Jump to content

Okay... it has to be Josh Allen


JetFanatic

Recommended Posts

So I was all in for Jonah Williams at pick #3 because I'm a true believer of the Mangini style drafts where you really build from the inside out.  In 2006 it was D'Brick with the pick at #4 and Mangold with the pick at #29.  Not the sexy picks but we all see how that turned out.  Especially with Sam Darnold looking like he has the potential to be a really good QB I wanted to make sure that the first priority was to protect him at all costs.  Realistically, as far as priority along the offensive line I would say the Center position is actually in the most desperate need of an upgrade but with it being unrealistic to draft a Center that high, LT being a premier position and it being a weak class in regards to talent at the Center position I was all for the positional value with the #3 pick and playing it smart and safe and going with Jonah Williams.

Now I've been watching a lot of Josh Allen out of Kentucky and not just YouTube Highlights where they're just showing his sacks, his great plays and tackles for losses, I've watch a lot of game film where I wanted to see how he performed throughout an entire game.  I've watched meaningless games against scrub opponents and the big games.  I'm not by any means a draft guru or scout at all but the more I watch this kid play the more I feel like he has to be the pick at #3.  Ultimately it came down to me having more faith in Allen becoming a complete game wrecker on defense and getting double digit sacks regularly every season vs me having faith that Jonah Williams becomes a brick wall of a LT where you don't have to worry about anyone coming through from the left side to harm our most prized possession in Sam Darnold.  Not taking anything away from Jonah I feel like he'll be excellent at the next level but I think having guys like Jamal Adams, Maye (if healthy), Leo, Josh Allen, and even Lee in Gregg William's attacking 4-3 style defense would frighten any offense in the league.  And I'm positive that they'll be signing another impact defensive lineman to add to that line.  Scary.  This defense will continue to be borderline good until they add a legitimate pass rusher.  Then I think they become a force.

I know a lot of people are going to immediately dismiss Josh Allen at #3 because of the pending switch to the 4-3 that comes with Gregg William's defense but Allen could absolutely thrive in any defensive scheme and I'm certain that Gregg Williams will make this guy reach his peak potential.  The Jets offensive line ranked around the middle of the pack when it came to pass protection last season so I'd be fine with upgrading the Center position in FA (Paradis, Morse) and rolling with Beachum/Long/FA/Winters/Shell for another season.  I just don't think they can pass up on Allen and it's very likely that he's gone by the time the Jets pick but I'm banking on a team trading up for one of the QBs and Allen being there for the taking.  Anyway thanks for reading guys just my two cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 115
  • Created
  • Last Reply

He has a very good motor, pursuit, great natural athleticism, nice bend/dip and he doesn’t give up on a play.

But most of his sacks have come from a open path to the QB or him just blasting the tackle on his way for the sack, he sometimes over pursues and he’s hasn’t displayed any type of arsenal as far as pass rushing moves goes. I’ve said this a few other times in a few other threads but he’s a scary pick at #3 because I think he’s more of a situational pass rusher at this moment. Pass rushing moves can be taught but he’s going to be facing bigger tackles with so much better footwork and strength. Can he overpower grown men in the NFL like he did his collegian competition? I think he’s more Vic Beasley instead of Von Miller. I don’t love Allen at #3 honestly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jonah Williams has given up  only 2 sacks on 831 snaps and has played every single game of his college career. He’s been extremely durable. He’s played full seasons as LT and RT.  Sam Darnold doesn’t need to be running for his life any longer, he cannot properly develop like that. Once falling into the crowd that thought he may be a LG at the next level, I’m starting to question even that, he might could play three different positions. It’s a lot of back and forth for me in draft season but I think, regardless, Jonah needs to be the pick. The OL was not middle of the pack, they couldn’t get push in the run game, they got Josh McCown hurt, they got Darnold hurt, Darnold took a ton of big blows, he had to constantly reposition himself in the pocket before throwing and it did tamper with the quality of his throws as well as his ability to see the field. It is not okay to wait any longer and ignore OL in the draft. Reach if you have to reach. Just take a shot. Darnold is way too important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

He has a very good motor, pursuit, great natural athleticism, nice bend/dip and he doesn’t give up on a play.

But most of his sacks have come from a open path to the QB or him just blasting the tackle on his way for the sack, he sometimes over pursues and he’s hasn’t displayed any type of arsenal as far as pass rushing moves goes. I’ve said this a few other times in a few other threads but he’s a scary pick at #3 because I think he’s more of a situational pass rusher at this moment. Pass rushing moves can be taught but he’s going to be facing bigger tackles with so much better footwork and strength. Can he overpower grown men in the NFL like he did his collegian competition? I think he’s more Vic Beasley instead of Von Miller. I don’t love Allen at #3 honestly.

beasley was primarily a pass rusher at clemson. allen can set the edge in the run game and cover in space, he’s an every down player in any scheme

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Jonah Williams has given up 2 pressures in two years and has played every single game of his college career. He’s been extremely durable. He’s played full seasons as LT and RT.  Sam Darnold doesn’t need to be running for his life any longer, he cannot properly develop like that. Once falling into the crowd that thought he may be a LG at the next level, I’m starting to question even that, he might could play three different positions. It’s a lot of back and forth for me in draft season but I think, regardless, Jonah needs to be the pick. The OL was not middle of the pack, they got Darnold hurt, Darnold took a ton of big blows, he had to constantly reposition himself in the pocket before throwing and it did tamper with the quality of his throws as well as his ability to see the field. It is not okay to wait any longer and ignore OL in the draft. Reach if you have reach. Just take a shot. Darnold is way too important.

I am kinda worried that Allen for his speed and athleticism doesn't have the moves and twitch reactions off the snap to translate at next level. Agree with comment above, he seemed to feast of his strength and power alone. I may have Gholston PTSD.

I would really like to get an OL in the first round too and I think Macc is caught between a rock and hard place - he is clearly a bpa believer, but unless Jonah or Little test out huge at the combine they won't be the bpa at 3. I believe he will be under huge pressure to draft OL too given he knows the only reason he has a job right now is the plan he sold to CJ for drafting Sam and then surrounding him with support. He's going to need to try everything to trade back...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the post and appreciate the conclusions but the one thing that bothered me was this.  The post claims that the Jet offensive line ranked in the middle of the pack in pass protection last season.  Question?  Who did this rating, and what the HELL were they watching?  The Jets pass protection was the worst in the league with the exception of the  Arizona Cardinals.  They were absolutely awful the entire season, save for parts of the last two games prior to the Patriot Slaughter.  While I am a proponent of trading down to bolster that line and the rest of the roster or taking a monster like Josh Allen or Bosa,  this glaring need has to be addressed for any significant improvement to be made and more importantly to save SAM DARNOLD'S LIFE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, cant wait said:

beasley was primarily a pass rusher at clemson. allen can set the edge in the run game and cover in space, he’s an every down player in any scheme

He definitely got better in pass coverage but I don’t like him setting the edge as much as everyone else. in his final season he put up fantastic numbers but I’m all in for the LT/LG/RT hybrid OL at the moment.

heres an awesome write up on Josh Allen if you are interested.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/12/07/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-josh-allen/

NAME: Josh Allen

SCHOOL: Kentucky

CLASS: Senior

JERSEY: No. 41

RECRUITMENT RATING: 2-star

HT: 6’4

WT: 258 lbs

D.O.B.: 7/13/97

Run Defense – Not an ideal candidate to regularly be tasked with setting the edge against offensive tackles and has noticeably better success vs tight ends. Eyes are often in the backfield, causing his pad level to rise and the lack of leverage is detrimental to his ability to maintain his fit. Has most of his success defending the run slashing gaps and filtering through contact. Offers outstanding range to close down distances and make plays outside the numbers.

Pass Rush – Blend of burst, length and flexibility leads to regular success attacking the outside edge track. Vertical push puts major stress on the offensive tackles ability to reach his set points and keep pace. Does well to alter his stride lengths and use his feet to most effectively rush. More counters, better speed to power conversion and developing an inside move would take his already outstanding ability to the next level.

Burst – Explosive out of his stance and is capable of winning with pure speed off the edge. Rapidly accelerates in space and offers terrific range. Illustrates a blazing second gear when closing in on the quarterback. Occasionally false steps out of his stance which if cleaned up, will make him even more consistently effective.

Effort – Plays with a motor that consistently runs hot. Battles through contact and is willing to chase from distance. Developing more nuance with his counters will make accentuate his hot motor. Operates with urgency and makes his share of plays on account of hustle and will.

Hand Technique – Showcases the ability to clear his pads and soften the outside rush angle. Can stand to be more assertive and violent with his hands. Still room for growth in terms of timing and placement with his hand combating.

Flexibility – Loose in his hips and ankles which enable him to bend around the corner. Carries impressive speed through tight turns. Has fluid change of direction skills and is capable of springing outside to cut off running backs and quarterbacks rolling outside the pocket. Moves laterally with ease and is fluid in his coverage drops. Has exceptional range in coverage and consistently reaches his landmarks in zone coverage on account of his ability to fluidly drop and sink.

Processing – Leaves some meat on the bone because he hasn’t fully developed his vision to read the blockers set and take advantage. Range in coverage drops is wonderful but will sometimes miss a route to his zone because he is so focused on reaching his landmarks. Does well to remain square as a backside run defender.

Play Strength – Good but not great. Needs to get strong in the lower half to be a more consistent edge-setter against offensive tackles. Developing the ability to convert speed to power with more consistency would improve his pass rushing attack.

Versatility – Has been tasked with numerous responsibilities and performs admirably. Capable of putting his hand in the dirt or as a stand up defender. Effective dropping into coverage and has outstanding pass rush ability.


BEST TRAIT – Burst/Bend

WORST TRAIT – Counters

RED FLAGS – None

Josh Allen’s burst, bend and length provides an exciting foundation to work from in becoming a high-impact pass rusher in the NFL. That said, there is still room to grow in terms developing counters, improving his vision and adding play strength that indicates an extremely high ceiling as he evolves as a player. Allen has already proven his ability to function with his hand in the dirt, as a stand up edge and dropping into coverage making him a scheme-versatile defender that would thrive in a defensive front that is multiple. Allen has the tools needed contribute right away in the NFL with the makings of a dynamic playmaker at his position by year three.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NAME: Jonah Williams

SCHOOL: Alabama

CONFERENCE: SEC

POSITION: Offensive Tackle

CLASS: Junior

JERSEY: No. 73

RECRUITMENT RATING: 5-star

HT: 6’5

WT: 301 lbs

D.O.B.: 11/17/1997

Pass Sets –  Cadence is smooth, even keeled steps allow for good balance in initial pass sets. Takes effective angles in short sets, 45 degree sets and vertical pass sets to frame blocks prior to first contact effectively and shows great inside leverage to turn back counters. 

Length/Extension – Arm length doesn’t meet the prototype but framing of blocks courtesy of the feet and hips allows for masking of issues in a vast majority of instances. Timing of the hands is effective and carries hands in a ready to fire posture in his pass set.

Balance –Rarely caught over-extending over-top of his base. Sustains foot width through contact to generate movement and control when driving off the ball. Pass sets are patient and plays inside out. Mechanical approach in the lower body ensures feet stay tethered to the ground.

Hand Technique –Rarely needs to work to re-establish a punch on the chest, placement is terrific. Quick to shoot from the hip and plays with a lot of strength in the upper half to twist or torque a frame at the POA and generate favorable angles to seal the lane.

Power at POA –Double team ace and tenacious against edge defenders, will produce movement and swallow up defenders now with length but with tenacious feet and precision from the hands to win reps initially. Has the functional power to handle interior defenders one on one.

Football IQ –Polished three year starter who shows wonderful technical prowess on the edge. Exposure to predominantly gap/power concepts and is an effective communicator up front to confirm double teams and pass off opportunities with his guard.

Functional Athleticism –Smooth mover. Does well to mirror on the edge, although third efforts from defenders typically break contain. Athletic ability is much more present when pressing forward or pulling out in space, light on feet and has no issues breaking down a defender and establishing fit.

Anchor Ability –Thick lower half and wide hips provide ample mass below the waist to play with power, is not a high cut athlete along the line. Knee hinge and hip drop allow for a sudden anchor if caught with a perfectly timed punch.

Flexibility –Hips are loose, has no issue with opening hips on deeper pass sets to gain depth while under control. Clean hinge as a puller or when in space to get the chest squared up to defenders and sustain control of body. Pad level and hip coil is terrific in drive block reps.

Competitive Toughness –Tough, blue collar play style. Love his ability to win with power in both pass sets and in the run game. Rarely caught getting bubbled backwards, even if caught by a longer armed defender to get inside his breastplate.


BEST TRAIT – Power at POA

WORST TRAIT – Length

BEST FILM – Clemson (2017)

WORST FILM – Georgia (2017)

RED FLAGS – None

Jonah Williams is a technically refined offensive tackle who projects most favorably into a physical offensive front. Williams’ pass protection skills would be best utilized in quicker passing schemes to protect his lack of length from being exposed on deeper pass sets, but that’s no reason to dismiss his skills as an offensive tackle and move inside to guard. Should be a rookie starter at the NFL level and provide quality play on the outside by the end of his first year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, JetFanatic said:

ranked around the middle of the pack when it came to pass protection

Definitely didn't say the offensive line as a whole was ranked in the middle of the pack. 

 

27 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Jonah Williams has given up  only 2 sacks on 831 snaps and has played every single game of his college career. He’s been extremely durable. He’s played full seasons as LT and RT.  Sam Darnold doesn’t need to be running for his life any longer, he cannot properly develop like that. Once falling into the crowd that thought he may be a LG at the next level, I’m starting to question even that, he might could play three different positions. It’s a lot of back and forth for me in draft season but I think, regardless, Jonah needs to be the pick. The OL was not middle of the pack, they couldn’t get push in the run game, they got Josh McCown hurt, they got Darnold hurt, Darnold took a ton of big blows, he had to constantly reposition himself in the pocket before throwing and it did tamper with the quality of his throws as well as his ability to see the field. It is not okay to wait any longer and ignore OL in the draft. Reach if you have reach. Just take a shot. Darnold is way too important.

I'm not implying that Jonah is a bad pick at #3.  Again up until now he was my pick at #3.  While I understand the importance of the LT position especially with having Darnold I just think the gap between needing a LT and needing a pass rusher is gigantic with this roster.  I don't think Beachum was that bad last season and I just feel like they can't pass up Allen at #3.  You paint him out to be a situational pass rusher in the NFL and I just happen to think the exact opposite.  I see a guy that possesses above average skill in coverage, is decent against the run and elite at rushing the passer.  I have to be believe that he'll only get better in the NFL because the jump he took from his 2017 to 2018 season was a big one.  Maybe he'll add a spin move like most of the good ones do.  I also think that the Jets can afford to wait until 2020 to make LT a priority.  I also think we can all agree to disagree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, cant wait said:

beasley was primarily a pass rusher at clemson. allen can set the edge in the run game and cover in space, he’s an every down player in any scheme

I think adding a player with his skill set would make this defense under Gregg Williams very dangerous

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While in agreement that o line is number 1 need, and we have needed a pass rusher for what seems like forever, I can't help but see that Claiborne is a free agent and Trumaine had a poor year .  I would not be shocked to see macagnan go CB with the #3 if a trade down can't be worked out 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is more important, an edge rusher that might get a sack a game and a tackle or three a game?

Or a weapon or stud lineman than can help Sam Darnold score 4-5 TD's a game?

Edge rushers are overrated and overpaid.  Today's game is all about offense, and offense starts (and ends) with your O-line and your QB.

We have the QB.  We need the O-Line.  If we cannot justify it at #3, trade down (surely some OTHER sucker will buy into pass rush dreams) and get more picks for more Offensive prospects.

JMO.  Everything must be about building around Darnold and the Offense.  That is our only route to a Title.

If you trust MAcc's choice on Pass Rush, then maybe we should see how Williams and Shepard and Lee and etc. do under Williams before we got drafting yet more D-linemen.

We also have 100 million+ in cap space.  Sign one edge guy if we're so desperate for it (despite all the capital spent on it in the last decade).  Save the draft for our future all-pro Offense (hopefully).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it will be / should be Allen, but In moving to a 4-3, I think that puts Defensive Tackle in play.  Quinnen Williams, Ed Oliver, or maybe Dexter Lawrence

Also think offensive tackle is in play if one of them emerges as head and shoulders above the other in the draft build up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly think interior OL play was more of an issue than tackle play.

Think Long gets axed, guard and center are addressed in FA, and they draft a tackle day 2 and let him compete with Beachum for the job this year with the intention of starting him next year.

Big Allen fan. Think he’s going to be part of the conversation before #3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I like the post and appreciate the conclusions but the one thing that bothered me was this.  The post claims that the Jet offensive line ranked in the middle of the pack in pass protection last season.  Question?  Who did this rating, and what the HELL were they watching?  The Jets pass protection was the worst in the league with the exception of the  Arizona Cardinals.  They were absolutely awful the entire season, save for parts of the last two games prior to the Patriot Slaughter.  While I am a proponent of trading down to bolster that line and the rest of the roster or taking a monster like Josh Allen or Bosa,  this glaring need has to be addressed for any significant improvement to be made and more importantly to save SAM DARNOLD'S LIFE.

think of all the times you saw Sam escaping from absurd pressure.  When he escaped and was able to throw it away or even deliver the ball to his target, the OL doesn't get those "neg reps" as badly.  Slide a McCown in there instead (or a Josh Rosen)  and the negatives on the oline start to pile up fast.  

The Jets OL had to be bottom 5 or worse in the NFL last season.  Having a mobile QB doesn't exempt them from sucking.  I really want them to trade out of #3 and get as much draft capital as possible so they can draft a couple of OL and Edge, as well as WR in the first few rounds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

this is like an adultthread! nobody butt fumblimg others b/c they disagree with an opinion.

for me the butt fumble icon should be eradicated. a simple arrow down is sufficient

I just had to.  sorry.  was trying to be funny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

What is more important, an edge rusher that might get a sack a game and a tackle or three a game?

Or a weapon or stud lineman than can help Sam Darnold score 4-5 TD's a game?

Edge rushers are overrated and overpaid.  Today's game is all about offense, and offense starts (and ends) with your O-line and your QB.

We have the QB.  We need the O-Line.  If we cannot justify it at #3, trade down (surely some OTHER sucker will buy into pass rush dreams) and get more picks for more Offensive prospects.

JMO.  Everything must be about building around Darnold and the Offense.  That is our only route to a Title.

If you trust MAcc's choice on Pass Rush, then maybe we should see how Williams and Shepard and Lee and etc. do under Williams before we got drafting yet more D-linemen.

We also have 100 million+ in cap space.  Sign one edge guy if we're so desperate for it (despite all the capital spent on it in the last decade).  Save the draft for our future all-pro Offense (hopefully).

the same people who think josh allen is the pick at 3 will be bitching here when darnold is getting knocked on his ass week 1, wondering why the jets never take OL high in the draft.  

the problems with bpa are mainly 1) they are extremely subjective, and 2) they don't take into account how the players impact the performance of other players.  if jonah williams helps darnold become an all pro who cares if he was the 15th best ranked prospect in the draft?  

the sick money paid to qbs and the difficulty it is to find a good qb means teams are finally willing to pay good OL so the FA OL are weaker than it used to be.  now you can get a rb like bell but even decent OL are hard to find.  you must draft them and develop them yourselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I like the post and appreciate the conclusions but the one thing that bothered me was this.  The post claims that the Jet offensive line ranked in the middle of the pack in pass protection last season.  Question?  Who did this rating, and what the HELL were they watching?  The Jets pass protection was the worst in the league with the exception of the  Arizona Cardinals.  They were absolutely awful the entire season, save for parts of the last two games prior to the Patriot Slaughter.  While I am a proponent of trading down to bolster that line and the rest of the roster or taking a monster like Josh Allen or Bosa,  this glaring need has to be addressed for any significant improvement to be made and more importantly to save SAM DARNOLD'S LIFE.

Absolutely. The O line was a joke. Darnold was never able to get into a rhythm during the season. Sparks of brilliance mixed in with HELP Somebody Please HELP!!!! If we take an edge at 1 then a Macc better sign a top OT and C and redo the line. Those are the 2 positions that must be upgraded. Even 2 top notch additions will go a long way in keeping Sam upright.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Jonah Williams has given up  only 2 sacks on 831 snaps and has played every single game of his college career. He’s been extremely durable. He’s played full seasons as LT and RT.  Sam Darnold doesn’t need to be running for his life any longer, he cannot properly develop like that. Once falling into the crowd that thought he may be a LG at the next level, I’m starting to question even that, he might could play three different positions. It’s a lot of back and forth for me in draft season but I think, regardless, Jonah needs to be the pick. The OL was not middle of the pack, they couldn’t get push in the run game, they got Josh McCown hurt, they got Darnold hurt, Darnold took a ton of big blows, he had to constantly reposition himself in the pocket before throwing and it did tamper with the quality of his throws as well as his ability to see the field. It is not okay to wait any longer and ignore OL in the draft. Reach if you have reach. Just take a shot. Darnold is way too important.

I admit I am not paying as much attention to these college guys as some of you, but if what you wrote here is true?  damn - sign me up!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, derp said:

I honestly think interior OL play was more of an issue than tackle play.

Think Long gets axed, guard and center are addressed in FA, and they draft a tackle day 2 and let him compete with Beachum for the job this year with the intention of starting him next year.

Big Allen fan. Think he’s going to be part of the conversation before #3.

100%. the line cratered every play. the starting centered was removed for a back up.

it’s good that Long played ok at OG and Harrison stabilized C, but the situation needs to be improved.

What will they do with Long for example? He was a big signing. Is he going to be the team’s starting Guard going forward or will they try him back at C. Big questions that will define the approach to OL. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys are funny in thinking that if the Jets draft an edge rusher in the first, that they somehow would be ignoring the O-line.  Sure it would be nice if there was some stud no-brainer LT sitting there, but that might not be the situation.  Still decent depth at the position, and it’s likely that there will some good O-linemen available in the 3rd and 4th rounds.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...