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Giving credit where credit is due, regardless of past failures


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42 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

You are spot on with a lot of this and sorry if you felt targeted. I’m talking about the overall sentiment(here and elsewhere) about everything being so great. It’s still way too soon is all.

I get optimism and excitement but why not skepticism and patience? That’s what I don’t get. Everyone seems too comfortable and we could very well be screwed still. It feels like celebrating before anything good actually happened. 

Major changes (ex. New coach, having a potential franchise QB, etc) are absolutely a reason for optimism compared to years past. I don’t think people are saying things are great with the Jets now, but for the first time in a while several things are pointing in a better direction with our first offensive-minded HC in two decades and an expected attitude/accountability improvement on defense. A #3 pick and $100M in Cap space are the icing on the cake IMO. 

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A bunch of failure has brought us to today, which is ironically a good place to be. A young team with a potential franchise QB, a high draft pick, and a lot of cap room for improvements. Granted, it w

Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.   He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.

Another thread where somebody posts something positive on JetNation and a bunch of #@%#$@%s  have to jump in and piss on it  Every...damn...thread  Some people aren't happy being miserable,

5 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.  

He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.

He has made the JETS shltty second round draft history hold it's place.

He has overpaid many aging vets.

What makes you think he has any idea to do better the next 4 years?

Having that man in charge makes me want to vomit. He is gutless.

He drafted 2 QB's in his first 3 years, none of which could play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you be me to the mac comments.  sure they changed the coaches and probably for the better but unless mac gets his act together with the draft and free agents they'll be the same old jets.  and as much as mac sometimes gets credit for drafting leo or adams or even lee those are just 3 guys out of the 25 or so he has drafted.  frankly i'd rather get two guys who play 80% of leo's talent level 100% of the time than somebody with leo's talent who plays 80% of the time.

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2 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Making the same "the sky is falling, all is lost" prediction all of the time doesn't show guts, isn't really a prediction, and  isn't getting "in the game". What it is, is predictable, weak and makes you right 50% of the time.  Congratulations.

there are 31 losers in the NFL 1 winner every year 

they don't put that in the marketing

predicting doom makes me right like 95-98% of the time 

but i didn't always predict doom, in fact I wrote some of the most pro-Jets post draft reviews a human being could write, year after year, JN used to post them. Now they find some other optimist.

the difference between how I was and how I am with this team, I don't suspend disbelief anymore. This isn't the movies. 

things are what they are, not what we hope they are 

 

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28 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I've seen more pessimism than optimism regarding Gase. I'm not sure that I have seen much gushing over Gase either. It seems that most people fall in the category of being relieved that Bowles is gone and excitement that someone other than Bowles is coaching this team. If anything, the most excitement is from Kacy Rodgers not being the DC and Gregg Williams taking over. 

Franchise QB, new coach, new uniforms, one year closer to the end of Brady. I can't help but feel a little optimism.

Maybe it’s elsewhere. I’ve seen a lot of optimism about everything and feel that many are underestimating how challenging this offseason will be. I feel some optimism too. The emphasis is on SOME. 

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6 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

A bunch of failure has brought us to today, which is ironically a good place to be. A young team with a potential franchise QB, a high draft pick, and a lot of cap room for improvements. Granted, it was failure that put us in this position, but it doesn't change the fact that we are where we are. We can lament over the past, but nothing will change the poor decisions that ownership and the front office have made over the past several years. 

You can make a past failures thread if you want, but I'd prefer if we focused on giving credit to ownership and the front office. 

Culture Change -The jury is out on whether or not Gase was the right choice, but with his hire, we immediately changed the culture of the team. If there was any doubt that Gase will have changed the culture, the hire of Gregg Williams removes any doubts. 

No more rookie, defensive head coaches - We not only hired  coaches who will change the culture, but we hired an offensive minded, experienced head coach along with a defensive coordinator who will light a fire under the backsides of the loafers. 

Developing Sam - We hired a head coach specifically to develop our young QB, which is a move in the right direction.

Possible change in convoluted power structure - Not confirmed, but it sounds like Chris Johnson is having the head coach report to the GM. You can argue that Macc doesn't deserve to have a HC report to him, but that is irrelevant. The decision to have your GM have the power of a GM is a move in the right direction, even if for when we hire the next GM. It will easier to sell being the GM of the Jets if the power structure is normal.

All of these moves could end up being a disaster, but at the end of the day, I applaud Chris Johnson for listening to the fans, or at the least, accidentally doing the right thing. 

Wasn’t this the crux of Thanos’ plan in Avengers Infinity War or

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1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

No chachie.

his point was that it is POSSIBLE for coach to make a huge difference 

Then he should have used a better example than a hall of fame coach with an already great track record instead of the guy sent out on his ass in Miami. 

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5 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I’m old enough to remember when Todd Bowles was going to change the culture of Rex Ryan who was going to change the culture of... blah blah blah. The culture hasn’t changed. Just the name on the head coach door. 

Also, I love this narrative that Gregg Williams is going to be a master motivator and light a fire under the “loafers”. Listen. These are grown men. If they’re loafers that’s not going to change because the coach changed. That’s engrained in who they are. Also, why would this coach or any coach worth a lick want any “loafers” to begin with? That failure is on Macc. Which is a whole other discussion.

The only point you have is that they hired a coach that should help the offense, in theory only though because he hasn’t proven to be the offensive guru as a head coach that many claim him to be. 

Regarding the loafer comment, it’s usually try once you log you’re a loafer. But the in the middle guys just always fail here like Leo BECAUSE of the Jets culture.

Plaxico is a low life we know that but an interesting interview with him yesterday when asked The difference between playing for the Jets and playing for the Giants and he said as a giant he would show up to the game and there was just a feeling that they would win per meeting, and with the Jets there wasn’t that same vibe even when they were good they felt ”are we going to lose?”

This explained everything to me and our only best hope really comes down to Sam Darnold. Before Tom Brady and the patriots were garbage, hopefully Sam is our transcendent talent the rising tide to lift all jets.

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9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there are 31 losers in the NFL 1 winner every year 

they don't put that in the marketing

predicting doom makes me right like 95-98% of the time 

but i didn't always predict doom, in fact I wrote some of the most pro-Jets post draft reviews a human being could write, year after year, JN used to post them. Now they find some other optimist.

the difference between how I was and how I am with this team, I don't suspend disbelief anymore. This isn't the movies. 

things are what they are, not what we hope they are 

 

Who gives a rat's ass about "the marketing".  We are here because of an interest/affection for a particular football team. Predicting doom does not make you right 95+ % of the time,  results aren't that black and white.  Not winning the Super Bowl does not mean it wasn't a good season, or that you are a "loser".  I look forward to positive posts in the future.  I am nearing 60 years of age, I hope I live that long.  Blind faith is not healthy, of that you are correct.  And things are what they are and what we hope them to be.

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7 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I’m old enough to remember when Todd Bowles was going to change the culture of Rex Ryan who was going to change the culture of... blah blah blah. The culture hasn’t changed. Just the name on the head coach door. 

Also, I love this narrative that Gregg Williams is going to be a master motivator and light a fire under the “loafers”. Listen. These are grown men. If they’re loafers that’s not going to change because the coach changed. That’s engrained in who they are. Also, why would this coach or any coach worth a lick want any “loafers” to begin with? That failure is on Macc. Which is a whole other discussion.

The only point you have is that they hired a coach that should help the offense, in theory only though because he hasn’t proven to be the offensive guru as a head coach that many claim him to be. 

Yeah, but Coilin Cowherd says we'll be much better.  Ugh, hope is eternal they say.  I have my doubts. 

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I've posted numerous times that I feel this way about Mac, and I usually end up triggering a tantrum from one or two of the diehard Mac haters that think he is the antichrist. 

I've spent a lot of time condemning the man for his numerous misses and other moves that havent worked out. If I'm going to do that, I feel that (for me) I try to stay objective and if I'm going to knock him I need to be able to give him some credit for things like the trade up that got us Sam and drafting Herndon who looks like he might be the best TE we have had in years. Not giving up this years first for Sam was huge imo. Imagine how we would feel right now if we didn't have 3rd overall to look forward to. 

That doesnt make up for the misses, and going forward he MUST hit on his picks outside of the first round. We are going to end up using way too much of that 100mil this off season filling out the roster because so many of his late(r) picks are already cut. 

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1 hour ago, Jetscode1 said:

Yeah, but Coilin Cowherd says we'll be much better.  Ugh, hope is eternal they say.  I have my doubts. 

We’re all hoping for the best. We want to be proven wrong. We haven’t been in a long time. The culture doesn’t change because the coach does. Hiring a retread DC whose best success came when he was paying players to injure other players doesn’t change the culture. Winning double digit games changes the culture. Making the playoffs changes the culture. Not being a laughingstock year in and year out. I’m not holding my breath. 

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5 hours ago, Skeptable said:

I would argue that Raiders, Arizona, Redskins, Miami, Buffalo, Titans, Broncos, and Bucs all have much worse rosters then the Jets. The Jets have under-performed due to horrendous coaching and still have a bad roster but they are closer to middle of the road then the bottom. The are also a team that has plenty of room to improve through free agency where most of the teams listed above will get worse because of the situation they are stuck in. 

The biggest pluses the Mac has done, is never putting the organization in bad position with long term bad contracts and dead money. Has Mac signed bad Free agents... yes... of course but most of them can be replaced with no actual impact on the team. 

All of those teams have QB problems and 4 of them need a new QB ASAP.  Helps to have Darnold.

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9 hours ago, bitonti said:

these are all good points

and no one cares

the most fun Jets fans are going to have this season is before the season starts when we convince ourselves this time it's different 

the embarrassing stories change but the outcome is never different 

this particular regime with Gase/Williams/Conan the Barbarian is absolutely going to explode probably before the bye week

but don't make that prediction people will say you are an a$$hole 

Incredible how the day it was leaked Gase was hired, bodies were falling from windows here. One day later: sunshine and lollipops.

Jets fans are an odd bunch.

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15 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

This isn't the bare minimum.

If you were hired to be a welder but the boss had someone else welding for you, would you blame the guy for not doing his job? 

eh, you're pushing it... look i'm mostly just blowing off steam. The thing about Mac, and the reason why it's so frustrating, is because he has potential.  he shows now and then that he's capable. That’s a different kind of frustration than someone who isn’t capable and needs to go. He trades well generally, he typically makes good choices about who to let ago, and overall hasn’t been a buffoon in FA... The draft tho.. such a big part of that job.

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7 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

A little perspective.  Marvin Lewis was the Coach of the Bengals for 16 YEARS!  Not that I disagree with your point.  "Only",  can be a tricky word.

At least Lewis leads a competitive team lots of the time, that he loses in the Wildcard game every time, that’s another issue.

The Jets with Bowles as coach would never make it that far, and didn’t.  Few teams have a roster that looks as poor as it did 4 Years prior, save for Darnold and a few others, and would keep the GM who did that kind of “job”.

The Jets were not even competitive lots of the time over the last 4 years.  That’s a disgrace in a parity league.

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45 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

At least Lewis leads a competitive team lots of the time, that he loses in the Wildcard game every time, that’s another issue.

The Jets with Bowles as coach would never make it that far, and didn’t.  Few teams have a roster that looks as poor as it did 4 Years prior, save for Darnold and a few others, and would keep the GM who did that kind of “job”.

The Jets were not even competitive lots of the time over the last 4 years.  That’s a disgrace in a parity league.

The last time the Bengals won a playoff game was in 1991, that is remarkable.  Say what you want, at least we went to two AFC Championship Games within recent memory.  If just getting to the playoffs is the barometer of success to keep a  Coaching Position for 16 years, then that's an even lower bar than the one you set for our GM.  Our ownership, as weak as it has been in the past, would never sign on to that.  As for Bowles, I would have fired his ass half-way through his second season, in spite of the mirage of the 10-6  2015 campaign.  I thought he was that bad.  The only reason MacCagnan has his job today is because Ownership was afraid to "blow it up" completely, fearing a complete rebuild would waste 2-3 years of Darnold's young career ,and feeling {I think} that MacCagnan was done somewhat of a disservice having to equally coexist with Bowles under the previous power structure.  They decided that keeping  MacCagnan and dumping Bowles was the road to take.  Who could argue that. The decision was to get a mentor for Darnold, a  Head Coach with NFL Experience, and a strong Defensive Coordinator with a track record and NFL experience.  They got that.  All things considered I think that with the exception of getting someone like Reggie McKenzie {who I would have strongly considered}, this was the best course  to take.  I tend to agree.  We'll see.  In any event you'd have to admit we're in a better place, even with Macc, than we were at the end of the season.  I'm pretty sure this year we'll be competitive, and better than the Bengals, for sure, if that's the benchmark.

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11 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

A bunch of failure has brought us to today, which is ironically a good place to be. A young team with a potential franchise QB, a high draft pick, and a lot of cap room for improvements. Granted, it was failure that put us in this position, but it doesn't change the fact that we are where we are. We can lament over the past, but nothing will change the poor decisions that ownership and the front office have made over the past several years. 

You can make a past failures thread if you want, but I'd prefer if we focused on giving credit to ownership and the front office. 

Culture Change -The jury is out on whether or not Gase was the right choice, but with his hire, we immediately changed the culture of the team. If there was any doubt that Gase will have changed the culture, the hire of Gregg Williams removes any doubts. 

No more rookie, defensive head coaches - We not only hired  coaches who will change the culture, but we hired an offensive minded, experienced head coach along with a defensive coordinator who will light a fire under the backsides of the loafers. 

Developing Sam - We hired a head coach specifically to develop our young QB, which is a move in the right direction.

Possible change in convoluted power structure - Not confirmed, but it sounds like Chris Johnson is having the head coach report to the GM. You can argue that Macc doesn't deserve to have a HC report to him, but that is irrelevant. The decision to have your GM have the power of a GM is a move in the right direction, even if for when we hire the next GM. It will easier to sell being the GM of the Jets if the power structure is normal.

All of these moves could end up being a disaster, but at the end of the day, I applaud Chris Johnson for listening to the fans, or at the least, accidentally doing the right thing. 

Im not too sure on Culture Change. Gase is the same guy that when fired former players traded to other teams took their pleasure to twitter. Kenyan Drake, arguably their best offensive player had requested a trade, I just heard on Turn on the Jets podcast that there was a defensive player this past season that took himself out of a football game...but what's worse is that not only did Gase not know that this player pulled himself out of the game until when the Press questioned him about why this player left the game, but since Gase didnt know until after the game, that means that his own coaching staff didnt even tell him what happened. Gase getting into a cursing match with the owner of the team, etc. 

There's nothing that would indicate that there's a culture change with Gase, atleast a change that we can view as positive. I dont see any credit that is due with this hire. Most folks are simply happy that we got Gregg Williams on the staff and that's because we dont trust Gase. 

I hope he can develop Sam, but this dude  gets unnecessary credit for nonsense. Peyton Manning was already a locked HOF'er before ever getting to Gase. Cutler had a nice season under Gase but the offense wasnt even top 20 that season. In denver the Broncos had a top 1 and 2 offense under Gase (2013 and 14), but the year before Gase became OC the Broncos had a top 2 defense (2012), which means that the offense was pretty much ran by Peyton Manning. 

Then we look at his latest work with Ryan Tannehill. How did he look this season? 

 

There's justifiable reasons not to like this hire. Many of us Jets fans would love to be wrong because frankly, we're tired of all the f'ing losing. But with that said, this hire along with maintaining Maccagnan looks like more of the same stupidity by ownership. 

There's no credit to be given here at all.  

 

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35 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im not too sure on Culture Change. Gase is the same guy that when fired former players traded to other teams took their pleasure to twitter. Kenyan Drake, arguably their best offensive player had requested a trade, I just heard on Turn on the Jets podcast that there was a defensive player this past season that took himself out of a football game...but what's worse is that not only did Gase not know that this player pulled himself out of the game until when the Press questioned him about why this player left the game, but since Gase didnt know until after the game, that means that his own coaching staff didnt even tell him what happened. Gase getting into a cursing match with the owner of the team, etc. 

There's nothing that would indicate that there's a culture change with Gase, atleast a change that we can view as positive. I dont see any credit that is due with this hire. Most folks are simply happy that we got Gregg Williams on the staff and that's because we dont trust Gase. 

I hope he can develop Sam, but this dude  gets unnecessary credit for nonsense. Peyton Manning was already a locked HOF'er before ever getting to Gase. Cutler had a nice season under Gase but the offense wasnt even top 20 that season. In denver the Broncos had a top 1 and 2 offense under Gase (2013 and 14), but the year before Gase became OC the Broncos had a top 2 defense (2012), which means that the offense was pretty much ran by Peyton Manning. 

Then we look at his latest work with Ryan Tannehill. How did he look this season? 

 

There's justifiable reasons not to like this hire. Many of us Jets fans would love to be wrong because frankly, we're tired of all the f'ing losing. But with that said, this hire along with maintaining Maccagnan looks like more of the same stupidity by ownership. 

There's no credit to be given here at all.  

 

Take where we are, I think we are in a much better position than 12 months a go. It's not perfect but we have a young hopefully franchise QB. A HC who's an offensive minded guy. A ball buster DC. A $100 in cap and a top 3 pick.

I know it's easy to go SOJ's, but like it or not we have made our beds, and we are all Jets fans.

I want personally to be more positive about my club, than the abject misery of the last four years, and the total slide since the back to back AFCG's.  

The Johnsons mean well but are a couple of bungling idiots. Perhaps they have stumbled into something?

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15 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Bill Parcells with virtually the same team Kotite had turned the team from 1-15 to 9-7.  A better coach can light a fire. 

While a better Coaching staff brings a change about if the players don't respect the coach it doesn't work. With Parcells it was about respect plain and simple. Neither of these guys have that......  yet.

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16 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.  

He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.

He has made the JETS shltty second round draft history hold it's place.

He has overpaid many aging vets.

What makes you think he has any idea to do better the next 4 years?

Having that man in charge makes me want to vomit. He is gutless.

He drafted 2 QB's in his first 3 years, none of which could play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well mac seems to be the yes man gm like mike t was, the early rounds seem to be HCs choice.. why we almost ALWAYS have picked D or qb in first 2 rounds dating back to 09.. now we have a O HC, Mangini was well rounded be pushed for OL re-build. But Gase is obviously going to push for O.. I really don’t give a hoot if our D is ranked worse than mid 20s as it has been. I am just glad we have a HC who is pushing for actual O talent for Sam. When you draft OL in first 3 rounds you are likely getting what you paid for, non of this “ I can find a OL gem in round 6” which is what idiot Mac says every yr

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Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.  
He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.
He has made the JETS shltty second round draft history hold it's place.
He has overpaid many aging vets.
What makes you think he has any idea to do better the next 4 years?
Having that man in charge makes me want to vomit. He is gutless.
He drafted 2 QB's in his first 3 years, none of which could play.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Wow. What fresh information. I want to thank you for your list of inadequacies from our GM. I haven’t heard any of that before and it’s really great to have someone finally shed some light on what macc has done over the past four years. Ya know what? We should creat a thread where we discuss whether or not macc should have been retained or just fired along with Bowles. I’m sincerely interested to see what the rest of board thinks on this one.


The original poster is trying to get us out of the same damn cycle of the negativity and try to look at things from a different perspective. Are we completely unable to shake the same hum drum we’ve been beating for the past 8 months?

Jeesh.




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1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:


Wow. What fresh information. I want to thank you for your list of inadequacies from our GM. I haven’t heard any of that before and it’s really great to have someone finally shed some light on what macc has done over the past four years. Ya know what? We should creat a thread where we discuss whether or not macc should have been retained or just fired along with Bowles. I’m sincerely interested to see what the rest of board thinks on this one.

The original poster is trying to get us out of the same damn cycle of the negativity and try to look at things from a different perspective. Are we completely unable to shake the same hum drum we’ve been beating for the past 8 months?

Are you really sugggesting that critics should shut up about how dumb Chris Johnson was for keeping Mac aboard?  Just because you are sick of hearing it doesn't mean that people shouldn't express their views when appropriate. Officer Greenbean,  can you show me your messageboard police badge so that I can validate your authority?  

I've simmered down about Mac lately but if asked, I am still seething that this organization decided to retain that boob.  I won't be starting any threads on it though.  But if the issue comes up, you will hear it (like now) so maybe use the ol' ignore function for those of us who think it was a massive brain failure by Chris Johnson.  There will be a lot more slack if Mac hits a homerun in FA and if Mac doesn't screw up his 5th draft.  Clock is ticking on our doofus.  

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9 minutes ago, Dcat said:

 Officer Greenbean,  can you show me your messageboard police badge so that I can validate your authority?   

 

These guys aren't like police they are more like the nursing home interns that tell everyone to shut the hell up 

 

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16 hours ago, Losmeister said:

Still seems a rather DRAMATIC take..    it'll be good IT WILL GET UGLY!!!

 

alotta hyperbole.....    ABSOLUTE IMPLOSION!

 

Not sure it's dramatic or hyperbole.  Have you watched this team through the years?

Do you see the personalities currently of our dual HC's? Do you understand that way the media loves to attack this team?

If you don't think that things will get ugly once they hit a losing streak then you haven't been paying attention.

 

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14 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Not sure it's dramatic or hyperbole.  Have you watched this team through the years?

Do you see the personalities currently of our dual HC's? Do you understand that way the media loves to attack this team?

If you don't think that things will get ugly once they hit a losing streak then you haven't been paying attention.

 

media gon be media and try to rile sh*t up. shrug. you see this big drama. i see the same ol thing, diffenet characters. if we win, no probs , if we dont , tension and whatnot.

 

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1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Are you really sugggesting that critics should shut up abouot how dumb Chris Johnson was for keeping Mac aboard?  Just because you are sick of hearing it doesn't mean that people shouldn't express their views when appropriate. Officer Greenbean,  can you show me your messageboard police badge so that I can validate your authority?  

I've simmered down about Mac lately but if asked, I am still seething that this organization decided to retain that boob.  I won't be starting any threads on it though.  But if the issue comes up, you will hear it (like now) so maybe use the ol' ignore function for those of us who think it was a massive brain failure by Chris Johnson.  There will be a lot more slack if Mac hits a homerun in FA and if Mac doesn't screw up his 5th draft.  Clock is ticking on our doofus.  

Are you really suggesting that I should refrain from making a comment toward someone who has hijacked a new thread by repeating the exact same thing over and over and over and over again? Even when someone, who has acknowledged the bad stuff quite well, was trying to start a different conversation?  Officer Dcat can you show me your message board police badge so I can validate your authority? 

The OP is trying to look at things from a different angle and open a discussion on some of the things done which could add to a culture change etc. 

But nope. It didn't make it past the first reply to become a I hate Macchiato's thread. What fun we must be having. 

 

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