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DMan77

3 Coordinators, No Head Coach

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2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think the case is being overstated to a certain degree -- like Gase and Williams will truly be equals and will take turns managing the game.

Look, we (at least most of us) wanted an offensive guy to develop Darnold and that's what we got. His primary focus will be offense and he's calling offensive plays. The system will be his and he'll be linked at the hip with the young franchise QB. Williams will have a fair amount of autonomy and Gase won't be dictating much about how he runs his defense outside of big picture situational stuff.

Isn't that a good thing? Every time Bowles stuck his beak into the offensive meetings it seemed to involve calls to run the ball more or anoint Ryan Fitzpatrick. We cycled through three offensive coordinators in four years because he couldn't keep one around or pick a guy he liked.

If you have a CEO type you're confident in making all the hires, that's great. We wen't with the "guru" because the hire was all about Sam. Given that, this type of hire makes perfect sense and Gase seems completely on board with it.

The Jets could have (and have done in the past) a lot worse of a job. I just hope the personalities end up working out and someone actually lesrns how to work a draft properly at the end of the day. 

I think the big takeaways really are that the Jets realized three things: players were walking over Bowles with the Lateness and accountability issues so no more club Jets, you need to develop your qb as your top priority, and you can’t have such inferior staff under your head coach if you want to win. 

Whether the GM actually picks offense is another matter. 

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Well Todd Bowles was a disaster with the O and D.. I think this is what many of the best teams do.. rex Ryan polluted the O, and should not have been allowed to go near it. It is much harder to get a good O coach to just be OC, than it is for a good D coach to just dc. Jets have had it backwards for the past 20 plus years..

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1 hour ago, DMan77 said:

I'm stealing this from SAR I's (Apologies, sir!) excellent Mike Francesa thread because I think it deserves it's own broader discussion.

It sounds very much from what we've heard and read that the Jets are going to be running more of a 3 coordinator system rather than a HC ->Coordinator -> Position coach hierarchy. Gase even basically said he wanted someone with a HC mentality to run the defense. They want someone who can work mostly independent of the HC so Gase can focus on the QB and the offense. 

It's an interesting idea, and it definitely takes the right kind of coaches and personalities. I think there are a lot of coaches (Bowles...) who would have a hard time turning that kind of control over and running this kind of system... Afterall, even if Gase has little to do with the defense he has Head Coach next to his name, so he'll still take the brunt of the criticism if it flounders. 

LA was the tip of the spear with this concept and it's worked... Maybe for once the Jets are getting in on the newest trends early.

It's a risky way to do things, but I'm excited to see how things play out. 

 

It's essentially the staff Macc wanted Rhule to preside over. So minus Rhule as a HC, he assembled the avengers anyway. 

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7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Mcvay runs the offense and lets Wade Phillips do his thing on defense. It's clearly been a Trainwreck for that franchise.

Of course.

But, as usual, pretending that the Jets are doing something that no other franchise would be dumb enough to do is a more entertaining narrative. 

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6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Why are you guys acting like the Jets are the only team not employing a CEO HC approach? 

For instance, See the Rams with McVay and Wade Phillips, or really, the Saints during any year of Sean Payton's reign. 

 

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

So, just like half the teams in the league?

But you need your coach to be AWESOME at running one side of the ball for that to work.  And even then it still might not work if the HC doesn't have the personality to handle the job effectively.

You guys are practically operating like McVay, Payton, Reid, etc just sit in a room all week drawing up plays while the team is outside practicing.  You still have duties to perform as HC, and important ones at that.  Meaning to make that operation work, you have to be simultaneously stellar at calling plays AND able to manage the locker room and personalities.

You also need to be flexible and adaptable.  There's been times when some of those great coaches handed over play-calling duties for a few games so they could focus on other aspects of the team.  Will Gase be willing to do that, if what he's doing isn't working a few weeks in a row? 

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7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Why are you guys acting like the Jets are the only team not employing a CEO HC approach? 

For instance, See the Rams with McVay and Wade Phillips, or really, the Saints during any year of Sean Payton's reign. 

So...no, then?

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7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Isn't  this pretty  much what Rex did 3xcept with Defense? Im not even sure Rex could name the guys on offense.  

More or less, but didn't he basically adopt Mark Sanchez? 

I also don't think he had the personality to not at least have a strong understanding of what happened every day and what they were working on and such. 

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

But you need your coach to be AWESOME at running one side of the ball for that to work.  And even then it still might not work if the HC doesn't have the personality to have the job.

I agree. This is far from a slam dunk. We'll see what Gase is (I think we can safely predict that the defense will at least be stable under Williams).

I'm just pointing out how silly it is to pretend that the Jets are doing something particularly unconventional or unwise by allowing their HC to focus on what he supposedly knows best. 

Whether Gase has the temperament/maturity/flexibility to make this work well is an open question. 

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2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I agree. This is far from a slam dunk. We'll see what Gase is (I think we can safely predict that the defense will at least be stable under Williams).

I'm just pointing out how silly it is to pretend that the Jets are doing something particularly unconventional or unwise by allowing their HC to focus on what he supposedly knows best.  

Whether Gase has the temperament/maturity/flexibility to make this work well is an open question.  

I don't take issue with Gase being both the HC and OC.  But he still needs to be the HC too.  A team can't have any uncertainty about that.

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19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

"Oh man, look at these people getting all worked up about the team going 10-34 the last 3 years and showing few signs of growing up as a franchise.  They don't know how good they have it!"

No funny is the idea that we don't have a HC, we have 3 coordinators and no real HC.

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15 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Mcvay runs the offense and lets Wade Phillips do his thing on defense. It's clearly been a Trainwreck for that franchise.

Wade Phillips has had 5 top ten scoring defenses under his guidance in the last 10 seasons. Gregg Williams has 1. 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't take issue with Gase being both the HC and OC.  But he still needs to be the HC too.  A team can't have any uncertainty about that.

I agree, but I really don't perceive any uncertainty about that. He's the head coach. 

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I do think Gase will hold a HC role in a few ways here. He won't completely abandon those responsibilities. 

I think he is going to outline the type of team, in all three facets, that he wants. I think he'll handle making sure guys know the rules and regulations and what he wants out of the team. I think he'll build and nurture the overall feel he wants of the team on the field and in the locker room. 

But play-calling, defensive scheming, scouting team offenses... He won't touch it much, I think. 

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I think the big takeaways really are that the Jets realized three things: players were walking over Bowles with the Lateness and accountability issues so no more club Jets


I like how the disciplinarian crowd kills bowles for punishing players who were late but have no issue with Gase allowing Chris Foerster turn the offensive line meeting room into studio 54.
Adam gase is either unaware or extremely permissive.

Say what you want about Todd Bowles, his assistant coaches never made TMZ

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

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8 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Wade Phillips has had 5 top ten scoring defenses under his guidance in the last 10 seasons. Gregg Williams has 1. 

That's a completely separate discussion than the on we are having. The issue isn't whether it will work, the issue is whether a system whereby the DC runs the defense on an island CAN work. It has been proven that it can. 

Can you guys wait until these guys coach their first game before "Hot Taking" this set up? 

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:


 

 


I like how the disciplinarian crowd kills bowles for punishing players who were late but have no issue with Gase allowing Chris Foerster turn the offensive line meeting room into studio 54.
Adam gase is either unaware or extremely permissive.

Say what you want about Todd Bowles, his assistant coaches never made TMZ

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

They also with Best them in 5-6 meetings. Maybe they should get out more?

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50 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Jets have 2 head coaches. Adam Gase, and the voice inside Gase's head that tells him to kill everybody 

When the Jets were doing the obligatory background check on Gase, they jokingly asked him, "where are the bodies buried?"

Gase got nervous because he thought they meant literally. 

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2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

That's a completely separate discussion than the on we are having. The issue isn't whether it will work, the issue is whether a system whereby the DC runs the defense on an island CAN work. It has been proven that it can. 

I think it's even more than that. Not only can it work, but as Brian Costello pointed out on WFAN yesterday, the majority of the league is currently taking this approach. There are examples of it working and examples of it being a disaster. 

People can complain about Gase and/or Williams all they want, but to complain about the coaching hierarchy seems very silly to me, since there are a bunch of teams doing the same thing. 

Lastly, it's not even really entirely true that this is some new trend. Sean Payton has always done it this way and won a Superbowl in 2009 with the same defensive coordinator we just inked. Going back even further, the great championship Denver teams of 97-98 had the same thing going on with Shanahan and Greg Robinson. 

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37 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Of course.

But, as usual, pretending that the Jets are doing something that no other franchise would be dumb enough to do is a more entertaining narrative. 

Was wade phillips chosen before mcvay got hired? That’s the main part i have the issue with.

 

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25 minutes ago, bitonti said:


 

 


I like how the disciplinarian crowd kills bowles for punishing players who were late but have no issue with Gase allowing Chris Foerster turn the offensive line meeting room into studio 54.
Adam gase is either unaware or extremely permissive.

Say what you want about Todd Bowles, his assistant coaches never made TMZ

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

I think a big question mark very much is that Gase played favorites and let things slide. Can’t have that and preach accountability unless it is equal. I’m only saying that Bringing Williams on could signal they want more tough love. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So using that blueprint, we have 1 season where this new structure will work well before it fails miserably.

Sounds about right. 

63 successful games?  Not a bad trade off

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1 minute ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Was wade phillips chosen before mcvay got hired? That’s the main part i have the issue with.

 

Eh, who knows when Williams was chosen? For instance, according to Ian Rappaport, Adam Gase got his "top choice at DC."

Meanwhile, Schefter says the Jets were targeting Williams no matter who their HC was. 

Perhaps it was something that both the Jets hierarchy and Gase agreed on when they met? Perhaps they both happened to have Williams as their number one choice heading into the meeting?

Does it really matter? If Williams and Gase can coexist and get the team to play well, no one will give a sh*t about stuff like this. If they end up clashing and the team disappoints the fans as per usual, they'll be out of here in 2-3 years, regardless. 

 

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16 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I think a big question mark very much is that Gase played favorites and let things slide. Can’t have that and preach accountability unless it is equal. I’m only saying that Bringing Williams on could signal they want more tough love. 

All coaches play favorites.  Parcells had "his guys" and he used those guys to spread the gospel to the drones in the clubhouse.  Coaches favor guys who get it, who study the program, work hard and show success on the field.  Why shouldn't they be favored? Football is a rough game. Why shouldn't guys who give the most effort and achieve production be favored?

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Just now, slimjasi said:

Eh, who knows when Williams was chosen? For instance, according to Ian Rappaport, Adam Gase got his "top choice at DC."

Meanwhile, Schefter says the Jets were targeting Williams no matter who their HC was. 

Perhaps it was something that both the Jets hierarchy and Gase agreed on when they met? Perhaps they both happened to have Williams as their number one choice heading into the meeting?

Does it really matter? If Williams and Gase can coexist and get the team to play well, no one will give a sh*t about stuff like this. If they end up clashing and the team disappoints the fans as per usual, they'll be out of here in 2-3 years, regardless. 

 

Would you stop already man. You're really killing all the fun, lol.

No way this works; Gase is a psychotic unhinged drug addict, and even tho things work the same elsewhere: no wei here

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1 hour ago, DMan77 said:

A lot can go wrong for sure... But it could also work. 

imo they have good guys in each of the positions.  the only downside is whatever chris johnson and mac bring to the management of the team.  i think a tried and true football guy really needed to be in the hierarchy to keep the football operations from whatever else chris is doing with the team.

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1 hour ago, nico002 said:

Adam Gase is the head coach- that's his title for a reason. He has 3 years of head coaching experience. 

Sean Payton, Andy Reid, McVay

3/4 Championship game head coaches are defacto OCs that really focus on that side of the ball. 

Not a new idea... AT ALL. Ever heard of a guy named Bill Walsh?

"CEO" head coaches are the most overrated thing in the world. 

Agreed. Does anyone in their right mind think that Payton, Reid, McVay, Nagy, Pederson, etc have any idea about defense AT ALL? The answer is no.

There are CEO HC’s. But you don’t have to be one to be great.

You have to master your speciality (O, D, or ST) and set the tone, the identity, and the attitude .for the team.

There is no better example than Doug Pederson (the most underrated coach in the league). He’s all offense, calls the plays, focus is there. Lets Schwartz handle the D. But he gives his entire team an aggressive mindset. Go for it on 4th down, don’t play scared, no prevent D if we have the lead, etc. 

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1 hour ago, DMan77 said:

I'm stealing this from SAR I's (Apologies, sir!) excellent Mike Francesa thread because I think it deserves it's own broader discussion.

It sounds very much from what we've heard and read that the Jets are going to be running more of a 3 coordinator system rather than a HC ->Coordinator -> Position coach hierarchy. Gase even basically said he wanted someone with a HC mentality to run the defense. They want someone who can work mostly independent of the HC so Gase can focus on the QB and the offense. 

It's an interesting idea, and it definitely takes the right kind of coaches and personalities. I think there are a lot of coaches (Bowles...) who would have a hard time turning that kind of control over and running this kind of system... Afterall, even if Gase has little to do with the defense he has Head Coach next to his name, so he'll still take the brunt of the criticism if it flounders. 

LA was the tip of the spear with this concept and it's worked... Maybe for once the Jets are getting in on the newest trends early.

It's a risky way to do things, but I'm excited to see how things play out. 

 

Who's managing the clock and calling TO's ? Will Williams will be calling Defensive TO's and Gase Offensive TO's.... 

HC needs to watching when the opposing  offense calls out of a play and we do not have the proper Defense to cover. Does Williams call that TO?

What about "Challenges" Will Gase be watching the "D" and challenge a call?

Curious to see how this all plays out.

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2 hours ago, nico002 said:

Adam Gase is the head coach- that's his title for a reason. He has 3 years of head coaching experience. 

Sean Payton, Andy Reid, McVay

3/4 Championship game head coaches are defacto OCs that really focus on that side of the ball. 

Not a new idea... AT ALL. Ever heard of a guy named Bill Walsh?

"CEO" head coaches are the most overrated thing in the world. 

It takes the right kind of skill set to implement this strategy successfully. IMO Gase has not in his time as a head coach shown himself to be a Payton or Reid yet. Or to be able to achieve beyond a coordinator’s responsibilities. With all three in charge no one is in charge. I actually can  foresee Williams surreptitiously superseding Gase as the de facto head coach 

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2 hours ago, DMan77 said:

The Hindenburg flew 63 successful trips for 14 months... It worked for a while ;)

 

 

 

“ It worked for a while” could be the Jets’ motto 

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

Well as long as there is proper communication between these coordinators and they understand that Gase has final say on “in-general situations” and Gase often wants to make a collaborative effort to solve the decisions that rise, things will be okay.

I’d also like to say that Matt Burke is one garbage ass DC and Gase hasn’t yet had a guy like Gregg Williams, who can completely take over his side of the ball without Gase having to worry about a thing. This bodes well for Gase and will allow him to really dig into his comfort zone as a coach and get it going with Sam and the offense.

Gregg Williams was a bigger hire than people think. It’s not just about getting an aggressive, tough, gritty and effective coach. It’s about the true freedom that it gives Adam Gase and the potential success this team can see in all three phases of the game.

As much as I have hated Williams personally up till now, this hire is my only source of comfort about the team’s immediate future 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No, he didn't.  I demonstrated that in another thread:

 

 

Philbin did better with Tannehill in 2014 than Gase ever did in his Miami tenure.  Gase's only quantifiable success stories were:  1) Getting Manning to play at an elite level in 2014, when his body started breaking down, and 2) Doing better with Cutler in 2015 than Aaron Kromer did in 2014.

QB whisperer, he has NOT proven to be so far in his career. 

This idea of Gase as QB whisperer has officially been elevated to urban legend level 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

But you need your coach to be AWESOME at running one side of the ball for that to work.  And even then it still might not work if the HC doesn't have the personality to handle the job effectively.

You guys are practically operating like McVay, Payton, Reid, etc just sit in a room all week drawing up plays while the team is outside practicing.  You still have duties to perform as HC, and important ones at that.  Meaning to make that operation work, you have to be simultaneously stellar at calling plays AND able to manage the locker room and personalities.

You also need to be flexible and adaptable.  There's been times when some of those great coaches handed over play-calling duties for a few games so they could focus on other aspects of the team.  Will Gase be willing to do that, if what he's doing isn't working a few weeks in a row? 

It’s as if HC tasks such as  molding the team to have an identity, and drawing up game plans, for instance , are no longer even part of the equation. Everyone is just focusing on game day dynamics 

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

What?

I asked if Gase has hiring and firing power over his staff. You quoted me and said something about Sean McVay and Wade Phillips. I took it as a no.

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