Jets’ pursuit of former Packers coach Mike McCarthy collapsed over staffing issues

[Vader]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

And the HC and GM report to him separately.  GB has no owner, Murphy is in charge because they are publicly held

So, unless the stock holders have a Upper Deck Card its like every other owner

You are missing the point. Green Bay has a VP of Football Operations/President/Director. A football guy in charge of the whole outfit. He can get fired. 

Johnson is in charge of the entire Jets outfit. He can not get fired.

Last go-around Johnson had to hire outside “Football” expertise (consultants) to “advise” on hiring. Korn/Ferry and Casserly, etc.

This isn’t complicated. Johnson has no football expertise. None. Zero. 

I have been advocating for a VP of Football for months on this board. 

 

[GreenFish]

13 minutes ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

Its pretty obvious that they liked Rhule and McCarthy as Head Coaches but identified Gase or Monken as the guys they wanted as OC for Darnold. 

 

This is pretty much the takeaway I got as well. CJ and Macc viewed the influence the coaching staff would have on Darnold as important as the HC. So they like Gase better than a Rhule or McCarthy hire with a OC they didn't agree with. The decision is not just about the head coach but about the entire coaching staff. People may disagree with that logic but I think it makes sense. I don't think McCarthy or Rhule would have hired terrible coordinators but the Jets FO liked the package Gase offered better. Rhule would have definitely been x out by me since he doesn't bring the QB development that McCarthy brings. But if McCarthy was strict on bring in a OC that is a pure WCO offensive guy, than I would have given him an x as well. 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

So basically the sojf fanbase believes whatever they read, provided it's a negative take on the Jets front office/ownership.

This could be McCarthy leaking info to save face but there is no chance you'd ever accept that plausible version of events 

Yeah, yeah McCarthy is unemployed today because that's what he really wants. He's just too good for every team in the NFL. Poor guy.

But don't you worry, he'll be"locked and loaded" next year, right??? 

I mean, if my option was 9M to not work 80+ hour weeks and not see my family, the job I’m offered better be damn near perfect not to take that.

The most logical situation is Mccarthy probably liked the idea of working with Darnold, but if the Jets weren’t willing to give him what he wanted, 9M and a vacation is not a bad fallback plan.

[Bocajetfan]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

So basically, the Jets simply went with the guy most willing to be their whipping boy.  That's really just fantastic.

From what I have seen down here and read about Gase and his ego nothing indicates a willingness to be a whipping boy. I believe the Jets as an organization felt the need to pursue an experienced coach based on past failures. They were willing too look at Kingsbury and Rhule but saw staffing issues that could not be resolved. That left Gase, McCarthy and Caldwell. Of those 3 Gase won out based on everything brought to the table experience, staff possibilities etc.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

Definitely seems like mccagnan and Cj had enough of inept assistant coaches who couldn’t hack it or develop talent. Coaches can’t just show up and think they can do what they want  

Arizona learned this lesson as well. A big criticism of Steve Wilkes was his staffing. The guy did not have a great network of contacts and coaches in the NFL when he came out of Carolina. Even now, with the hiring of Kingsbury, the Cardinals are heavily focused on getting experienced people around him and Kliff is fully on board with that approach. They already hired Vance Joseph, former head coach and defensive coordinator to be the DC there.  Sarkisian is expected to be OC. 

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Amazing.

Once again, Macc is the problem and Macc winds up with his second (or third tbqh) choice and tries to make it look like it was the plan all along.

McCarthy balked because Macc is a bad GM, a bad GM who wanted to control who McCarthy, a 13 year NFL Head Coach and Super Bowl winner, wanted on his staff.  What an amazingly poorly handled minor league move by Macc, trying to micromanage the staff like that for a guy with 100x times the resume Macc has.  And a sure indication that Macc would give McCarthy problems with the roster and talent too.

Macc then blows the deal with Rhule, same issue.  At least in this case a bit more justified, although if you're hard after a college coach with no real pro resume, because you know, youth and college offenses or something, why balk at college assistant coaches too?

So, we wind up with Gase, the contestant behind door #3.  Is what it is, and we'll all have to root for him (and getting Gregg Williams is a nice consolation prize if it happens), but once again (like with Cousins) it looks like Macc is a complete failure at closing the deal and getting the best, first choices for our Jets.  Maybe it'll work out, but damn, does Macc mange via failure or what?

Way to spin it towards your argument. You hate Mac and this feeds your word... The ownership is bad I agree but this is absolutely damage control from Mccarthy's agent

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I believe in what I see, not what people tell me to believe who may have alterior motives.

I see McCarthy on a couch. That's what I know. 

No you don’t.  If you believed what you saw, you wouldn’t post so much chastising anyone who’s opinion of this team is actually in line with the fact that they’ve won 14 games in 3 years.  Nope, you believe only what you want to believe.

[RutgersJetFan]

47 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Look I am OK with Gase but this PRECISELY why I have a BIG BIG BIG problem with the Jets FO.

They CONSISTENTLY act as if they are smarter than everyone else in the NFL and make decisions so that they are in the "circle of influence" while judiciously avoiding anyone coming into the Jet  mix who is far more qualified than the collection of mediocre folks with whom they have constantly surrounded themselves.

 

Don't sell them short. It's not an act. The Johnsons don't think they're smarter than anyone, they just don't have an interest in spending anything. They don't want to pay for coaches and based on the last half decade they don't have an interest in paying for players either. They are consistently one of the most valuable franchises in the NFL despite being one of its least successful.

It's highly unlikely that the Jets thought someone of McCarthy's stature would take the gig with the FO demanding to have a say in his coaching staff. Not hard to put the pieces together on this one.

[Jetmech]

He was working PR, nothing more.  Trying to convince the team (Macc) to give in and hire him under his terms by playing the media.  Maybe playing the owner vs. the GM too.
Again, if you think Gase was the teams #1 choice, that bridge I offered can be yours for a low low price, Homer.

That statement/tweet was definitely to put pressure on the Jets, possibly for those reasons you mention.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[jetsfansince7]

So basically, the Jets simply went with the guy most willing to be their whipping boy.  That's really just fantastic.

Gase will not be the Jets whipping boy. That’s why he’s out at Miami


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[Vader]

3 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Way to spin it towards your argument. You hate Mac and this feeds your word... The ownership is bad I agree but this is absolutely damage control from Mccarthy's agent

Of course it is. His reputation was ruined by multiple parties. If I were him I'd have a team of attorneys on this sh*t as well. 

[carlito1171]

Same people would be upset if we hired Rhule and he packed up the Waco facility with him or if we hired McCarthy with Philbin as his top lieutenant...maybe Macadoo as QB coach to round it out so he can tell Sam how much he hates his mechanics to his face everyday in practice...

Cant win in Jet land 

[Vader]

5 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Don't sell them short. It's not an act. The Johnsons don't think they're smarter than anyone, they just don't have an interest in spending anything. They don't want to pay for coaches and based on the last half decade they don't have an interest in paying for players either. They are consistently one of the most valuable franchises in the NFL despite being one of its least successful.

It's highly unlikely that the Jets thought someone of McCarthy's stature would take the gig with the FO demanding to have a say in his coaching staff. Not hard to put the pieces together on this one.

The don’t make baby powder anymore. They are basically finance bros.

[Jet Nut]

13 minutes ago, Vader said:

You are missing the point. Green Bay has a VP of Football Operations/President/Director. A football guy in charge of the whole outfit. He can get fired. 

Johnson is in charge of the entire Jets outfit. He can not get fired.

Last go-around Johnson had to hire outside “Football” expertise (consultants) to “advise” on hiring. Korn/Ferry and Casserly, etc.

This isn’t complicated. Johnson has no football expertise. None. Zero. 

I have been advocating for a VP of Football for months on this board. 

 

And youre missing the point, the structure issue discussed was that the Jets have their GM and HC report to CJ.  In GB the HC and GM both report to someone too.  

No one anywhere has complained that CJ isnt a football person, no one claims he is.  If that was an issue then its an issue with 95% or more of the league.  What does using a consulting group 4 years ago have to do with it?  Others do the same, some did this year.  

I'm one of those who dont buy into the one extra layer involved in decision making.  It still comes down to presenting decisions that affect the team to the owner or CEO of a team.  How has the VP of Football operations helped the Jaguars?  What exactly has Coughlin done in the last 2 years to help them?  Last year?  How about the Fish?  Parcells was there as the VP, did it help?  Tannenbaum, has he helped? A good GM doesnt need another layer to get things done and owners dont make football decisions without input, whats one more voice guarantee?

[Jimmy 2 Times]

NFL head coaching interviews have to submit their expected staff.  

It's part of the process and happens 99% of the time.

What the Jets asked is standard procedure.

[CTM]

Nonsense. Dude leaked that he only had eyes for the Jets the night before Gase was hired. Then he dropped out of coaching in 19 completely when we hired Gase.

This is his agent trying to make it look like he wasnt rejected, but he was, for better or worse.

[BigO]

This makes all the sense in the world. After 4 years of Macc and Bowles being given free reign to assemble a defense, it was apparent neither one had a clue how to go about it. Selecting BPA underachieving draft picks, signing expensive FA’s that didn’t produce and mismanaging schemes a 16 year old could break, CJ had enough. If you’re going to go hire an offensive minded HC, it’s all the more crucial you put the defense into someone else’s hands. The 85 Bears were Buddy Ryan’s baby not Ditka’s. A guy like Greg Williams will instantly put his stamp on this team through his mindset and influence Macc’s feeble football IQ. 

[Lizard King]

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

However, as the Jets began deeper conversations with their finalists for the job, it became clear he was not going to mesh with their direction.

What direction is that, the abyss? 50 year anniversary of our last super bowl 

[k-met57]

am i the only one who has no issue with the coaching staff being a collaborate effort? when did Matt Rhule become Bill Parcells? or McCarthy for that matter? very big difference between being told who your coaches should be and it being something you cant decide in a vacuum.

[Vader]

9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 A good GM doesnt need another layer to get things done?

And is Maccagnan a good GM then?

[Warfish]

18 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Way to spin it towards your argument. You hate Mac and this feeds your word... The ownership is bad I agree but this is absolutely damage control from Mccarthy's agent

Hate implies it's personal, it's not.

I wanted Macc fired because Macc, IMO and laid out in dozens of previous posts in detail, has not been a good or effective General Manager of the team since he took over.  His record is the same as Bowles record.  He gets no pass, and we are considered one of the least talented teams in the league today.  The Macc resume does not lie.

I don't believe this is damage control, McCarthy's rep in this league is far superior to Macc's.  I think this is McCarthy exposing Macc, which (it should be noted) lines up neatly with what we know about Macc.  

End of the day, I think it's obvious to the more objective folks that Gase was not choice #1.  He was the third tier fallback when the first few choices wouldn't give in to Macc's micromanagement of their staff.  Like Cousins, lets hope Macc's failure to land the #1 works out.

[SMC]

McCarthy was my No. 1 choice, but this article seems like spin.

I believe in two things, which do not need to conflict: (1) a HC should be able to pick his own staff, and (2) a team has a right to review who those staff members are.

Assistants are employees of the organization, not the HC. If any of those potential staff members have a serious red flag, the organization should be able to discuss it with the HC and advise of the issue.

We don't know what the precise staffing issue was with respect to the article, so we can't say the Jets or McCarthy was wrong because both seem to be exercising their rights.

Lastly, I don't know where people are getting this notion that Gase was the Jets' "third choice."  It's been reported multiple places that the Jets only offered the job to Gase.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

If you don't trust a guy to build a staff, you shouldn't even be interviewing him to be your head coach in the first place.  Chris Johnson and Mike Maccagnan are in no way any more qualified to make such decisions.

Yet apparently this is how they felt about all of their final candidates, which is hardly reassuring.

It looks like they wanted Williams as DC. Is that a bad choice?

[Charlie Brown]

I am ok with Gase and like CJ....  That withstanding.....

We need football folks in charge of the organization.

It was why I wanted Mike Shanahan as either the HC or the President of Football operations.

Some of us think that the FO has been just fine and I have some problem with that characterization.

Lets Go Jets

[Jet Life]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Or it’s possible that the Jets saw names like Joe Philbin and Ben McAdoo on McCarthy’s proposed staff and were turned off.

That’s totally within the realm of possibility. McCarthy has a track record of stubbornness and failure to learn from past mistakes.

 

Yup. Schefter reported on TV last week the Jets weren’t forcing staff on any candidate. He said the Jets asked each HC candidate their potential staff (which he said is normal in all interviews) and just simply didn’t like the staff Rhule put together and never offered, so assuming this is the same as McCarthy too. They didn’t like his potential staff of guys like Philbin and Mcadoo. 

So the narrative that Rhule and McCarthy were offered the job if Macc got to pick their staffs is false. But I know conspiracy theories and ignoring facts is more popular and fun to talk about 

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Vader said:

And is Maccagnan a good GM then?

Did anyone say this?  We're talking the structure of the FO.  

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, Jet Life said:

Yup. Schefter reported on TV last week the Jets weren’t forcing staff on any candidate. He said the Jets asked each HC candidate their potential staff (which he said is normal in all interviews) and just simply didn’t like the staff Rhule put together and never offered, so assuming this is the same as McCarthy too. They didn’t like his potential staff of guys like Philbin and Mcadoo. 

So the narrative that Rhule and McCarthy were offered the job if Macc got to pick their staffs is false. But I know conspiracy theories and ignoring facts is more popular and fun to talk about 

I keep saying the same thing.  You interview, youre asked about who your staff will be.  They evaluate you and your entire staff. 

We are talking McAdoo who while still the Giants HC was awfully negative in his review of Darnold and his mechanics.  That's all.  

[Jet Nut]

Jets:  Sorry Mike, we're going in a different direction.

Mike:  I don't like the structure, or the job anymore.

Jet Fan:  We suck 

 

Employer:  You're fired

Employee:  I quit

[RutgersJetFan]

17 minutes ago, Vader said:

The don’t make baby powder anymore. They are basically finance bros.

Pretty much, and the Jets are an asset that has only appreciated plus the extra tens of millions they've pulled in from being so far under the cap every year, hiring cheap coordinators to run the team, and rookie GM's. Why bother trying to win?

[RutgersJetFan]

9 minutes ago, SMC said:

McCarthy was my No. 1 choice, but this article seems like spin.

I believe in two things, which do not need to conflict: (1) a HC should be able to pick his own staff, and (2) a team has a right to review who those staff members are.

Assistants are employees of the organization, not the HC. If any of those potential staff members have a serious red flag, the organization should be able to discuss it with the HC and advise of the issue.

We don't know what the precise staffing issue was with respect to the article, so we can't say the Jets or McCarthy was wrong because both seem to be exercising their rights.

Lastly, I don't know where people are getting this notion that Gase was the Jets' "third choice."  It's been reported multiple places that the Jets only offered the job to Gase. 

Conceptually it's the same reason that Rhule said no thanks. Occam's razor seems like the way to go on this one.

[Charlie Brown]

4 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

Yup. Schefter reported on TV last week the Jets weren’t forcing staff on any candidate. He said the Jets asked each HC candidate their potential staff (which he said is normal in all interviews) and just simply didn’t like the staff Rhule put together and never offered, so assuming this is the same as McCarthy too. They didn’t like his potential staff of guys like Philbin and Mcadoo. 

So the narrative that Rhule and McCarthy were offered the job if Macc got to pick their staffs is false. But I know conspiracy theories and ignoring facts is more popular and fun to talk about 

The key isn't picking but sign off of the staff.

The Jets clearly wanted to sign off.

This is because of the boob Kacey Rogers and his incompetence. 

Rogers was permitted to roam the sidelines when he was one of the WORST DC in the league but remained, because Bowles was loyal to him and I said when Rogers got sick and the defense looked better, if Bowels returns the reigns to Rogers he should be FIRED! And he was....

So the Jets had to do this after they permitted Todd Bowles to have in total the worst overall coaching staff perhaps in the entire NFL 

[Vader]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Did anyone say this?  We're talking the structure of the FO.  

You said if the GM is good there is no need for another layer. 

We also aren’t only taking about the structure of the front office but also the relationship of the front office with financial stakeholders - the owner(s), as well as the decision making model the organization uses.

The are different classes of decisions made: operations and financial. In this kind of business, operations is largely dedicated to “football”. 

For the Jets, Johnson isn’t in the Front Office. 

[GREENBEAN]

Not only will the GM and HC be reporting bilaterally to Johnson, in a separate but equal parallel structure, but now it looks like the HC and the DC will be running their side of the ball exclusively, as separate but equal authorities, and reporting biilaterally to…Johnson? 
?

lol. We don’t even have a DC yet and you have it all figured out already. Literally zero firm information and the conclusions have been drawn. Come on



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[jgb]

41 minutes ago, Vader said:

You are missing the point. Green Bay has a VP of Football Operations/President/Director. A football guy in charge of the whole outfit. He can get fired. 

Johnson is in charge of the entire Jets outfit. He can not get fired.

Last go-around Johnson had to hire outside “Football” expertise (consultants) to “advise” on hiring. Korn/Ferry and Casserly, etc.

This isn’t complicated. Johnson has no football expertise. None. Zero. 

I have been advocating for a VP of Football for months on this board. 

 

Korn ferry absolutely useless based on my first hand knowledge. If you need an outside group to tell you the type of person you need to hire, you’re out of touch with your own Organization. Korn ferry exists so lazy HR has more time to travel to off-site meetings and “culture workshops.” First thing I’d do as a CEO is eliminate HR as a function entirely. Total waste.

[Vader]

2 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

lol. We don’t even have a DC yet and you have it all figured out already. Literally zero firm information and the conclusions have been drawn. Come on



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It’s tongue and cheek, homey