Jets CEO: Gase hire about winning, not Twitter

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

No. You’re right. In the area of hiring and firing GMs, he’s hopeless, but he’s a real savant when it comes to coaches.

Well, you have a tendency to be stringent on details, usually, and hold other to that accountability.

Just thought I would point out the flaw in your process ;)

[The Crusher]

17 minutes ago, CTM said:

Meh, it more interesting because he was basically saying Tannenhill blows which is corroborated by reports they are moving on from him.

Its exceedingly difficult to win consistently in this league with a bad QB as you well know. Not going to kill the guy just because hes like the vast majority of the rest of the guys.

Just be happy McGack didnt get his wish and we're sitting here with Rhule, a hand picked Mac staff loyal to Mac with 2 -3 years of built in learning curve excuses.

If/when this goes south Gase is going to be vocal about Macs performance. I find that preferable to the realistic alternatives once CJ decided to retain 

No way Macc looks into Gases’s eyes and not see his own mortality. I’m still modestly shaken up from that press conference yesterday. 

[Dcat]

34 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

No. You’re right. In the area of hiring and firing GMs, he’s hopeless, but he’s a real savant when it comes to coaches.

this thread is about Mac now?  He's a doofus.  We agree on that.  No discussion needed.  I'll stand by the Gase pick regardless, because if we were here talking about McCarthy, KK, Rhule, Monken or even Caldwell, we could always shift the topic to how stupid Mac is in every way.  As for Chris Johnson, nothing we can do but hope he manages to make the best decisions available.  He felt it was Gase over the others.  Since he is an offensive guy and a QB guy, I'll stand by it.  I'd really like to know the truth about what they and Cleveland and apparently other teams didn't like about McCarthy.  None of us really know what it was/is.  Money?  Power?  Stubbornness?  Inflexibility?  Failure to adapt to NFL changes?  WHAT???? 

[YankeeJet22]

25 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

All we can hope for is that Darnold is so good that it doesn’t matter.

So, you're preparing to discredit Gase no matter what.  Strategical of you to do so.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I agree. I said from the beginning that if they hired Gase it proved Chris Johnson was calling the shots because hiring someone so universally unpopular among the fanbase was something Woody would never do.

My belief is that this is the way it came down:

-They have the belief (and I believe it to be a right one), that they have a small window of opportunity to maximize the value of Darnold's talent, until future contract ramifications will . limit the amount of talent they surround him with.

-That belief made hiring a proven NFL coach the most desirous direction. It also is a different approach than they have taken in the past, and I am sure they thought now may be a good time to change that up. Heck, if it is broken, try and fix it.

-That basically left them with 2 real candidates:

   -MacCarthy

   -Gase

-You can take it from there i terms of how they then squared these candidates off, and what went down. They aren't telling us.

And that is where we are

[Creepy Lurker]

Here is my general opinion of this coaching hire since as with most things, there is a lot that we DON’T know:

Gase PROS:

Extensive offensive experience and has worked with great offensive minds/players like Peyton Manning. 

Seems to be VERY analytical/smart.

Obsessive and works extremely hard at watching film and leaving no stone unturned in regards to gameplanning/prep.

HE is the play caller so no revolving door at OC which gives Sam MUCH needed continuity. 

Gase Cons:

He was not very successful as a head coach. 

May come off as intellectually arrogant to others and not be able to convey messages properly. He may just have a hard time sharing his genius knowledge with others and it leads to tension. 

Players have to 100% buy in or the lockeroom will be fractured. 

Does not like the media and after yesterday probably already hates the NY media because of his INSANE eyes and all the talk about it. 

____________________________________________________

Was he the best hire? I don’t know. I wasn’t enamored with anyone really and I’m not a big McCarthy fan at all. I do think that McCarthy was the clear cut top candidate(Arians wasn’t coming here).

It seems that the only reason we didn’t get McCarthy was due to front office concerns and worrying about having say over personnel. The Jets would surely spin it otherwise to cover their *sses and it’s possible that he didn’t consider many teams because not all teams have a Sam Darnold. He did make a statement about only considering the Jets at one point. Doesn’t mean that no one wanted him. It’s tough to say because we don’t know. 

Either way, I see the good and bad in Gase. If you just break things down and keep things simple, you just have to ask yourself “Do I have faith in Chris Johnson and Mike Macagnan to do ______?”. The only thing that I could put in that blank is “f*ck things up” so no I personally don’t have any faith in Johnson or Mac which is why I worry about the hire.

Their empty brainless words mean nothing. Yesterday’s presser was a complete failure for this organization in regards to making a profound statement and having a unified front/new look. Mac didn’t even make a statement and we just look like a lost organization. 

I said it before, we made a mistake keeping Mac but what could we as fans do but move forward and support the team. Yesterday just gave me a bad feeling and it seems like the only one with confidence and more than half a brain is Gase so he is the LEAST of my concerns with this team. I look forward to he and Sam but adjusted expectations accordingly when only 1/2 of the problem here was taken care of on Black Monday. 

[FTL Jet Fan]

10 hours ago, dbatesman said:

the **** does this even mean

He is referring to Tannehill, he is talking about basically padding his stats having to sell Tannehill to the fan base since Trader Mike spent all that money. It was mentioned before down here. There was more detail than that. I think Gase is content working with a QB and calling plays. He is by no means a people person. 

[NoBowles]

You guys make my head hurt, the other day Mac picked Gase, now it was CJ, can you guys make up your minds?

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

My belief is that this is the way it came down:

-They have the belief (and I believe it to be a right one), that they have a small window of opportunity to maximize the value of Darnold's talent, until future contract ramifications will . limit the amount of talent they surround him with.

-That belief made hiring a proven NFL coach the most desirous direction. It also is a different approach than they have taken in the past, and I am sure they thought now may be a good time to change that up. Heck, if it is broken, try and fix it.

-That basically left them with 2 real candidates:

   -MacCarthy

   -Gase

-You can take it from there i terms of how they then squared these candidates off, and what went down. They aren't telling us.

And that is where we are

I would agree with this more if it wasn't clear that Rhule was among the final three (and arguably their preference over Gase if he was willing to acquiesce to their staff choices.)

[roscoeword]

Just as important as developing Sam, we need a coach who can scheme to get guys open. Watching other offenses, it seems like guys are open all over the place, and with us Sam has to make the perfect throw. Imagine how good Sam would be if our guys were actually open?

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

My belief is that this is the way it came down:

-They have the belief (and I believe it to be a right one), that they have a small window of opportunity to maximize the value of Darnold's talent, until future contract ramifications will . limit the amount of talent they surround him with.

-That belief made hiring a proven NFL coach the most desirous direction. It also is a different approach than they have taken in the past, and I am sure they thought now may be a good time to change that up. Heck, if it is broken, try and fix it.

-That basically left them with 2 real candidates:

   -MacCarthy

   -Gase

-You can take it from there i terms of how they then squared these candidates off, and what went down. They aren't telling us.

And that is where we are

I don't think McCarthy was ever all that high on the Jets list. I think Kingsbury/Rhule were higher on their list. The only reports that lead anyone to believe the jets and mccarthy were interested in each (aside from the interview) was when McCarthy leaked that he had a hard on for the Jets. 

 

[dbatesman]

8 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said:

So, you're preparing to discredit Gase no matter what.  Strategical of you to do so.

I’m always one step ahead, YankeeJet22

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Creepy Lurker said:

Here is my general opinion of this coaching hire since as with most things, there is a lot that we DON’T know:

Gase PROS:

Extensive offensive experience and has worked with great offensive minds/players like Peyton Manning. 

Seems to be VERY analytical/smart

Obsessive and works extremely hard at watching film and leaving no stone unturned in regards to gameplanning/prep.

HE is the play caller so no revolving door at OC which gives Sam MUCH needed continuity. 

Gase Cons:

He was not very successful as a head coach. 

May come off as intellectually arrogant to others and not be able to convey messages properly. He may just have a hard time sharing his genius knowledge with others and it leads to tension. 

Players have to 100% buy in or the lockeroom will be fractured. 

Does not like the media and after yesterday probably already hated the NY media because of his INSANE eyes and all the talk about it. 

____________________________________________________

Was he the best hire? I don’t know. I wasn’t enamored with anyone really and I’m not a big McCarthy fan at all. I do think that McCarthy was the clear cut top candidate(Arians wasn’t coming here).

It seems that the only reason we didn’t get McCarthy was due to front office concerns and worrying about having say over personnel. The Jets would surely spin it otherwise to cover their *sses and it’s possible that he didn’t consider many teams because not all teams have a Sam Darnold. He did make a statement about only considering the Jets at one point. Doesn’t mean that no one wanted him. It’s tough to say because we don’t know. 

Either way, I see the good and bad in Gase. If you just break things down and keep things simple, you just have to ask yourself “Do I have faith in Chris Johnson and Mike Macagnan to do ______?”. The only thing that I could put in that blank is “f*ck things up” so no I personally don’t have any faith in Johnson or Mac which is why I worry about the hire.

Their empty brainless words mean nothing. Yesterday’s presser was a complete failure for this organization in regards to making a profound statement and having a unified front/new look. Mac didn’t even make a statement and we just look like a lost organization. 

I said it before, we made a mistake keeping Mac but what could we as fans do but move forward and support the team. Yesterday just gave me a bad feeling and it seems like the only one with confidence and more than half a brain is Gase so he is the LEAST of my concerns with this team. I look forward to he and Sam but adjusted expectations accordingly when only 1/2 of the problem here was taken care of on Black Monday. 

The big hope that we have to have is that he learns from prior mistakes. Not everyone can do that. But, if he can and takes a step back, maybe they have something. Maybe.

There was a lot of clamor during the year, as it was abundantly clear that the Jets were going to fire Bowles, that we would be led down the familiar path of some top assistant getting his first shot because league wide circles thought it should be the case. it was a common mantra on this board as many already bemoaned the process before it even began. Same old, same old.

Well, the Jets threw us a curve. They went with the approach of recycling someone's old waste. Always a risk, because, how many HOF coaches get let go? 

That really left us with McCarthy vs Gase. Each with seeming warts. And, to be honest every head coach has warts. They are not difficult to point out, and this board would readily have done that with any candidate. It is the manifesto of sports board politics today, and heck, it is a fun exercise.

 

[Creepy Lurker]

19 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

My belief is that this is the way it came down:

-They have the belief (and I believe it to be a right one), that they have a small window of opportunity to maximize the value of Darnold's talent, until future contract ramifications will . limit the amount of talent they surround him with.

-That belief made hiring a proven NFL coach the most desirous direction. It also is a different approach than they have taken in the past, and I am sure they thought now may be a good time to change that up. Heck, if it is broken, try and fix it.

-That basically left them with 2 real candidates:

   -MacCarthy

   -Gase

-You can take it from there i terms of how they then squared these candidates off, and what went down. They aren't telling us.

And that is where we are

It’s funny because I didn’t even get to read this as I typed my post. Good points. I want to believe Gase was their best choice given the narrow parameters of preferring an experienced/offensive head coach which eliminates most candidates. I just can’t trust this organization led by Johnson in Mac. It makes me skeptical is all.

Even though McCarthy seemed liked the “no-brainer” pick, maybe he wasn’t so great. That’s why I said if you ask yourself “do you trust Johnson and Mac?”, you end up with the answer that the Jets messed this up with their structure/front office and missed out on McCarthy.

We will probably NEVER know what happened and all that matters is what Gase can do going forward. We can complain I’m a few years if it doesn’t work out and wonder “what if” with McCarthy and having made a different/obvious choice when presented with it. 

[Smashmouth]

11 hours ago, dbatesman said:

No, I’m starting to get it. One other question: this system of his, it produced a lot of wins, did it?

well at least it produced a playoff year something we have not seen since 10

[Losmeister]

FWIW, SOmeone was going blah blah blah about the "youth" movement in the NFL HC ranks... 

" it won't end well" blah blah blah

KK and Gase are both older than Beli was his first Cleve stint, and only a couple years younger than Parcells was when he got appointed to the Giants.

You really should know what TF you're on about before you open your pie hole...

[Dcat]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I am of the belief that Rex reaped the benefits of Mangini’s work in the same way that Herm reaped the benefits of Parcells’ good work. So, if history is any indicator, Brian Schottenheimer is going to inherit one hell of a good Jets team in four years when we fire Gase.

heh.

[Scott Dierking]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I would agree with this more if it wasn't clear that Rhule was among the final three (and arguably their preference over Gase if he was willing to acquiesce to their staff choices.)

For me, I was a Rhule guy. And I believe they may have been also. I believe in how he builds a program and I think he is tremendously smart and has a plan.

If Sam Darnold (or some other young qb with an apparent upside), I believe he would have been the pick. And I believe he was really considered, regardless.

Whether it was the staffing issue that created the separation there, none of us will ever really know. But whatever it was, along with the want to have the program move quickly, moved them toward Gase or MacCarthy.

[Creepy Lurker]

12 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The big hope that we have to have is that he learns from prior mistakes. Not everyone can do that. But, if he can and takes a step back, maybe they have something. Maybe.

There was a lot of clamor during the year, as it was abundantly clear that the Jets were going to fire Bowles, that we would be led down the familiar path of some top assistant getting his first shot because league wide circles thought it should be the case. it was a common mantra on this board as many already bemoaned the process before it even began. Same old, same old.

Well, the Jets threw us a curve. They went with the approach of recycling someone's old waste. Always a risk, because, how many HOF coaches get let go? 

That really left us with McCarthy vs Gase. Each with seeming warts. And, to be honest every head coach has warts. They are not difficult to point out, and this board would readily have done that with any candidate. It is the manifesto of sports board politics today, and heck, it is a fun exercise.

 

After Idzik then Bowles and Mac being recommended by consultants, they were better off doing it this way. This is why I wish we had and actual VP of football or an actual football mind making he decisions and not Christopher Johnson. Not a temporary consultant cashing in either. Someone with a vested interest that is thinking big picture.

Since we don’t have that, it’s left up to Johnson and Mac. That scares the sh*t out of me. I can’t blame Woody for leaning on football minds with the Idzik/Bowles/Mac hires AT ALL. That was a smart move and just blew up horribly. I surely can’t blame them this time around for relying on themselves after that.

I just have ZERO faith in Mac and Johnson despite liking the decision to keep the decision “in house”. Hopefully it works out and Gase can be honest with himself about his shortcomings and LEARN. Lean on a player coach or someone else to help have a voice in the lockeroom and be a buffer between his off putting style and the players. 

[Xtina]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

myopia is a terrible thing.   

Where do I get me those green colored glasses? 

[Dcat]

46 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

For someone who finds me so tiring, you sure spend a lot of time following me around.

Yes because I enjoy your posts.  Don't you know that?  It's fun watching how 'clever' you can be.

[Bleedin Green]

19 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

My belief is that this is the way it came down:

-They have the belief (and I believe it to be a right one), that they have a small window of opportunity to maximize the value of Darnold's talent, until future contract ramifications will . limit the amount of talent they surround him with.

-That belief made hiring a proven NFL coach the most desirous direction. It also is a different approach than they have taken in the past, and I am sure they thought now may be a good time to change that up. Heck, if it is broken, try and fix it.

-That basically left them with 2 real candidates:

   -MacCarthy

   -Gase

-You can take it from there i terms of how they then squared these candidates off, and what went down. They aren't telling us.

And that is where we are

If that's the truth, and yet Maccagnan is the one they trusted to do it (in terms of the surrounding talent part), then Johnson must have taken more blows to his head than all of the players combined.

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, Xtina said:

Where do I get me those green colored glasses? 

I don't know but when you figure it out, please send Gase a pair.  

 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

If that's the truth, and yet Maccagnan is the one they trusted to do it (in terms of the surrounding talent part), then Johnson must have taken more blows to his head than all of the players combined.

That is another subject. I cannot, and will not guess what the thought process there was in retention.

[Dcat]

4 minutes ago, Xtina said:

Where do I get me those green colored glasses? 

You have no idea why the Jets, Cleveland and allegedly other teams rejected McCarthy do you?  Neither do I.  Until we know, we are just talking out of our asses in claiming that McCarthy woud have been the better choice.  I was in that camp until yesterday.  It's an ugly place and it provides zero logic or reasoning.  

Get back to me when you can provide a cogent reason why McCarthy would be a better choice or any of the others for that matter.  To do so, you will need to discover why Jets and Browns rejected McCarthy... in other words what these teams didn't like in him.  Otherwise you are all opinion without logical foundation.  Opinions are fine, but at least admit you have nothing to validate it.

[FTL Jet Fan]

As long as he can develop Sam and gets him where he needs to be than it's a win for us. I like the fact that he wants to work directly with Sam as long as he can keep the rest of the offense on the same page. Gase did well with Tannehill when he was healthy, he was limited by Tannehill deep ball accuracy issues and other Flaws. It's all about Sam, if he can become a FQB and Gase designs plays to his strengths, that's a step in the right direction, which we have all been waiting for. That's why I am anxious to see who are D coordinator will be because that's an extremely important hire when the head coach says he wants some who can focus on the D so he can work with Sam.

[dbatesman]

14 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Yes because I enjoy your posts.  Don't you know that?  It's fun watching how 'clever' you can be.

Thank you

[Bleedin Green]

45 minutes ago, CTM said:

Meh, it more interesting because he was basically saying Tannenhill blows which is corroborated by reports they are moving on from him.

Its exceedingly difficult to win consistently in this league with a bad QB as you well know. Not going to kill the guy just because hes like the vast majority of the rest of the guys.

Just be happy McGack didnt get his wish and we're sitting here with Rhule, a hand picked Mac staff loyal to Mac with 2 -3 years of built in learning curve excuses.

If/when this goes south Gase is going to be vocal about Macs performance. I find that preferable to the realistic alternatives once CJ decided to retain 

While I get your points on some of the other stuff, my concern is that I have nowhere near the belief you do that there will be any quick or well-managed changes if this doesn't go well.  Quite frankly, I think any coach who took this job, no matter who, was already destined for at least a few years of a smooth ride, no matter how badly he does.  Reason being is that, simply enough, right now they care about nothing but Darnold.  Now don't get me wrong, I completely understand that and agree with it to an extent, however Darnold is absolutely destined to show continued improvement over these next few years, regardless of any other circumstances.

Now I won't dismiss the fact that coaching can of course help him, but Darnold is good enough that he would continue to improve even if Todd f'n Bowles was still his coach.  Yet I don't doubt the improvements of Darnold is all the idiots who run this team will need to see to convince themselves all is great, regardless of what the true story is behind it all.  Now of course if the team is successful around him as well, then I'll have no problem with that at all, and will be glad to be wrong.  On the other hand, if not, Darnold could be the next QB who's left carrying a garbage team around, and seeing modicum levels of success because of it, which I think is the single greatest sin that ever occurs in the NFL.

[The Crusher]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

BREAKING: there is a poster named “mitochondria.”

 

He’s a powerhouse. 

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

He’s a powerhouse. 

This is great!!! Haha!!

[kevinc855]

ahh Chris finally wants to win.....encouraging 

[Jet Nut]

20 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

After Idzik then Bowles and Mac being recommended by consultants, they were better off doing it this way. This is why I wish we had and actual VP of football or an actual football mind making he decisions and not Christopher Johnson. Not a temporary consultant cashing in either. Someone with a vested interest that is thinking big picture.

Even if there was another layer of a football VP CJ would still be in on the process, there would just be another voice agreeing with the choice of Gase or maybe someone else.  Let's face it we have no idea who impressed in their interviews and who didn't. 

If anything I would think it's either 4 joining in on the decision, CJ, Macc, Heimerdinger and the VP.  Or Heimerdinger is left out.  Not a much different scenario.  

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

I assume Chris Johnson doesn’t make the decision about what to have for breakfast essily or flippantly either, simply because it takes all of his cognitive energy to do so.

I wasn’t really stumping for any of the other guys, and while Gase is an underwhelming hire, I don’t think he’s a bad coach. But Johnson and Maccagnan are so dumb, and the power structure of the team is so ****ed, that I think it’s going to be very tough for anyone save a bigfoot CEO type like McCarthy to be successful here. All we can hope for is that Darnold is so good that it doesn’t matter.

The last sentence is spot on and would be true to a significant level regardless of the coach hire. All I wanted was NOT a first time coach, because it’s never worked for us before and the rest of the team is a mess.

Sam Darnold was always going to be the limiting factor of a head coaches success here. That hasn’t changed. 

[Creepy Lurker]

20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Even if there was another layer of a football VP CJ would still be in on the process, there would just be another voice agreeing with the choice of Gase or maybe someone else.  Let's face it we have no idea who impressed in their interviews and who didn't. 

If anything I would think it's either 4 joining in on the decision, CJ, Macc, Heimerdinger and the VP.  Or Heimerdinger is left out.  Not a much different scenario.  

We’ve spoken about the whole VP of football dilemma in the past. I guess my idea(not realistic) is for a NON-MEDDLING owner. Almost like a silent owner with absolutely minimal input because he hired a great football mind and has full faith in him.

The issue with GM reporting to an owner with no football experience for final say, is that it muddies things up and he doesn’t add value to the process. 

I agree I think a VP of football that gets overruled by the owner or has to actually check with the owner with decisions would be kind of pointless. 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

We’ve spoken about the whole VP of football dilemma in the past. I guess my idea(not realistic) is for a NON-MEDDLING owner. Almost like a silent owner with absolutely minimal input because he hired a great football mind and has full faith in him.

The issue with GM reporting to an owner with no football experience for final say, is that it muddies things up and he doesn’t add value to the process. 

I agree I think a VP of football that gets overruled by the owner or has to actually check with the owner with decisions would be kind of pointless. 

Every single owner of a NFL team is always involved in hiring the teams HC.  CJ was in the interviews and as he said his job, in his mind, was watching and listening to figure out the man, who he was.  He has said Macc and Heimerdinger know football, he doesn't and he defers the football portion to them.  I see no guarantee that they made the best choice but don't see where the process was flawed in regards to CJs involvement.  There also is no indication that if Macc wanted one guy the owner would overrule his choice.  Anymore than of a VP wanted someone who wasn't the owners choice he wouldn't be overruled.