Who is the best quarterback of all time?

[Sonny Werblin]

16 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Montana's greatest asset was his ability to perform under pressure.

I believe Joe Montana would respond: "What pressure?"

[nyjunc]

36 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Being the Devil's advocate. Is he doing more with less, or is he a system QB? Seriously, even when he has not played due to injury, his replacement has been just about as good as he is.

Case in point. The Brady replacement with the largest one season sample is Matt Cassel in 2008 who led the team to an 11-5 record (officially it is 10-5 but he entered game 1 after Brady's injury with the game at 0-0, so that his Cassel's win).

Cassel's stats: 327/516;  63.4%;  3693 yards;  21 td;  11 int. Pats had 8th scoring O and 5th O in yards.

In 2009 Brady led the Pats to a 10-6 record. One less win than Cassell.

Brady's stats: 371/565;  65.7%; 4398; 28 td; 13 int.  Pats had 6th scoring O and 3rd O in yards.

Cassel had a slightly better record. Brady had better stats, but not by a very wide margin.

Cassel left the Pats and proved to be a rather pedestrian QB leading his teams to a record of 26-40 and completing 57.7% of his passes.

So, there you have it. Tom Brady is a system QB.  

 

The comparison is 2007  to 2008 not 2008 to 2009 as moss was in decline and Brady was coming off a major injury.  do 2007 to 2008 then get back to me.

NE lost FIVE more games in 2008 than 2007 with a much easier schedule and missed the playoffs.  Cassell would lead KC to a division title 2 yrs later.

Bill Belichick is well under .500 in 7 seasons without Brady, has 5 losing seasons and just over WC app.

Brady is the best of all time, it's not close

[nyjunc]

54 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Montana's greatest asset was his ability to perform under pressure.

That is what separates guys like Montana and Brady from guys like Peyton and favre.  

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Being the Devil's advocate. Is he doing more with less, or is he a system QB? Seriously, even when he has not played due to injury, his replacement has been just about as good as he is.

Case in point. The Brady replacement with the largest one season sample is Matt Cassel in 2008 who led the team to an 11-5 record (officially it is 10-5 but he entered game 1 after Brady's injury with the game at 0-0, so that his Cassel's win).

Cassel's stats: 327/516;  63.4%;  3693 yards;  21 td;  11 int. Pats had 8th scoring O and 5th O in yards.

In 2009 Brady led the Pats to a 10-6 record. One less win than Cassell.

Brady's stats: 371/565;  65.7%; 4398; 28 td; 13 int.  Pats had 6th scoring O and 3rd O in yards.

Cassel had a slightly better record. Brady had better stats, but not by a very wide margin.

Cassel left the Pats and proved to be a rather pedestrian QB leading his teams to a record of 26-40 and completing 57.7% of his passes.

So, there you have it. Tom Brady is a system QB.  

 

How did Steve Young do after Joe Montana left?  Clearly, Joe Montana, system QB.

The entire term "system QB" is stupid, frankly.  You either produce and win or you do not.  If you do, you are good.  If you do not, you are not.

"System QB" is just a ineffective attempt to dismiss QB's certain people don't like more than a legitimate evaluation criteria.  Vis a vis, was there some way Brady could have NOT played in the "system" of the team he played for?  No?  Do other QB's not play in systems?  Then I fail to see the relevance.  Did his one-year replacement win the Super Bowl?  No?  Yeah.  This is more a "who gets credit, the QB or the Coach" question, which is so chicken and egg, so Waters and Gilmour, so McCartney and Lennon, it's just not worth engaging in.

Sadly, this question will forever be befouled and worthless on a Jets forum because Jets fans cannot overcome their bias to see things as they are.  There is no question who the best QB of all time is.  Oldsters may still make a play for Montana (he was great!) or Elway (also great) or Marino (stats!), Manning, etc. and complain about rules changes, but there is no real debate on this elsewhere IMO.   

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Joe Namath had the greatest natural ability I've ever seen.  Combination of injuries and bad teams hurt him.  Also can't compare QBs from that era to today it's such a different game.  Much easier to have great stats in today's game.

Will say if in some crazy world you trade Namath for Bradshaw in 1971, He might have had 5 or 6 more rings. early 1970s Jets were usually terrible and Namath paid the price for a bad OL. And consider they traded away a HoF running back, Riggins,  for nothing. 

[BigO]

15 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

For me it's Bert Jones.

Da man!

[BigO]

4 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Will say if in some crazy world you trade Namath for Bradshaw in 1971, He might have had 5 or 6 more rings. early 1970s Jets were usually terrible and Namath paid the price for a bad OL. And consider they traded away a HoF running back, Riggins,  for nothing. 

Give me one QB in his prime to win a big game,  healthy (and sober), I’ll take Namath hands down over any QB. Namath had incredible vision, could move in the pocket, could make any throw, was a great leader and revered by his teammates, called his own plays, had wheels once upon a time, and of course, had a rocket arm and probably the quickest release ever. 

[PCP63]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

How did Steve Young do after Joe Montana left?  Clearly, Joe Montana, system QB.

The entire term "system QB" is stupid, frankly.  You either produce and win or you do not.  If you do, you are good.  If you do not, you are not.

"System QB" is just a ineffective attempt to dismiss QB's certain people don't like more than a legitimate evaluation criteria.  Vis a vis, was there some way Brady could have NOT played in the "system" of the team he played for?  No?  Do other QB's not play in systems?  Then I fail to see the relevance.  Did his one-year replacement win the Super Bowl?  No?  Yeah.  This is more a "who gets credit, the QB or the Coach" question, which is so chicken and egg, so Waters and Gilmour, so McCartney and Lennon, it's just not worth engaging in.

Sadly, this question will forever be befouled and worthless on a Jets forum because Jets fans cannot overcome their bias to see things as they are.  There is no question who the best QB of all time is.  Oldsters may still make a play for Montana (he was great!) or Elway (also great) or Marino (stats!), Manning, etc. and complain about rules changes, but there is no real debate on this elsewhere IMO.   

C'mon, it's Gilmour... 

 

As for this thread, how is it even a discussion? I hate the Pats, but saying anyone other than Brady is just being dishonest. 

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Like me BB prefers Bert Jones.

https://nesn.com/2016/11/if-bill-belichick-could-choose-one-quarterback-to-lead-his-team-he-would-pick/

Because Belichick has been beefing with Brady last couple years and he’s sick of everyone knowing he owes his success to Brady

[Sonny Werblin]

12 minutes ago, BigO said:

Give me one QB in his prime to win a big game,  healthy (and sober), I’ll take Namath hands down over any QB. Namath had incredible vision, could move in the pocket, could make any throw, was a great leader and revered by his teammates, called his own plays, had wheels once upon a time, and of course, had a rocket arm and probably the quickest release ever. 

OMG No! Namath blew many big games by throwing risky passes that became turnovers and pick 6s in games where the Jets were the better team and had the lead in the second half. The only big game he ever played where he put his ego in the back seat was the SB win. 

And he was neither a great leader nor revered by his teammates. Many of his teammates hated his guts because they had a great D and a great running game and Namath was pissing away wins on Sundays by needlessly attempting risky throws after wandering into the stadium 30 minutes before kickoff having not slept the night before.

Those Jet teams were set up to win multiple championships. Namath prevented it from happening.

Namath was more like Bret Favre and Jeff George (a talented thrower of the ball) than the other QBs on that list. 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

The comparison is 2007  to 2008 not 2008 to 2009 as moss was in decline and Brady was coming off a major injury.  do 2007 to 2008 then get back to me.

NE lost FIVE more games in 2008 than 2007 with a much easier schedule and missed the playoffs.  Cassell would lead KC to a division title 2 yrs later.

Bill Belichick is well under .500 in 7 seasons without Brady, has 5 losing seasons and just over WC app.

Brady is the best of all time, it's not close

Cassell had a great OL, Moss, Welker and Mangini playing the preven on almost every passing down.  There was no “system”

[Klecko73isGod]

Joe Montana. This isn't close. 4-0 in Super Bowls. 11 TDs, 0 INT. Nobody brought it in big moments better.

If you say Brady you are either under 40 or an ass like CTM.

[greenwichjetfan]

Some of these guys are too old for me, but my thoughts:

John Elway should be on here. Tom Brady is the winningest of all time. Aaron Rodgers is the most talented of all time. Joe Montana is the most clutch of all time. Drew Brees is the most accurate of all time. Brett Favre is the most fun player to watch of all time. Steve Young and I share a hometown, and his mom is extremely sweet, and until ARod came along, had the highest career rating of all time. Dan Marino is the best passer of all time.

Loved watching all of these guys play (except the only guy on here who was formally reprimanded for cheating), but the best QB of all time belongs to one guy: Peyton.

He’s the only QB who has multiple rings, all of the records, all of the off-field work ethic, and the only QB who can definitively be described as system-proof.

- He broke the biggest single season passing records. Twice. And accomplished this under two different coaching staffs on two different franchises

- He took 4 different coaches to a super bowl including the likes of Jim freaking Caldwell and John freaking Fox. 

- He is the only player to ever win a super bowl as a starting QB for 2 franchises.

- He didn’t have the benefit of playing under a transcendent coach like Bill Walsh or Bill Belichick.

- He is the only QB to take the full weight of his contract and still go to/win multiple SBs. This is a huge deal that no one talks about. Brady circumvents the cap which allows his team to acquire/keep talent across the team. Aside from him, no one has even reached a second Super Bowl after they got their huge contract. Not Brees, not Big Ben, not Aaron Rodgers. Their teams become strapped. Peyton continually took the most money of any QB in the league, and still reached 4 Super Bowls. That’s nutty.

[Apache 51]

Many greats in their own way and time the played, Unitas and Montana come to mind depends on definition. Brady has played in the weakest division his entire career, 1 and 4 against the NFCE should be 0-4 if it weren't for Mcpuke.

 

[DonCorleone]

15 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Montana 

There’s no one I would trust more to march my team 80+ yards down field, down by 4, with 2 minutes left.

Not Brady. Not Elway. Nobody.

Joe Cool

Imagine if he played under today's rules. His longevity would have been greatly enhanced. I never saw a more calm, deadly qb. 

[section314]

16 hours ago, King P said:

Marino. Ring or no ring, he's the most skilled QB ever IMO.

And Peyton is 1B for me

Absolutely. Best I've ever seen.

[section314]

16 hours ago, King P said:

Marino. Ring or no ring, he's the most skilled QB ever IMO.

And Peyton is 1B for me

Absolutely. Best I've ever seen.

[section314]

16 hours ago, King P said:

Marino. Ring or no ring, he's the most skilled QB ever IMO.

And Peyton is 1B for me

Absolutely. Best I've ever seen.

[section314]

16 hours ago, King P said:

Marino. Ring or no ring, he's the most skilled QB ever IMO.

And Peyton is 1B for me

Absolutely. Best I've ever seen.

[section314]

16 hours ago, King P said:

Marino. Ring or no ring, he's the most skilled QB ever IMO.

And Peyton is 1B for me

Absolutely. Best I've ever seen.

[section314]

16 hours ago, King P said:

Marino. Ring or no ring, he's the most skilled QB ever IMO.

And Peyton is 1B for me

Absolutely. Best I've ever seen.

[BigO]

38 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

OMG No! Namath blew many big games by throwing risky passes that became turnovers and pick 6s in games where the Jets were the better team and had the lead in the second half. The only big game he ever played where he put his ego in the back seat was the SB win. 

And he was neither a great leader nor revered by his teammates. Many of his teammates hated his guts because they had a great D and a great running game and Namath was pissing away wins on Sundays by needlessly attempting risky throws after wandering into the stadium 30 minutes before kickoff having not slept the night before.

Those Jet teams were set up to win multiple championships. Namath prevented it from happening.

Namath was more like Bret Favre and Jeff George (a talented thrower of the ball) than the other QBs on that list. 

Lol ?I said 1 game 

[JustInFudge]

Rodgers

Montana

Marino

Elway

Manning

 

Tom Brady is Lance Armstrong

 

 

[Warfish]

47 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Joe Montana. This isn't close. 4-0 in Super Bowls. 11 TDs, 0 INT. Nobody brought it in big moments better.

If you say Brady you are either under 40 or an ass like CTM.

How many did he win without the single greatest WR of all time?

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are no Jerry Rice.  

Like I said, Jets Fan bias.  Montana was great, maybe even the 2nd best ever.  He's not the GOAT.

Brady is 27-10 in the playoffs.  That's 37 postseason games played over 15 playoff seasons (of his 19 seasons so far).  He has >10,000 playoff postseason yards.  A 71-31 TD/INT Ratio in the postseason and a career >90 postseason QB Rating. 

He has QB's his team to EIGHT Super Bowls.  Eight.  He won 5 of them.  4 other times he was one game away from the Super Bowl.  In the era of mediocrity and one-year-teams, his Patriots have won the East and been in the postseason and either in the SB or the Championship Game almost every year of his near 20 year career.

Joe only played 13 years.  Brady is already 5 seasons beyond him.

Joe had 11 playoff seasons and 4 Super Bowls to Brady's 15 and 8.

Joe's 41-21 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is amazing.....till you compare it to Brady's 71-31 ratio.

It's just hard to say "the rules, the rules!" (ignoring the effects Free Agnecy has had in keeping good teams together) and have that overcome the vast gulf of exceptional performance and longevity of Brady vs. Montana.

And lets be clear, Brady could get his team to their NINTH Super Bowl this year, and possibly their 6th Super Bowl win. 

And he could play, potentially at a post-season, Super Bowl level, for another couple of years.

Lets say he finishes at 22 years, 9 Super Bowls, 6 Super Bowl wins.  

Joe's 4-0 in Super Bowls over a nine year span is impressive.

Brady's possible 6-3 in Super Bowls over a 20'ish year span is more impressive.

Give the guy his due ffs.  

[Sonny Werblin]

17 minutes ago, BigO said:

Lol ?I said 1 game 

Sorry. Namath upsets me because he wasted so much of his potential.   I mean he was no Otto Graham.

[Jetsfan80]

I don't care about the lack of rings or playoff record.  Peyton Manning is the greatest QB I've ever seen. 

He was simply unlucky to be drafted by the same franchise John Elway refused to play for, and whose owner is constantly drugged up.

[UntouchableCrew]

I mean, there are a billion ways to go with this and there is no right answer. Comparing guys like Otto Graham and Patrick Mahomes is pointless. The game has evolved that you just can't compare these guys. They're playing different games.

That said, there will always be the "rings" crowd who used to favor Montana and now favor Brady.

There will be the physical talent/impressive throws crowd that favor guys like Marino or Rodgers.

There will be the stats people who favor Peyton Manning types.

Personally I've always felt like football is the consummate team game and it's impossible to separate guys like Brady and Montana from their team success -- from their situations, their coaches, their systems, and circumstances. For instance, there's no doubt Brady's resume is better than Peyton's at this point. But if Peyton played all those years for Belichick in New England and Brady played in Indy for Mora/Dungy/Caldwell who has more rings then? I'm pretty confident it's Manning.

I'm young enough that I can't really have strong takes on guys from the mid-90s or earlier. I didn't see them play in their primes. For me it's a three man conversation. Brady, Manning, Rodgers. Brady has the team success, the wins. Manning is the ungodly stats. Rodgers is the best pure talent I think I've seen. I don't think much really separates them overall. It's really more about preference and cultural preference in America tends to favor championship success even in team sports where it's not always indicative of performance. So Brady is obviously going to be the most common answer.

[Klecko73isGod]

48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

How many did he win without the single greatest WR of all time?

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are no Jerry Rice.  

Like I said, Jets Fan bias.  Montana was great, maybe even the 2nd best ever.  He's not the GOAT.

Brady is 27-10 in the playoffs.  That's 37 postseason games played over 15 playoff seasons (of his 19 seasons so far).  He has >10,000 playoff postseason yards.  A 71-31 TD/INT Ratio in the postseason and a career >90 postseason QB Rating. 

He has QB's his team to EIGHT Super Bowls.  Eight.  He won 5 of them.  4 other times he was one game away from the Super Bowl.  In the era of mediocrity and one-year-teams, his Patriots have won the East and been in the postseason and either in the SB or the Championship Game almost every year of his near 20 year career.

Joe only played 13 years.  Brady is already 5 seasons beyond him.

Joe had 11 playoff seasons and 4 Super Bowls to Brady's 15 and 8.

Joe's 41-21 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is amazing.....till you compare it to Brady's 71-31 ratio.

It's just hard to say "the rules, the rules!" (ignoring the effects Free Agnecy has had in keeping good teams together) and have that overcome the vast gulf of exceptional performance and longevity of Brady vs. Montana.

And lets be clear, Brady could get his team to their NINTH Super Bowl this year, and possibly their 6th Super Bowl win. 

And he could play, potentially at a post-season, Super Bowl level, for another couple of years.

Lets say he finishes at 22 years, 9 Super Bowls, 6 Super Bowl wins.  

Joe's 4-0 in Super Bowls over a nine year span is impressive.

Brady's possible 6-3 in Super Bowls over a 20'ish year span is more impressive.

Give the guy his due ffs.  

He won two Super Bowls before he ever heard Jerry Rice's name. 

Comparing stats across eras is useless because of the rules changes in the passing game, so that's dumb way to make this comparison. 

Montana did it against tougher competition. Where's the Lawrence Taylor that Brady's had to deal with? Fewer teams, tougher rosters. No free agency, the only way to build a team was through the draft. There was another dynasty happening during Montana's era (Redskins) plus the Giants and Bears. Not to mention the Rams always gave the Niners fits. He had to run that gauntlet just to get to the Super Bowl, where he humiliated two of the best QBs not just of his era, but of all time. 

Losing Super Bowls is a sign of weakness. 

Plus, Joe didn't cheat. 

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

How many did he win without the single greatest WR of all time?

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are no Jerry Rice.  

Like I said, Jets Fan bias.  Montana was great, maybe even the 2nd best ever.  He's not the GOAT.

Brady is 27-10 in the playoffs.  That's 37 postseason games played over 15 playoff seasons (of his 19 seasons so far).  He has >10,000 playoff postseason yards.  A 71-31 TD/INT Ratio in the postseason and a career >90 postseason QB Rating. 

He has QB's his team to EIGHT Super Bowls.  Eight.  He won 5 of them.  4 other times he was one game away from the Super Bowl.  In the era of mediocrity and one-year-teams, his Patriots have won the East and been in the postseason and either in the SB or the Championship Game almost every year of his near 20 year career.

Joe only played 13 years.  Brady is already 5 seasons beyond him.

Joe had 11 playoff seasons and 4 Super Bowls to Brady's 15 and 8.

Joe's 41-21 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is amazing.....till you compare it to Brady's 71-31 ratio.

It's just hard to say "the rules, the rules!" (ignoring the effects Free Agnecy has had in keeping good teams together) and have that overcome the vast gulf of exceptional performance and longevity of Brady vs. Montana.

And lets be clear, Brady could get his team to their NINTH Super Bowl this year, and possibly their 6th Super Bowl win. 

And he could play, potentially at a post-season, Super Bowl level, for another couple of years.

Lets say he finishes at 22 years, 9 Super Bowls, 6 Super Bowl wins.  

Joe's 4-0 in Super Bowls over a nine year span is impressive.

Brady's possible 6-3 in Super Bowls over a 20'ish year span is more impressive.

Give the guy his due ffs.  

Don’t look now Pal but Nick Foles is closing in on his second Super Bowl in as many years. Pretty sure he’s winning the next four straight. 

[CTM]

2 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

He won two Super Bowls before he ever heard Jerry Rice's name. 

Comparing stats across eras is useless because of the rules changes in the passing game, so that's dumb way to make this comparison. 

Montana did it against tougher competition. Where's the Lawrence Taylor that Brady's had to deal with? Fewer teams, tougher rosters. No free agency, the only way to build a team was through the draft. There was another dynasty happening during Montana's era (Redskins) plus the Giants and Bears. Not to mention the Rams always gave the Niners fits. He had to run that gauntlet just to get to the Super Bowl, where he humiliated two of the best QBs not just of his era, but of all time. 

Losing Super Bowls is a sign of weakness. 

Plus, Joe didn't cheat. 

The fact that Steve Young kept right on winning undermines Montana's claim imo... 

Montana is one of my favorite and definitly top 5 but it's hard to argue against Brady.

Also the bolded is dumb. Anything can happen in 1 game, you can't judge solely on the outcome of a single game. FFS brady would've been 17-0 and won another SB if David Tyree doesn't make the helmet catch.

Brady's been to what 12 conference championship games? And he's done that because he's had how many first round byes and hosted how many divisional round games?   The way to get to a lot of SB's is to host playoff games and take WC weekend off and you do that buy winning a lot of regular seasons games and on that metric nobody is close to Brady. He has 20% more wins than Peyton Manning and is still going, and has 50% more wins than Brees.

[kelly]

[Klecko73isGod]

3 minutes ago, CTM said:

The fact that Steve Young kept right on winning undermines Montana's claim imo... 

Montana is one of my favorite and definitly top 5 but it's hard to argue against Brady.

Also the bolded is dumb. Anything can happen in 1 game, you can't judge solely on the outcome of a single game. FFS brady would've been 17-0 and won another SB if David Tyree doesn't make the helmet catch.

Brady's been to what 12 conference championship games? And he's done that because he's had how many first round byes and hosted how many divisional round games?   The way to get to a lot of SB's is to host playoff games and take WC weekend off and you do that buy winning a lot of regular seasons games and on that metric nobody is close to Brady. He has 20% more wins than Peyton Manning and is still going, and has 50% more wins than Brees.

Steve Young won 1 Super Bowl 3 years after Montana left. He didn't go to any others. Weak argument. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

How did Steve Young do after Joe Montana left?  Clearly, Joe Montana, system QB.

The entire term "system QB" is stupid, frankly.  You either produce and win or you do not.  If you do, you are good.  If you do not, you are not.

"System QB" is just a ineffective attempt to dismiss QB's certain people don't like more than a legitimate evaluation criteria.  Vis a vis, was there some way Brady could have NOT played in the "system" of the team he played for?  No?  Do other QB's not play in systems?  Then I fail to see the relevance.  Did his one-year replacement win the Super Bowl?  No?  Yeah.  This is more a "who gets credit, the QB or the Coach" question, which is so chicken and egg, so Waters and Gilmour, so McCartney and Lennon, it's just not worth engaging in.

Sadly, this question will forever be befouled and worthless on a Jets forum because Jets fans cannot overcome their bias to see things as they are.  There is no question who the best QB of all time is.  Oldsters may still make a play for Montana (he was great!) or Elway (also great) or Marino (stats!), Manning, etc. and complain about rules changes, but there is no real debate on this elsewhere IMO.   

"OLDSTERS"????  Damn your eyes!!!

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

31 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, there are a billion ways to go with this and there is no right answer. Comparing guys like Otto Graham and Patrick Mahomes is pointless. The game has evolved that you just can't compare these guys. They're playing different games.

That said, there will always be the "rings" crowd who used to favor Montana and now favor Brady.

There will be the physical talent/impressive throws crowd that favor guys like Marino or Rodgers.

There will be the stats people who favor Peyton Manning types.

Personally I've always felt like football is the consummate team game and it's impossible to separate guys like Brady and Montana from their team success -- from their situations, their coaches, their systems, and circumstances. For instance, there's no doubt Brady's resume is better than Peyton's at this point. But if Peyton played all those years for Belichick in New England and Brady played in Indy for Mora/Dungy/Caldwell who has more rings then? I'm pretty confident it's Manning.

I'm young enough that I can't really have strong takes on guys from the mid-90s or earlier. I didn't see them play in their primes. For me it's a three man conversation. Brady, Manning, Rodgers. Brady has the team success, the wins. Manning is the ungodly stats. Rodgers is the best pure talent I think I've seen. I don't think much really separates them overall. It's really more about preference and cultural preference in America tends to favor championship success even in team sports where it's not always indicative of performance. So Brady is obviously going to be the most common answer.r

Don't have a problem with your points in the post , but,  "Evolved' implies that the game has gotten better.  Sadly it hasn't.  Rule changes, officiating, replay, "interpretations",  shortening the game "Celebratards", and "the modern player", have all gone a long way towards destroying this great game of ours. At time today's version of pro football is virtually unwatchable.  Players are no longer to play defense.  Personal "foul" incidents and calls have gotten way out of control.  Physical play is being taken out of the game.  Touchbacks to the 25 yard line are a joke, designed to take kickoffs {one of the most exciting plays in the game} out of football.  What is a "catch"?  What is a touchdown ? What the "F" is possession? A "football move". Overtime was shortened, making it worse and more unequitable than before.  You get my point.  Something needs to be done. Of course, anything that will be done under "Jolly Rodger" Goodell will surely damage the game even further.

[Warfish]

57 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

He won two Super Bowls before he ever heard Jerry Rice's name. 

Comparing stats across eras is useless because of the rules changes in the passing game, so that's dumb way to make this comparison. 

Montana did it against tougher competition. Where's the Lawrence Taylor that Brady's had to deal with? Fewer teams, tougher rosters. No free agency, the only way to build a team was through the draft. There was another dynasty happening during Montana's era (Redskins) plus the Giants and Bears. Not to mention the Rams always gave the Niners fits. He had to run that gauntlet just to get to the Super Bowl, where he humiliated two of the best QBs not just of his era, but of all time. 

Losing Super Bowls is a sign of weakness. 

Plus, Joe didn't cheat. 

I'm not going to debate it at length, honestly.  There is no point.  Your position is +Rep Farm, mine is -NegRep Farm here, so yeah.

As with all things, it's opinion.  I have nothing but respect for Montana, but most of your argument is, frankly, just silly and wrongheaded, but it's not in a way I will ever convince you.  Citing L.T., lol.  I guess we don't have any good defenders today, right, like Ray Lewis, he sucked.  And besting Peyton Manning every year, psah, he's no Boomer Eisiason or Dave Krieg, after all.  Yeah.

Getting to 8 (maybe soon 9) Super Bowls is weakness because he didn't win all 8 (or 9, or 10, or...), got it.  

Ok, Montana is the bestest!  Brady is gay (am I doing this right?)