Jets’ pursuit of former Packers coach Mike McCarthy collapsed over staffing issues

[long suffering jets fan]

11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

This is nothing but stuff you're making up, and it's complete nonsense. But its your movie, you get to write the ending!

The article is clear.  The Jets, (in other words Johnson) wanted to know (in other words dictate) who was going to be on Mcarthy's staff.  If that's not micro-management, I don't know what is.  You would think a coach of Mcarthy's experience would have the latitude to choose his own staff without the owner meddling.  The article also said they did the same with Rhule. Need more evidence?  Look at the reporting structure, they don't trust the GM to manage the coach.  The Johnsons appear to be meddling owners to the nth degree.  Let your people do their job without meddling damn it!  Let them pick the coaches/players they need to be successful, this is management 101.

[Integrity28]

7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Not mad and not the strawman.  

Made a simple point way back and you had to play the dick.  No problem. 

Not mad. Personal attack. 

6 hours ago, CTM said:

Whose playing?

Nicely done.

[nico002]

8 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

The article is clear.  The Jets, (in other words Johnson) wanted to know (in other words dictate) who was going to be on Mcarthy's staff.  If that's not micro-management, I don't know what is.  You would think a coach of Mcarthy's experience would have the latitude to choose his own staff without the owner meddling.  The article also said they did the same with Rhule. Need more evidence?  Look at the reporting structure, they don't trust the GM to manage the coach.  The Johnsons appear to be meddling owners to the nth degree.  Let your people do their job without meddling damn it!  Let them pick the coaches/players they need to be successful, this is management 101.

I don’t agree at all. You don’t pay a coach 9million is McAdoo and Philbin are their top choices for coordinators. You don’t give the job to an inexperienced college coach if he can’t put an experienced staff around himself. Being concerned about the staff is a great sign that the Jets want to build a successful organization. Gase is building his own staff- but he seems to actually have a logical plan.

[Butterfield]

1 minute ago, nico002 said:

I don’t agree at all. You don’t pay a coach 9million is McAdoo and Philbin are their top choices for coordinators. You don’t give the job to an inexperienced college coach if he can’t put an experienced staff around himself. Being concerned about the staff is a great sign that the Jets want to build a successful organization. Gase is building his own staff- but he seems to actually have a logical plan.

Yep, bring all his cronies who helped him fail at his last job.  Yay.

[nico002]

3 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

Yep, bring all his cronies who helped him fail at his last job.  Yay.

Fail is a relative term- how many games should he have won in Miami? Greg Williams wasn’t in his staff ... 

[CanadaSteve]

20 hours ago, Untouchable said:

 McCarthy has a track record of stubbornness and failure to learn from past mistakes.

 

He should fit right in with the JETS then!

[varjet]

25 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

 Let them pick the coaches/players they need to be successful, this is management 101.

The Johnsons are always fighting the last battle.  Never won the war. 

My guess is that they gave Todd complete authority to pick his staff.  They got the worst staff in the NFL and could not even fire Todd mid-season because there was no one to replace him in house.  

I don’t really blame the Jets, if applied in reason. Pettine is staying in GB and probably would not have wanted to come back here. 

I think it reasonable to ask to see a credible list of assistants.  I wonder whether Rhule could have done that.  McCarthy should have been able to play along.  If Gase gets Williams, this looks better.  

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, jack48 said:

I think the Jets refused him.  The did not reject him personally. They did not want a replica of a Bowles coaching staff.  They learned how inportant coaching staffs are.  Jeremy Bates and Kacy Rodgers.  That is all I have to say.

We're sayin the same thing. I was responding to a posy that said McCarthy refused the Jets job. He didn't he actually lobbied for it even when the Jets were long gone dealing with Rhule and Gase but the time that Tweet came out that he was only interested in the Jets. 

I wanted MM to be clear, but the Jets turned both he and Rhule down. Not the other way around. 

[long suffering jets fan]

29 minutes ago, varjet said:

The Johnsons are always fighting the last battle.  Never won the war. 

My guess is that they gave Todd complete authority to pick his staff.  They got the worst staff in the NFL and could not even fire Todd mid-season because there was no one to replace him in house.  

I don’t really blame the Jets, if applied in reason. Pettine is staying in GB and probably would not have wanted to come back here. 

I think it reasonable to ask to see a credible list of assistants.  I wonder whether Rhule could have done that.  McCarthy should have been able to play along.  If Gase gets Williams, this looks better.  

Agreed with fighting last war comment.  Rex to Bowles was case in point.  One extreme to the other.  Rex was brash, so let's hire a doormat who inspires no one.

i think it's reasonable to ask for list of candidates and ask about decision making rationale, especially after the effects of Bowles being untethered.  But when coaches are turned off by that one element, that tells me that perhaps the Jets are being too intrusive.

[GREENBEAN]

21 minutes ago, varjet said:

The Johnsons are always fighting the last battle.  Never won the war. 

 My guess is that they gave Todd complete authority to pick his staff.  They got the worst staff in the NFL and could not even fire Todd mid-season because there was no one to replace him in house.  

I don’t really blame the Jets, if applied in reason. Pettine is staying in GB and probably would not have wanted to come back here. 

I think it reasonable to ask to see a credible list of assistants.  I wonder whether Rhule could have done that.  McCarthy should have been able to play along.  If Gase gets Williams, this looks better.  

This looks to be the real issue and you said it perfectly. 

McCarthy was fired due to the idea that he was stubbornly sticking to an old and tired plan. It was one of the potential downsides of hiring him. All of us who wanted MM hoped that this was being overblown and that he could be bit more malleable than reported. Similar to Andy Reid in KC.  The Jets have every right, and are smart to check on this aspect by taking a look at his staff. If he is talking about Macadoo and Philbin etc and refusing to even consider some vetted alternatives like a Monken for example, the Jets are wise to back off. 

You nailed it by saying this should have been easily navigated by someone with MM's experience in this biz. He should have been able to play along and if he did he would have the job. 

 It's really not a good look that he was so rigid in his idea's after being fired with that tag.  Rhule is another one. He wanted to bring his friends from the playground to run the corporation. He's another idiot who should've been able to understand that he was being given an advanced opportunity and allowed for some assistance in his area of weakness. 

 

[GREENBEAN]

8 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Agreed with fighting last war comment.  Rex to Bowles was case in point.  One extreme to the other.  Rex was brash, so let's hire a doormat who inspires no one.

i think it's reasonable to ask for list of candidates and ask about decision making rationale, especially after the effects of Bowles being untethered.  But when coaches are turned off by that one element, that tells me that perhaps the Jets are being too intrusive.

Potentially.

Its most likely somewhere in the middle of this argument that's taking place here. All of the guys we interviewed had some downsides. MM being stuck in an antiquated mindset was one of his bigger concerns. You are right that MM should have been able to pick his staff with his extensive background. It's also fair to say that if he doesn't realize the need to alter his old plans and present some fresh young talent on that list it's a red flag. MM showing up with ideas from yesteryear could have raised some eyebrows in the room. 

I highly doubt the Jets gave him a firm list of guys they wanted him to hire. It's more likely that they weren't loving the list he gave them. 

[kmnj]

gee you have a choice hire a proven winner or a proven loser the jets do what the usually always do hire the proven loser. The Jet fans are so desperate for hope they try to convince themselves that a rotton piece of road kill is filet mignon from Peter Luger. Gase is awful his record says he is awful, his last employer said he was awful. His team had one of the worst offenses in the league during his tenure in an offense based league.

[kmnj]

1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:

Potentially.

Its most likely somewhere in the middle of this argument that's taking place here. All of the guys we interviewed had some downsides. MM being stuck in an antiquated mindset was one of his bigger concerns. You are right that MM should have been able to pick his staff with his extensive background. It's also fair to say that if he doesn't realize the need to alter his old plans and present some fresh young talent on that list it's a red flag. MM showing up with ideas from yesteryear could have raised some eyebrows in the room.  

I highly doubt the Jets gave him a firm list of guys they wanted him to hire. It's more likely that they weren't loving the list he gave them. 

such nonsense it is incredible -it is not like he has been out of the league for years and is some old man-his career is of a winner-Gase has a career of being a loser-MM probably looked around and saw Mac has a bad eye for talent and wanted the right to bring in his own coaches-he said to himself this is the guy that thought Hackenburg was a second round picked and has whiffed on almost all of his picks. He stumbled on to Sam only because Cousins said not to more more money.....

[GREENBEAN]

6 minutes ago, kmnj said:

such nonsense it is incredible -it is not like he has been out of the league for years and is some old man-his career is of a winner-Gase has a career of being a loser-MM probably looked around and saw Mac has a bad eye for talent and wanted the right to bring in his own coaches-he said to himself this is the guy that thought Hackenburg was a second round picked and has whiffed on almost all of his picks. He stumbled on to Sam only because Cousins said not to more more money.....

Yeah. THAT'S what happened. lol

We are having a discussion concerning the reported "facts". You are making things up and trying to add them to the conversation. If the sentence I highlighted from your tired narrative was true, MM would most likely not have taken the interview in the same way he denied Arizona. 

To discuss your point, no one said he was old man. I wanted MM very badly. The knock on him was that he may be stuck in some old ideas and stubbornly unwilling to change. We argued those points back and forth for weeks.  The report said that there were staffing issues at the root of why the hiring discussions broke down.  If MM showed up with a list of guys the Jets felt were not on the same trajectory as the league was heading they have every right to bring that up. If MM was unwilling to change or didn't like some of the guys the Jets presented it could have shown them a bit of what it would be like working with him. Right or wrong will remain to be seen. But that's what it looks like happened based on the reports. 

And let's be clear here. The Jets interviewed MM early in the process and it looks like they moved on way before his agent put out that news that MM was only looking for the HC job in NY.  If he was so bummed about the Hackenberg pick etc, why did that happen?  MM does have every right to bring in his own coaches. That's true. The Jets didn't like that group. If it was the likes of Macadoo and Philbin I would say they are correct to question the choices. 

The Jets moved on from McCarthy. It's not the other way around. Whatever your feelings toward Macc are irrelevant. MM wanted the job. That's not in question unless you want to disregard the actual time line of this process. 

[JohnnyLV]

19 hours ago, CTM said:

lol, you think this is easy being the homer here?

McCarthy wanted this job. I have no doubt that Mac didn't want him around for political reasons but everything points to the fact that team McCarthy was left at the alter here.

also, people falling for that article is annoying

McCarthy did likely win the job. San would be his third HOF QB in a row. But the Jets interest in him was tepid at best. He was no better than their 4th choice. He also would have been awful.

[BCJet]

40 minutes ago, kmnj said:

gee you have a choice hire a proven winner or a proven loser the jets do what the usually always do hire the proven loser. The Jet fans are so desperate for hope they try to convince themselves that a rotton piece of road kill is filet mignon from Peter Luger. Gase is awful his record says he is awful, his last employer said he was awful. His team had one of the worst offenses in the league during his tenure in an offense based league.

This is such an ill-informed take.  Andy Reid, Bill Belichek, Pete Carroll - all of those coaches were fired, and  the organization that fired Gase is one of the worst managed teams in all of football.  

Gase is smart,  holds people accountable, and has proven to get results out of a roster that had less talent then the jets do.  His record included 30% of the games being started by jay cutler, matt moore and Brock Osweiler - what exactly should he have achieved with those guys?

[FidelioJet]

Potentially.
Its most likely somewhere in the middle of this argument that's taking place here. All of the guys we interviewed had some downsides. MM being stuck in an antiquated mindset was one of his bigger concerns. You are right that MM should have been able to pick his staff with his extensive background. It's also fair to say that if he doesn't realize the need to alter his old plans and present some fresh young talent on that list it's a red flag. MM showing up with ideas from yesteryear could have raised some eyebrows in the room. 
I highly doubt the Jets gave him a firm list of guys they wanted him to hire. It's more likely that they weren't loving the list he gave them. 

It has become pretty clear to me that MM wasn’t hired because CJ/Mac couldn’t control his staff. Our failure of a GM and 2 year old owner had decided they knew better than a SuperBowl winning, long-time successful HC.
This was about power. We got the guy desperate enough to let CJ choose his staff.

This narrative about MM being antiquated is silly and non-sensical.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Pac]

4 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Gase is smart,  holds people accountable, and has proven to get results out of a roster that had less talent then the jets do.  His record included 30% of the games being started by jay cutler, matt moore and Brock Osweiler - what exactly should he have achieved with those guys?

I wanted McCarthy but when Aaron Rogers went down and he had to play a bad QB they looked completely inept.  Did Kizer even win a game?

[Ex-Rex]

23 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Or it’s possible that the Jets saw names like Joe Philbin and Ben McAdoo on McCarthy’s proposed staff and were turned off.

That’s totally within the realm of possibility. McCarthy has a track record of stubbornness and failure to learn from past mistakes.

 

I would have been turned off by that staff as well. McAdoo is a total jerk and Philbin is one of the reasons the Packers offense went stale.

[kmnj]

1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:

Yeah. THAT'S what happened. lol

We are having a discussion concerning the reported "facts". You are making things up and trying to add them to the conversation. If the sentence I highlighted from your tired narrative was true, MM would most likely not have taken the interview in the same way he denied Arizona. 

To discuss your point, no one said he was old man. I wanted MM very badly. The knock on him was that he may be stuck in some old ideas and stubbornly unwilling to change. We argued those points back and forth for weeks.  The report said that there were staffing issues at the root of why the hiring discussions broke down.  If MM showed up with a list of guys the Jets felt were not on the same trajectory as the league was heading they have every right to bring that up. If MM was unwilling to change or didn't like some of the guys the Jets presented it could have shown them a bit of what it would be like working with him. Right or wrong will remain to be seen. But that's what it looks like happened based on the reports. 

And let's be clear here. The Jets interviewed MM early in the process and it looks like they moved on way before his agent put out that news that MM was only looking for the HC job in NY.  If he was so bummed about the Hackenberg pick etc, why did that happen?  MM does have every right to bring in his own coaches. That's true. The Jets didn't like that group. If it was the likes of Macadoo and Philbin I would say they are correct to question the choices. 

The Jets moved on from McCarthy. It's not the other way around. Whatever your feelings toward Macc are irrelevant. MM wanted the job. That's not in question unless you want to disregard the actual time line of this process. 

the facts are MM is one of the few active coaches with a ring and his resume is great-I replied about a post where it was said he "tired old ways" which is nonsense

 

 

[kmnj]

49 minutes ago, BCJet said:

This is such an ill-informed take.  Andy Reid, Bill Belichek, Pete Carroll - all of those coaches were fired, and  the organization that fired Gase is one of the worst managed teams in all of football.  

Gase is smart,  holds people accountable, and has proven to get results out of a roster that had less talent then the jets do.  His record included 30% of the games being started by jay cutler, matt moore and Brock Osweiler - what exactly should he have achieved with those guys?

speaking of ill informed- what proven results has he had-his offense was at the bottom of the league-his team regressed under his watch and had tons of losses-the team had more talent when he walked in then when he walked about because his better players wanted out of town. MM showed proven results over many years and even before he was a head coach was well respected. His was the fall guy in Green Bay because Rodgers play was bad and the organization sided with their franchise qb- It is bizzaro world which is typical for the Jets world. Fans some how are trying to defend picking a proven loser over a proven winner.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Butterfield said:

You come off like a pompous idiot. 

Shrug, you asked and I answered. Sorry if I insulted your profession. I guess being a former lawyer, I just assume everyone can take some heat over their profession lol.

I will let you have the last word if you want it. Have a great day.

[BCJet]

50 minutes ago, Pac said:

I wanted McCarthy but when Aaron Rogers went down and he had to play a bad QB they looked completely inept.  Did Kizer even win a game?

McCarthy would not have been a terrible hire by any means.  He has a system for developing young QBs - and that does NOT mean he is responsible for Rogers being Rogers, those 2 things are not mutually exclusive.  I do think Gase is a better fit here mainly because I dont think the Jets were McCarthy's first choice while I think Gase really wants to be here with Sam.

[BCJet]

2 minutes ago, kmnj said:

speaking of ill informed- what proven results has he had-his offense was at the bottom of the league-his team regressed under his watch and had tons of losses-the team had more talent when he walked in then when he walked about because his better players wanted out of town. MM showed proven results over many years and even before he was a head coach was well respected. His was the fall guy in Green Bay because Rodgers play was bad and the organization sided with their franchise qb- It is bizzaro world which is typical for the Jets world. Fans some how are trying to defend picking a proven loser over a proven winner.

Rogers play was bad?  25 TDs and 2 picks on the season - what exactly is good play if that is bad?  I dont even have a problem with McCarthy, my point is that you're evaluation of Gase is completely wrong.

You reiterate that the dolphins offense was at the bottom of the league, could that have had anything to do with Brock Osweiler starting 7 games?  What exactly should Gase have done with arguably the worst starting QB in the league?  Who exactly wanted out of Miami, Jay Ajayi?  He was really a big part of the Eagles after being dumped by Gase with his 540 yards since joining the team.

[Butterfield]

20 minutes ago, jgb said:

Shrug, you asked and I answered. Sorry if I insulted your profession. I guess being a former lawyer, I just assume everyone can take some heat over their profession lol.

I will let you have the last word if you want it. Have a great day.

My profession?  I am not an HR professional.  It is just in my experience, those who have an attitude like yours towards employees and professions that they think are inferior, generally aren't even getting their own jobs done.  I imagine that is the case with you too.  To each their own.  

[GREENBEAN]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It has become pretty clear to me that MM wasn’t hired because CJ/Mac couldn’t control his staff. Our failure of a GM and 2 year old owner had decided they knew better than a SuperBowl winning, long-time successful HC.
This was about power. We got the guy desperate enough to let CJ choose his staff.

This narrative about MM being antiquated is silly and non-sensical.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

It's very close to what I'm saying with the small difference if being our guys wanted to "control" the staff or were they not "accepting" of the staff he presented?  It's a slight difference but very important.  I find it hard to believe they had a list of guys they wanted to stuff down his throat and that it's more accurate to say they wanted to see if he would consider the options they presented. Or that they weren't loving the guys MM brought to the table. 

if it's the former as you state, I'm wondering why MM still lobbied for the job at the final hour?  Serious question.   That's the main indicator of my thoughts really. 

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, kmnj said:

the facts are MM is one of the few active coaches with a ring and his resume is great-I replied about a post where it was said he "tired old ways" which is nonsense

 

 

gotcha. 

[Jetsfan80]

So both McCarthy and Rhule reportedly had concerns with the Jets micro-managing their assistant selections, yet this is all “agent spin”. Riiiight.

 

Meanwhile, both McCarthy and Gase would be calling the plays on offense, yet only McCarthy’s potential OC selection gets questioned.

 

Homerific!

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So both McCarthy and Rhule reportedly had concerns with the Jets micro-managing their assistant selections, yet this is all “agent spin”. Riiiight.

 

Meanwhile, both McCarthy and Gase would be calling the plays on offense, yet only McCarthy’s potential OC selection gets questioned.

 

Homerific!

Incredible how many people posted about being disgusted (not merely disappointed) with the Gase hire and quitting the team. Then the next day, about 10 “I’ve warmed up to him” threads lol.

[Larz]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So both McCarthy and Rhule reportedly had concerns with the Jets micro-managing their assistant selections, yet this is all “agent spin”. Riiiight.

 

Meanwhile, both McCarthy and Gase would be calling the plays on offense, yet only McCarthy’s potential OC selection gets questioned.

 

Homerific!

Questioned by the jets or the board?

[SMC]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So both McCarthy and Rhule reportedly had concerns with the Jets micro-managing their assistant selections, yet this is all “agent spin”. Riiiight.

 

Meanwhile, both McCarthy and Gase would be calling the plays on offense, yet only McCarthy’s potential OC selection gets questioned.

 

Homerific!

I believe there was assistant issues with Rhule.  This McCarthy story, on the other hand, was pure bullsh*t.

Again, right before the Jets' selection of Gase was reported, McCarthy publicly lobbied for the Jets job in a public statement.  However, we now are to believe there was an issue with assistants?

[Pac]

2 minutes ago, SMC said:

I believe there was assistant issues with Rhule.  This McCarthy story, on the other hand, was pure bullsh*t.

Again, right before the Jets' selection of Gase was reported, McCarthy publicly lobbied for the Jets job in a public statement.  However, we now are to believe there was an issue with assistants?

Don't bother.  He stopped using what little logic he had a couple years ago.  It's all bash all the time now..  Another Tumshame victim.

[DRJETS]

12 hours ago, BCJet said:

Rogers play was bad?  25 TDs and 2 picks on the season - what exactly is good play if that is bad?  I dont even have a problem with McCarthy, my point is that you're evaluation of Gase is completely wrong.

You reiterate that the dolphins offense was at the bottom of the league, could that have had anything to do with Brock Osweiler starting 7 games?  What exactly should Gase have done with arguably the worst starting QB in the league?  Who exactly wanted out of Miami, Jay Ajayi?  He was really a big part of the Eagles after being dumped by Gase with his 540 yards since joining the team.

K. Shanahan started someone from the street and a 7th rounder when his staring QB went down in the first week yet his team finished #15 in total offense.  True offensive genius always fall back into their own identity as a coach. What is Gase identity?  

[BleedGreen92]

Too bad so sad 

[Jetsfan80]

Don't bother.  He stopped using what little logic he had a couple years ago.  It's all bash all the time now..  Another Tumshame victim.

What have the Jets done to earn your constant adoration, 100 % of the time?

14-34 the last 3 years and I’m supposed to sing the praises of the team that kept its GM and hired their # 3 candidate.