Some food for thought

[section314]

Just recently, the Jets did the smart thing and extended our ST coach, Brant Boyer, after a great season. Yet, if you could go back and look at the posts on this site from the 2016-17 seasons, the majority of them called for his firing. He can't coach, in over his head, system stinks etc. Something to keep in mind, maybe, when so many are killing Adam Gase  here before he's even had a chance to do anything.

[More Cowbell]

If you think this was bad, you should have seen what the internet was like when Mangini was hired.  Trust me, this was not bad at all. 

[UntouchableCrew]

It's a fair point but I will allege it's rare for a team to go from terrible on special teams for two years to elite in the third year.

Credit to Andre Roberts and Jason Meyers.

[section314]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

If you think this was bad, you should have seen what the internet was like when Mangini was hired.  Trust me, this was not bad at all. 

You're right, but my point is that knee jerk reactions are usually silly.

[section314]

Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

It's a fair point but I will allege it's rare for a team to go from terrible on special teams for two years to elite in the third year.

Credit to Andre Roberts and Jason Meyers.

Ok, but do you think he changed his system, or that he grew into the position and he had better talent to coach? I would say the later.

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, section314 said:

Ok, but do you think he changed his system, or that he grew into the position and he had better talent to coach? I would say the later.

As @Lith mentioned some of the blocks that were set up on the returns were absolutely fantastic. He had something really nice things working for him from a player personnel standpoint and from the inner workings of the system.

i hope we see more of the same next season.

[UntouchableCrew]

5 minutes ago, section314 said:

Ok, but do you think he changed his system, or that he grew into the position and he had better talent to coach? I would say the later.

The latter I would think too, although admittedly I'm not typically paying close attention to the scheme aspects of special teams... I was basically pointing out that Andre Roberts seemed to be the big difference this year.

[slats]

Gase's "franchise QB" in Miami was Ryan Tannehill, and he coached half his time there with Tannehill out of the lineup. Every year, the Jets fans on this board looked at the talent on the fish and penciled in two wins for the Jets but, instead, Gase went 5-1 against the Jets. IMHO, he overachieved there. 

[Thai Jet]

14 minutes ago, section314 said:

You're right, but my point is that knee jerk reactions are usually silly.

Isn't that just human nature ? We DO seem to have cornered the market however on these knee jerkers.

[peebag]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Gase's "franchise QB" in Miami was Ryan Tannehill, and he coached half his time there with Tannehill out of the lineup. Every year, the Jets fans on this board looked at the talent on the fish and penciled in two wins for the Jets but, instead, Gase went 5-1 against the Jets. IMHO, he overachieved there. 

Anyone who did that w/ Bowles as our coach was an idiot.

[Beerfish]

Well in that case I expect gase to go from lower 5 in the league in offensive to top 3 now that he has a Qb. right?

[Apache 51]

I want 6, not 3.

[Bleedin Green]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Gase's "franchise QB" in Miami was Ryan Tannehill, and he coached half his time there with Tannehill out of the lineup. Every year, the Jets fans on this board looked at the talent on the fish and penciled in two wins for the Jets but, instead, Gase went 5-1 against the Jets. IMHO, he overachieved there. 

Oh come on, the bold is so ridiculously untrue, especially this year.  He most certainly did extremely well against the Jets, and while that's very impressive to you and Chris Johnson, unfortunately the same was not so much the case against the rest of the league.

Back to the original point of this thread.  Can people improve in their abilities?  Absolutely, yes.  However, when someone has a past track record of failure, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of that failure to continue.  Nothing would make me happier than Gase to be one of those guys to overcome the odds, but if you go looking for an outlier to prove something isn't impossible, then you'll always be able to find it.  However, by that logic, there's not a single bad hire the Jets could have possibly made, and as we've seen many, many, many times over... that's most certainly not true.

We'll obviously see how it all works out, but the eventual success of a special teams coordinator doesn't give any great reason to influence opinions about a different guy's abilities as a head coach.

[CrazyCarl40]

57 minutes ago, section314 said:

You're right, but my point is that knee jerk reactions are usually silly.

The vitriol pointed at the Jets new coach is not a knee jerk reaction. There is quantitative and statistical evidence that shows the guy wasn’t great in Miami. I don’t think he was the best candidate for the job and a lot of people here are trusting people they think are terrible at their job to have gotten this right. The majority of fans dislike the Johnsons and think Macc also should have been fired, but somehow those two forces combined will have hired the man to save this wretched franchise from its current downward trajectory all while having Macc still buy the groceries. It’s lunacy. 

[slats]

24 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Oh come on, the bold is so ridiculously untrue, especially this year.  He most certainly did extremely well against the Jets, and while that's very impressive to you and Chris Johnson, unfortunately the same was not so much the case against the rest of the league.

Back to the original point of this thread.  Can people improve in their abilities?  Absolutely, yes.  However, when someone has a past track record of failure, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of that failure to continue.  Nothing would make me happier than Gase to be one of those guys to overcome the odds, but if you go looking for an outlier to prove something isn't impossible, then you'll always be able to find it.  However, by that logic, there's not a single bad hire the Jets could have possibly made, and as we've seen many, many, many times over... that's most certainly not true.

We'll obviously see how it all works out, but the eventual success of a special teams coordinator doesn't give any great reason to influence opinions about a different guy's abilities as a head coach.

It's not that it impressed me, just citing it as an example. I don't think anyone, anywhere thought of Gase's fish teams as talented - that's really all I'm saying here. I could say the same for Bowles, too, actually, but those fish teams won more games than I expected them to. 

To be clear: I don't like the Jets ownership or the GM they chose to retain and Gase wasn't my first choice for head coach, but this is what I've got and I'm willing to let it play out here before I crap all over it. Gase was the hot offensive name three years ago. In Miami, he was given personnel control while he was still learning on the job how to be a head coach. Could be there was too much on his plate. I don't think he went from genius to idiot in three years. Here it looks like he'll be the OC/QB coach kinda overseeing the team with a head coach of the defense autonomously running that side of the ball. Again, not my favorite way to run a football team, but maybe that gets the team the best of what Gase has to offer. 

Betting against this team is easy. I wholeheartedly get why people do it. But I'm a glass-half-full kinda guy until I recognize for certain that the glass is empty. I also go thru the stages of grief with this team quickly and found myself at the acceptance stage in very short order. It is what it is and if I haven't decided to just give up on this team (which I've already done with every other major sport), then I might as well try to enjoy it. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Yet, if you could go back and look at the posts on this site from the 2016-17 seasons, the majority of them called for his firing.

They were?  I honestly don't recall any big push to fire this guy, but maybe I overlooked it.  

[32EBoozer]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

They were?  I honestly don't recall any big push to fire this guy, but maybe I overlooked it.  

I love the new avatar..... hilarious ? 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Just recently, the Jets did the smart thing and extended our ST coach, Brant Boyer, after a great season. Yet, if you could go back and look at the posts on this site from the 2016-17 seasons, the majority of them called for his firing. He can't coach, in over his head, system stinks etc. Something to keep in mind, maybe, when so many are killing Adam Gase  here before he's even had a chance to do anything.

Food?

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, Thai Jet said:

Isn't that just human nature ? We DO seem to have cornered the market however on these knee jerkers.

for you, sir. Knee jerk in action

 

[ljr]

Isn't that just human nature ? We DO seem to have cornered the market however on these jerkers.

Fixed


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, slats said:

It's not that it impressed me, just citing it as an example. I don't think anyone, anywhere thought of Gase's fish teams as talented - that's really all I'm saying here. I could say the same for Bowles, too, actually, but those fish teams won more games than I expected them to. 

To be clear: I don't like the Jets ownership or the GM they chose to retain and Gase wasn't my first choice for head coach, but this is what I've got and I'm willing to let it play out here before I crap all over it. Gase was the hot offensive name three years ago. In Miami, he was given personnel control while he was still learning on the job how to be a head coach. Could be there was too much on his plate. I don't think he went from genius to idiot in three years. Here it looks like he'll be the OC/QB coach kinda overseeing the team with a head coach of the defense autonomously running that side of the ball. Again, not my favorite way to run a football team, but maybe that gets the team the best of what Gase has to offer. 

Betting against this team is easy. I wholeheartedly get why people do it. But I'm a glass-half-full kinda guy until I recognize for certain that the glass is empty. I also go thru the stages of grief with this team quickly and found myself at the acceptance stage in very short order. It is what it is and if I haven't decided to just give up on this team (which I've already done with every other major sport), then I might as well try to enjoy it. 

I get what you're saying to an extent, and I think the fact that the asterisks that go next to Gase are the same that were given to Bowles this time last year, as you mentioned, is what sends shivers down by spine.

In regards to your last point, while I'm never considered among the most optimistic among us, I generally give the new guys at least some time before starting to judge them, for a variety of reasons.  However, I'll also freely admit once they've done enough to convince me the Jets were wrong, it's going to take a whooooole lot to be sold on them again.  It just so happens in this particular case, when the list of candidates that the Jets were looking into came up, Gase was dead last on the list for me from the beginning, which is what really makes this one hard to accept by any means, other than simply defeat.  In the end, it's happened so now we'll have to wait and see, and I'll certainly be rooting for him to totally nail it in his time with Jets, but it kind of becomes cringe-worthy that so many of the arguments made in his favor are dependent on betting on statistical outliers more than the overwhelming majority of circumstances.  If it works out that way, I'll be thrilled, but my annoying brain still isn't really buying into that yet, because I can't find a real reason.