Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I actually like the Gase hire as I have digested it, but Williams to me seems like a bad pivot. Look at his defensive rankings the last few years, not very good. Bottom of the league stuff. Dorsey knew what he was doing in keeping Kitchens and letting Williams walk. Yes, he injected some spunk for a few games into his team, but that eventually goes away. His personality never lasts more than 3 years. Wade Phillips he is not. Would rather have a young up and comer for the defense, not a retread here. Someone like a Kris Richard, if the Jets could pry him away from the Cowboys. I think the defensive game with the new offenses has passed Williams by. Just don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets1958 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Cowboys May promote Richards to DC. This morning’s news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 years? Perfect. Let him build an excellent defense for us for 3 years, then get hired away for another crack at HC elsewhere. Works out great for us, in that time we should either 1.) identify a capable coach to take over the D Williams sets up, so that Gase can continue to do well, or 2.) fire them all because they suck anyway. 3 years is plenty of time in the NFL. Most franchise don't let sh*tty coaches linger for 4-5 years like we have done lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: I actually like the Gase hire as I have digested it, but Williams to me seems like a bad pivot. Look at his defensive rankings the last few years, not very good. Bottom of the league stuff. Dorsey knew what he was doing in keeping Kitchens and letting Williams walk. Yes, he injected some spunk for a few games into his team, but that eventually goes away. His personality never lasts more than 3 years. Wade Phillips he is not. Would rather have a young up and comer for the defense, not a retread here. Someone like a Kris Richard, if the Jets could pry him away from the Cowboys. I think the defensive game with the new offenses has passed Williams by. Just don't see it. I think the Williams hire would makes things look and feel better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfield Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I am not a fan either. 3 years is the absolute longest you’d have the guy. 1-2 years is more likely. The guy is an idiot, and wears out his welcome extremely quickly. I am still wondering why he is looking at defensive coordinator positions while he is receiving so many head coaching offers, without even interviewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Gooch said: I think the Williams hire makes things look better in the newspapers maybe... but 28th against the run, and 25th against the pass? WIth the talent he had on that D? Come on now. Wade Phillips teams are consistently in the top echelon. His name is a PR headline at this point in his career. Just don't see the fit. Maybe I'm wrong but his defensive stats the last few years are underwhelming where the rubber meets the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: I actually like the Gase hire as I have digested it, but Williams to me seems like a bad pivot. Look at his defensive rankings the last few years, not very good. Bottom of the league stuff. DVOA before and after under Gregg Williams Titans: 18th to 16th Redskins: 24th to 4th Saints: 26th to 17th Rams: 11th to 9th Browns: 30th to 12th He has had a positive effect everywhere he has coached. Also keep in mind that 2 of his worst "Total Defensive" years were as the Saints DC when they were scoring a ton of points so they gave up garbage time points and yards just so they could keep the clock moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Who does this Williams fellow coach for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 And here's one that might be controversial on this board... more of a locker room dynamic question. With the simmering anger over the firing of black coaches, including Wilks, the Jets go from Bowles, Rodgers, Bates, and a diverse set of coaches, to three white coaches/coordinators. Then add Maccagnan and Heimerdinger. How will that play in the locker room? Would rather take a chance on promoting a Frank Bush to coordinator, and having a great staff underneath him that setting that up. Can see that being a problem for Gase on the heals of Bowles, who was admired in that locker room. IN a modern day locker room, with all the politics around the country and in the NFL, Gase has to think about that, lest he lose the locker room when things are going bad. A Leslie Frazier type hire with an assistant head coach title would seem to be in his better interest here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, bla bla bla said: DVOA before and after under Gregg Williams Titans: 18th to 16th Redskins: 24th to 4th Saints: 26th to 17th Rams: 11th to 9th Browns: 30th to 12th He has had a positive effect everywhere he has coached. Also keep in mind that 2 of his worst "Total Defensive" years were as the Saints DC when they were scoring a ton of points so they gave up garbage time points and yards just so they could keep the clock moving. 32nd in DVOA in 2017, 18th in 2018... we're selling the farm for that? Not surprised he injects some enthusiasm into his players, but the fix is short-lived... he wears out his welcome. We've seen that with Rex before, he's worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peekskill68 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: And here's one that might be controversial on this board... more of a locker room dynamic question. With the simmering anger over the firing of black coaches, including Wilks, the Jets go from Bowles, Rodgers, Bates, and a diverse set of coaches, to three white coaches/coordinators. Then add Maccagnan and Heimerdinger. How will that play in the locker room? Would rather take a chance on promoting a Frank Bush to coordinator, and having a great staff underneath him that setting that up. Can see that being a problem for Gase on the heals of Bowles, who was admired in that locker room. IN a modern day locker room, with all the politics around the country and in the NFL, Gase has to think about that, lest he lose the locker room when things are going bad. A Leslie Frazier type hire with an assistant head coach title would seem to be in his better interest here. I think the players would follow a Martian if they were winning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: And here's one that might be controversial on this board... more of a locker room dynamic question. With the simmering anger over the firing of black coaches, including Wilks, the Jets go from Bowles, Rodgers, Bates, and a diverse set of coaches, to three white coaches/coordinators. Then add Maccagnan and Heimerdinger. How will that play in the locker room? Would rather take a chance on promoting a Frank Bush to coordinator, and having a great staff underneath him that setting that up. Can see that being a problem for Gase on the heals of Bowles, who was admired in that locker room. IN a modern day locker room, with all the politics around the country and in the NFL, Gase has to think about that, lest he lose the locker room when things are going bad. A Leslie Frazier type hire with an assistant head coach title would seem to be in his better interest here. I don't care of you are white, black, purple, or from philly; if you are the best candidate for the job you should be hire. You should never hire someone due to the color of their skin and not on merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Absolutely disagree. I've watched the Browns this season and seen the type of impact he had as both a DC and HC for that organization. He had that defense humming. Granted, he's a risk taker, sometimes when he doesnt have to be. Example: When you have Miles Garrett, sometimes you shouldnt have to blitz given that Garrett's job is to get to the QB. Let the guy earn his paycheck in otherwords. But overall, Williams showed to be a fine defensive mind. Also, Denzel Ward was his choice. Listening to John Dorsey interviews, it was asked of him "why did he go with the unlikely pick in Ward over guys like Bradley Chubb", and his answer was "Williams said we need a corner and Ward is the most fundamentally sound CB in terms of coverage in the draft". Dorsey actually listened to him, and Ward is a rookie probowler. Gregg Williams would be the best hire from a defensive perspective since Rex Ryan's first 2 seasons. Im not saying we'll be 1st and 4th in the league like we were those first two seasons under Rex since Rex had more talent to work with, but in terms of player development I think Williams is a solid choice. One of the biggest problems the Jets have had over the past 4+ years is #1. player development and #2. recognizing player position. John Dorsey signed CB Damarious Randell from Green Bay and Williams simply put Randell back at his natural position of Safety, and Randell had the best season of his career this past season. This isnt the first time that a defensive back from Green Bay left the packers and completely turned around their career simply by being put in a position to succeed. We literally just seen this with another GB CB in Casey Heyward. Heyward was with the Pack for the first 4 years of his career and was mediocre. He signed with the Chargers and he's a top 10 CB in the league today. To add, this is one of my problems with McCarthy and why I feel he's overrated as a coach. McCarthy has been looking for DB's for years claiming that he needs help in that area. But the reality is that DB's leaving GB as of late are going to other teams and are becoming stars. That's a direct reflection on the GB coach. Gregg Williams does a good job of recognizing what defensive players can do and coaches them up to maximize their talent. I seen him do that with Denzel Ward and how he tackles for such a little guy. Everytime he did the opposite of what Williams told him Ward either injured his back (early in the season) or suffered concussions for being that small but trying to tackle high. You absolutely sign Gregg Williams if you can. As a sidenote, I think that if we do land Williams, Week 1's Monday Night Football will be Jets/Browns. We play them again this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: 32nd in DVOA in 2017, 18th in 2018... we're selling the farm for that? Not surprised he injects some enthusiasm into his players, but the fix is short-lived... he wears out his welcome. We've seen that with Rex before, he's worse. 1) How are we selling the farm? His money does not count against the cap. 2) Yeah probably be gone in 3 years (or the end of cheap Darnold). Coordinators don't tend to hang around very long in the NFL anyway because divisional teams tend to figure them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, bla bla bla said: I don't care of you are white, black, purple, or from philly; if you are the best candidate for the job you should be hire. You should never hire someone due to the color of their skin and not on merit. I agree, all things being equal... I just don't think Williams is a lights out coach; I think they can do better. And I have to believe if he is more of a retread middling coach, that there are plenty of white and black coaches out there that are equivalent if not better. And unless we are the Patriots and always winning (which history would say the Jets are not), adversity will eventually strike. And fracturing a locker room with a retread who arguably is no better than Bowles on the defensive side of the ball, can have an effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: Absolutely disagree. I've watched the Browns this season and seen the type of impact he had as both a DC and HC for that organization. He had that defense humming. Granted, he's a risk taker, sometimes when he doesnt have to be. Example: When you have Miles Garrett, sometimes you shouldnt have to blitz given that Garrett's job is to get to the QB. Let the guy earn his paycheck in otherwords. But overall, Williams showed to be a fine defensive mind. Also, Denzel Ward was his choice. Listening to John Dorsey interviews and it was asked of him whey did he go with the unlikely pick in Ward over guys like Bradley Chubb and his answer was "Williams said we need a corner and Ward is the most fundamentally sound CB in terms of coverage in the draft". Dorsey actually listened to him, and Ward is a rookie probowler. Gregg Williams would be the best hire from a defensive perspective since Rex Ryan's first 2 seasons. Im not saying we'll be 1st and 4th in the league like we were those first two seasons under Rex since Rex had more talent to work with, but in terms of player development I think Williams is a solid choice. One of the biggest problems the Jets have had over the past 4+ years is player #1. development and #2. recognizing player position. John Dorsey signed CB Damarious Randell from Green Bay and Williams simply put Randell back at his natural position of Safety, and Randell had the best season of his career this past season. This isnt the first time that a defensive back from Green Bay left the packers and completely turned around their career simply by being put in a position to succeed. We literally just seen this with another GB CB in Casey Heyward. Heyward was with the Pack for the first 4 years of his career and was mediocre. He signed with the Chargers and he's a top 10 CB in the league today. Gregg Williams does a good job of recognizing what defensive players can do and coaches them up to maximize their talent. I seen him do that with Denzel Ward and how he tackles for such a little guy. Everytime he did the opposite of what Williams told him Ward either injured his back (early in the season) or suffered concussions for being that small but trying to tackle high. You absolutely sign Gregg Williams if you can. As a sidenote, I think that if we do land Williams Week 1's Monday Night Football will be Jets/Browns. We play them again this season. Hope you're right... just don't think it's the slam dunk everyone else is making it seem. and why was it being floated before he was actually signed? Sounds like agents putting it out there. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: I actually like the Gase hire as I have digested it, but Williams to me seems like a bad pivot. Look at his defensive rankings the last few years, not very good. Bottom of the league stuff. Dorsey knew what he was doing in keeping Kitchens and letting Williams walk. Yes, he injected some spunk for a few games into his team, but that eventually goes away. His personality never lasts more than 3 years. Wade Phillips he is not. Would rather have a young up and comer for the defense, not a retread here. Someone like a Kris Richard, if the Jets could pry him away from the Cowboys. I think the defensive game with the new offenses has passed Williams by. Just don't see it. I read the reason they let Williams walk and hired Kitchens as HC, was that they feared a team would hire Kitchens as HC in the next couple of seasons. They wanted to keep Kitchens with Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: 32nd in DVOA in 2017, 18th in 2018... we're selling the farm for that? It only slacked when he became HC for a short wilhile and had to focus on the whole team. Before that the defense was top 10 in both pass and run. plus we wouldn’t be selling the farm for anything. We’d just be signing him lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Phillyjet said: I agree, all things being equal... I just don't think Williams is a lights out coach; I think they can do better. And I have to believe if he is more of a retread middling coach, that there are plenty of white and black coaches out there that are equivalent if not better. And unless we are the Patriots and always winning (which history would say the Jets are not), adversity will eventually strike. And fracturing a locker room with a retread who arguably is no better than Bowles on the defensive side of the ball, can have an effect. Funniest thing posted on this board in decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 33 minutes ago, Jets1958 said: Cowboys May promote Richards to DC. This morning’s news. which means they have to, or they will lose him... someone's after him for DC, would look to the teams that interviewed him, the Jets being one of them. All depends if Richards wants to stay or go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: 32nd in DVOA in 2017, 18th in 2018 Are you trying to say a team that has no wins should have had a better defense? Could it be that players don't play hard for losing teams purely because they make their money on their availability and injuring themselves in a losing season could end their career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUM-KNEE Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I agree with the Ape. Williams gets his players motivated and performing better, and thats sorely needed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dcat said: Funniest thing posted on this board in decades. I guess so, but facts are a stubborn thing... the defensive rankings don't lie, and I guess Arians thinks so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, bla bla bla said: Are you trying to say a team that has no wins should have had a better defense? Could it be that players don't play hard for losing teams purely because they make their money on their availability and injuring themselves in a losing season could end their career. All reasonable thoughts, but why is Williams not coaching in the Championship games all the time? Seems to get the DC positions on teams whose coaches are already in trouble. Would you rather have a 71 yo Wade Phillips or Gregg Williams? Phillips record and consistency speaks for itself. WIlliams is more of a crapshoot, and when it fails, it fails miserably. I fully expect if he gets the job to see some more animated players in the beginning, but when adversity strikes, we'll see if they continue playing hard for him... been down this road too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Jet Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: And here's one that might be controversial on this board... more of a locker room dynamic question. With the simmering anger over the firing of black coaches, including Wilks, the Jets go from Bowles, Rodgers, Bates, and a diverse set of coaches, to three white coaches/coordinators. Then add Maccagnan and Heimerdinger. How will that play in the locker room? Would rather take a chance on promoting a Frank Bush to coordinator, and having a great staff underneath him that setting that up. Can see that being a problem for Gase on the heals of Bowles, who was admired in that locker room. IN a modern day locker room, with all the politics around the country and in the NFL, Gase has to think about that, lest he lose the locker room when things are going bad. A Leslie Frazier type hire with an assistant head coach title would seem to be in his better interest here. So then the jets player would be racist, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark78 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 You may be impressed with the accountability the new coaches will thrust upon the players. Accountability: the new word of the week children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Who else is a good candidate? I’m just throwing names out I’m not sure with they’re available or not. Just seeing who else is a good choice Jack Del Rio Chris Hewitt Mike Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, Mark78 said: You may be impressed with the accountability the new coaches will thrust upon the players. Accountability: the new word of the week children. two words... Kotite and Mangini... these are pr slogans... may be true, but lont-time Jet fans have seen this script before. Hope you're right and the accountability police have staying-power. In the cycle of Jet coaching staffs, we've seen all the scripts... tough love coaches, coaches who the players love, blah blah. At the end of the day, I want coaches who are going to out-scheme the other teams and shove it down their throats. I think Gase has that potential on offense. I think Williams is a motivator but the effectiveness either wanes or he doesn't end up out-scheming... you're telling me there are no other candidates or position coaches that deserve their shot? Gase has HC experience now... he's not a first timer. This is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, New York Mick said: Who else is a good candidate? I’m just throwing names out I’m not sure with they’re available or not. Just seeing who else is a good choice Jack Del Rio Chris Hewitt Mike Nolan bingo.. now you're talking... and this is assuming that Richard is promoted with the Cowboys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 33 minutes ago, Phillyjet said: Hope you're right... just don't think it's the slam dunk everyone else is making it seem. and why was it being floated before he was actually signed? Sounds like agents putting it out there. We'll see. Think about it. Gregg Williams is a Superbowl winning defensive coordinator. I know it gets tarnished because of Bounty Gate, but guess what? Bounty Gate doesnt even work unless the players actually got to the quarterback. In otherwords, from a defensive outlook, Williams gets the job done. Coming back into the league and working with the Browns over the past two seasons, we seen that last year there were a ton of new faces and rookies. However this year look how all of those young defensive players stepped up, developed and have been key pieces. Meanwhile in NY all we see are constant regression of defensive players, while having a defensive minded coach at the time. That's a direct reflection of how poor Bowles and Kacy Rogers dealt with the defense. Based on history, one thing you will not see from a Gregg Williams defense is "Mo Wilkerson-like" play or a fall off like we seen with Big Cat this year. That's not happening under Williams. I can promise you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby2 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Anything that gets rid of the 3-4 should be viewed as an extreme positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillyjet Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: Think about it. Gregg Williams is a Superbowl winning defensive coordinator. I know it gets tarnished because of Bounty Gate, but guess what? Bounty Gate doesnt even work unless the players actually got to the quarterback. In otherwords, from a defensive outlook, Williams gets the job done. Coming back into the league and working with the Browns over the past two seasons, we seen that last year there were a ton of new faces and rookies. However this year look how all of those young defensive players stepped up, developed and have been key pieces. Meanwhile in NY all we see are constant regression of defensive players, while having a defensive minded coach at the time. That's a direct reflection of how poor Bowles and Kacy Rogers dealt with the defense. Based on history, one thing you will not see from a Gregg Williams defense is "Mo Wilkerson-like" play or a fall off like we seen with Big Cat this year. That's not happening under Williams. I can promise you that. I really hope you are right... definitely think there will be a short term improvement, the question I have is whether the success will be sustained. And on that, Williams' reputation does not quite match his record, particularly after BountyGate. I would love to be wrong on this one. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe the Breadman Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 All things taken into consideration I honestly believe that the organization really loves Kris Richards and is waiting on some kind of yes/no answer from him post Rams game. I think by tomorrow dinner time-is everyone's cards will be on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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