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Jets’ pursuit of former Packers coach Mike McCarthy collapsed over staffing issues

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11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Yes, and I don't think anyone is denying that entirely.  However, it's also possible that the team had legitimate issues with both candidates staffing choices.  McCarthy wanted his same exact staff from Green Bay, and that staff was a big issue and a big reason as to why he was fired (he was considered "loyal" to a fault).  Rhule wanted to bring on an entire staff of college guys to develop a young team and a potential franchise QB.  Quite frankly, as someone who wanted Rhule, I was hoping he would be open to the team helping him find assistants.  It's one of the hardest things for college coaches to do when they transition to the NFL.  The risk associated with just bringing Baylor's coaching staff on over to the NFL is wayyyyyyyyy too high.

I get wanting your guy to get the job, but both McCarthy and Rhule had pretty big flaws in their own rights.  In fact, this looks bad on McCarthy because it screams of "GB was wrong the whole time, I was right" and this wasn't going to end in an Andy Reid 2.0 situation.  We would have gotten a guy who has stubbornly clung to his own ways and has no plans of "self reflecting" and changing.

Bingo!!!

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5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No I said I dont believe in another layer, I said "A good GM doesn't need another layer to get things done and owners dont make football decisions without input, whats one more voice guarantee?"  I said nothing about Macc

Youre running off on a tangent.  Most, almost all, teams dont have an additional layer and there is absolutely no proof that it adds anything to the running of a team.  Its also the last thing that a potential HC should worry about, especially given that none of the teams he wouldpotentially  interview with have one in their setup

I’m being concrete and bringing it all back home to the specific situation, rather than deal in abstraction. 

Is Mac that Good GM that you reference that requires no “Football Operations” oversight and accountability? This is the only relevant question really. 

I say no. I have said over and over for months that the team needs someone “Football” to right the ship at the top of the org chart. Someone with deep experience and ties to the NFL and Football community.

You appear to be saying that you think Mac is sufficient and no other layers between "the Football side” and the “Ownership side” is necessary or advisable, although i don’t want to speak for you tbh. You may only be willing to speak in the abstract about it.

I don’t think that comparing the Green Bay Operation with the NYJ Operation is going to be an argument you - or anyone - can win. It has been one of the most stable franchises that exists.

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An interview is a Q and A session on both sides of the table. Organization asks for a list of staff possibilities from a candidate then might as ask the candidate if so and so unavailable or unacceptable would he consider X,Y orZ. Answer goes a long way in determining the viability of the candidate. This is not forcing anyone on a candidate but it goes a long way in determining his flexibility and the coaching direction.

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This was simply about who was going to be Darnold’s mentor. Jets knew that Gase was a given. I bet McCarthy was having Macadoodledo come with him and the Jets were having none of it. 

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3 minutes ago, Vader said:

I’m being concrete and bringing it all back home to the specific situation, rather than deal in abstraction. 

Is Mac that Good GM that you reference that requires no “Football Operations” oversight and accountability? This is the only relevant question really. 

I say no. I have said over and over for months that the team needs someone “Football” to right the ship at the top of the org chart. Someone with deep experience and ties to the NFL and Football community.

You appear to be saying that you think Mac is sufficient and no other layers between "the Football side” and the “Ownership side” is necessary or advisable, although i don’t want to speak for you tbh. You may only be willing to speak in the abstract about it.

I don’t think that comparing the Green Bay Operation with the NYJ Operation is going to be an argument you - or anyone - can win. It has been one of the most stable franchises that exists.

OMG, youre arguing just to argue.  Ive said more than once now that I wasnt saying hes a good GM. Whats your point?  Stop, I'm done explain the same thing over and over

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33 minutes ago, jgb said:

Korn ferry absolutely useless based on my first hand knowledge. If you need an outside group to tell you the type of person you need to hire, you’re out of touch with your own Organization. Korn ferry exists so lazy HR has more time to travel to off-site meetings and “culture workshops.” First thing I’d do as a CEO is eliminate HR as a function entirely. Total waste.

as someone who does consulting, this is on point. People with money that don’t want to hire permanent management hire consultants. there is a great advantage to doing this for certain situations. Football is not one of them, it’s too specific, too quick-moving, and relationship-based, especially if you aren’t going to fold into the org the wherewithal you obtain from the consultants into your operation going forward. 

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In defense of McCarthy, I'd rather stay home with my family and go on a year long vacation with my 9 million dollars. Mike McCarthy with a whole year to reflect on what worked and what didn't is only going to benefit him and his next team. If he was hungry for a job, he would have yessed the Johnson's to death and would have already been announced as the next Jets head coach. 

In the Johnson's and Macc's defense, why would you want to hire a HC who isn't willing to change directions? His offense was stale and uninspired. You have to do better with an all-time great QB. It's unfortunate timing, but much like the Buccaneers are getting a refreshed Arians, I would want a refreshed McCarthy.  

This opinion is not about going with Gase, but why they didn't go with McCarthy. Even if the Johnson's and Macc are incompetent, it was the right decision to move away from Big Mike.  

 

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

OMG, youre arguing just to argue.  Ive said more than once now that I wasnt saying hes a good GM. Whats your point?  Stop, I'm done explain the same thing over and over

very good ttyl

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They hired Gase for development of Darnold end of story. Rhule has no experience for that and his oc they thought was no good for Darnold same with Mccarthy good leader but they want someone that’s not conservative offensive play calling JMHO. This is all about Darnold they think Gase will work well with him. And some head coach experience is a plus so don’t get this wrong they finally got a qb who they think is going to be a star and Gase was there choice to bring that out of him.will it work I don’t know but I think it will and so does the front office or they would of not hired him.

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Sounds like a Mac power play to me.

It was one thing to tell a college coach coming to the NFL for the first time that you need some say over his staff - I understood that.

But to tell a SB wining, long-term successful HC that the GM needs to have control over your staff...is very, very bad.

Scariest thing about this - the GM that has built, at best, a bottom 5 talent roster - has now gotten more control

And you wonder why we ended up with Miami's trash.

Dysfunctional is a compliment.

 

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14 minutes ago, Green DNA said:

In what world is Dowell Logains better than...than...than..well just about anybody?

He appears to be a guy Gase is comfortable with and worked well with in Miami. When Tanny went down they got more than  a few wins out of some very poor backup talent. Is he the next hot HC prospect no, is he someone Gase is comfortable with yes. I am sure Gase in the interview was required to make a case for any of his prospective hires. Quite possibly he made a very good case for the guy.

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7 minutes ago, Rolloffjet said:

They hired Gase for development of Darnold end of story. Rhule has no experience for that and his oc they thought was no good for Darnold same with Mccarthy good leader but they want someone that’s not conservative offensive play calling JMHO. This is all about Darnold they think Gase will work well with him. And some head coach experience is a plus so don’t get this wrong they finally got a qb who they think is going to be a star and Gase was there choice to bring that out of him.will it work I don’t know but I think it will and so does the front office or they would of not hired him.

I keep hearing this but no one has given me an answer - What QB did Gase develop?

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3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I believe in what I see, not what people tell me to believe who may have alterior motives.

I see McCarthy on a couch. That's what I know. 

McCarthy needs to be on a treadmill.  Thats what I know.

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Come on guys, this is quite clearly damage control from Team McCarthy. His agents job now is to make him a hot candidate for one of the handful of positions that will be available next year, there is no freaken way the agent wants to leave the idea out there that Jests of all teams rejected him. Not good for his 2020 prospects

Look at the vagueness of the language around the Jets interest, careful not to outright lie or state anything directly untrue. (bolded below)

  •  "talks broke down"  - not McCarthy rejected/withdrew or any other hard language to describe a definite action.
  • "McCarthy harbored concerns" - but in the same sentence says he had a productive interview, and again weak
  •  "began to have reservations" "unsure if they were a match" - vague and soft language again, not trying to out and out lie but rather create the narrative that it was McCarthy who was the impetus for the split, not the Jets.
  •  It even later acknowledge the Jets were in deep talks with Rhule at the same  (making it clear that he wasn't their only option or top choice) and then camps onto the same staffing excuse that Rhule publicly complained about (I 100% believe the Jets asked to see staff and expressed some reservations) (also, he has the same agent as Rhule)
  • "before it reach a job offer" - acknowledges they never offered the job to keep within the realm of truth

Next contrast that with how many times the article talks up McCarthy in strong and definitive language (bolded red below)

  • "very strong possibility " that he doesn't coach!! very strong!
  • "jets were very interested" - very very!!
  • "former Lombardi Trophy winner" - don't forget he won a SB!!
  • "McCarthy rebuffed strong overtures from the Cardinals" -  not very strong overtures??
  • "Jets were his most serious pursuer... but it was going to be a bit of a long shot" ... Yes you said that earlier, Jets very interested, but they had to bend over to get him
  • "McCarthy was always going to be very judicious about any job he took". Yes you said that 2x already but this time added back in "very"
  • "it was going take the perfect pitch to land him". Still repeating yourself. We get it, he is a SB winner and was going to be very discerning (very) because he could be as a SB winner who won a SB
  • "McCarthy will be watching film and following the league closely in 2019..... " . This is how the article closes. He's going to be putting in the work, don't forget about him next year or even mid year, just in case you need him then.  he'll be ready

gimme a freaken break. weak

 

Jets' pursuit of former Packers coach Mike McCarthy collapsed over staffing issues

There was always a very strong possibility that former Packers coach Mike McCarthy would sit out the 2019 season, as previously reported, and after his negotiations with the Jets fell apart that is precisely the case. League sources said the Jets were very interested in the former Lombardi Trophy winner but talks broke off over staffing issues.

 

McCarthy rebuffed strong overtures from the Cardinals before the end of the regular season, as reported, and he and the Browns were never going to be a match, something both sides knew throughout the process. There was little mutual interested and he never seriously spoke to Browns general manager John Dorsey – who he worked with in Green Bay – about the job, sources said. The Jets were his most serious pursuer, but even then it was always going to be a bit of a long shot.

McCarthy harbored some concerns about the structure and composition of the Jets front office, sources said, though he did have a productive interview with ownership and team officials. However, as the Jets began deeper conversations with their finalists for the job, it became clear he was not going to mesh with their direction. Specifically, sources said, the Jets asked to see a list of a potential coaching staff so that they could peruse and consider the options. McCarthy complied with the request but began to have reservations about the process at this point, sources said, and was unsure if this would in fact be a match.

McCarthy was always going to be very judicious about any job he took, with the Packers owing him roughly $9 million next season, according to sources, and with his family so entrenched in the Green Bay area. He was blindsided by his in-season firing, according to confidants, and it was going to take the perfect pitch to land him on the heels of that. Talks broke down essentially over the issue of staffing, sources said, before it reached the stage where the job was outright offered to McCarthy.

The Jets were also deep in talks with Baylor coach Matt Rhule at the same time, and he ultimately withdrew as well over staffing issues; Rhule wanted to bring a staff of primarily college coaches, which the Jets had concerns with. Adam Gase, who accepted the position, will have a staff of experienced NFL coaches coming in with him, which could include a former NFL head coach as the defensive coordinator – Gregg Williams is among those under consideration.

McCarthy will be watching film and following the league closely in 2019, and will also be fully able to interview with teams at any point in the season should clubs continue the trend of in-season firings.

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2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

CTM is really settling in to his new role as Pac’s cabana boy

lol, you think this is easy being the homer here?

McCarthy wanted this job. I have no doubt that Mac didn't want him around for political reasons but everything points to the fact that team McCarthy was left at the alter here.

also, people falling for that article is annoying

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Amazing.

Once again, Macc is the problem and Macc winds up with his second (or third tbqh) choice and tries to make it look like it was the plan all along.

McCarthy balked because Macc is a bad GM, a bad GM who wanted to control who McCarthy, a 13 year NFL Head Coach and Super Bowl winner, wanted on his staff.  What an amazingly poorly handled minor league move by Macc, trying to micromanage the staff like that for a guy with 100x times the resume Macc has.  And a sure indication that Macc would give McCarthy problems with the roster and talent too.

Macc then blows the deal with Rhule, same issue.  At least in this case a bit more justified, although if you're hard after a college coach with no real pro resume, because you know, youth and college offenses or something, why balk at college assistant coaches too?

So, we wind up with Gase, the contestant behind door #3.  Is what it is, and we'll all have to root for him (and getting Gregg Williams is a nice consolation prize if it happens), but once again (like with Cousins) it looks like Macc is a complete failure at closing the deal and getting the best, first choices for our Jets.  Maybe it'll work out, but damn, does Macc mange via failure or what?

What are you disappointed that Maccagnan wasn’t able to blow $100Mill on Cousins in a pure job saving move?  I posted a few times that I learned not long ago that Cousins has a 4-25 record against winning teams.  Logic would dictate that Minnesota just wasted a ton of money.  They’re not going to win with him.

Maccagnan is a total joke at this point.  There’s no one on planet earth who can articulate what kind of plan Maccagnan has had in trying to build the Jets, much less himself.  Like I’ve said before it’s nothing but a hodge podge of sh*t thrown against a wall.

He hit the lottery with Darnold  through pure luck, but this Gase is a loose cannon and way smarter than Maccagnan.  Jamal Adams already called Maccagnan out, expect the same from Gase if there are any glitches, and there are sure to be, the guy is just a beyond awful GM who should have never been hired in that role.  Same as Bowles.  I don’t care about any of the propaganda there is no way ANY team would hire Bowles as DC.  Surprising that the guy who hired him as DC now twice is his close friend.

Maccagnan still in his position.  Bowles and Rogers still collecting checks but thankfully with someone else.  At least 1/2 of the disaster has left the Jet Mom & Pop Shop.

The Jets still do business in a bad way.

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24 minutes ago, CTM said:

Come on guys, this is quite clearly damage control from Team McCarthy. His agents job now is to make him a hot candidate for one of the handful of positions that will be available next year, there is no freaken way the agent wants to leave the idea out there that Jests of all teams rejected him. Not good for his 2020 prospects

Look at the vagueness of the language around the Jets interest, careful not to outright lie or state anything directly untrue. (bolded below)

  •  "talks broke down"  - not McCarthy rejected/withdrew or any other hard language to describe a definite action.
  • "McCarthy harbored concerns" - but in the same sentence says he had a productive interview, and again weak
  •  "began to have reservations" "unsure if they were a match" - vague and soft language again, not trying to out and out lie but rather create the narrative that it was McCarthy who was the impetus for the split, not the Jets.
  •  It even later acknowledge the Jets were in deep talks with Rhule at the same  (making it clear that he wasn't their only option or top choice) and then camps onto the same staffing excuse that Rhule publicly complained about (I 100% believe the Jets asked to see staff and expressed some reservations) (also, he has the same agent as Rhule)
  • "before it reach a job offer" - acknowledges they never offered the job to keep within the realm of truth

Next contrast that with how many times the article talks up McCarthy in strong and definitive language (bolded red below)

  • "very strong possibility " that he doesn't coach!! very strong!
  • "jets were very interested" - very very!!
  • "former Lombardi Trophy winner" - don't forget he won a SB!!
  • "McCarthy rebuffed strong overtures from the Cardinals" -  not very strong overtures??
  • "Jets were his most serious pursuer... but it was going to be a bit of a long shot" ... Yes you said that earlier, Jets very interested, but they had to bend over to get him
  • "McCarthy was always going to be very judicious about any job he took". Yes you said that 2x already but this time added back in "very"
  • "it was going take the perfect pitch to land him". Still repeating yourself. We get it, he is a SB winner and was going to be very discerning (very) because he could be as a SB winner who won a SB
  • "McCarthy will be watching film and following the league closely in 2019..... " . This is how the article closes. He's going to be putting in the work, don't forget about him next year or even mid year, just in case you need him then.  he'll be ready

gimme a freaken break. weak

 

Jets' pursuit of former Packers coach Mike McCarthy collapsed over staffing issues

There was always a very strong possibility that former Packers coach Mike McCarthy would sit out the 2019 season, as previously reported, and after his negotiations with the Jets fell apart that is precisely the case. League sources said the Jets were very interested in the former Lombardi Trophy winner but talks broke off over staffing issues.

 

McCarthy rebuffed strong overtures from the Cardinals before the end of the regular season, as reported, and he and the Browns were never going to be a match, something both sides knew throughout the process. There was little mutual interested and he never seriously spoke to Browns general manager John Dorsey – who he worked with in Green Bay – about the job, sources said. The Jets were his most serious pursuer, but even then it was always going to be a bit of a long shot.

McCarthy harbored some concerns about the structure and composition of the Jets front office, sources said, though he did have a productive interview with ownership and team officials. However, as the Jets began deeper conversations with their finalists for the job, it became clear he was not going to mesh with their direction. Specifically, sources said, the Jets asked to see a list of a potential coaching staff so that they could peruse and consider the options. McCarthy complied with the request but began to have reservations about the process at this point, sources said, and was unsure if this would in fact be a match.

McCarthy was always going to be very judicious about any job he took, with the Packers owing him roughly $9 million next season, according to sources, and with his family so entrenched in the Green Bay area. He was blindsided by his in-season firing, according to confidants, and it was going to take the perfect pitch to land him on the heels of that. Talks broke down essentially over the issue of staffing, sources said, before it reached the stage where the job was outright offered to McCarthy.

The Jets were also deep in talks with Baylor coach Matt Rhule at the same time, and he ultimately withdrew as well over staffing issues; Rhule wanted to bring a staff of primarily college coaches, which the Jets had concerns with. Adam Gase, who accepted the position, will have a staff of experienced NFL coaches coming in with him, which could include a former NFL head coach as the defensive coordinator – Gregg Williams is among those under consideration.

McCarthy will be watching film and following the league closely in 2019, and will also be fully able to interview with teams at any point in the season should clubs continue the trend of in-season firings.

Loser

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1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I don't BELIEVE McCarthy is unemployed. I KNOW he's unemployed.

Seems he’s still making more than most will in a lifetime to be so, despite your silly false equivalencies.

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16 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

What are you disappointed that Maccagnan wasn’t able to blow $100Mill on Cousins in a pure job saving move?

I don't think it's a positive our GM consistently fails to close the deal on his first choice.  Do you?

16 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

 I posted a few times that I learned not long ago that Cousins has a 4-25 record against winning teams.

Yet he was the clear-cut #1 choice of Macc that offseason.  Same as McCarthy (or some say Harbaugh) was his #1 choice this year.  

16 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

 Logic would dictate that Minnesota just wasted a ton of money.  They’re not going to win with him.

They might, they might not.  Same as us with Darnold.  

But Macc clearly thought he could win with Cousins, and went after him hard.  Darnold, or should I say "whichever QB fell to pick #3" was Macc's 2nd choice.  

16 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Maccagnan is a total joke at this point.

Then what are we arguing about? :-D

16 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

There’s no one on planet earth who can articulate what kind of plan Maccagnan has had in trying to build the Jets, much less himself.  Like I’ve said before it’s nothing but a hodge podge of sh*t thrown against a wall.

Exactly.

16 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

The Jets still do business in a bad way.

Indeed we do.  I hope Gase is the same kind of lucky miracle Darnold appears to be.  

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Probably has been sad already, but the Jets coordinators have been pretty bad for a while now. No issues with the Jets wanting to know WHO the potential coaches are considering. None at all. 

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4 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

So basically, the Jets simply went with the guy most willing to be their whipping boy.  That's really just fantastic.

If that's what you took away from the article, then you obviously came to it with your agenda firmly fixed. It's become pretty clear to anyone who is following this that McCarthy was ambivalent at best and planned to bring in staff that did not impress the Jets. Those are very good reasons to say "see you later." Nothing to do with Gase, everything to do with McCarthy.

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