Beerfish Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 After looking at Jeremiahs top 50 players, this year there is a fair number of OT's in there and a decent number of WR's. Don't get finicky if a team does not give you the uber premium offer, have things ready to go to trade out unless perhaps if bosa falls to 3. We need picks in the sweet zone. mid 1st and a 2nd and other picks later down are going to be far better than who is there for us at #3 I know, i know, Mac can't pick 2nd rounders at all and he also cannot close the deal on short notice. (His big trade up last year was well ahead of time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Beerfish said: After looking at Jeremiahs top 50 players, this year there is a fair number of OT's in there and a decent number of WR's. Don't get finicky if a team does not give you the uber premium offer, have things ready to go to trade out unless perhaps if bosa falls to 3. We need picks in the sweet zone. mid 1st and a 2nd and other picks later down are going to be far better than who is there for us at #3 I know, i know, Mac can't pick 2nd rounders at all and he also cannot close the deal on short notice. (His big trade up last year was well ahead of time.) They only way we will be able to move down is if some team wants to go all in on Haskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 That would be great What team is trading what for whom? Factor in Flacco and foles first thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 Teams will trade up for a Qb or even a position player if you make it affordable for them. They won't if you ransom them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrebetfan80 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I honestly dont think it happens, We'd need these qbs to have monster pre drafts and for teams to get desperate, even so why trade to 3? You dont think Arizona or San Fran dont want to trade down as well? if mac is able to engineer a trade down in this draft for a qb, and we get a decent haul, he should be hailed as a miracle worker honestly. I'd be shocked if we dont stay at three and make the pick there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I could not agree more with your premise. To the extent that even if teams aren't beating down the Jets' door to move up to 3, I think Macc should be okay with the short end of a trade because it's better for the Jets overall. Macc always seems to end up with the short end of the trade, unfortunately. I think GM's know he has very little concept of how to use leverage when he has it and so they just always deal with him when he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 We haven't traded down since Parcells was the coach. No stand out players means we'll be drafting a defense player again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Beerfish said: Teams will trade up for a Qb or even a position player if you make it affordable for them. They won't if you ransom them. What’s the cheapest deal you’d take? If we’re not falling too far down, and we get a second round pick. Wouldn’t even care if we don’t get a future pick as well. Maybe make it a late 2020 pick but it wouldn’t take much for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Larz said: That would be great What team is trading what for whom? Factor in Flacco and foles first thanks ...and Teddy Bridgewater. I think the Jets may need to be willing to take less than full value in a trade down. Let's say (purely hypothetical), that a trade down from #3 to #10 with Denver SHOULD net you Denver's #10 pick, an additional 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder and another 2nd rounder in the 2020 Draft. If Denver offers it's #10, a 2nd, a 3rd and a 2020 4th then maybe you take it. This is especially the case if your Board suggests that there isn't much of a drop off or difference between the players you have ranked 8, 9, 10, etc. this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Every year the Jets should trade down. Every year, the Jets dont trade down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJet Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Gruden reportedly loves Kyler Murray. This is perfect news. We want the Raiders to want a QB, so teams will try to trade up above them. Hopefully to us... https://nypost.com/2019/01/23/it-sure-sounds-like-jon-gruden-wants-to-draft-kyler-murray/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Also, when it comes to QBs...I actually think that for the first time in a while it's not a position that is severely lacking in depth in the NFL. If a good QB averages a career of at least 10 years (and many are more like 15+) then in theory you only need about 2-3 successful QBs coming into the league each year on average. In recent years we've had Jared Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott and now Mayfield, Darnold, Lamar Jackson, Allen and Rosen enter the league. I'm not saying all of them are great but just about all of them seem like they'll be longterm starters in the NFL. That's 11 new QBs just in the past 3 seasons. There were some very lean QB drafts over the past decade (2013 - 2015) but the past 2-3 have been inordinately good, much better than average. Heck, even the 2012 Draft has produced 5-6 starters, 4 of which have been very successful (Luck, Foles, Russel Wilson, Cousins). The teams that have been QB starved for a long time have all started to find their QBs. The next phase of QB drafting in my opinion will be marked by the teams who've been riding great ones for more than decade trying to find replacements (Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Rivers, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc.). Heck, even guys like Stafford, Matt Ryan, etc. are looking at 11 years in the league now. With a thin group of QBs in the Draft this year (but better group next year) we may not see the power trade-ups moves in 2019 like we saw last year. Teams might go the route that Denver did with Case Keenum and try to sign an above average, experienced guy like Bridgewater, Foles or Flacco to get them to the 2020 draft. But mediocrity only gets you so far. The Jets know this all too well.....you need to either be really good or really bad, otherwise you're stuck in the middle with guys like Tannehill, Andy Dalton, etc. taking you to 8-8 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, IndianaJet said: Gruden reportedly loves Kyler Murray. This is perfect news. We want the Raiders to want a QB, so teams will try to trade up above them. Hopefully to us... https://nypost.com/2019/01/23/it-sure-sounds-like-jon-gruden-wants-to-draft-kyler-murray/ Or even just trade up TO us. Moving one spot won't net a ton of draft capital but it does do 3 things... 1. You get a return (say a 2nd or 3rd round pick) 2. You ensure that the position player you want will still be there at #4, getting the guy you would have taken at #3 anyway. (see caveat below) 3. Taking that guy at #4 becomes cheaper (even if just slightly). HOWEVER, be careful....the Raiders also need a pass rusher to replace Mack. If I'm the Raiders I'd start talking up Kyler Murray, swap picks with the Jets and then they take Josh Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 11 hours ago, RobR said: They only way we will be able to move down is if some team wants to go all in on Haskins. I think there are other teams targeting someone who they will trade up for. You know how crazy it gets pre draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dupe Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, peebag said: We haven't traded down since Parcells was the coach. To pass on Pace for a couple of jags. Brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 hours ago, IndianaJet said: Gruden reportedly loves Kyler Murray. This is perfect news. We want the Raiders to want a QB, so teams will try to trade up above them. Hopefully to us... https://nypost.com/2019/01/23/it-sure-sounds-like-jon-gruden-wants-to-draft-kyler-murray/ Gruden loves everyone. He's pretty much claimed his entire team at the Senior Bowl is going in the 1st round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 8 hours ago, JiF said: Gruden loves everyone. He's pretty much claimed his entire team at the Senior Bowl is going in the 1st round. That's basically how he was as an analyst calling the games on MNF. Every young player was a "stud"/future pro-bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Yeah, I agree with the premise. Getting more picks matters more than perceived "value" on "the chart." We have more needs and should be taking more shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 What happens if we trade down to 10, for example. Assuming the following players go in the top 9 picks for certain: Bosa, Q Williams, J Allen, Haskins, that leaves a potential 'big board' of the following 6 players: C Ferrell, Ed Oliver, G Williams, J Williams, Metcalf, and Jawaan Taylor. Totally random selection of the next few guys that fit a need but it helps illustrate the question. Would you rather have Josh Allen at 3, or one of those guys at 10 plus a 2nd this year and a 1st next year. Because that's what that sort of trade would look like if DEN really, really wanted to move up for Haskins, and while it's close to fair value by the chart, that's not even as much value as we used to get from 6 to 3 last year. We should probably get a lot more for that trade. 2nd round at DEN's pick puts some talented WRs, DEs or interior OL within reach. Some years, I see a top tier of 5-6 guys who I really want one of. This year, outside of Bosa, I'm not sure there's a clear dropoff. At least not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 A trade down would be great. I would love nothing more than to have a mid first rounder, a second, two 3rds and more. However, I also have no problem if the Jets draft Q.Williams. I know, I know, another D-lineman. Not a big need. Offense gets ignored. Etc. Etc. But if Bosa goes #1, Williams is the best player on the board. And there is no offensive talent I would take at #3. You can't rely on a trade down scenario. And I would not be surprised if Gregg Williams moved L.Williams to DT, drafts Q.Williams to play next to him and the Jets go after a DE Pass Rusher in Free Agency like Flowers or Fowler or Clowney or Lawrence or Ansah etc. There happens to be a ton of options in FA for DE pass rusher. I would also re-sign H.Anderson because he has shown he can be a productive pass rusher albeit fits more as a 3-4 DE. D-Line: H.Anderson, Q.Williams, L.Williams, Fowler/Ansah/Clowney/Flowers/Lawrence, etc. This line would wreak havoc for the opposing QB and RB. I would invest heavily in FA O-linemen to shore up the Center and OT positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinamite Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 12:41 AM, Beerfish said: After looking at Jeremiahs top 50 players, this year there is a fair number of OT's in there and a decent number of WR's. Don't get finicky if a team does not give you the uber premium offer, have things ready to go to trade out unless perhaps if bosa falls to 3. We need picks in the sweet zone. mid 1st and a 2nd and other picks later down are going to be far better than who is there for us at #3 I know, i know, Mac can't pick 2nd rounders at all and he also cannot close the deal on short notice. (His big trade up last year was well ahead of time.) I looked at the same list and a few "mock drafts" recently For all the draft experts, does it seem like besides Bosa at 1, there is no consensus players in the top 5? and that every player seems to be mocked as high as top 3 and as low as top 15 in some cases. I have seen Jonah Williams mocked at 3 to the jets or all the way in the mid to late first for example. Perhaps it is early (precombine), but it seemed like last year, besides the qbs, everyone had barkley, chubb, etc in top 5 pretty consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 14 hours ago, Dinamite said: I looked at the same list and a few "mock drafts" recently For all the draft experts, does it seem like besides Bosa at 1, there is no consensus players in the top 5? and that every player seems to be mocked as high as top 3 and as low as top 15 in some cases. I have seen Jonah Williams mocked at 3 to the jets or all the way in the mid to late first for example. Perhaps it is early (precombine), but it seemed like last year, besides the qbs, everyone had barkley, chubb, etc in top 5 pretty consistently. the consensus seems to be some combination of bosa/allen/q. williams are the top 3 prospects at least for right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Bodies, they need bodies, some basic foundational solid players not superstars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 11:47 AM, jetstream23 said: Or even just trade up TO us. Moving one spot won't net a ton of draft capital but it does do 3 things... 1. You get a return (say a 2nd or 3rd round pick) 2. You ensure that the position player you want will still be there at #4, getting the guy you would have taken at #3 anyway. (see caveat below) 3. Taking that guy at #4 becomes cheaper (even if just slightly). HOWEVER, be careful....the Raiders also need a pass rusher to replace Mack. If I'm the Raiders I'd start talking up Kyler Murray, swap picks with the Jets and then they take Josh Allen. I would think that you would discuss the player that they would want first, no? Remember last year, Buffalo and Denver had a deal in place for Bills to move up to #5, but when Chubb was there it killed the deal. In this case, since you would only be going down one spot, you would definitely ask the question, especially if Allen is your guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 17 hours ago, Dinamite said: I looked at the same list and a few "mock drafts" recently For all the draft experts, does it seem like besides Bosa at 1, there is no consensus players in the top 5? and that every player seems to be mocked as high as top 3 and as low as top 15 in some cases. I have seen Jonah Williams mocked at 3 to the jets or all the way in the mid to late first for example. Perhaps it is early (precombine), but it seemed like last year, besides the qbs, everyone had barkley, chubb, etc in top 5 pretty consistently. Bosa isn't #1 in every mock. I have seen Allen and Q Williams in that slot in a few mocks although Bosa is still the favorite. I haven't seen any legitimate mock that didn't have Allen in the top-3 or Q Williams in the top-5. I'm also seeing Rashan Gary in the top-5 in almost every mock. What is interesting is that Jonah Williams is often the 2nd or even 3rd OL taken in more and more mocks. Different combinations of Taylor, Ford, Little and Jonah all over the place. Looking at how many legit-looking pass rushers will be entering the league this year, compared to so few legit OL, you have to wonder if sacks will be way up next season and scoring down. Or will the NFL just find more ways to help the offenses limp along (like not calling mind-blowingly obvious PI and helmet-to-helmet violations). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas2No99 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Drew Lock - QB - Player According to the Denver Post's Mark Kiszla, the "worst kept secret at the Senior Bowl" was that Broncos GM John Elway is "smitten" with Missouri QB Drew Lock. The Broncos pick at No. 10 overall, behind the also-quarterback-needy Giants (No. 6) and Jaguars (No. 7). Per the Denver Post's Ryan O'Halloran, Elway "barely left the quarterback group" during his three-day stay in Mobile. Lock is highly thought of from an upside standpoint, but he completed under 57 percent of his college throws and struggled against top competition. Incumbent Broncos starter Case Keenum lost a supporter when the team let Gary Kubiak out the door. Related: Broncos Source: Denver Post Jan 28 - 5:27 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raideraholic Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 On January 23, 2019 at 11:37 AM, IndianaJet said: Gruden reportedly loves Kyler Murray. This is perfect news. We want the Raiders to want a QB, so teams will try to trade up above them. Hopefully to us... https://nypost.com/2019/01/23/it-sure-sounds-like-jon-gruden-wants-to-draft-kyler-murray/ The Raiders aren't trading up in this draft, and are the most likely team to trade back in this draft. ( there are three players head and shoulder above the rest - N Bosa , Q Willians, and Josh Allen ). The Raiders sitting at 4 will draft a pass rushing De( can drop back and still get a guy like M Sweet) . D Carr is the least of the Raiders problems. He isn't going anywhere. Let's see first year playing in a new system( J Gruden) , offensive line due to injuries was suppose to be a strength - was really bad.( started two rookie tackles). Not to mention Gruden gutted the wr position. The first thing the Raiders must do is upgrade Rt position as B Parker wasn't ready to start(was never expected to play last year- D Penn injury forced him into the lineup. Probably can fix the offense line internally. LT K Miller , Lg Gabe Jackson( played with torn labrum he did in week one) C R Hudson RG D Good ( Fa expect them to re-sign) Rt K Osemele ( Would move him from lg to Rt. Lets see what Rams give the Raiders for giving them a gift.( Cj Anderson) when Gurley was hurt. The Raiders cut him after signing him , so his buddy S Mcvay could sign him. Time to wink wink return the favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYDreamer Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 If the Jets can do what the Colts did last year by picking up the extra 2 picks and moving down 3 spots, they built one of the best young solid offensive lines to protect the Franchise QB. Now we are at 3 and my hope would be to do what they did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 On 1/28/2019 at 1:20 PM, section314 said: I would think that you would discuss the player that they would want first, no? Remember last year, Buffalo and Denver had a deal in place for Bills to move up to #5, but when Chubb was there it killed the deal. In this case, since you would only be going down one spot, you would definitely ask the question, especially if Allen is your guy. Can't they just change their mind? Or lie? If they say "yeah sure. We will draft KM if we trade" and then they decide to take Bosa (let's say he's there for arguments sake) instead. Is there any real legal obligation once the pick is theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsons Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 To trade you Need a partner... it's real easy to say someone will look to trade up until draft day comes & no one does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas2No99 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 11 hours ago, GREENBEAN said: Can't they just change their mind? Or lie? If they say "yeah sure. We will draft KM if we trade" and then they decide to take Bosa (let's say he's there for arguments sake) instead. Is there any real legal obligation once the pick is theirs? Once you lose your Word in business negotiations or re-neg, you LOSE CREDIBILITY in your industry (in the NFL, the OTHER 31 teams) and NO ONE will want to work with you b/c you have demonstrated to go back on your word. Word is Bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Gas2No99 said: Once you lose your Word in business negotiations or re-neg, you LOSE CREDIBILITY in your industry (in the NFL, the OTHER 31 teams) and NO ONE will want to work with you b/c you have demonstrated to go back on your word. Word is Bond. Gruden and Mayock have much more street cred built up than Macc. They can tell him whatever he wants to hear, screw him over and then tell everyone he's FOS. Macchiato's gets fired for being an idiot and they never have t worry about repercussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 11:37 AM, IndianaJet said: Gruden reportedly loves Kyler Murray. This is perfect news. We want the Raiders to want a QB, so teams will try to trade up above them. Hopefully to us... https://nypost.com/2019/01/23/it-sure-sounds-like-jon-gruden-wants-to-draft-kyler-murray/ Gruden loves every QB he's not currently coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 10:20 AM, peebag said: We haven't traded down since Parcells was the coach. No stand out players means we'll be drafting a defense player again. Trading down really work out well for us that year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said: Gruden loves every QB he's not currently coaching. Yes, he even traded for Hackenberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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