Giving credit where credit is due, regardless of past failures

[Jet_Engine1]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Is it possible? Sure. Can you personally identify how Adam Gase enhanced Manning's game? It seems like no one can tell me what Gase did to enhance a lock 1st ballot HOF'er/multiple time MVP's game. But I have an idea. Let me tell you. 

Manning going to the Broncos and having Emmanuel Sanders, Demaryius Thomas and Julius Thomas in their primes, and having the best defense he's ever had in his career certainly enhanced his game. Peyton Manning never had such a complete team around him. 

Maybe it was that. 

Peyton can think whatever he wants, the bottomline is that Peyton Manning was the OC of the Broncos and he had the best offensive weapons and defensive weapons he's ever had on 1 team. There's no denying THAT fact. You've presented nothing to supported the bolded "credit is due". And im going to prove it with your own words. 

Lets see how awesome this credit is. 

#1. You state that Tanne was nothing more than a mediocre QB at best, which is you making excuses. Tanny played his first 4 seasons before Gase, throwing for more than 4,000 yards in his prior 2 seasons and over 20 TD's in both and never missed a game. With Gase Tannehill never passed past 3000 yards, 20 TD's never played a full season and missed the entire 2017 season. What credit are you providing here? Do you mean that 2016 playoff year? Lets break that season down then. 

From week 1 to week 5 the Dolphins started the season 1-4. the four teams they lost to were Seattle (10-5-1), Pats (14-2), Bengals (6-9) and Titans (9-7) and beat the Browns (1-15). The Pats, Seahawks and Titans were 1st in their divisions and the Bengals were 6-9. The Browns that season were 1-15. They lost to every good to mediocre team. 

From weeks 6 to week 13 the Fins beat the Steelers (11-5), Buffalo (7-9), Jets (5-11), Chargers (5-11), Rams (4-12), 49ers (2-14), Cards (7-8-1) and lost to the Ravens (8-8). 

In other words, this Fins playoff run was ALOT like the 2015 Jets year with Fitzpatrick. When the Jets went 10-6 playing a ton of scrubs, losing to the majority of mediocre to great teams while stealing a game to make it look better than what it was. 

The only team that the Fins beat with a winning record was the Steelers. Every other team had a losing record. They had arguably the easiest schedule in the league that year, made the playoffs, met the same Steelers team that they won against earlier in the season and got their asses handed to them. 

2017 Tannehill is out and 2018 Tannehill looked terrible. 

 

What credit are you talking about here? And im being serious. In 13 games in 2016, Tannehill, coached by Gase, beat 1 team with a winning record. Since we're speaking about the quality of wins here. Like you said, proof's in the pudding @BurnleyJet

What credit are you guys talking about? Guys who have credible backgrounds, their backgrounds speak for themselves. Yet for some reason, there's nothing but questions here. 

No, im not giving credit to an OC that had Peyton Manning when I know Peyton Manning is the OC and im not giving credit for playing 13 games with Tannehill winning all your games against losing teams and beating 1 team with a winning record and then getting destroyed by that same team when you saw them in the playoffs. 

 

Im not giving credit to that. I'll give credit when the credit is actually due. 

So, you don't like the QB, and you don't like the GM, and you don't like ownership, and now you are posting 8 paragraph manifestos about why you don't like the new Head Coach. After spending all year posting in Jets game threads about the Browns and Mayfield, and "not having time" to post anything positive on days Darnold played excellently...so, why are you here?

Aren't you Browns fan, now? Just, you know, keeping it real. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Gase didn't help Manning because he was Peyton Manning.

Gase didn't help Tannehill, but it's his fault that he didn't turn a JAG into Peyton Manning. 

I understand your point, and it's awful. 

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Exactly what I'm saying. Y our position is incorerct and people will see that. Thanks.

You conceded bro. or do you want to reverse it? I have no problem with you showing me how im wrong. All this "people will see it" means nothing when just a second ago you said this...

32 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I don't care what folks claim. I was replying directly to you.

Well,^^^^^^^ keep it that way. Dont care what people will see, you're dealing with me directly right now. 

 

 

[LIJetsFan]

 

overall, Woody->Chris=plus

then vs now:

HC reports to GM=plus

Mac->Mac=possible plus since he has one year more experience

Bowles->Gase=plus

Offensive minded HC=plus

Rogers->Williams=plus

retaining Boyer=plus

sophomore FQB=plus

cap space+draft slot+easier schedule=plus

I'm sure there are more I'm missing but so many in this thread are prediction doom and gloom as the likely 2019 outcome that it boggles the mind. 

 

oh one more..whatever influence Bowles had over Mac on the roster vs whatever influence Gase has on Mac over the roster=plus  

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You conceded bro. or do you want to reverse it? I have no problem with you showing me how im wrong. All this "people will see it" means nothing when just a second ago you said this...

Well,^^^^^^^ keep it that way. Dont care what people will see, you're dealing with me directly right now. 

 

 

Your argument is awful, but yet you continue to defend it. I commend you for your preserverence, even though you are wrong. I did concede that you are losing this argument, but I guess you saw right past my obvious swerve. A real sharp one, aint ya?

I was using your own words to mock you, but you didn't quite catch that one, so maybe you aren't the brightest bulb in the bunch.

I'll gladly keep winning this argument if you want, but I'd rather just agree that this isn't going anywhere, especially when one of us (you) is wrong.

Remember, I don't have to defend my stance on YOUR opinion. The honus is on your to convince other's that you are correct.

[HelenOfTroy]

On 1/18/2019 at 11:47 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

That's your trump card?  We don't even know yet that he's better than Josh Rosen. 

And you don’t know if Mayfield will end up better than Darnold.....you can play this any way you want.

The ghosts of QB OROY in the past tell us that a good, or bad, rookie year tells us nothing about the future.

Can’t blame Jets fans for having hope. -Signed, someone that has seen The Shawshank Redemption a million times.

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

And you don’t know if Mayfield will end up better than Darnold.....you can play this any way you want.
The ghosts of QB OROY in the past tell us that a good, or bad rookie year tells us nothing.  

Obviously. But you didn’t see the context. He was using Darnold as a way to “prove” we have a better roster than the Cardinals or other teams. Which of course is, at best, presumptuous.

I like Darnold more than Rosen, but that doesn’t mean their career arcs are set in stone.

[HelenOfTroy]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Obviously. But you didn’t see the context. He was using Darnold as a way to “prove” we have a better roster than the Cardinals or other teams. Which of course is, at best, presumptuous.

I like Darnold more than Rosen, but that doesn’t mean their career arcs are set in stone.

 

Of course not, but that is what fans do.

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Your argument is awful, but yet you continue to defend it. I commend you for your preserverence, even though you are wrong. I did concede that you are losing this argument, but I guess you saw right past my obvious swerve. A real sharp one, aint ya?

I was using your own words to mock you, but you didn't quite catch that one, so maybe you aren't the brightest bulb in the bunch.

I'll gladly keep winning this argument if you want, but I'd rather just agree that this isn't going anywhere, especially when one of us (you) is wrong.

Remember, I don't have to defend my stance on YOUR opinion. The honus is on your to convince other's that you are correct.

When people make arguments they need to be prepared to support it. You should be doing something similar. I dont need you to commend me for something that's just commonplace when it comes to debating a topic. You should be following suit or accepting the fact that you cant. 

WTF is happening right now?? lmao. 

Im good bro. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

On 1/18/2019 at 2:24 AM, Villain The Foe said:

Im not too sure on Culture Change. Gase is the same guy that when fired former players traded to other teams took their pleasure to twitter. Kenyan Drake, arguably their best offensive player had requested a trade, I just heard on Turn on the Jets podcast that there was a defensive player this past season that took himself out of a football game...but what's worse is that not only did Gase not know that this player pulled himself out of the game until when the Press questioned him about why this player left the game, but since Gase didnt know until after the game, that means that his own coaching staff didnt even tell him what happened. Gase getting into a cursing match with the owner of the team, etc. 

There's nothing that would indicate that there's a culture change with Gase, atleast a change that we can view as positive. I dont see any credit that is due with this hire. Most folks are simply happy that we got Gregg Williams on the staff and that's because we dont trust Gase. 

I hope he can develop Sam, but this dude  gets unnecessary credit for nonsense. Peyton Manning was already a locked HOF'er before ever getting to Gase. Cutler had a nice season under Gase but the offense wasnt even top 20 that season. In denver the Broncos had a top 1 and 2 offense under Gase (2013 and 14), but the year before Gase became OC the Broncos had a top 2 defense (2012), which means that the offense was pretty much ran by Peyton Manning. 

Then we look at his latest work with Ryan Tannehill. How did he look this season? 

 

There's justifiable reasons not to like this hire. Many of us Jets fans would love to be wrong because frankly, we're tired of all the f'ing losing. But with that said, this hire along with maintaining Maccagnan looks like more of the same stupidity by ownership. 

There's no credit to be given here at all.  

 

For the folks at home, this is what started this "debate." 

Gase gets no credit for Peyton Manning because he was already Peyton Manning, and you know what, I don't disagree. Manning was going to be Manning no matter what. You don't get to turn around and then say that he couldn't help Tannehill. Nobody could help him. At his best, he is slightly above average. At his worst, he is Ryan Tannehill. 

I was trying to look at the positives of this upcoming year. It wasn't a coronation  of a new dynasty. Bringing in a coach specifically to develop Darnold is a positive, at the moment, and you really will have a hard time convincing most people otherwise.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

When people make arguments they need to be prepared to support it.

 

Dude. You are SPOT on! Bravo!

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Is it possible? Sure. Can you personally identify how Adam Gase enhanced Manning's game? It seems like no one can tell me what Gase did to enhance a lock 1st ballot HOF'er/multiple time MVP's game. But I have an idea. Let me tell you. 

Manning going to the Broncos and having Emmanuel Sanders, Demaryius Thomas and Julius Thomas in their primes, and having the best defense he's ever had in his career certainly enhanced his game. Peyton Manning never had such a complete team around him. 

Maybe it was that. 

Peyton can think whatever he wants, the bottomline is that Peyton Manning was the OC of the Broncos and he had the best offensive weapons and defensive weapons he's ever had on 1 team. There's no denying THAT fact. You've presented nothing to supported the bolded "credit is due". And im going to prove it with your own words. 

Lets see how awesome this credit is. 

#1. You state that Tanne was nothing more than a mediocre QB at best, which is you making excuses. Tanny played his first 4 seasons before Gase, throwing for more than 4,000 yards in his prior 2 seasons and over 20 TD's in both and never missed a game. With Gase Tannehill never passed past 3000 yards, 20 TD's never played a full season and missed the entire 2017 season. What credit are you providing here? Do you mean that 2016 playoff year? Lets break that season down then. 

From week 1 to week 5 the Dolphins started the season 1-4. the four teams they lost to were Seattle (10-5-1), Pats (14-2), Bengals (6-9) and Titans (9-7) and beat the Browns (1-15). The Pats, Seahawks and Titans were 1st in their divisions and the Bengals were 6-9. The Browns that season were 1-15. They lost to every good to mediocre team. 

From weeks 6 to week 13 the Fins beat the Steelers (11-5), Buffalo (7-9), Jets (5-11), Chargers (5-11), Rams (4-12), 49ers (2-14), Cards (7-8-1) and lost to the Ravens (8-8). 

In other words, this Fins playoff run was ALOT like the 2015 Jets year with Fitzpatrick. When the Jets went 10-6 playing a ton of scrubs, losing to the majority of mediocre to great teams while stealing a game to make it look better than what it was. 

The only team that the Fins beat with a winning record was the Steelers. Every other team had a losing record. They had arguably the easiest schedule in the league that year, made the playoffs, met the same Steelers team that they won against earlier in the season and got their asses handed to them. 

2017 Tannehill is out and 2018 Tannehill looked terrible. 

 

What credit are you talking about here? And im being serious. In 13 games in 2016, Tannehill, coached by Gase, beat 1 team with a winning record. Since we're speaking about the quality of wins here. Like you said, proof's in the pudding @BurnleyJet

What credit are you guys talking about? Guys who have credible backgrounds, their backgrounds speak for themselves. Yet for some reason, there's nothing but questions here. 

No, im not giving credit to an OC that had Peyton Manning when I know Peyton Manning is the OC and im not giving credit for playing 13 games with Tannehill winning all your games against losing teams and beating 1 team with a winning record and then getting destroyed by that same team when you saw them in the playoffs. 

 

Im not giving credit to that. I'll give credit when the credit is actually due. 

You present  a very strong case , and I get it.  Believe me.  But it's less complicated than that.  Peyton Manning himself gave Gase credit and the accolades he heaped upon him.  Not me, not you and not the press.  The words came from his mouth.  No gun was put to his head, he's not Gase brother as far as Ican tell, and has a reputation to be considered, when giving his "endorsement".  Further, the stats from the two seasons under Gase as the Broncos Coordinator ranked them first and second in the league. That is not in dispute, despite your crediting of the supporting cast.   Point number 2.  No matter what you cite, the fact remains that Ryan Tannehill is a mediocre Quarterback.  You cite his yardage statistics.  4,000 Yard seasons are quickly becoming the "norm" in today's NFL,  an educated fan such as yourself knows that.  Witness the success of quarterbacks like "sh*tspatrick", who approached the mark twice and is considered nothing more than a "journeyman".  Matt Schaub passed for 4k yards three times as did Trent Green,  John " F'in" Kitna did it twice.  None of these quarterbacks is headed for Canton. Under Gase, Miami ran a more balanced offense than previous years, by design. The fact his numbers went down can be attributed to that fact.  Is it your contention that Tannehill got injured because of Gase?  That is simply foolish. You cite the strength of the supporting cast in discounting Manning's successes with Gase in Denver, yet you refuse to give the supporting cast credit for Tannehill's success under Gase in the 2016 season.  You can't have it both ways.  Gase is now gone from Miami, and still, they are moving on from Tannehill. If Gase were the problem how do you explain the sentiment that Tannehill is not the solution moving forward.  In fact this question has popped up repeatedly during Tannehill's time in Miami pre-Gase and post Gase. Let's look at the "strength of schedule" argument.  How does this bolster your argument that Gase isn't a good Coach.  They say that good teams, to be successful, should beat up on the weaker ones on the schedule,  The 2016 Dolphins did that, as you pointed  out.  The "vaunted" Patriots have made a "Dynasty" out of doing just that, padding win totals, year after year, with domination of the Jets, Dolphins, and Bills,  So what?  No one discounts the legacy of the "GOAT Bellicheat" by saying,  "well year after year, he pads his win totals by beating up on the, Sisters of the weak".  Do they?  Could their playoff run possibly be the result of a team growing,  adjusting and meshing  to the changes and schemes being instituted by a 1st year Head Coach, one Adam Gase?  Why is that not the case.  Quarterbacks like Coaches  sometimes get too much of the credit and too much of the blame.  Comes with  the territory.  To suggest that Gase gets no credit for the success in Denver and Miami, yet gets all of the blame, is not fair, and seems personal.  As with this discussion it's not personal, just giving a little bit  of credit.  Just like Peyton Manning.

[BurnleyJet]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Thanks. For some reason though, this realness forces other people to talk about how I was wrong about a QB 4 years ago. 

I dont know how it relates to this topic, but.....lmao. 

More like you talked about him for four years.

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

You present  a very strong case , and I get it.  Believe me.  But it's less complicated than that.  Peyton Manning himself gave Gase credit and the accolades he heaped upon him.  Not me, not you and not the press.  The words came from his mouth.  No gun was put to his head, he's not Gase brother as far as Ican tell, and has a reputation to be considered, when giving his "endorsement".  Further, the stats from the two seasons under Gase as the Broncos Coordinator ranked them first and second in the league. That is not in dispute, despite your crediting of the supporting cast.   Point number 2.  No matter what you cite, the fact remains that Ryan Tannehill is a mediocre Quarterback.  You cite his yardage statistics.  4,000 Yard seasons are quickly becoming the "norm" in today's NFL,  an educated fan such as yourself knows that.  Witness the success of quarterbacks like "sh*tspatrick", who approached the mark twice and is considered nothing more than a "journeyman".  Matt Schaub passed for 4k yards three times as did Trent Green,  John " F'in" Kitna did it twice.  None of these quarterbacks is headed for Canton. Under Gase, Miami ran a more balanced offense than previous years, by design. The fact his numbers went down can be attributed to that fact.  Is it your contention that Tannehill got injured because of Gase?  That is simply foolish. You cite the strength of the supporting cast in discounting Manning's successes with Gase in Denver, yet you refuse to give the supporting cast credit for Tannehill's success under Gase in the 2016 season.  You can't have it both ways.  Gase is now gone from Miami, and still, they are moving on from Tannehill. If Gase were the problem how do you explain the sentiment that Tannehill is not the solution moving forward.  In fact this question has popped up repeatedly during Tannehill's time in Miami pre-Gase and post Gase. Let's look at the "strength of schedule" argument.  How does this bolster your argument that Gase isn't a good Coach.  They say that good teams, to be successful, should beat up on the weaker ones on the schedule,  The 2016 Dolphins did that, as you pointed  out.  The "vaunted" Patriots have made a "Dynasty" out of doing just that, padding win totals, year after year, with domination of the Jets, Dolphins, and Bills,  So what?  No one discounts the legacy of the "GOAT Bellicheat" by saying,  "well year after year, he pads his win totals by beating up on the, Sisters of the weak".  Do they?  Could their playoff run possibly be the result of a team growing,  adjusting and meshing  to the changes and schemes being instituted by a 1st year Head Coach, one Adam Gase?  Why is that not the case.  Quarterbacks like Coaches  sometimes get too much of the credit and too much of the blame.  Comes with  the territory.  To suggest that Gase gets no credit for the success in Denver and Miami, yet gets all of the blame, is not fair, and seems personal.  As with this discussion it's not personal, just giving a little bit  of credit.  Just like Peyton Manning.

First, I appreciate you staying on topic. There's not alot of that in this thread. With that said, let me use your scenario regarding with what Peyton said, to show that it's not about what Peyton said. But before doing so I will keep it fair, meaning that there will be no personal opinion about what I think Gase contributed as an OC/ QB coach to Peyton. Im just going to use your same scenario to present a point that I want you to ponder. 

#1. Peyton is talking about his relationship with Adam Gase as his former QB coach/OC, not his head coach. Adam Gase is the Head Coach of the Jets, not the offensive coordinator or QB coach. 

#2. Peyton Manning could have said the same thing to the Owner of Miami, what did that do for Miami's situation? 

#3. Sure, I presented Tannehills stats and team record in 2016. Why? Because Jets fans are using Tannehill and the Dolphins 2016 season as something that deserves due credit. Im only challenging that with facts. The facts are, The Peyton Manning endorsed Adam Gase not only did not get more out of Tannehill than prior coaches, but he actually regressed under him. You see, so this is beyond weather or not you think Tannehill as a talent is mediocre, but this is about Gase getting the best out of his QB...bottomline. And the fact is, Tannehill regressed. 

#4. In 2017 Tannehill got injured for the season, and Gase, being in charge of the 53 man roster (not the GM), decided to go with a name that he's familiar with as an OC. That QB was Jay Cutler, another guy that some folks provide as evidence on Gase being some sort of QB whisperer by getting the most of out his QB's.  Gase was Cutler's OC in 2015, a season where Cutler regressed from his 2014 stats under OC Aaron Kromer. But anyway, Cutler comes in, a guy who's familiar with Adam Gase's offense and absolutely stinks up the joint. This isnt Ryan Tannehill, this is a guy who's been in his system in the past. 

The only thing that is giving Adam Gase credibility is exactly what your response shows. Peyton Manning's endorsement. However, here's the problem. His production isnt as strong as the person endorsing him. Peyton Manning endorsed Gase when he left Denver and went to Chicago in 2015.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/peyton-manning-says-bears-others-will-be-impressed-with-adam-gase/

Afterwards, Cutler had statistically a worse season under Gase than the year prior. Gase stays for just one season and gets the opportunity to be the HC for the Dolphins in 2016. You know who endorses it? Peyton Manning. 

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2016/05/09/peyton-manning-said-met-ryan-tannehill-miami/39513/

 

So it's 2019 and you know what everyone's talking about? 1. How he was the OC for Peyton Manning, when lets be honest, we know that Peyton Manning is Peyton Manning's OC. And 2. Peyton Manning endorsed Gase for the Jets job. 

Manning endorsed every job. But do you know what I dont see? I dont see any of the QB's that Gase worked with based on Peyton's endorsement, endorsing Gase right now. THAT is what we should be looking closely at. 

All im saying is that we should look at the entire picture before we go off the word of Peyton Manning because they're not brothers, Todd Bowles and Kacy Rodgers aren't brothers either, but I bet that for the most part if Bowles is employed somewhere, that means Kacy Rogers will be employed somewhere. That relationship is as good as brothers then. 

In Chicago The Bears went from 5 wins in 2014 to 6 wins but lower stats from Cutler in 2015. In 2016 The Dolphins went to the playoffs and in tannehills 13 games played, he lost to every team with a winning record outside of the steelers, meaning that every win was from a team with a losing record. In 2018 Tannehill regressed from what we seen from him playing bad teams in 2016. 

 

What im saying I think should be at least taken into consideration. It's one thing to accept someone's endorsement, it's another to talk about this guy being due credit because of who's endorsing him when his actual production is what really matters, and if not for that Peyton endorsement Gase would be a JAG coach. 

 

Good response though. 

[Villain The Foe]

8 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

More like you talked about him for four years.

With the help of folks keeping it alive. 

That fact alone is why I won't mind continuing to talk about Baker. It's fair game when Im wrong, so deal with it when im correct. 

With that said though, this is obviously not the thread to be having this topic. If you want to express more of your salt just PM me. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

16 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

First, I appreciate you staying on topic. There's not alot of that in this thread. With that said, let me use your scenario regarding with what Peyton said, to show that it's not about what Peyton said. But before doing so I will keep it fair, meaning that there will be no personal opinion about what I think Gase contributed as an OC/ QB coach to Peyton. Im just going to use your same scenario to present a point that I want you to ponder. 

#1. Peyton is talking about his relationship with Adam Gase as his former QB coach/OC, not his head coach. Adam Gase is the Head Coach of the Jets, not the offensive coordinator or QB coach. 

#2. Peyton Manning could have said the same thing to the Owner of Miami, what did that do for Miami's situation? 

#3. Sure, I presented Tannehills stats and team record in 2016. Why? Because Jets fans are using Tannehill and the Dolphins 2016 season as something that deserves due credit. Im only challenging that with facts. The facts are, The Peyton Manning endorsed Adam Gase not only did not get out more from Tannehill than prior coaches, but he actually regressed under him. You see, so this is beyond weather or not you think Tannehill as a talent is mediocre, but this is about Gase getting the best out of his QB...bottomline. And the fact is, Tannehill regressed. 

#4. In 2017 Tannehill got injured for the season, and Gase, being in charge of the 53 man roster (not the GM), decided to go with a name that he's familiar with as an OC. That QB was Jay Cutler, another guy that some folks provide as evidence on Gase being some sort of QB whisperer by getting the most of out his QB's.  Gase was Cutler's OC in 2015, a season where Cutler regressed from his 2014 stats under OC Aaron Kromer. But anyway, Cutler comes in, a guy who's familiar with Adam Gase's offense and absolutely stinks up the joint. This isnt Ryan Tannehill, this is a guy who's been in his system in the past. 

The only thing that is giving Adam Gase credibility is exactly what your response shows. Peyton Manning's endorsement. However, here's the problem. His production isnt as strong as the person endorsing him. Peyton Manning endorsed Gase when he left Denver and went to Chicago in 2015.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/peyton-manning-says-bears-others-will-be-impressed-with-adam-gase/

Afterwards, Cutler had statistically a worse season under Gase than the year prior. Gase stays for just one season and gets the opportunity to be the HC for the Dolphins in 2016. You know who endorses it? Peyton Manning. 

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2016/05/09/peyton-manning-said-met-ryan-tannehill-miami/39513/

 

So it's 2019 and you know what everyone's talking about? 1. How he was the OC for Peyton Manning, when lets be honest, we know that Peyton Manning is Peyton Manning's OC. And 2. Peyton Manning endorsed Gase for the Jets job. 

Manning endorsed every job. But do you know what I dont see? I dont see any of the QB's that Gase worked with based on Peyton's endorsement, endorsing Gase right now. THAT is what we should be looking closely at. 

All im saying is that we should look at the entire picture before we go off the word of Peyton Manning because they're not brothers, Todd Bowles and Kacy Rodgers aren't brother either, but I bet that for the most part if Bowles is employed somewhere, that means Kacy Rogers will be employed somewhere. That relationship is as good as brothers then. 

In Chicago The Bears went from 5 wins in 2014 to 6 wins but lower stats from Cutler in 2015. In 2016 The Dolphins went to the playoffs and in tannehills 13 games played, he lost to every team with a winning record outside of the steelers, meaning that every win was from a team with a losing record. In 2018 Tannehill regressed from what we seen from him playing bad teams in 2016. 

 

What im saying I think should be at least taken into consideration. It's one thing to accept someone's endorsement, it's another to talk about this guy being due credit because of who's endorsing him when his actual production is what really matters, and if not for that Peyton endorsement Gase would be a JAG coach. 

 

Good response though. 

I appreciate your comments/thoughts.  I don't want to beat a dead horse and I'm sure you get my points, as I do yours.  One last point though.  Knowing of Jay Cutler, as I'm sure you do, what makes you think that a man who by all accounts "wouldn't endorse toilet paper while he was taking a dump in the woods" would ever endorse anybody,  much less Gase.  By the way, under Gase,  Cutler did have a career best 92.3 passer rating, and reduced his interceptions from 18 to 11.  He also said that he'd "wished he was staying with us", upon Gase departure, Tannehill in Gase first year threw the ball 200 times less than the previous year, in three less starts.  With similar attempts Tannehill's  passing yardage, in his first year under Gase, would have eclipsed 4k yards and exceeded his prior best career passing yardage.  His QB rating improved and he was sacked 16 less times. That was my point. Regards

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I appreciate your comments/thoughts.  I don't want to beat a dead horse and I'm sure you get my points, as I do yours.  One last point though.  Knowing of Jay Cutler, as I'm sure you do, what makes you think that a man who by all accounts "wouldn't endorse toilet paper while he was taking a dump in the woods" would ever endorse anybody,  much less Gase.  Regards,

The appreciation is mutual. And to respond to your point. 

If Cutler was as giving with endorsements as Peyton is with his, would it even matter if Cutler endorsed Gase? How about Tannehill? 

That's what im getting at. That endorsement is coming from a QB who already had the street cred as a legit QB before ever meeting Gase. 

Peyton met Gase as a HOF'er legend, he parted ways at a HOF'er legend. 

Cutler met Gase as an underachieving douche turd, he parted ways as an underachieving douche turd. 

Tannehill met Gase as a mediocre QB, he parted ways as a regressed mediocre QB who's about to lose his job and be cut. 

 

All im asking is what credit is this dude truly due?

Regards. 

[BurnleyJet]

20 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

With the help of folks keeping it alive. 

That fact alone is why I won't mind continuing to talk about Baker. It's fair game when Im wrong, so deal with it when im correct. 

With that said though, this is obviously not the thread to be having this topic. If you want to express more of your salt just PM me. 

You may want to try http://thebrownsboard.com/ for all your Baker needs.

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I don't care what folks claim. I was replying directly to you.

So you start not caring about what folks claim, 

5 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

For the folks at home, this is what started this "debate." 

But you end by wanting folks to stake their claim. lol. 

Let me quickly expose then dismantle. 

Quote

Gase gets no credit for Peyton Manning because he was already Peyton Manning, and you know what, I don't disagree. Manning was going to be Manning no matter what. You don't get to turn around and then say that he couldn't help Tannehill. Nobody could help him. At his best, he is slightly above average. At his worst, he is Ryan Tannehill. 

If "Peyton was going to be Peyton no matter what", then why are you expecting credit to be sent Gase's way?

If "no one could help Tannehill, which obviously would include Gase, then why are you expecting credit to be sent Gase's way? 

Quote

I was trying to look at the positives of this upcoming year. It wasn't a coronation  of a new dynasty. Bringing in a coach specifically to develop Darnold is a positive, at the moment, and you really will have a hard time convincing most people otherwise.

If Peyton was was going to be Peyton no matter what, and no one could help Tannehill, then what credentials/QB's has Gase dealt with that shows that he's the guy for the job when it comes to developing Sam Darnold? Jay Cutler? 

Oh let me guess, "Cutler is Cutler no matter what and no one could help Cutler".

 

Question. Since you personally believe that Gase is the guy for the job. What QB was Gase responsible for that parted ways a better QB after Gase Tutelage? 

 

 

lol. Trust, this isnt a debate, but a massacre. You just dont see it. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

You may want to try http://thebrownsboard.com/ for all your Baker needs.

 

 

I get all my Baker needs from folks like you right here.  

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

21 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

So you start not caring about what folks claim, 

But you end by wanting folks to stake their claim. lol. 

Let me quickly expose then dismantle. 

If "Peyton was going to be Peyton no matter what", then why are you expecting credit to be sent Gase's way?

If "no one could help Tannehill, which obviously would include Gase, then why are you expecting credit to be sent Gase's way? 

If Peyton was was going to be Peyton no matter what, and no one could help Tannehill, then what credentials/QB's has Gase dealt with that shows that he's the guy for the job when it comes to developing Sam Darnold? Jay Cutler? 

Oh let me guess, "Cutler is Cutler no matter what and no one could help Cutler".

 

Question. Since you personally believe that Gase is the guy for the job. What QB was Gase responsible for that parted ways a better QB after Gase Tutelage? 

 

 

lol. Trust, this isnt a debate, but a massacre. You just dont see it. 

 

Uh, no. You are getting destroyed. I agree. This is a massacre, and I see it. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Uh, no. You are getting destroyed. I agree. This is a massacre, and I see it. 

So this is your answer to the 4 clear and direct questions directed to you? 

lol. Im good with this answer. I'll leave it here. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

10 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

So this is your answer to the 4 clear and direct questions directed to you? 

lol. Im good with this answer. I'll leave it here. 

Finally.  Hope you guys mean it.  Lasted longer than the War of 1812. Wish the 2018 Jets had as much perseverance and grit as you guys.

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Finally.  Hope you guys mean it.  Lasted longer than the War of 1812. Wish the 2018 Jets had as much perseverance and grit as you guys.

I wouldnt call him calling my position awful, yet never responding to my points in an effort to support his position "perserverance and grit". 

Those traits actually go to you, hence the reason why when we had this debate, even in our disagreement, it stayed on topic and rebuttals were low-level dismissive attacks on one's opinion but an actual effort to support one's position. 

And that is why our debate lasted 5 minutes and ended with mutual respect for our position. 

I was hoping that folks seen that it took it as an example. But nope!  

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

13 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I wouldnt call him calling my position awful, yet never responding to my points in an effort to support his position "perserverance and grit". 

Those traits actually go to you, hence the reason why when we had this debate, even in our disagreement, it stayed on topic and rebuttals were low-level dismissive attacks on one's opinion but an actual effort to support one's position. 

And that is why our debate lasted 5 minutes and ended with mutual respect for our position. 

I was hoping that folks seen that it took it as an example. But nope!  

I know.  There's a saying, "If you don't expect too much you're never disappointed".  In respect to Nuu Faaola, I don't think he intentionally did that. The difference in opinion between you two just morphed/degenerated into that.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

So this is your answer to the 4 clear and direct questions directed to you? 

lol. Im good with this answer. I'll leave it here. 

Who are you that I have to answer any of your questions? I tend to not take "debates" with people who have contradictory opinions very seriously. I'm not even trying, but I'm still making you look foolish. 

Gase is not responsible for Peyton Manning's success, but is totally responsible for Tannehill's lack of success. How do I argue with something like that? 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I know.  There's a saying, "If you don't expect too much you're never disappointed".  In respect to Nuu Faaola, I don't think he intentionally did that. The difference in opinion between you two just morphed/degenerated into that.

I started a positivity thread and this guy comes in with nothing but negative answers. There was no way in hell that this "debate" was going to be civil. I posted objectively positive things that ownership did, and it was generally well received.

He took exception to my optimism. His first post ended with "There's no credit to be given here at all."  You can't reason with someone like that. 

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

3 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I started a positivity thread and this guy comes in with nothing but negative answers. There was no way in hell that this "debate" was going to be civil. I posted objectively positive things that ownership did, and it was generally well received.

He took exception to my optimism. His first post ended with "There's no credit to be given here at all."  You can't reason with someone like that. 

 

I was on your side of the "debate".  I think that my responses to your posts and my own posts reflect  that. My past history with both of you makes me feel that this was nothing more than a misunderstanding.  Neither of you is the kind of poster who say things just to push buttons, or to antagonize.  We all know that there more than enough of those on this site.

[Jet_Engine1]

11 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I started a positivity thread and this guy comes in with nothing but negative answers. There was no way in hell that this "debate" was going to be civil. I posted objectively positive things that ownership did, and it was generally well received.

He took exception to my optimism. His first post ended with "There's no credit to be given here at all."  You can't reason with someone like that. 

 

Then ignore him. This is the guy that jerks off to Baker Mayfield in every Jets game thread. Whatever. LOL

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Just now, Jet_Engine1 said:

Then ignore him. This is the guy that jerks off to Baker Mayfield in every Jets game thread. Whatever. LOL

It's getting close. I was enjoying tooling on him, but it's getting old.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

6 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I was on your side of the "debate".  I think that my responses to your posts and my own posts reflect  that. My past history with both of you makes me feel that this was nothing more than a misunderstanding.  Neither of you is the kind of poster who say things just to push buttons, or to antagonize.  We all know that there more than enough of those on this site.

Anything I said was in response to him. I'm totally cool with you.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

Just now, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Anything I said was in response to him. I'm totally cool with you.

Never thought anything other than exactly that.