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Still Ripping Gase? Maybe it's Time for Another Look!!


Charlie Brown
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1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

I Posted this in a prior thread but @Dcat very kindly encouraged me to start a new thread on it......

So blame him :) 

Indeed I ripped into Gase but what about this........................................

Walter Football loves the hire.


http://walterfootball.com/coachfirehire.php


Jets hire HC Adam Gase: A+ Grade 
This is the best hire of this offseason. Adam Gase, once called the "next Bill Belichick" by Dolphins owner Stephen Ross, coached two of three seasons in Miami with his starting quarterback healthy. In those two seasons, Gase took the Dolphins took the playoffs once and had them in postseason contention in the other before Ryan Tannehill got banged up during a victory against the Patriots and was never the same after that. Tannehill, by the way, was one of the worst starters at his position in the NFL. It was quite amazing and impressive that Gase was able to keep the Dolphins in contention despite not having a viable quarterback. 

This won't be a problem with the Jets. Gase will be able to coach Sam Darnold. This seems like a great fit. Gase has coached up bad quarterbacks to play well, and average quarterbacks to perform on a somewhat high level. 

Gase will be able to help Darnold take the next step. This is a fantastic hire, fully worthy of an A+.

I really hope this comes true but when I opened the link I see them giving Tampa an “A” for hiring Todd Bowles.  So it looks like serious serious grade inflation.  He lauds the work Bowles did in AZ, but it was done with a unit of virtually ALL All Pros.  I predict Tampa will have a “Bottom 3rd” D next year if they’re not able to stock it with pro bowlers.

Granted Gase gets way more of a pass working with terrible QBs in Miami.  I think Darnold is going to make Gase look like a genius, or any other guy who would have become HC.  Putting that aside I’m glad that Gase is way smarter than the last coach, that won’t be debatable.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Walter Football. lol.

 

 Hey, what’s that 7th grader whose article [mention=9189]Pac[/mention] used in a pro-Rex rant up to these days? He’s gotta be out of High School by now. I’d like to get his thoughts on the Gase hire.

Aidan Mackie

depositphotos_52920351-stock-photo-occup

 

(That's not actually him, but that picture of Aidan disappeared off the internet, and the one above pretty much sums up what he looked like.)

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35 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I'm obviously not that into WalterFootball, I think it's an over-rated site.  And, they gave the Bowles hiring in Tampa an A as well, which really hurts the credibility lol.  

Aside from that, I don't think it's a bad hire.  It's a little bit like the draft with the Knicks/Jets now where anyone picked has to be booed.  Any coach hired has to be a failure at first, and then go from there.  

The move makes sense in some ways because it does focus on the offense, and Gase is much more of a no-nonsense guy than Bowles.  2 HUGE necessities pretty much every fan thought we needed.  I preferred Kingsbury, but I don't think Gase is this horrible hire that will never thrive.  

I spent a bit of time looking at Dolphins tape this year just to see the system.  My thoughts:

- The "system" itself is nothing magical, and definitely has some flaws.  It suffers a bit from Shoetenheimer-ism where it almost tries too hard to be complicated.  A few times (in 2 games that I looked at), the receivers route concept didn't make sense to me.  There was one play, where they ran play action, against a linebacker in the A gap (and another linebacker close by).  The linebacker bit, but there weren't any routes behind them to take advantage of it.  The routes all went long or outside.  I don't understand why there is play action up the middle, when the perceived reaction you want (linebackers to step up) doesn't have any benefit.  

- A major part of the problem is Tannehill doesn't process the field nearly as quick as a veteran QB, nor does he make the right reads.  On a 3 and 11 or 12 against the Pats, they run a bubble screen to Albert Wilson, but I have no idea why.  They motion a TE to protect the backside, but I don't understand why they would need extra protection on a quick bubble screen.  It's clearly a play where they were supposed to pick the other side, which had a one on one match-up, but Tannehill picked this particular call, even though it didn't make sense.  2 receivers to the side vs. 2 corner backs, plus a safety before the first down marker, and a linebacker to the inside.  I'm not quite sure why Tannehill expected a better outcome than the 5 yards gained.  On other occasions, you see him make the wrong read and miss wide open opportunities.  

-The talent level for the Dolphins is atrocious.  Kenny Stills was essentially Robby Anderson, but the QBs missed deep throws constantly (as we saw them miss against the Jets).  Amendola is clearly on the downside, and Parker was just absent most of the year.  I'm not sure why.  Wilson looked really good at times, but he had his injury.  This is not a team that you put an average QB on, and assume they are a playoff team.  

I've read that they are basically tanking the 2019 season at this point, and it makes sense.  They aren't going to compete with this roster, so it's hard to judge Gase the coach on it.  Judge Gase the GM, because some of these moves did not pan out.  

And they still won 7 games and we won 4. Go figure 🤷🏻‍♂️

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8 minutes ago, BigO said:

And they still won 7 games and we won 4. Go figure 🤷🏻‍♂️

I think the issue with us, at least dealt with horrible coaching combined with an adjustment period for Darnold.  

He wasn't on the same page with Anderson at the start of the year, and clearly favored Enunwa.  Darnold seemed much better after sitting, but by then it was too late to do anything with the season.  

Although I don't think it can be stressed enough how bad of a coach Bowles was here.  I'm not saying Gase is a stud coach, but pretty much one of "Ask the Audience" polls that used to be on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" would be more successful than Bowles.  

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1 hour ago, win4ever said:

I'm obviously not that into WalterFootball, I think it's an over-rated site.  And, they gave the Bowles hiring in Tampa an A as well, which really hurts the credibility lol.  

Aside from that, I don't think it's a bad hire.  It's a little bit like the draft with the Knicks/Jets now where anyone picked has to be booed.  Any coach hired has to be a failure at first, and then go from there.  

The move makes sense in some ways because it does focus on the offense, and Gase is much more of a no-nonsense guy than Bowles.  2 HUGE necessities pretty much every fan thought we needed.  I preferred Kingsbury, but I don't think Gase is this horrible hire that will never thrive.  

I spent a bit of time looking at Dolphins tape this year just to see the system.  My thoughts:

- The "system" itself is nothing magical, and definitely has some flaws.  It suffers a bit from Shoetenheimer-ism where it almost tries too hard to be complicated.  A few times (in 2 games that I looked at), the receivers route concept didn't make sense to me.  There was one play, where they ran play action, against a linebacker in the A gap (and another linebacker close by).  The linebacker bit, but there weren't any routes behind them to take advantage of it.  The routes all went long or outside.  I don't understand why there is play action up the middle, when the perceived reaction you want (linebackers to step up) doesn't have any benefit.  

- A major part of the problem is Tannehill doesn't process the field nearly as quick as a veteran QB, nor does he make the right reads.  On a 3 and 11 or 12 against the Pats, they run a bubble screen to Albert Wilson, but I have no idea why.  They motion a TE to protect the backside, but I don't understand why they would need extra protection on a quick bubble screen.  It's clearly a play where they were supposed to pick the other side, which had a one on one match-up, but Tannehill picked this particular call, even though it didn't make sense.  2 receivers to the side vs. 2 corner backs, plus a safety before the first down marker, and a linebacker to the inside.  I'm not quite sure why Tannehill expected a better outcome than the 5 yards gained.  On other occasions, you see him make the wrong read and miss wide open opportunities.  

-The talent level for the Dolphins is atrocious.  Kenny Stills was essentially Robby Anderson, but the QBs missed deep throws constantly (as we saw them miss against the Jets).  Amendola is clearly on the downside, and Parker was just absent most of the year.  I'm not sure why.  Wilson looked really good at times, but he had his injury.  This is not a team that you put an average QB on, and assume they are a playoff team.  

I've read that they are basically tanking the 2019 season at this point, and it makes sense.  They aren't going to compete with this roster, so it's hard to judge Gase the coach on it.  Judge Gase the GM, because some of these moves did not pan out.  

Nice post. FWIW Walter Football, whether you like it or not, is never usually especIally complimentary about the Jets. 

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3 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Nice post. FWIW Walter Football, whether you like it or not, is never usually especIally complimentary about the Jets. 

I love the way the media wants to love TB, and jumps on this hiring like it is a gold star hire.   Did anybody watch our D lose game after game with 4th quarter Keystone Kop antics?  They played D like their pubic hair was on fire.

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7 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

. Tannehill, by the way, was one of the worst starters at his position in the NFL. 

 

7 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

. Gase has coached up bad quarterbacks to play well, and average quarterbacks to perform on a somewhat high level. 

These statements are contradictory. Or perhaps more accurately,  a tautology.  If Gase coached him up, he wouldn’t be one of the worst starters. Either he did or he didn’t. And he was or he wasn’t. 

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6 hours ago, win4ever said:

I'm obviously not that into WalterFootball, I think it's an over-rated site.  And, they gave the Bowles hiring in Tampa an A as well, which really hurts the credibility lol.  

Aside from that, I don't think it's a bad hire.  It's a little bit like the draft with the Knicks/Jets now where anyone picked has to be booed.  Any coach hired has to be a failure at first, and then go from there.  

The move makes sense in some ways because it does focus on the offense, and Gase is much more of a no-nonsense guy than Bowles.  2 HUGE necessities pretty much every fan thought we needed.  I preferred Kingsbury, but I don't think Gase is this horrible hire that will never thrive.  

 

Great Post!!

I cut out some becuase I wanted to focus on the following:

Side bar.......

I am also asking @DJF71 this question as well since he was so down on McCarthy and despite his problems with Rogers would have been one of his biggest pluses...

Do you think that Gase's emblematic personality precludes the Jets from acquiring problematic players like Antonio Brown and Levron Bell?

If Gase has trouble directing himself how can he manage high strung folks who the Jets might need to win?

Just  questions.....................

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Here is why Adam Gase is the Jets coach. When CJ and Mac asked the candidates who they were considering as Coordinators and coaches, they answered:

Mac: I was thinking Mike Pettine for DC, or maybe I'll dig up Dom Capers.

Rhule: I think my Baylor staff will do just fine in the NFL.

Gase: What do you guys think? Maybe Vance Joseph, Gregg Williams, or Chuck Pagano? Really, whoever you want is fine with me, I just want the chance to coach a team with a QB with an A+ skillset.

And, just so we are clear, I wanted McCarthy, but have come around to the belief that they actually made the right call with Gase. If we hired McCarthy, everything would be about him.  While I think Rodgers is an A-hole, the fact is the guy is a HOF'r. What HC wouldn't figure out a way to get along with their HOF QB? You don't tell your HOF QB that it is my way or the highway. Once a QB gets to that level it is a partnership. this is a huge black mark on McCarthy's record. Is it because McCarthy has an even bigger ego than Rodgers?

Gase is a nutjob. He wants to win. He seems to care little about fame. By his conduct it is clear he does not give a $hit about what people think of him.  And everyone says he is super smart. For Gates, this is all about making Darnold a HOF QB. Even if Gates doesn't succeed as coach, having Darnold trained by a guy with Gase's knowledge and work ethic is not a bad thing.

CJ said it going in and he stayed true to it. This was all about Darnold. And the HC who is all about Darnold is Gase.

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9 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Here is why Adam Gase is the Jets coach. When CJ and Mac asked the candidates who they were considering as Coordinators and coaches, they answered:

Mac: I was thinking Mike Pettine for DC, or maybe I'll dig up Dom Capers.

Rhule: I think my Baylor staff will do just fine in the NFL.

Gase: What do you guys think? Maybe Vance Joseph, Gregg Williams, or Chuck Pagano? Really, whoever you want is fine with me, I just want the chance to coach a team with a QB with an A+ skillset.

And, just so we are clear, I wanted McCarthy, but have come around to the belief that they actually made the right call with Gase. If we hired McCarthy, everything would be about him.  While I think Rodgers is an A-hole, the fact is the guy is a HOF'r. What HC wouldn't figure out a way to get along with their HOF QB? You don't tell your HOF QB that it is my way or the highway. Once a QB gets to that level it is a partnership. this is a huge black mark on McCarthy's record. Is it because McCarthy has an even bigger ego than Rodgers?

Gase is a nutjob. He wants to win. He seems to care little about fame. By his conduct it is clear he does not give a $hit about what people think of him.  And everyone says he is super smart. For Gates, this is all about making Darnold a HOF QB. Even if Gates doesn't succeed as coach, having Darnold trained by a guy with Gase's knowledge and work ethic is not a bad thing.

CJ said it going in and he stayed true to it. This was all about Darnold. And the HC who is all about Darnold is Gase.

Sonny assuming what you say is correct I asked this question above.

What do you think?

Do you think that Gase's emblematic personality precludes the Jets from acquiring problematic players like Antonio Brown and Levron Bell?

If Gase has trouble directing himself how can he manage high strung folks who the Jets might need to win?

 

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8 hours ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

He quotes Stephen Ross as credible when he says he was going to be the next Belicheck then rips Ross and calls him a dummy. I’m hoping for the best here but this guy comes across like a clown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And then Ross has had enough and fires him three years later.

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9 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

I Posted this in a prior thread but @Dcat very kindly encouraged me to start a new thread on it......

So blame him :) 

Indeed I ripped into Gase but what about this........................................

Walter Football loves the hire.


http://walterfootball.com/coachfirehire.php


Jets hire HC Adam Gase: A+ Grade 
This is the best hire of this offseason. Adam Gase, once called the "next Bill Belichick" by Dolphins owner Stephen Ross, coached two of three seasons in Miami with his starting quarterback healthy. In those two seasons, Gase took the Dolphins took the playoffs once and had them in postseason contention in the other before Ryan Tannehill got banged up during a victory against the Patriots and was never the same after that. Tannehill, by the way, was one of the worst starters at his position in the NFL. It was quite amazing and impressive that Gase was able to keep the Dolphins in contention despite not having a viable quarterback. 

This won't be a problem with the Jets. Gase will be able to coach Sam Darnold. This seems like a great fit. Gase has coached up bad quarterbacks to play well, and average quarterbacks to perform on a somewhat high level. 

Gase will be able to help Darnold take the next step. This is a fantastic hire, fully worthy of an A+.

+Rep Farming, are we? :-k :-D

Love you Charlie Brown, but you do this every cycle.  

Let me remind you of your opinion of the massive failure that was Coach Bowles:

Quote

Posted February 6, 2015
I agree
And I honestly think by some anti Jet magic we lucked into the best HC candidate on Bowles...
Quinn was my first choice but after seeing Bowles and his past I honestly now think Bowles was the superior candidate

Quote

Posted February 4, 2015
Beerfish thank you so much for the articles and particularly the one on Coach Bowles!
I think that the articles speak for themselves and that the main point is we no longer have coaches who are slaves to a system and will try and put their players in the best position to succeed. And as much as Rex was loved that was not something he was always very good at.
So we will see, but I am extremely hopeful about where we are headed.

Quote

Posted January 13, 2015
Thank you .....
And if we get Bowles we would finally be getting it right for a change!!!

Quote

Posted January 13, 2015
I was high on Quinn but in truth like others said I am actually higher on Bowles after I read about his defense and how he fits players in according to their strengths as opposed to just his blitzing schemes...


You read an article, now you're onboard.  Just like you did with Bowles.

Think for yourself my friend.  You don't need an article to tell you what to think.

And articles always talk up the new guy.  Always.  Doesn't mean a thing.

 

We all do it, we all want to "buy in" when a move goes a different way than we hoped, so I get it.  

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11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

+Rep Farming, are we? :-k :-D

Love you Charlie Brown, but you do this every cycle.  

Let me remind you of your opinion of the massive failure that was Coach Bowles:


You read an article, now you're onboard.  Just like you did with Bowles.

Think for yourself my friend.  You don't need an article to tell you what to think.

And articles always talk up the new guy.  Always.  Doesn't mean a thing.

And no one was a bigger fan of the Flim Flam BBQ man Hermie the horrible then CB..=D>

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6 hours ago, DJF71 said:

If Gase had never coached the Dolphins, everyone would be excited about this hire.  He was a really hot HC candidate 3 years ago.  He went to a dysfunctional organization with no QB and still beat our sh*tty organization 5 out of 6 times.  I will be excited if he gets Gregg Williams as his DC.  Always good for a HC to have other coaches that have HC experience on the staff.  Gase was able to help coach Tim F'n Tebow to an 8-5 record with a playoff win.  A broken down Peyton Manning to a record setting season and Jay Cutler to his best season of his career.  This is the first time he has had a young franchise QB.  I'm still not super excited, but he is 100% better for Sam than Bates and Bowles.  

did the jets interview gase when before they hired bowles?  i remember he was a hot prospect at the time.

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34 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Sonny assuming what you say is correct I asked this question above.

What do you think?

Do you think that Gase's emblematic personality precludes the Jets from acquiring problematic players like Antonio Brown and Levron Bell?

If Gase has trouble directing himself how can he manage high strung folks who the Jets might need to win?

 

Yes. I would not want any coach who wants a "problematic" player on his team.  You don't need high strung folks to win. Look at KC. Peters was sent packing and Hunt was shown the door. Of the 4 teams left standing only the Rams have the types of players you speak of in Peters, Suh, and some others. I'll go with the team first strategy that is reflected in 75% of the final four. And really how many successful teams cater to problematic players?  

The recipe to win in the NFL is to have a QB and a team. Team's do not succeed when they have problematic players.  Mike Tomlin is about as good a players coach you're going to get, and Brown can't get along with him? Say no to Brown. He's a cancer. Bell, on the other hand, is all about the money. He's Revis like. A decent teammate when he's playing, but doing what he thinks is necessary to get paid. Even though I do not view Bell as a "problem" in the locker room, I do not believe he will be worth his asking price. He is very good, but on the back side of his career and he benefited from playing behind a great O line in a dynamic offense.

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WalterFootball is straight trash.  Using an owners quote to try to prove a point?  Really? 

And I'll never fully understand this attempt to say Gase improved Tannehill's game.  He really didnt.  Tannehill had his best years under Joe Philbin and has been the same player ever since.  How did he improve under Adam Gase?  There is literally nothing to point at all that says Tannehill improved.  

Fun fact time!!!  Joe Philbin and Adam Gase were pretty much the same dude in Miami. 

Gase - 23-25.  Points scored:  26, 28, 17.  Points against 27, 29, 18

Philbin - 24-28.  Point scored: 11, 26, 27  Points against 20, 8, 7

So, we got that going for us! 

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1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Yes. I would not want any coach who wants a "problematic" player on his team.  You don't need high strung folks to win. Look at KC. Peters was sent packing and Hunt was shown the door. Of the 4 teams left standing only the Rams have the types of players you speak of in Peters, Suh, and some others. I'll go with the team first strategy that is reflected in 75% of the final four. And really how many successful teams cater to problematic players?  

The recipe to win in the NFL is to have a QB and a team. Team's do not succeed when they have problematic players.  Mike Tomlin is about as good a players coach you're going to get, and Brown can't get along with him? Say no to Brown. He's a cancer. Bell, on the other hand, is all about the money. He's Revis like. A decent teammate when he's playing, but doing what he thinks is necessary to get paid. Even though I do not view Bell as a "problem" in the locker room, I do not believe he will be worth his asking price. He is very good, but on the back side of his career and he benefited from playing behind a great O line in a dynamic offense.

Even the Tuna had a problematic player in LT.. Phil Simms said he had one rule for the team and a easier one for LT..

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Just now, Savage69 said:

Even the Tuna had a problematic player in LT.. Phil Simms said he had one rule for the team and a easier one for LT..

Did he walk out on his team during the final week of practice before a must win game? 

LT was not a "good guy". Drugs, drinking, women, etc... But, he was not a problem in the locker room. His teammates could count on him when the chips were down. He didn't cry over Carl Banks getting to blitz if he had to play coverage. For LT it was about winning. For Brown, it is about Brown.  

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