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Giving credit where credit is due, regardless of past failures

TheNuuFaaolaExperience

By TheNuuFaaolaExperience
in NY Jets Forum

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Are you really suggesting that I should refrain from making a comment toward someone who has hijacked a new thread by repeating the exact same thing over and over and over and over again? Even when someone, who has acknowledged the bad stuff quite well, was trying to start a different conversation?  Officer Dcat can you show me your message board police badge so I can validate your authority? 

The OP is trying to look at things from a different angle and open a discussion on some of the things done which could add to a culture change etc. 

But nope. It didn't make it past the first reply to become a I hate Macchiato's thread. What fun we must be having. 

 

busting your chops Green Bean.  You make good points.  Like many others, my dislike of Maccagnan is intense.  I root for my team hard and I see him as a huge obstacle to the team's future success.  I want nothing but the best for this team.  I just hope the boob doesn't blow his 5th draft.  

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Miss Lonelyhearts

Miss Lonelyhearts

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Huh?... Are you saying you think those teams have better rosters? Because that's insane

The Jets have the worst roster not only in the league right now but in the history of professional sports excepting the Knicks at various points in the last twenty years and even in that case only because Darnold might be something.

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Skeptable

Skeptable

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

The Jets have the worst roster not only in the league right now but in the history of professional sports excepting the Knicks at various points in the last twenty years and even in that case only because Darnold might be something.

I was trying to have a real discussion but comments like this make me realize that there isn't enough intelligence out of some of the posters to have that kind of discussion 

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Skeptable

Skeptable

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No its not.  The only case to be made is the Raiders.  And they were intentionally tanking this past season. 

Bad coaching made the roster look worse... You are being overly biased against the team... I understand, you are pissed that they are in this position but I am talking for a real look at rosters... What makes cardinals better? Denver? Etc... You start to realize that they are better then they played and coaching was a huge issue. 

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Miss Lonelyhearts

Miss Lonelyhearts

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Bad coaching made the roster look worse... You are being overly biased against the team... I understand, you are pissed that they are in this position but I am talking for a real look at rosters... What makes cardinals better? Denver? Etc... You start to realize that they are better then they played and coaching was a huge issue. 

The Broncos have a top five defense. The Cardinals have Larry Fitzgerald, Chandler Jones, and Patrick Peterson.

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Skeptable

Skeptable

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

The Broncos have a top five defense. The Cardinals have Larry Fitzgerald, Chandler Jones, and Patrick Peterson.

Ranking of defense doesn't necessarily have any correlation to roster, its a better reflection of the coaching and how well they played together as a team...  To each their own... 

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Miss Lonelyhearts

Miss Lonelyhearts

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Skeptable said:

Broncos don't have a top 5 defense by any metric... they have Von Miller and Chris Harris. No QB and no RBs, and an old offensive line. Cardinals, Larry Fitz is going to retire, chandler jones and patrick peterson fine... but thats it.

DVOA.

Jones and Peterson is exactly two more elite players at premium positions than we have.

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Broncos don't have a top 5 defense by any metric... they have Von Miller and Chris Harris. No QB and no RBs, and an old offensive line. Cardinals, Larry Fitz is going to retire, chandler jones and patrick peterson fine... but thats it. 

If you think the presence of Von Miller, Chandler Jones and Patrick Peterson alone doesn't make those rosters better, you need to take the green goggles off.  

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GREENBEAN

GREENBEAN

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Dcat said:

busting your chops Green Bean.  You make good points.  Like many others, my dislike of Maccagnan is intense.  I root for my team hard and I see him as a huge obstacle to the team's future success.  I want nothing but the best for this team.  I just hope the boob doesn't blow his 5th draft.  

:-) 

You know you're my fave.  We're on the same team.  I'd just love to move away from the same dialog if we can.  We all know who thinks macc should have been jettisoned (no pun of course), and the handful of idiots like myself are. I liked the OP's attempt at changing the routine around here. It would have been nice to see it make it past the first reply before we dove back into the same pool. 

the boob, as you call him,  may just blow it for us. That's obviously possible, but I will say that I look forward to the conversations in a few months after FA and the Draft. I think we'll have a better idea of what's possible from that period alone. You may be right, but We may be delighted with the results. I tend to think we're going to have a monumental offseason that changes everything. It's already begun. I wanted McCarthy bad and was disappointed by the Gase hiring, but our trifecta of coaches looks pretty stout. I'm pretty happy with the hiring of Williams and the retention of Boyer.  That's what we have to go on moving forward. 

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bitonti

bitonti

Posted
Posted

But those teams don't have a really good strong safety, a 31 year old kick returner and a kicker that can hit from 60 and also miss extra points

If you think the presence of Von Miller, Chandler Jones and Patrick Peterson alone doesn't make those rosters better, you need to take the green goggles off.  


Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

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UntouchableCrew

UntouchableCrew

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

The Broncos have a top five defense. The Cardinals have Larry Fitzgerald, Chandler Jones, and Patrick Peterson.

Yes, the Broncos defense was so good the worst talent in the history of the NFL ran for 340 yards on them. The talent disparity was clearly on display in that game, woefully outclassed we were.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Skeptable said:

Bad coaching made the roster look worse... You are being overly biased against the team... I understand, you are pissed that they are in this position but I am talking for a real look at rosters... What makes cardinals better? Denver? Etc... You start to realize that they are better then they played and coaching was a huge issue. 

So, basically, the Jets are the only team hurt by bad coaching?  Every other team is playing to the level of their talent?

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Yes, the Broncos defense was so good the worst talent in the history of the NFL ran for 340 yards on them. The talent disparity was clearly on display in that game, woefully outclassed we were.

Does this also apply to why the Bills are better than us?

Or, does the second game not make that true anymore?

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UntouchableCrew

UntouchableCrew

Posted
Posted
Just now, TeddEY said:

Does this also apply to why the Bills are better than us?

Or, does the second game not make that true anymore?

I'm not arguing that there isn't parity or that the Broncos don't have better talent than we do.

I'm saying anyone who thinks we have the worst talent any professional team has had in the last 20 years is brain dead.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm not arguing that there isn't parity or that the Broncos don't have better talent than we do.

I'm saying anyone who thinks we have the worst talent any professional team has had in the last 20 years is brain dead.

I don't know about compared to other sports and blah blah blah but, I would say that if you put Darnold on one of those other "talent deprived" teams, you could possibly make the argument that they're "good."  Darnold on the Jets and the argument is, "we've got a strong safety and a lot of cap space and if we start actually drafting NFL players, maybe we'll be good some day."

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UntouchableCrew

UntouchableCrew

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't know about compared to other sports and blah blah blah but, I would say that if you put Darnold on one of those other "talent deprived" teams, you could possibly make the argument that they're "good."  Darnold on the Jets and the argument is, "we've got a strong safety and a lot of cap space and if we start actually drafting NFL players, maybe we'll be good some day."

To be clear -- you think if Darnold was on the Raiders, 49ers, or Cardinals they'd be "good" and that if Josh McCown had started every game for the Jets we'd be 0-16 because we have the worst roster in the league?

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

To be clear -- you think if Darnold was on the Raiders, 49ers, or Cardinals they'd be "good" and that if Josh McCown had started every game for the Jets we'd be 0-16 because we have the worst roster in the league?

Raiders as currently constructed, no.  But, Gruden clearly does not believe in Carr, and traded away his best player on offense and his best player of defense.  With Cooper and Mack, the Raiders are a significantly better team, no?

49ers, yeah.  Garropolo went 5-0 with them in 2017 and they were competitive this year in the 1st 3 games with him, having lost to one team still playing football, and to a team that just missed the playoffs.

Cardinals, meh.  Better than the Jets, for sure.  They have 3 players who play important positions, who are significantly better than anyone on the Jets.

As for McCown?  I don't know.  We'd be worse, and I think we saw that.  0-16 is impossible to say.  While it recently happened with the Browns, it's pretty rare that teams lose every game.  But, with McCown, yes, I think we're the least talented team in the NFL.  Easy to forget we were in contention for the #1 overall pick, up until the final whistle.

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UntouchableCrew

UntouchableCrew

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Raiders as currently constructed, no.  But, Gruden clearly does not believe in Carr, and traded away his best player on offense and his best player of defense.  With Cooper and Mack, the Raiders are a significantly better team, no?

49ers, yeah.  Garropolo went 5-0 with them in 2017 and they were competitive this year in the 1st 3 games with him, having lost to one team still playing football, and to a team that just missed the playoffs.

Cardinals, meh.  Better than the Jets, for sure.  They have 3 players who play important positions, who are significantly better than anyone on the Jets.

As for McCown?  I don't know.  We'd be worse, and I think we saw that.  0-16 is impossible to say.  While it recently happened with the Browns, it's pretty rare that teams lose every game.  But, with McCown, yes, I think we're the least talented team in the NFL.  Easy to forget we were in contention for the #1 overall pick, up until the final whistle.

These arguments are inherently pointless because it's impossible to separate coaching/situation out of performance to arrive at "talent" alone so it's really all just semantics. Agree to disagree.

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

These arguments are inherently pointless because it's impossible to separate coaching/situation out of performance to arrive at "talent" alone so it's really all just semantics. Agree to disagree.

That's why Jason's stat is so important.  No team has drafted players that ended up out of the NFL quicker than the Jets over the past 4 seasons:

Im assuming some of that was people wanting to see where Maccagnan of the Jets fits in so here you go. Since 2015 the Jets rank last in drafted players still in the league and tied for 22nd with players still on their own team.

 

If coaching was the only difference, why aren't Jet busts doing well elsewhere?  What are Chad Hansen and ArDarius Stewart up to these days?

That information has indeed already been separated out.  Maccagnan is quanitfiably the worst GM in the NFL at drafting. 

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Before Belichick and Brady the Pats were just the Jets in red uniforms.

I don't know why everyone seems to think we can't turn the page and be successful. Who knows if we will but it can happen. If you don't believe it can why would you waste precious hours of your life following this team.

Agree.  As dumb as the Johnsopn Bros are and as bad as Macc has been the Jets actually have a shot to turn it around

 

Top 3 draft pick, $100 million in cap room, Sam Darnold is the next great QB

 

As long as Gase manages the situation effectively I'm expecting 9-10 wins next year

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UntouchableCrew

UntouchableCrew

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's why Jason's stat is so important.  No team has drafted players that ended up out of the NFL quicker than the Jets over the past 4 seasons:

Im assuming some of that was people wanting to see where Maccagnan of the Jets fits in so here you go. Since 2015 the Jets rank last in drafted players still in the league and tied for 22nd with players still on their own team.

 

If coaching was the only difference, why aren't Jet busts doing well elsewhere?  What are Chad Hansen and ArDarius Stewart up to these days?

That information has indeed already been separated out.  Maccagnan is quanitfiably the worst GM in the NFL at drafting. 

I'm not arguing that the guys who are too bad to make the Jets are good players. I'm not arguing that Mike Maccagnan has done a good job.

I'm arguing that the Jets roster, while bad, isn't "by far the worst in the NFL" which seems to be the attitude of many here. It's ridiculous hyperbole and doesn't hold the coaches accountable for failing to get more out of these players.

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm not arguing that the guys who are too bad to make the Jets are good players. I'm not arguing that Mike Maccagnan has done a good job.

I'm arguing that the Jets roster, while bad, isn't "by far the worst in the NFL" which seems to be the attitude of many here. It's ridiculous hyperbole and doesn't hold the coaches accountable for failing to get more out of these players.

As bad as the Jets roster was last season it was not 4-12 bad.  A semi-professional coaching staff probably gets us to 7-8 wins

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southparkcpa

southparkcpa

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:


Wow. What fresh information. I want to thank you for your list of inadequacies from our GM. I haven’t heard any of that before and it’s really great to have someone finally shed some light on what macc has done over the past four years. Ya know what? We should creat a thread where we discuss whether or not macc should have been retained or just fired along with Bowles. I’m sincerely interested to see what the rest of board thinks on this one.


The original poster is trying to get us out of the same damn cycle of the negativity and try to look at things from a different perspective. Are we completely unable to shake the same hum drum we’ve been beating for the past 8 months?

Jeesh.




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

You get your rocks off hoping and praying?  Woody loves that.   I simply brought facts in.  You don’t like facts? Put me on ignore.  I think I’ll survive.   

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Miss Lonelyhearts

Miss Lonelyhearts

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Sam being on the roster upgrades the overall talent pool.  Unless you think Bowles got screwed this roster did underachieve

Look. I get it. The Jets are so screwed that a lot of us would rather just not think about it. But you know what? If you're not gonna think about it you probably shouldn't talk about it either. This thread has been over since that doofus figured out the idea of using objective metrics was both his idea in the first place and not going well. Just stop it. Never once have you guys been right. We'll just get weapons. We'll just fire Schottenheimer. We'll just change to a 3-4. If all of the team's moves are judged on hope there is no reason for them to start making those moves based on logic and reason. I'm sick of being stuck rooting for the team you guys deserve.

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