

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are no Jerry Rice.  

Like I said, Jets Fan bias.  Montana was great, maybe even the 2nd best ever.  He's not the GOAT.

Brady is 27-10 in the playoffs.  That's 37 postseason games played over 15 playoff seasons (of his 19 seasons so far).  He has >10,000 playoff postseason yards.  A 71-31 TD/INT Ratio in the postseason and a career >90 postseason QB Rating. 

He has QB's his team to EIGHT Super Bowls.  Eight.  He won 5 of them.  4 other times he was one game away from the Super Bowl.  In the era of mediocrity and one-year-teams, his Patriots have won the East and been in the postseason and either in the SB or the Championship Game almost every year of his near 20 year career.

Joe only played 13 years.  Brady is already 5 seasons beyond him.

Joe had 11 playoff seasons and 4 Super Bowls to Brady's 15 and 8.

Joe's 41-21 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is amazing.....till you compare it to Brady's 71-31 ratio.

It's just hard to say "the rules, the rules!" (ignoring the effects Free Agnecy has had in keeping good teams together) and have that overcome the vast gulf of exceptional performance and longevity of Brady vs. Montana.

And lets be clear, Brady could get his team to their NINTH Super Bowl this year, and possibly their 6th Super Bowl win. 

And he could play, potentially at a post-season, Super Bowl level, for another couple of years.

Lets say he finishes at 22 years, 9 Super Bowls, 6 Super Bowl wins.  

Joe's 4-0 in Super Bowls over a nine year span is impressive.

Brady's possible 6-3 in Super Bowls over a 20'ish year span is more impressive.

Give the guy his due ffs.  

It's impossible to really compare any more.   If Brady played in the 80s, no way he lasts 20 years.   Look at the shot the Giants put on Montana to knock him out in 86, that's not legal now.  

I'm not taking away from Brady.   He didn't play those killer Bears defenses of the 80s.  He didn't go to Philly with that crazy defense and concrete astro turf.  He never took a blind side shot from LT in the Meadowlands, also on concrete astro turf.  It's just a different game, and I will always go with Joe.  He dominated a time where I think it was more difficult to dominate.

Just one guy's worthless opinion.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, chirorob said:

He dominated a time where I think it was more difficult to dominate.

If it's so easy to dominate now, in the no-hits, no-defenses, free-agency-and-salary-cap-era......where are all the other dominating 8 Super Bowl teams and QB's?

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If it is just rings, wouldn't it be Otto Graham?

Played 10 years.   Went to 10 NFL Championship games.   Won 7.

I'm just using this to point out how it is impossible to compare different eras.   Football has changed so much over the years.   Heck, it has changed so much since Brady has been playing it is amazing.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

If it's so easy to dominate now, in the no-hits, no-defenses, free-agency-and-salary-cap-era......where are all the other dominating 8 Super Bowl teams and QB's?

I am not saying Brady is bad.   I am saying, to me, it is Joe, then Brady, then... i don't really know. 

Dominate was the wrong word.   Put up "great numbers that 20 years ago would have been impossible" for a prolonged time.

I'd still argue the best single season passing was Marino in 84.   To set records that hold up for 20 years is amazing.  To beat the passing TD record by 12 is amazing.  Marino's yardage mark is still top 10. 

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2 hours ago, chirorob said:

It's impossible to really compare any more.   If Brady played in the 80s, no way he lasts 20 years.   Look at the shot the Giants put on Montana to knock him out in 86, that's not legal now.  

I'm not taking away from Brady.   He didn't play those killer Bears defenses of the 80s.  He didn't go to Philly with that crazy defense and concrete astro turf.  He never took a blind side shot from LT in the Meadowlands, also on concrete astro turf.  It's just a different game, and I will always go with Joe.  He dominated a time where I think it was more difficult to dominate.

Just one guy's worthless opinion.

 

 

If Brady played in the 80's at 6'4 and 225 he'd be almost big as most linebackers

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Sorry. Namath upsets me because he wasted so much of his potential.   I mean he was no Otto Graham.

True but he goes down in history as a WB that changed the game and gave the AFC credibility. Oh and of course our OINLY SB win. 

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48 minutes ago, CTM said:

again, SB's aren't the end all be all. Anything can happen in 1 game, the trick is maximizing your chances to get there by winning division titles and grabbing 1 or 2 seeds consistently., Steve Young went to 3 straight Conf championships post Montana, won 4 straight divisional titles and 1 st rd byes, and made the playoffs 7 years in a row.

It's complete Brady bias to suggest that doesn't undermine Montana's claim. And again, I'm a Montana fan! I couldn't stand the Giants and rooted NFC in SB's because it wasn't the Jets from the AFC. Loved watching him and rooted for him every year come playoff time, but Brady has been ridiculous.  You want to credit Belichick, fine, thats a different discussion, but in terms of sustained success and excellence Montana isn't in the same league.

I can also see the guys who are voting for Rodgers or Marino based on the overwhelming physical talent that dwarfs both of these guys, but Brady v Montana comes down to W/L's imo and Brady takes the cake.

Matt Cassell won 11 games when Brady got injured, only didnt win the division because of a stupid tie breaker.  Jimmy G was undefeated when Brady was suspended for being Lance Armstrong.  They kept right on winning...

Next.

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3 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Joe Montana. This isn't close. 4-0 in Super Bowls. 11 TDs, 0 INT. Nobody brought it in big moments better.

If you say Brady you are either under 40 or an ass like CTM.

4-0 in super bowls but remember how much better the NFC was in those days, the real SB was usually the NFC championship.

Montana lost playoff games leading Os to 3 points twice, the lowest amount brady ever led an O to in a playoff loss was 13.

Brady is 14-3 in WC div rds, Montana 9-4

Brady is 8-4 in conf championship games, Montana 4-3

Brady 19-3 at home in playoffs, Montana 10-2

Brady 3-4 on road in postseason, Montana 2-5

Montana always had more talent around him than Brady, Montana is a worthy #2 but he's not close to Brady.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Matt Cassell won 11 games when Brady got injured, only didnt win the division because of a stupid tie breaker.  Jimmy G was undefeated when Brady was suspended for being Lance Armstrong.  They kept right on winning...

Next.

Haha not having that debate again but

2007 =  16-0 against one of hardest schedule, #1 seed

2008 = 11-5 against one of easiest schedule, no playoffs

These 2 seasons have as much alike as Pac and a trim body

 

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12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Matt Cassell won 11 games when Brady got injured, only didnt win the division because of a stupid tie breaker.  Jimmy G was undefeated when Brady was suspended for being Lance Armstrong.  They kept right on winning...

Next.

They lost 5 more games in 2008 than 2007.  That is a huge number.  They did it while missing the playoffs with a QB who would make the playoffs with another team.

Jimmy G has proven to be a good QB(he's 8-2 as a starter), he was 2-0 when Brady was suspended defeating 2 struggling teams at the time.

Bill Belichick now considered the greatest HC of all time has 5 losing seasons in 7 full without Brady, just 1 WC app.  A losing record in both Cleveland and NE without Brady

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14 minutes ago, CTM said:

Haha not having that debate again but

2007 =  16-0 against one of hardest schedule, #1 seed

2008 = 11-5 against one of easiest schedule, no playoffs

These 2 seasons have as much alike as Pac and a trim body

 

So, they didnt win 11 games in 2008 and Jimmy G wasnt undefeated? 

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12 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

They lost 5 more games in 2008 than 2007.  That is a huge number.  They did it while missing the playoffs with a QB who would make the playoffs with another team.

Jimmy G has proven to be a good QB(he's 8-2 as a starter), he was 2-0 when Brady was suspended defeating 2 struggling teams at the time.

Bill Belichick now considered the greatest HC of all time has 5 losing seasons in 7 full without Brady, just 1 WC app.  A losing record in both Cleveland and NE without Brady

So, they didnt win 11 games in 2008 and Jimmy G wasnt undefeated? 

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

So, they didnt win 11 games in 2008 and Jimmy G wasnt undefeated? 

A whopping 2-0 against struggling teams with a good QB, losing 5 more games than the year before and missing the playoffs with a playoff QB.

Very impressive

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