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New York Jets & Gregg Williams: Dissecting the 3-4 to 4-3 transition


GREENBEAN

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It’s not official. Rumors of a certain NFL team toying with the idea of offering him a head-coaching role are floating in the atmosphere.

It’s understandable. He’s a fiery defensive leader, a former head coach who doesn’t take much lip from anybody. He’s also a leader whose 4-3 scheme usually showcases the two edges as the star of the show (see Myles Garrett in Cleveland).

For now, forget scheme. Forget tendency. Forget individual attentiveness. The first order of business if figuring out the transition. This organization has run the 3-4 since Herman Edwards’s last day as sideline boss.

3-4 under Bowles

  • DT: Leonard Williams
  • DT: Henry Anderson/Nathan Shepherd
  • NT: Mike Pennell/Steve McLendon
  • OLB/EDGE: Jordan Jenkins
  • ILB: Avery Williamson
  • ILB: Darron Lee
  • OLB/EDGE: Brandon Copeland/Frankie Luvu

You already know the look. The Jets box in 2018 was rather unspectacular. They couldn’t stop the run despite Todd Bowles’s usual stubbornness in that area while deploying All-Pro Jamal Adams as that eighth man in the box.

Finishing 25th in the NFL (surrendering 126.3 yards per game on the ground), the timing is perfect to blow it up.

 

But why didn’t it work?

Well, the personnel is the main reason. Of course the 3-4 works when the players are right. Still, there are two glaring individuals who’d thrive in the 4-3 base as opposed to the 3-4.

Darron Lee is a prototypical 4-3 WILL. Coming in as one of the lightest linebackers in the league, playing the inside of a 3-4 is tough. As the clear weakside guy in a 4-3, his freedom to roam will be propelled by miles.

More importantly, Leonard Williams will find glory as a true 3-technique defensive tackle. This can be accomplished on a regular basis in Gregg Williams’s scheme as opposed to Bowles’s.

4-3 under Williams (Max Potential)

  • DE/EDGE: TBD
  • DT (3-technique): Leonard Williams
  • DT (NT-type): TBD
  • DE/EDGE: TBD
  • SAM: Avery Williamson
  • MIKE: TBD
  • WILL: Darron Lee

Admittedly, it’s not a great look having just three players fill out the max potential front seven. Bad look or not, it’s the truth.

Jordan Jenkins is not a stud edge player in the NFL. He’s an excellent run-support edge and a guy who works much better as a bigger, stronger 3-4 outside linebacker. He can remain with the team for the final season of his rookie deal, but ideally as that third or fourth defensive end and a player who can fill in at the SAM in a pinch.

 

 

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Just now, k-met57 said:

 


Zac Taylor I believe...but yeah...not official

 

Right. That really could be the hold up.  Cincy is known for being a little more tame in their thinking and Williams seems a bit out of character for them, but he's gotta be more qualified than friggin zac tYLOR NO? 

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31 minutes ago, Jetpain said:

Why would you not have Williamson as the middle LB and Jenkins as the strong side LB?   And mclendon or Pennel can't be a DT?

Agreed. Currently it can look like below:

LDE=Copeland

LDT=Pennel

RDT=Williams(3 Technique)

RDE=Luvu (Edge)

SAM=Jenkins(SSLB)

MIKE(MLB)=Williamson

WILL=Lee(WSLB)

Backups at DT=Anderson and Fatusi and TBD

Backups at DE=TBD(Edge from FA/draft)

Backups at MLB=Hewitt

Backups at OLB=TBD(from FA/draft)

The front 7 would even be better against the run and pass in the 4-3 even with the current players let alone more coming in from FA/draft.

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Either play Jenkins or trade him and get a pick in return. Just benching him for 1 year, and then letting him go for nothing, makes little/no sense. He's young and cheap and coming off a productive season. He'll have some value.

Ditto outbidding everyone to re-sign Anderson and then benching him, too.

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If Cincy and Miami have to wait on Taylor and Flores to officially accept their jobs then I'm not surprised if Williams hangs out there for a little while. What if Flores pulls a McDaniels and backs out?  Maybe Miami pivots to Williams?

Quite honestly, I don't think Gregg Williams is a particularly great choice for HC, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if he's somebody's backup plan.

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40 minutes ago, The Walrus said:

I'll take Gregg Williams any day but people may need to get used to the idea we may not have him very long.

disagree. i think at this point in his career people are actually settling on the fact that he rubs too many people the wrong way to be a HC...although him and Gase may kill each other...in which case you may be right. Anyhow, i'd be surprised if guys like Williams, Wade Phillips, etc... were HC ever again.

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If we transition to a 4-3 it could take two years but I'd think we could muddle around with it next year with some guys in less than ideal positions.

Are we saying that Avery Williamson couldn't play a season at MLB and Jordan Jenkins at the Strongside?  Again, not great, but I would think we could survive with that.

The quickest way to jumpstart the whole transition would be to draft a 4-3 down DE.  A guy like Clelin Ferrell would be great.

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GLAD to see this thread up. I was going to create one myself a few days ago to cover this issue regarding our current roster and how material it is to our offseason - FA acquisitions & possible "mis-fits" in a new 4-3 scheme that can be relayed into draft capital. 

An earlier post hit the nail on the head about either Jenkins playing with his hand in the dirt OR just trade him for a draft pick for the aforementioned reasons to a 3-4 (steelers?). 

IF there is a philosophical shift to an attacking 4-3, then the Jets would FINALLY OPTIMIZE the natural talents of Leo & Lee to EXCEL on the field: the former as a 3-Tech and the latter as an OLB. We have the bodies at DT (Shepard, Pennel, Fatfukusai) to rotate and take on the run so Leo can just shoot to the QB. If not happy w/that current lot, Danny Shelton (NE 340 lbs. DT) could be signed in FA. The #3 pick (I predict Bosa falls to us) would get us the EDGE DE to compliment whichever 4-3DE FA the Jets pluck (Cameron Wake for 1yr? Zigendorf Ansah?) during the spring. Henry Anderson is a GONER since he's a 3-4 and WHY we got him so cheap from Indy who was switching TO a 4-3 this past year. 

 

Would Jets Nation be willing to take on Jason Varrett (SD CB -5'9" but COVERS WHEN healthy) as a #2 via FA? I think he's the best NFL Starting CB WHEN HEALTHY. I'd do it, but there are other options: Dennard from Cincy. 

The REAL benefit of switching to the 4-3, IMO, is that Leo&Lee could & SHOULD FINALLY shine in a front that is more in tune with their natural physical talents AND limits. Thus, giving the Jets a better sample to see if those two '15 & '16 draft picks are WORTH extending or even TRADING if need be. 

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1 hour ago, Jetpain said:

Why would you not have Williamson as the middle LB and Jenkins as the strong side LB?   And mclendon or Pennel can't be a DT?

Not ideal - in FA ALONE it can be upgraded, but it IS do-able if need be. I don't think Mac has enough skin to leave ANY position on this roster weak: either in depth, talent, or "name rec" with $100M in cap space AND the #3 overall pick plus 2 3rd rounders. 

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2 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

image.thumb.png.7f42670a785243b6f07d6acf8f464dd6.png

 

It’s not official. Rumors of a certain NFL team toying with the idea of offering him a head-coaching role are floating in the atmosphere.

It’s understandable. He’s a fiery defensive leader, a former head coach who doesn’t take much lip from anybody. He’s also a leader whose 4-3 scheme usually showcases the two edges as the star of the show (see Myles Garrett in Cleveland).

For now, forget scheme. Forget tendency. Forget individual attentiveness. The first order of business if figuring out the transition. This organization has run the 3-4 since Herman Edwards’s last day as sideline boss.

3-4 under Bowles

  • DT: Leonard Williams
  • DT: Henry Anderson/Nathan Shepherd
  • NT: Mike Pennell/Steve McLendon
  • OLB/EDGE: Jordan Jenkins
  • ILB: Avery Williamson
  • ILB: Darron Lee
  • OLB/EDGE: Brandon Copeland/Frankie Luvu

You already know the look. The Jets box in 2018 was rather unspectacular. They couldn’t stop the run despite Todd Bowles’s usual stubbornness in that area while deploying All-Pro Jamal Adams as that eighth man in the box.

Finishing 25th in the NFL (surrendering 126.3 yards per game on the ground), the timing is perfect to blow it up.

 

But why didn’t it work?

Well, the personnel is the main reason. Of course the 3-4 works when the players are right. Still, there are two glaring individuals who’d thrive in the 4-3 base as opposed to the 3-4.

Darron Lee is a prototypical 4-3 WILL. Coming in as one of the lightest linebackers in the league, playing the inside of a 3-4 is tough. As the clear weakside guy in a 4-3, his freedom to roam will be propelled by miles.

More importantly, Leonard Williams will find glory as a true 3-technique defensive tackle. This can be accomplished on a regular basis in Gregg Williams’s scheme as opposed to Bowles’s.

4-3 under Williams (Max Potential)

  • DE/EDGE: TBD
  • DT (3-technique): Leonard Williams
  • DT (NT-type): TBD
  • DE/EDGE: TBD
  • SAM: Avery Williamson
  • MIKE: TBD
  • WILL: Darron Lee

Admittedly, it’s not a great look having just three players fill out the max potential front seven. Bad look or not, it’s the truth.

Jordan Jenkins is not a stud edge player in the NFL. He’s an excellent run-support edge and a guy who works much better as a bigger, stronger 3-4 outside linebacker. He can remain with the team for the final season of his rookie deal, but ideally as that third or fourth defensive end and a player who can fill in at the SAM in a pinch.

 

 

Jordan Jenkins is one of our very rare draft hits. He plays hard and with thump and he hes on of our top pass rushers. You keep that kid. 

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3 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

Calvin Pace played the 4-3 fine so did John Abraham...i don't think you can generalize these things. he is 260 not 290.

Jenkins CAN play 4-3 DE, but it's NOT ideal to his natural talents. I'm pretty sure he played OLB in a 3-4 @ UG, so he had value to us (and has shown it) as plug&play draft pick - he's 3 year starter on a rookie contract. He SHOULD be traded if we switch to a 4-3, for his career sake and for the Jets to possibly acquire a respectable draft pick in return. 

John Abraham played 3-4 OLB for us in 2000, and was good. BUT when the Jets switched to a 4-3 under Herm, Abe was a TERROR in 2001 & 2002! That scheme fitted him, and he it, better. 

Leo & Lee will transcend the Jets defense in a 4-3, IMO. 

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3 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Jordan Jenkins is one of our very rare draft hits. He plays hard and with thump and he hes on of our top pass rushers. You keep that kid. 

NOT in a 4-3. I agree with ALL you state, but a draft pick to surround more Offensive talent (WR, RB, OLine) around Darnold takes priority and make Jenkins expendable. 

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5 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Jordan Jenkins is one of our very rare draft hits. He plays hard and with thump and he hes on of our top pass rushers. You keep that kid. 

I actually agree. He seems versatile. Coming out it was stated that Pass Rushing was not a strength of his. He'll never break the sack record but he's shown he can have some impact there.  I believe he could do whatever we wanted him to. 

I will say Demario Davis made some nice plays today. Another solid player Bowles didn't think should be retained.

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I think we'd have at least 4 of the 7 pieces in place for a 4-3....and the others could simply be oval pegs in round holes.  Not perfect fits but not squares either.  The #3 pick in the Draft could really help jumpstart the transition with a DE.  We could also look for another big-bodied "clogger" to play NT somewhere in the later rounds (5-7).

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1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

Calvin Pace played the 4-3 fine so did John Abraham...i don't think you can generalize these things. he is 260 not 290.

Not exactly sure what you’re trying to argue here....both Pace and Abraham put their hand in the dirt when they played a 4-3....which is exactly what Jenkins would do 

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Not exactly sure what you’re trying to argue here....both Pace and Abraham put their hand in the dirt when they played a 4-3....which is exactly what Jenkins would do 


That we don’t need to dump our more consistent defender besides Adams if we switch. It’s asinine to suggest otherwise.
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6 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

"Rumors of a certain NFL team toying with the idea of offering him a head-coaching role" Where did you hear that from all the head coaching openings have been filled.

Cincy and Miami are still open. The job fillers are still only rumored at this point .

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I dont get it with Gregg Williams. Miami has chosen Brian Flores and the Bengals have chosen Zac Taylor as their head coaches.  He is not getting hired for either job. I think he is really wondering about working with Gase. Two nut jobs under the same roof.  It would be so NYJ for him to bail and some former Gase blow hole assistant gets the Jets DC job.

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