Giving credit where credit is due, regardless of past failures

[Jetsfan80]

49 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm not arguing that the guys who are too bad to make the Jets are good players. I'm not arguing that Mike Maccagnan has done a good job.

I'm arguing that the Jets roster, while bad, isn't "by far the worst in the NFL" which seems to be the attitude of many here. It's ridiculous hyperbole and doesn't hold the coaches accountable for failing to get more out of these players. 

It's not hyperbole.  I provided proof. 

Those who say we aren't the worst roster in the NFL are the ones using hyperbole and feelings. 

They don't "feel" the Jets have the worst roster, because the Jets have players whose names they recognize.  They overrate guys like Jordan Jenkins and Brandon Shell and say "HAY MACC HASN'T DONE THAT BAD".

Bottom line: 

• We have zero elite players at premium positions.  The other 31 teams in the NFL except the Raiders do. 
• We have the most players out of the league over the past 4 years of drafting, per the stat provided.
• We only have 29 players under contract for 2019.  And very few of those players are above replacement level.

That makes us the worst roster in the NFL outside of maybe the Raiders, who unlike us, were actually TRYING to tank. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not hyperbole.  I provided proof. 

Those who say we aren't the worst roster in the NFL are the ones using hyperbole and feelings. 

 They don't "feel" the Jets have the worst roster, because the Jets have players whose names they recognize.  They overrate guys like Jordan Jenkins and Brandon Shell and say "HAY MACC HASN'T DONE THAT BAD".

 Bottom line: 

• We have zero elite players at premium positions.  The other 31 teams in the NFL except the Raiders do. 
•  We have the most players out of the league over the past 4 years of drafting, per the stat provided.
•  We only have 29 players under contract for 2019.  And very few of those players are above replacement level.

 That makes us the worst roster in the NFL outside of maybe the Raiders, who unlike us, were actually TRYING to tank. 

They also have three first round picks and a quarterback who in the three years prior to last season was 12, 7, 12 in DYAR. I don't think the Raiders are a real tough case to make either.

[Charlie Brown]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If you think the presence of Von Miller, Chandler Jones and Patrick Peterson alone doesn't make those rosters better, you need to take the green goggles off.  

Thank you!

The Jets FO has held on to this nonsense for years now that somehow the Fitzpatricks, Geno Smith and other nondescripts are somehow fantastic and are just being held back from being HOFers because of coaching!

First Idzik sold that rotten barrel of fish to ownership and now MacCagnan is cooking the same putrid dish and the owners once again unfortunately are eating it up along with some homer type fans!!

[GREENBEAN]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

You get your rocks off hoping and praying?  Woody loves that.   I simply brought facts in.  You don’t like facts? Put me on ignore.  I think I’ll survive.   

Ignore?? Why would I do that?  How could I see same stuff over and over again?   lol 

Listen, I'm not saying you're not stating facts. It's not about calling you inaccurate or anything like that. What I was commenting on is how quickly an attempt at creating a thread on moving forward was turned into another Macc sucks thread. I'm pretty sure you were the initial comment. That's all really.  I'm openly in favor of keeping macc and have stated it all season long, but that's not the point. I appreciated the OP's attempt. That's it. 

I will never ignore you!  NEVER!!! 

 

[southparkcpa]

25 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Ignore?? Why would I do that?  How could I see same stuff over and over again?   lol 

Listen, I'm not saying you're not stating facts. It's not about calling you inaccurate or anything like that. What I was commenting on is how quickly an attempt at creating a thread on moving forward was turned into another Macc sucks thread. I'm pretty sure you were the initial comment. That's all really.  I'm openly in favor of keeping macc and have stated it all season long, but that's not the point. I appreciated the OP's attempt. That's it. 

I will never ignore you!  NEVER!!! 

 

 

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not hyperbole.  I provided proof. 

Those who say we aren't the worst roster in the NFL are the ones using hyperbole and feelings. 

They don't "feel" the Jets have the worst roster, because the Jets have players whose names they recognize.  They overrate guys like Jordan Jenkins and Brandon Shell and say "HAY MACC HASN'T DONE THAT BAD".

Bottom line: 

• We have zero elite players at premium positions.  The other 31 teams in the NFL except the Raiders do. 
• We have the most players out of the league over the past 4 years of drafting, per the stat provided.
• We only have 29 players under contract for 2019.  And very few of those players are above replacement level.

That makes us the worst roster in the NFL outside of maybe the Raiders, who unlike us, were actually TRYING to tank. 

Green bean.. We are all fans, no issue. Its all good. But Jetsfan 80 states my case fairly well.   I am confident moving forward but I don't see MAC as a GM of a SB team. I just don't.   I like Gase, Williams, Darnold moving forward. Let's pray the Pats get fukkin smoked on Sunday!!!!

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

On 1/18/2019 at 2:24 AM, Villain The Foe said:

Im not too sure on Culture Change. Gase is the same guy that when fired former players traded to other teams took their pleasure to twitter. Kenyan Drake, arguably their best offensive player had requested a trade, I just heard on Turn on the Jets podcast that there was a defensive player this past season that took himself out of a football game...but what's worse is that not only did Gase not know that this player pulled himself out of the game until when the Press questioned him about why this player left the game, but since Gase didnt know until after the game, that means that his own coaching staff didnt even tell him what happened. Gase getting into a cursing match with the owner of the team, etc. 

There's nothing that would indicate that there's a culture change with Gase, atleast a change that we can view as positive. I dont see any credit that is due with this hire. Most folks are simply happy that we got Gregg Williams on the staff and that's because we dont trust Gase. 

I hope he can develop Sam, but this dude  gets unnecessary credit for nonsense. Peyton Manning was already a locked HOF'er before ever getting to Gase. Cutler had a nice season under Gase but the offense wasnt even top 20 that season. In denver the Broncos had a top 1 and 2 offense under Gase (2013 and 14), but the year before Gase became OC the Broncos had a top 2 defense (2012), which means that the offense was pretty much ran by Peyton Manning. 

Then we look at his latest work with Ryan Tannehill. How did he look this season? 

 

There's justifiable reasons not to like this hire. Many of us Jets fans would love to be wrong because frankly, we're tired of all the f'ing losing. But with that said, this hire along with maintaining Maccagnan looks like more of the same stupidity by ownership. 

There's no credit to be given here at all.  

 

In one breath you discredited his work with Peyton Manning. In your next breath you discredited his work with Ryan Tannehill. In other words, he gets no credit for helping Peyton Manning have a monster season, but is also responsible for lack of production with a JAG QB.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

On 1/18/2019 at 12:20 AM, Paradis said:

eh, you're pushing it... look i'm mostly just blowing off steam. The thing about Mac, and the reason why it's so frustrating, is because he has potential.  he shows now and then that he's capable. That’s a different kind of frustration than someone who isn’t capable and needs to go. He trades well generally, he typically makes good choices about who to let ago, and overall hasn’t been a buffoon in FA... The draft tho.. such a big part of that job.

What is frustrating is not being able to evaluate a GM who up until this point has not had the power of a GM. It's like a cashier who has several people using their till. If the count is off at the end of the day, who is responsible?

[Paradis]

On 1/18/2019 at 10:03 AM, Skeptable said:

Darnold... 

Matt Millen could have made that pick.

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

What is frustrating is not being able to evaluate a GM who up until this point has not had the power of a GM. It's like a cashier who has several people using their till. If the count is off at the end of the day, who is responsible?

What power didn't he have???  He came here 4 years ago with CAP space, a clean roster and he chose Fitz and McCown to lead this team.   Who handcuffed him other than his piss poor picks.  Picks like Hack and Devin Smith are why the Jets have a grade C- roster.

[Villain The Foe]

7 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

In one breath you discredited his work with Peyton Manning. In your next breath you discredited his work with Ryan Tannehill. In other words, he gets no credit for helping Peyton Manning have a monster season, but is also responsible for lack of production with a JAG QB.

In one breath, folks claim that when Peyton Manning was in Indy he was the on-field OC, then in the next breath want to claim that Adam Gase did wonders with Peyton Manning. When you have Peyton Manning as your QB, you dont coach Manning up, he coaches you up. Lets be real here. Besides that point though, how hard was it for Peyton Manning to have such a monster season? He's throwing to Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, Julius Thomas and Wes Welker. All guys in their prime outside of Wes Welker and was still a top offense before Gase became OC. You dont get credit for Manning going from calling "Omaha" in a Colts uni to calling "Omaha" a Bronco's uni. Peyton Manning was the OC of that team, just as he was in Indy. Gase was along for the ride. 

Also, what work has he done with Ryan Tannehill? Tannehill never missed a game until Gase became the head coach, then suddenly after 4 straight seasons of never missing a game, now it seems like he cant stay on the field for an entire season and actually missed all of 2017. He never threw for more than 3000 yards in any season under Gase, never threw for more than 20 TD's under Gase, never was a probowler under Gase and his best seasons were the 2 seasons before Gase arrived. What credit am I missing here exactly? 

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

On 1/18/2019 at 9:13 AM, BurnleyJet said:

Take where we are, I think we are in a much better position than 12 months a go. It's not perfect but we have a young hopefully franchise QB. A HC who's an offensive minded guy. A ball buster DC. A $100 in cap and a top 3 pick.

I know it's easy to go SOJ's, but like it or not we have made our beds, and we are all Jets fans.

I want personally to be more positive about my club, than the abject misery of the last four years, and the total slide since the back to back AFCG's.  

The Johnsons mean well but are a couple of bungling idiots. Perhaps they have stumbled into something?

We're in a much better position than we were 12 months ago because of Sam Darnold, not Adam Gase. Just because our coach is an offensive minded coach means nothing. He's not shown to be a good head coach. We had a defensive minded HC and he didnt show to be a good HC and I dont ever recall our defensive being top 10 under Bowles. 

We have 100 million in cap just a couple years ago with the same GM. We're in the same place we were when we hired him. We hired Macc after a 4-12 season with 100+ million in cap space. 4 years later the Jets have a 4-12 record with 100+ million in cap space and the GM is still Maccagnan. 

I want to be more positive about the Jets as well, but wanting to be more positive, and lying to myself are two different things. 

I've never seen idiots stumble into anything great. We're jets fans remember. This is the same organization that could have had Manning, could have had Belichick multiple times, could have had Wilson, Watson Mahomes etc. I dont think the Johnson's stumbled into an excellent hire in Adam Gase while keeping Macc. You know why? Because the fact that they even kept Maccagnan around makes it seem as if it was Bowles that underachieved with such a magnificent roster that Maccagnan put together, as if this was Jeff Fischer squandering a talented Rams team. Na bro. 

Like I said, there's a difference between wanting to be positive and lying to myself. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

28 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

In one breath, folks claim that when Peyton Manning was in Indy he was the on-field OC, then in the next breath want to claim that Adam Gase did wonders with Peyton Manning. When you have Peyton Manning as your QB, you dont coach Manning up, he coaches you up. Lets be real here. Besides that point though, how hard was it for Peyton Manning to have such a monster season? He's throwing to Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, Julius Thomas and Wes Welker. All guys in their prime outside of Wes Welker and was still a top offense before Gase became OC. You dont get credit for Manning going from calling "Omaha" in a Colts uni to calling "Omaha" a Bronco's uni. Peyton Manning was the OC of that team, just as he was in Indy. Gase was along for the ride. 

Also, what work has he done with Ryan Tannehill? Tannehill never missed a game until Gase became the head coach, then suddenly after 4 straight seasons of never missing a game, now it seems like he cant stay on the field for an entire season and actually missed all of 2017. He never threw for more than 3000 yards in any season under Gase, never threw for more than 20 TD's under Gase, never was a probowler under Gase and his best seasons were the 2 seasons before Gase arrived. What credit am I missing here exactly? 

 

 

You make great points ,but...…. nobody is saying that Adam Gates made Peyton Manning anything.  Peyton Manning was a finished product long before working with Adam Gase.  Is it not "possible" that Adam Gates helped "enhance" Manning's  "game", while working with him on the Broncos.  Peyton Manning seems to think so, I believe him.  There's no denying the numbers the years they worked together with the Broncos.  So, credit is due, despite personal feelings about Gase choice as our next Head Coach.  As for Ryan Tannehill, he was never more than a  mediocre quarterback, at best.  That Gase won any games with him at the helm is to his credit, in my opinion.  Miami's roster during Gase time there, while not as putrid as ours, was by no means a stacked  lineup. Lastly,  Peyton Manning did not go out of his way to trumpet Gase' virtues to Chris Johnson because he's such as "swell" guy.  He has a reputation to protect and surely knew that his "endorsement" would be front page news, as it was.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

Matt Millen could have made that pick.

Matt Dillon could have made that pick.

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

  On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 1:03 PM, Skeptable said:

Darnold... 

 

[bealeb319]

Have you looked at Mac's draft record?  It is statistically bottom 5 in the league. Fact.  
He came he 4 years ago with 100M in cap space. He has passed on several good QB's in that process.
He has made the JETS shltty second round draft history hold it's place.
He has overpaid many aging vets.
What makes you think he has any idea to do better the next 4 years?
Having that man in charge makes me want to vomit. He is gutless.
He drafted 2 QB's in his first 3 years, none of which could play.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Mac is on thin ice. This is the time for him to prove himself. If he fails than you can be happy because he will be fired if he succeeds maybe try to be happy?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetsfan80]

Mac is on thin ice. This is the time for him to prove himself. If he fails than you can be happy because he will be fired if he succeeds maybe try to be happy?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

Us Macc haters would love if this guy would succeed. We’ve been hoping for that for 4 years.

[bealeb319]

Us Macc haters would love if this guy would succeed. We’ve been hoping for that for 4 years.

Well he gets one year minimum to fix it so can we wait to see him do something else bad before we whine more? The points have been made, killed and necroed over and over

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

On 1/18/2019 at 1:29 PM, Philc1 said:

As bad as the Jets roster was last season it was not 4-12 bad.  A semi-professional coaching staff probably gets us to 7-8 wins

Exactly what I’ve been saying for awhile (1st Miami game, Cleve, Hou, GB...all should have been in the W column, lucky for Jet fans they weren’t or that dolt Bowles is patrolling the Jet sidelines maybe for the rest of Darnold’s career, you couldn’t be a worse coach than him if you tried, same goes for Maccagnan on Draft Day vs armchair GMs).

Jets are making the play-offs next year...if they’re able to up the roster talent somewhat...and I’m not even saying by a lot.

[BurnleyJet]

7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

We're in a much better position than we were 12 months ago because of Sam Darnold, not Adam Gase. Just because our coach is an offensive minded coach means nothing. He's not shown to be a good head coach. We had a defensive minded HC and he didnt show to be a good HC and I dont ever recall our defensive being top 10 under Bowles. 

We have 100 million in cap just a couple years ago with the same GM. We're in the same place we were when we hired him. We hired Macc after a 4-12 season with 100+ million in cap space. 4 years later the Jets have a 4-12 record with 100+ million in cap space and the GM is still Maccagnan. 

I want to be more positive about the Jets as well, but wanting to be more positive, and lying to myself are two different things. 

I've never seen idiots stumble into anything great. We're jets fans remember. This is the same organization that could have had Manning, could have had Belichick multiple times, could have had Wilson, Watson Mahomes etc. I dont think the Johnson's stumbled into an excellent hire in Adam Gase while keeping Macc. You know why? Because the fact that they even kept Maccagnan around makes it seem as if it was Bowles that underachieved with such a magnificent roster that Maccagnan put together, as if this was Jeff Fischer squandering a talented Rams team. Na bro. 

Like I said, there's a difference between wanting to be positive and lying to myself. 

Wow your really entrenched. The proof of the pudding and all that. The real judgement is W's, let's see how many we get under Gase and Co?

I not ready to get SOJ's or paint myself in a corner, definitely not any time soon. None of what you wrote makes me wrong, or you right, but time will tell. I'm just not prejudging.

[Villain The Foe]

12 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

You make great points ,but...…. nobody is saying that Adam Gates made Peyton Manning anything.  Peyton Manning was a finished product long before working with Adam Gase.  Is it not "possible" that Adam Gates helped "enhance" Manning's  "game", while working with him on the Broncos. 

Is it possible? Sure. Can you personally identify how Adam Gase enhanced Manning's game? It seems like no one can tell me what Gase did to enhance a lock 1st ballot HOF'er/multiple time MVP's game. But I have an idea. Let me tell you. 

Manning going to the Broncos and having Emmanuel Sanders, Demaryius Thomas and Julius Thomas in their primes, and having the best defense he's ever had in his career certainly enhanced his game. Peyton Manning never had such a complete team around him. 

Maybe it was that. 

Quote

Peyton Manning seems to think so, I believe him.  There's no denying the numbers the years they worked together with the Broncos.  So, credit is due, despite personal feelings about Gase choice as our next Head Coach. 

Peyton can think whatever he wants, the bottomline is that Peyton Manning was the OC of the Broncos and he had the best offensive weapons and defensive weapons he's ever had on 1 team. There's no denying THAT fact. You've presented nothing to supported the bolded "credit is due". And im going to prove it with your own words. 

Quote

As for Ryan Tannehill, he was never more than a  mediocre quarterback, at best.  That Gase won any games with him at the helm is to his credit, in my opinion. 

Lets see how awesome this credit is. 

#1. You state that Tanne was nothing more than a mediocre QB at best, which is you making excuses. Tanny played his first 4 seasons before Gase, throwing for more than 4,000 yards in his prior 2 seasons and over 20 TD's in both and never missed a game. With Gase Tannehill never passed past 3000 yards, 20 TD's never played a full season and missed the entire 2017 season. What credit are you providing here? Do you mean that 2016 playoff year? Lets break that season down then. 

From week 1 to week 5 the Dolphins started the season 1-4. the four teams they lost to were Seattle (10-5-1), Pats (14-2), Bengals (6-9) and Titans (9-7) and beat the Browns (1-15). The Pats, Seahawks and Titans were 1st in their divisions and the Bengals were 6-9. The Browns that season were 1-15. They lost to every good to mediocre team. 

From weeks 6 to week 13 the Fins beat the Steelers (11-5), Buffalo (7-9), Jets (5-11), Chargers (5-11), Rams (4-12), 49ers (2-14), Cards (7-8-1) and lost to the Ravens (8-8). 

In other words, this Fins playoff run was ALOT like the 2015 Jets year with Fitzpatrick. When the Jets went 10-6 playing a ton of scrubs, losing to the majority of mediocre to great teams while stealing a game to make it look better than what it was. 

The only team that the Fins beat with a winning record was the Steelers. Every other team had a losing record. They had arguably the easiest schedule in the league that year, made the playoffs, met the same Steelers team that they won against earlier in the season and got their asses handed to them. 

2017 Tannehill is out and 2018 Tannehill looked terrible. 

 

What credit are you talking about here? And im being serious. In 13 games in 2016, Tannehill, coached by Gase, beat 1 team with a winning record. Since we're speaking about the quality of wins here. Like you said, proof's in the pudding @BurnleyJet

What credit are you guys talking about? Guys who have credible backgrounds, their backgrounds speak for themselves. Yet for some reason, there's nothing but questions here. 

No, im not giving credit to an OC that had Peyton Manning when I know Peyton Manning is the OC and im not giving credit for playing 13 games with Tannehill winning all your games against losing teams and beating 1 team with a winning record and then getting destroyed by that same team when you saw them in the playoffs. 

 

Im not giving credit to that. I'll give credit when the credit is actually due. 

[southparkcpa]

13 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Mac is on thin ice. This is the time for him to prove himself. If he fails than you can be happy because he will be fired if he succeeds maybe try to be happy?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

My happiness has nothing to do with this team.   I watched very little NFL this year.    I simply enjoy the business side of sports. Ive done tax work for Pro athletes, including NFL. I know 2 NFL GM's (Panther GM belongs to my golf club) and simply have formed opinions about the business.  These guys are not as smart as we give them credit for and like life , the top 20 percent make all the money.  Mac is NOT one of them. 

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Is it possible? Sure. Can you personally identify how Adam Gase enhanced Manning's game? It seems like no one can tell me what Gase did to enhance a lock 1st ballot HOF'er/multiple time MVP's game. But I have an idea. Let me tell you. 

Manning going to the Broncos and having Emmanuel Sanders, Demaryius Thomas and Julius Thomas in their primes, and having the best defense he's ever had in his career certainly enhanced his game. Peyton Manning never had such a complete team around him. 

Maybe it was that. 

Peyton can think whatever he wants, the bottomline is that Peyton Manning was the OC of the Broncos and he had the best offensive weapons and defensive weapons he's ever had on 1 team. There's no denying THAT fact. You've presented nothing to supported the bolded "credit is due". And im going to prove it with your own words. 

Lets see how awesome this credit is. 

#1. You state that Tanne was never more than a mediocre QB at best, which is you making excuses. Tanny played his first 4 seasons before Gase, throwing for more than 4,000 yards in his prior 2 seasons and over 20 TD's in both and never missed a game. With Gase Tannehill never passed past 3000 yards, 20 TD's never played a full season and missed the entire 2017 season. What credit are you providing here? Do you mean that 2016 playoff year? Lets break that season down then. 

From week 1 to week 5 the Dolphins started the season 1-4. the four teams they lost to were Seattle (10-5-1), Pats (14-2), Bengals (6-9) and Titans (9-7) and beat the Browns (1-15). The Pats, Seahawks and Titans were 1st in their divisions and the Bengals were 6-9. The Browns that season were 1-15. They lost to every good to mediocre team. 

From weeks 6 to week 13 the Fins beat the Steelers (11-5), Buffalo (7-9), Jets (5-11), Chargers (5-11), Rams (4-12), 49ers (2-14), Cards (7-8-1) and lost to the Ravens (8-8). 

In other words, this Fins playoff run was ALOT like the 2015 Jets year with Fitzpatrick. When the Jets went 10-6 playing a ton of scrubs, losing to the majority of mediocre to great teams while stealing a game to make it look better than what it was. 

The only team that the Fins beat with a winning record was the Steelers. Every other team had a losing record. They had arguably the easiest schedule in the league that year, made the playoffs, met the same Steelers team that they won against earlier in the season and got their asses handed to them. 

2017 Tannehill is out and 2018 Tannehill looked terrible. 

 

What credit are you talking about here? And im being serious. In 13 games in 2016, Tannehill, coached by Gase, beat 1 team with a winning record. Since we're speaking about the quality of wins here. Like you said, proof's in the pudding @BurnleyJet

What credit are you guys talking about? Guys who have credible backgrounds, their backgrounds speak for themselves. Yet for some reason, there's nothing but questions here. 

No, im not giving credit to an OC that had Peyton Manning when I know Peyton Manning is the OC and im not giving credit for playing 13 games with Tannehill winning all your games against losing teams and beating 1 team with a winning record and then getting destroyed by that same team when you saw them in the playoffs. 

 

Im not giving credit to that. I'll give credit when the credit is actually due. 

I think the Browns need another good fan. clearly your not on board with any of this and your venting.

I get your angry and frustration but I also feel we are going in the right direction. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said:

I think the Browns need another good fan. clearly your not on board with any of this and your venting.

I get your angry and frustration but I also feel we are going in the right direction. 

Well that's a poor way deflect. I wonder what the excuse is for the other Jets fans on this site thathave similar reservations yet arent Browns fans. 

Also, why would I be angry if Im a Browns fan? See how you're making no sense?

Nice Browns/Jets avatar by the way. We're more alike than you know ?✊

Or, we could just get back to the facts. Your choice. 

[BurnleyJet]

21 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Well that's a poor way deflect. I wonder what the excuse is for the other Jets fans on this site thathave similar reservations yet arent Browns fans. 

Also, why would I be angry if Im a Browns fan? See how you're making no sense?

Nice Browns/Jets avatar by the way. We're more alike than you know ?✊

Or, we could just get back to the facts. Your choice. 

My avatar is ironic, I don't have an avatar of a guy you wished we did drafted. I'm going to stick with Sam,

Your love of particular Q.B's have been the wrong choice before, and I believe in the long run wrong again.

What's your actual point, and can you do anything about it? - Apart from getting onto people who don't share your opinion.

Deal with it Gase is the head coach.

 

[Villain The Foe]

19 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

My avatar is ironic, I don't have an avatar of a guy you wished we did drafted. I'm going to stick with Sam,

You really dont sense sarcasm do you? 

Quote

Your love of particular Q.B's have been the wrong choice before, and I believe in the long run wrong again.

What does this have to do about anything? Look at where you took this conversation. 

Quote

What's your actual point, and can you do anything about it? - Apart from getting onto people who don't share your opinion.

Deal with it Gase is the head coach.

No one is debating about dealing with something we have no control over. I expressed my feeling about Gase and I came with facts regarding both Peyton Manning and what he had around him along with Tannehill and completely broke down his 2016 season so we could see what it was from a competition point of view. 

 

How about supporting your position or concede. Nothing wrong with that. Stop changing the subject and talking about when I was wrong. Being wrong for me doesnt bother me because I make sure to stay around to own that sh*t when I am. However when Im right all you jokers do is cry, moan and groan then talk about when I was wrong. 

How about getting back on topic, and if you cant do that then no problem brother, we can end the convo here. But try and be mature. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

16 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

In one breath, folks claim that when Peyton Manning was in Indy he was the on-field OC, then in the next breath want to claim that Adam Gase did wonders with Peyton Manning. When you have Peyton Manning as your QB, you dont coach Manning up, he coaches you up. Lets be real here. Besides that point though, how hard was it for Peyton Manning to have such a monster season? He's throwing to Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, Julius Thomas and Wes Welker. All guys in their prime outside of Wes Welker and was still a top offense before Gase became OC. You dont get credit for Manning going from calling "Omaha" in a Colts uni to calling "Omaha" a Bronco's uni. Peyton Manning was the OC of that team, just as he was in Indy. Gase was along for the ride. 

Also, what work has he done with Ryan Tannehill? Tannehill never missed a game until Gase became the head coach, then suddenly after 4 straight seasons of never missing a game, now it seems like he cant stay on the field for an entire season and actually missed all of 2017. He never threw for more than 3000 yards in any season under Gase, never threw for more than 20 TD's under Gase, never was a probowler under Gase and his best seasons were the 2 seasons before Gase arrived. What credit am I missing here exactly? 

 

 

I don't care what folks claim. I was replying directly to you.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I don't care what folks claim. I was replying directly to you.

I know. I responded with 2 paragraphs worth of information. Read pass the 1st sentence. Unless you dont want to continue this convo and support your views. Then dont read pass the 1st sentence. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

I know. I responded with 2 paragraphs worth of information. Read pass the 1st sentence. Unless you dont want to continue this convo and support your views. Then dont read pass the 1st sentence. 

No.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

No.

Cool. I accept your concession. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Cool. I accept your concession. 

I made the mistake of reading your long winded comment and came out with the same thing as not reading it. I concede that you have no idea what you're talking about. Thanks. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I made the mistake of reading your long winded comment and came out with the same thing as not reading it. I concede that you have no idea what you're talking about. Thanks. 

Whatever you need to tell yourself to accept the fact that you conceded. Folks who are able to show that someone's position is incorrect or makes no sense would have no problem showing it. 

You on the otherhand have decided to create reasons for you conceding given the fact that you've not been able to present a response worthy of even being typed. 

All this you're saying now is just smoke. I see through that sh*t. 

[HelenOfTroy]

16 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

We're in a much better position than we were 12 months ago because of Sam Darnold, not Adam Gase. Just because our coach is an offensive minded coach means nothing. He's not shown to be a good head coach. We had a defensive minded HC and he didnt show to be a good HC and I dont ever recall our defensive being top 10 under Bowles. 

We have 100 million in cap just a couple years ago with the same GM. We're in the same place we were when we hired him. We hired Macc after a 4-12 season with 100+ million in cap space. 4 years later the Jets have a 4-12 record with 100+ million in cap space and the GM is still Maccagnan. 

I want to be more positive about the Jets as well, but wanting to be more positive, and lying to myself are two different things. 

I've never seen idiots stumble into anything great. We're jets fans remember. This is the same organization that could have had Manning, could have had Belichick multiple times, could have had Wilson, Watson Mahomes etc. I dont think the Johnson's stumbled into an excellent hire in Adam Gase while keeping Macc. You know why? Because the fact that they even kept Maccagnan around makes it seem as if it was Bowles that underachieved with such a magnificent roster that Maccagnan put together, as if this was Jeff Fischer squandering a talented Rams team. Na bro. 

Like I said, there's a difference between wanting to be positive and lying to myself. 

Reality is like a splash of ice cold water in your face on a frigid morning.

Mr. Reality, keeping it real...?

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, HelenOfTroy said:

Reality is like a splash of ice cold water in your face on a frigid morning.

Mr. Reality, keeping it real...?

Thanks. For some reason though, this realness forces other people to talk about how I was wrong about a QB 4 years ago. 

I dont know how it relates to this topic, but.....lmao. 

[HelenOfTroy]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Thanks. For some reason though, this realness forces other people to talk about how I was wrong about a QB 4 years ago. 

I dont know how it relates to this topic, but.....lmao. 

When left with no valid rebuttal.....well, you know. ?

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, HelenOfTroy said:

When left with no valid rebuttal.....well, you know. ?

True. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

12 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Whatever you need to tell yourself to accept the fact that you conceded. Folks who are able to show that someone's position is incorrect or makes no sense would have no problem showing it. 

You on the otherhand have decided to create reasons for you conceding given the fact that you've not been able to present a response worthy of even being typed. 

All this you're saying now is just smoke. I see through that sh*t. 

Exactly what I'm saying. Y our position is incorerct and people will see that. Thanks.