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Color me unimpressed with Gregg Williams


Phillyjet

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56 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

And here's one that might be controversial on this board... more of a locker room dynamic question.  With the simmering anger over the firing of black coaches, including Wilks, the Jets go from Bowles, Rodgers, Bates, and a diverse set of coaches, to three white coaches/coordinators.  Then add Maccagnan and Heimerdinger.  How will that play in the locker room?  Would rather take a chance on promoting a Frank Bush to coordinator, and having a great staff underneath him that setting that up.  Can see that being a problem for Gase on the heals of Bowles, who was admired in that locker room.

IN a modern day locker room, with all the politics around the country and in the NFL, Gase has to think about that, lest he lose the locker room when things are going bad.  A Leslie Frazier type hire with an assistant head coach title would seem to be in his better interest here.

I agree with you.  Diversity may be uncomfortable to talk about, and yes merit should be the only thing that matters but this is real life we are talking about.  When you are in the majority it is easy to discount it but when you are in the minority you want to feel represented.

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1 hour ago, Phillyjet said:

And here's one that might be controversial on this board... more of a locker room dynamic question.  With the simmering anger over the firing of black coaches, including Wilks, the Jets go from Bowles, Rodgers, Bates, and a diverse set of coaches, to three white coaches/coordinators.  Then add Maccagnan and Heimerdinger.  How will that play in the locker room?  Would rather take a chance on promoting a Frank Bush to coordinator, and having a great staff underneath him that setting that up.  Can see that being a problem for Gase on the heals of Bowles, who was admired in that locker room.

IN a modern day locker room, with all the politics around the country and in the NFL, Gase has to think about that, lest he lose the locker room when things are going bad.  A Leslie Frazier type hire with an assistant head coach title would seem to be in his better interest here.

How did those three white guys on the Rams sidelines and lockeroom do for the Rams last night?  McVay, Phillips and Taylor didn't seem to have a problem.  

And I would think the proof that a lockeroom needs a black look from the coaching staff might not be found in that triumvirate of Bowles, Rodgers and Bates, who shouldn't be included

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12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How did those three white guys on the Rams sidelines and lockeroom do for the Rams last night?  McVay, Phillips and Taylor didn't seem to have a problem.  

And I would think the proof that a lockeroom needs a black look from the coaching staff might not be found in that triumvirate of Bowles, Rodgers and Bates, who shouldn't be included

1) they are winning consistently;

2) Wade is the king of DCs, enough said.  Reputation matches the record

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2 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

1) they are winning consistently;

2) Wade is the king of DCs, enough said.  Reputation matches the record

The Rams have had shltty defensive games this season.  Finished in the bottom half of the league?  

Big time mistake is to look only at the numbers, not take into account more than those numbers or look into why they are what they are.  you're completely wrong about Williams 

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1 hour ago, Phillyjet said:

I actually like the Gase hire as I have digested it, but Williams to me seems like a bad pivot.  Look at his defensive rankings the last few years, not very good.   Bottom of the league stuff.  Dorsey knew what he was doing in keeping Kitchens and letting Williams walk.  Yes, he injected some spunk for a few games into his team, but that eventually goes away.  His personality never lasts more than 3 years.  Wade Phillips he is not.  Would rather have a young up and comer for the defense, not a retread here.  Someone like a Kris Richard, if the Jets could pry him away from the Cowboys.  I think the defensive game with the new offenses has passed Williams by.  Just don't see it.

You don't like williams because of his rankings, you like gase.  no comprendre

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2 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

I actually like the Gase hire as I have digested it, but Williams to me seems like a bad pivot.  Look at his defensive rankings the last few years, not very good.   Bottom of the league stuff.  Dorsey knew what he was doing in keeping Kitchens and letting Williams walk.  Yes, he injected some spunk for a few games into his team, but that eventually goes away.  His personality never lasts more than 3 years.  Wade Phillips he is not.  Would rather have a young up and comer for the defense, not a retread here.  Someone like a Kris Richard, if the Jets could pry him away from the Cowboys.  I think the defensive game with the new offenses has passed Williams by.  Just don't see it.

This is just bad info. Bottom of the league stuff - really? Everywhere he's gone he's improved the D. Plus, Trumaine Johnson had his best years under him. It's a no brainer IMO.

 

Titans: 18th to 16th

Redskins: 24th to 4th

Saints: 26th to 17th

Rams: 11th to 9th

Browns: 30th to 12th

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1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

 

That about sums him up.  He is a fiery guy he doesn't hold back and the way the Browns turned it around playing under his interim title should be an indicator the players responded well to him.  I think he's worth the shot. 

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2 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

I actually like the Gase hire as I have digested it, but Williams to me seems like a bad pivot.  Look at his defensive rankings the last few years, not very good.   Bottom of the league stuff.  Dorsey knew what he was doing in keeping Kitchens and letting Williams walk.  Yes, he injected some spunk for a few games into his team, but that eventually goes away.  His personality never lasts more than 3 years.  Wade Phillips he is not.  Would rather have a young up and comer for the defense, not a retread here.  Someone like a Kris Richard, if the Jets could pry him away from the Cowboys.  I think the defensive game with the new offenses has passed Williams by.  Just don't see it.

You are so right!!

Thank God someone saw all this!!

Maybe if we are lucky, I mean real lucky, then we can swoop in and get the likes of Kacey Rogers back in here before another team gobbles him right up!

i mean why hire coaches that another team might actually want!!

 

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1 hour ago, Joe the Breadman said:

All things taken into consideration I honestly believe that the organization really loves Kris Richards and is waiting on some kind of yes/no answer from him post Rams game.

I think by tomorrow dinner time-is everyone's cards will be on the table.

Damn yo right

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Except that we don't know that he's dumping the 3-4 yet.  

Or that it's even a problem

Of course it is a problem.

We've ran a 3-4 for 15 years without a competent OLB. The whole key to a good 3-4.

Either get one or ditch the scheme. You can't have both.

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2 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

And here's one that might be controversial on this board... more of a locker room dynamic question.  With the simmering anger over the firing of black coaches, including Wilks, the Jets go from Bowles, Rodgers, Bates, and a diverse set of coaches, to three white coaches/coordinators.  Then add Maccagnan and Heimerdinger.  How will that play in the locker room?  Would rather take a chance on promoting a Frank Bush to coordinator, and having a great staff underneath him that setting that up.  Can see that being a problem for Gase on the heals of Bowles, who was admired in that locker room.

IN a modern day locker room, with all the politics around the country and in the NFL, Gase has to think about that, lest he lose the locker room when things are going bad.  A Leslie Frazier type hire with an assistant head coach title would seem to be in his better interest here.

You really think NFL players care about how many black coaches there are in the league or in their locker room? They don't. They care about two things: money and winning. 

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5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

And he might be a very good choice.  If Williams falls through, that's who I'd want. But the rumor is he will be promoted to Cowboys DC.  Bidding war?

He would be ideal because they you the beginning of a process of developing a competent staff that has a chance for some continuity.  

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7 minutes ago, Ruby2 said:

Of course it is a problem.

We've ran a 3-4 for 15 years without a competent OLB. The whole key to a good 3-4.

Either get one or ditch the scheme. You can't have both.

So the answer is to dump a bunch of 3-4 players, like Anderson and switch to a 4-3 as opposed to getting one competent OLB?  

Or how about just getting a OLB to play competently.  That could be the better options.

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

So the answer is to dump a bunch of 3-4 players, like Anderson and switch to a 4-3 as opposed to getting one competent OLB?  

Or how about just getting a OLB to play competently.

I don't mind dumping all our 3-4 players because they aren't very good in the 3-4.

The 3-4 does have a higher ceiling than the 4-3, just it's floor is much much lower. We havent been able to pull it off for a long time.

It's time to try something easier, even if the ceiling isn't as high.

I also beieve Anderson is a FA? But could be mistaken.

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4 minutes ago, Ruby2 said:

I don't mind dumping all our 3-4 players because they aren't very good in the 3-4.

The 3-4 does have a higher ceiling than the 4-3, just it's floor is much much lower. We havent been able to pull it off for a long time.

It's time to try something easier, even if the ceiling isn't as high.

I also beieve Anderson is a FA? But could be mistaken.

Anderson is a FA.  I think if we keep the 3-4 they'll try to resign him.  If we move to the 4-3 I would think he's gone.  

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3 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

I actually like the Gase hire as I have digested it, but Williams to me seems like a bad pivot.  Look at his defensive rankings the last few years, not very good.   Bottom of the league stuff.  Dorsey knew what he was doing in keeping Kitchens and letting Williams walk.  Yes, he injected some spunk for a few games into his team, but that eventually goes away.  His personality never lasts more than 3 years.  Wade Phillips he is not.  Would rather have a young up and comer for the defense, not a retread here.  Someone like a Kris Richard, if the Jets could pry him away from the Cowboys.  I think the defensive game with the new offenses has passed Williams by.  Just don't see it.

So just to be clear, Gase's bottom of the league Offenses are ok, you like that hire.  Because something something young.

But Williams, who by every metric is a better D-Co than Gase is a Head Coach, is a bad idea.  Because something something old and the run pass option something.

Got it.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

So just to be clear, Gase's bottom of the league Offenses are ok, you like that hire.  Because something something young.

But Williams, who by every metric is a better D-Co than Gase is a Head Coach, is a bad idea.  Because something something old and the run pass option something.

Got it.

didn't have the QB... I am fine with Gase, but not without risk.  We'll know if Gase has got it pretty quickly.

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And here's one that might be controversial on this board... more of a locker room dynamic question.  With the simmering anger over the firing of black coaches, including Wilks, the Jets go from Bowles, Rodgers, Bates, and a diverse set of coaches, to three white coaches/coordinators.  Then add Maccagnan and Heimerdinger.  How will that play in the locker room?  Would rather take a chance on promoting a Frank Bush to coordinator, and having a great staff underneath him that setting that up.  Can see that being a problem for Gase on the heals of Bowles, who was admired in that locker room.
IN a modern day locker room, with all the politics around the country and in the NFL, Gase has to think about that, lest he lose the locker room when things are going bad.  A Leslie Frazier type hire with an assistant head coach title would seem to be in his better interest here.

No ... just no.


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And at first I wasn't sure if I liked the idea of Gase+Williams because of their similarly strong and intense personalities, but I feel like that might actually be a good thing.  Because, in that scenario, both sides of the football are on the same page and getting the same kind of coaching.  

Without having been in an NFL locker room, I wonder if it's a "negative" when you try and balance the styles out.  If you have the fiery, loud coach on one side and go with the more quiet, stoic "leadership" on the other side, I think maybe you're sending the team mixed messages about how you expect to play and present yourself, and that's when you get the offense/defense divide, especially when one side isn't producing like the other.

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2 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

I guess so, but facts are a stubborn thing... the defensive rankings don't lie,  and I guess Arians thinks so too. 

I suspect Bruce Arians caught a bad case of nostalgia.  Truth is that with the exception of the 2013 season,  Todd Bowles defenses  weren't exactly superior,  Also,  Arians best season came after Bowles left for the Jets. Add to that the four years of the " Bowles Miracle" in New York, a case can easily be made that the "Modern Defense" has passed Bowles by, not Williams.  Revisionist history is a funny thing, isn't it?  P.S.  The racial "tint" you put in the first post was weak,  Who thinks like that?  Sad.  Glad you backed off it.

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3 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

 And fracturing a locker room with a retread who arguably is no better than Bowles on the defensive side of the ball, can have an effect. 

Comparing Williams to Bowles is like comparing General Patton to Edith (Archie Bunkers wife). Stifle already.

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I'm in favor of the Williams hire.  I definitely like the idea of Gase staying focused on the offense while letting Williams handle the defense.  The in your face leadership style also plays into it as we move on from Club Bowles. 

Does anyone know if he had any previous connection to Macc?  Just trying to sort out whose idea it was to hire him.

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Williams is the type of coach the Jets need in my opinion compliments Gases personality. After seeing Bowles surrounding himself with Coaches that pose no challenge to him and were at best incompetent this is refreshing. If Williams is not the hire I Hope they’ll find a Coach with similar capabilities. A coach capable of commanding the D, compliment Gases personality and challenge him.

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