Rhg1084 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 This upcoming Super Bowl is a good contradiction of the old guard vs new guard. New England is the old guard with the way they built their team thru the draft and not really ever making big splashes thru free agency. The Rams, on the other hand, have fully embraced the free agent market and have added a lot of “problem” players (talib, suh, Fowler). Add in other nice signings like Robert Woods and Brandon Cooks (trade and sign) the Rams have built an extremely dangerous team under rookie contract Jared Goff. The Jets are in a very similar situation as the Rams and can build around a rookie contract QB. However, the rams are the outlier as I don’t remember a team building through free agency as successful as they did. The NFL is a copycat league and it should be interesting and take a play out of the rams playbook. That means taking in “problem players” too (Kareem Hunt? Fowler). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Next year would be a year too early for the Jets to try that strategy. A Mawae like FA signing would be a good thing. It would be interesting to present not only available cap space, but available cap space per open spot. The Jets have the fewest players under contract in the league. When that is taken into account, the Jets do not have that much cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, varjet said: Next year would be a year too early for the Jets to try that strategy. A Mawae like FA signing would be a good thing. It would be interesting to present not only available cap space, but available cap space per open spot. The Jets have the fewest players under contract in the league. When that is taken into account, the Jets do not have that much cap space. The rams turned their team around very quickly employing this strategy and think it’d be beneficial for the jets too. Go after the talented guys in free agent regardless if they’re deemed “locker room cancers” or whatever. Talent is the most important factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: This upcoming Super Bowl is a good contradiction of the old guard vs new guard. New England is the old guard with the way they built their team thru the draft and not really ever making big splashes thru free agency. The Rams, on the other hand, have fully embraced the free agent market and have added a lot of “problem” players (talib, suh, Fowler). Add in other nice signings like Robert Woods and Brandon Cooks (trade and sign) the Rams have built an extremely dangerous team under rookie contract Jared Goff. The Jets are in a very similar situation as the Rams and can build around a rookie contract QB. However, the rams are the outlier as I don’t remember a team building through free agency as successful as they did. The NFL is a copycat league and it should be interesting and take a play out of the rams playbook. That means taking in “problem players” too (Kareem Hunt? Fowler). The 3 most important players on the Rams, Goff, Donald, and Gurley are all draft picks. They're unquestionably the core. The Jets are only in a similar situation to the Rams in that we hope that Darnold can be as good or better than Goff. We don't have a young playmaker on either side of the ball that's anywhere near the caliber of Donald and Gurley. When the Jets add more young talent, then we can spend to supplement it. Before will not work. Never has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, TeddEY said: The 3 most important players on the Rams, Goff, Donald, and Gurley are all draft picks. They're unquestionably the core. The Jets are only in a similar situation to the Rams in that we hope that Darnold can be as good or better than Goff. We don't have a young playmaker on either side of the ball that's anywhere near the caliber of Donald and Gurley. When the Jets add more young talent, then we can spend to supplement it. Before will not work. Never has. So you’re saying the jets should just not spend on free agents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Teams that draft well, do better. No surprise there. But what are the rest of the teams supposed to do? Shrug and say "we prefer to stick to the draft and forfeit the season?" If you can't draft well, you gotta take the high risk approach and import. It's like criticizing someone for trying to swim to shore after their boat sinks, "well the best option is to sail your boat to the dock..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: So you’re saying the jets should just not spend on free agents? The Jets should use FA to shore up the offensive line, as this is an investment in Darnold. Otherwise, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, jgb said: Teams that draft well, do better. No surprise there. But what are the rest of the teams supposed to do? Shrug and say "we prefer to stick to the draft and forfeit the season?" If you can't draft well, you gotta take the high risk approach and import. It's like criticizing someone for trying to swim to shore after their boat sinks, "well the best option is to sail your boat to the dock..." The other teams are supposed to find better shipwrights... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, TeddEY said: The 3 most important players on the Rams, Goff, Donald, and Gurley are all draft picks. They're unquestionably the core. The Jets are only in a similar situation to the Rams in that we hope that Darnold can be as good or better than Goff. We don't have a young playmaker on either side of the ball that's anywhere near the caliber of Donald and Gurley. When the Jets add more young talent, then we can spend to supplement it. Before will not work. Never has. I get your point, but this team has 30ish signed players right now. Of those, most are below average to average at their positions. This team has one elite player in Jamal Adams, who it might have been mentioned, is a safety. We not only need upgrades at most positions, we need bodies to play those positions. It was startling to see in another thread here today that the Browns, with a much more talented roster, have 60 players signed, and only $9 million less in available cap space then the Jets. Our team is a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, TeddEY said: The Jets should use FA to shore up the offensive line, as this is an investment in Darnold. Otherwise, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Woody Johnson approves this message Just now, TeddEY said: The other teams are supposed to find better shipwrights... Reminds me of an old joke. There is a story that has been going around about a physicist, a chemist, and an economist who were stranded on a desert island with no implements and a can of food. The physicist and the chemist each devised an ingenious mechanism for getting the can open; the economist merely said, "Assume we have a can opener"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 The Eagles won the superbowl last year after loading up with FA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, TeddEY said: The Jets should use FA to shore up the offensive line, as this is an investment in Darnold. Otherwise, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Absolutely they need to fix their offensive line. However they should also make big splashes in free agency like either Hunt or Bell. And a big time pass rusher like Lawrence, Flowers, Ford, Fowler. A lock down corner, and a wide receiver (maybe in the trade market). If they can accomplish all this no reason they can’t be in the Super Bowl in 2 years a la the Rams who had a 2 year rebuil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, TeddEY said: The 3 most important players on the Rams, Goff, Donald, and Gurley are all draft picks. They're unquestionably the core. The Jets are only in a similar situation to the Rams in that we hope that Darnold can be as good or better than Goff. We don't have a young playmaker on either side of the ball that's anywhere near the caliber of Donald and Gurley. When the Jets add more young talent, then we can spend to supplement it. Before will not work. Never has. Sounds an awful lot like the fans who said we can't draft a QB until we have the line to protect him... but it's not worth investing in the line until we have a QB worth protecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: This upcoming Super Bowl is a good contradiction of the old guard vs new guard. New England is the old guard with the way they built their team thru the draft and not really ever making big splashes thru free agency. The Rams, on the other hand, have fully embraced the free agent market and have added a lot of “problem” players (talib, suh, Fowler). Add in other nice signings like Robert Woods and Brandon Cooks (trade and sign) the Rams have built an extremely dangerous team under rookie contract Jared Goff. The Jets are in a very similar situation as the Rams and can build around a rookie contract QB. However, the rams are the outlier as I don’t remember a team building through free agency as successful as they did. The NFL is a copycat league and it should be interesting and take a play out of the rams playbook. That means taking in “problem players” too (Kareem Hunt? Fowler). This is true but the Rams also have been very strong in the draft as well. It takes balance. Roger Saffold, Michael Brockers, Greg Zuerlein, Todd Gurley, Rob Havenstein, Aaron Donald, Lamacrus Joyner, John Joyner, Higbee, Gerald Everett, Cooper Kupp, Josh Reyonlds - all draft picks. And that doesnt include other solid picks they've had like; Janoris Jenkins, Alec Olgetree, Jamon Brown, EJ Gaines, TJ McDonald, Robert Quinn - in which some of those they received compensation for and they also got ridiculous comp from the RIII trade. That's 10x the talent the Jets have acquired in the same time frame and they've hit on their FA/trade adds. It takes balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, TeddEY said: The Jets should use FA to shore up the offensive line, as this is an investment in Darnold. Otherwise, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The further implication is the expectation that players to be drafted after this FA class will immediately play on the level of 2nd, 3rd, 4th year veterans. Typically they do not, or anyway it shouldn't be expected. As veteran contracts are also generally structured with the lowest cap hits in year 1, we're less able to build/sign 1-year veterans around those larger contracts. By the time the rookies are really hitting their stride, a $17MM/year FA will be in a $21MM cap-hit season (and similar for other 2019-signed FAs). 100% on shoring up help around Darnold. At least this way if they don't win it all we've helped develop the one player who's not only the most important but also the only one who figures to last another 15 years here. Finish drafting a Rams-like core at the most important positions - Darnold is one, assuming he's all we hope he is - and not much else. Build around him before we hyper-prioritize inking the next $15MM/year corner. Only exception I'm interested in is edge rusher because there are so few seriously good/productive ones, but it remains to be seen who'll be available when FA actually begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freemanm Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 We tried building through FA in Macc’s 1st year. Didn’t turn out too well. The Pats are good because of Tom Brady. That’s it. that said, there are some good FA signings we can make, but drafting (not Macc’s strong suit) is the way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 I feel like the Jets can make some big splashes in free agency like the Rams did they can be in the superbowl within 2 years (like the Rams) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, varjet said: Next year would be a year too early for the Jets to try that strategy. A Mawae like FA signing would be a good thing. It would be interesting to present not only available cap space, but available cap space per open spot. The Jets have the fewest players under contract in the league. When that is taken into account, the Jets do not have that much cap space. This. Build the foundation and the culture first. When you're knocking on the door of contending (a 10-win team trying to get to 12 the following season), that's when you add one or two high-risk/high-reward players (ex. Santonio Holmes) to try to push you over the top. But you need a locker room that can sustain that type of addition. It has to be a culturally healthy team with good attitudes and work ethics. It's the difference between adding a questionable guy who gives the team a minor cold/cough versus giving a susceptible team the flu and taking it off the tracks. I agree that we're at least a year away from these types of additions. After all, we just ridded ourselves of the Wilkerson types here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: I feel like the Jets can make some big splashes in free agency like the Rams did they can be in the superbowl within 2 years (like the Rams) A lot of teams feel that way, and a lot of things have to go right for it to happen. We're assuming that Gase is successful, that Darnold continues developing into a Top 10 NFL QB, that Gregg Williams successfully transforms the defense, that the Jets draft well for the next two year. IF all of those things happen then yes, the Rams approach of adding a few questionable but talented players could get a team to the Super Bowl. Don't you think adding one or two players to the Chiefs, Cowboys, Texans, Colts, etc. could do the same thing for them? They're much closer than the Jets to contending. Heck, even the Browns are closer given the talent they have on that team. There are 29 teams in the NFL who aren't in the Super Bowl. All of them are going to make moves (new Head Coaches, cutting players, signing free agents, drafting players). And all 29 teams will feel like they're better come August. Only about half of them will be better than they were in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, 14 in Green said: I get your point, but this team has 30ish signed players right now. Of those, most are below average to average at their positions. This team has one elite player in Jamal Adams, who it might have been mentioned, is a safety. We not only need upgrades at most positions, we need bodies to play those positions. It was startling to see in another thread here today that the Browns, with a much more talented roster, have 60 players signed, and only $9 million less in available cap space then the Jets. Our team is a mess. Obviously we need to fill out a roster, but I'm talking more about adding the big name, expensive FAs. I'll pass on the "elite" debate, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, jgb said: Sounds an awful lot like the fans who said we can't draft a QB until we have the line to protect him... but it's not worth investing in the line until we have a QB worth protecting. Anyone who said not to draft a QB at any time, when you don't have one, isn't worth listening too. We should have traded up for Goff/Wentz. We should have passed on Adams for Watson/Mahommes. We finally did something thereafter with the trade to 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, jgb said: Teams that draft well, do better. No surprise there. But what are the rest of the teams supposed to do? Shrug and say "we prefer to stick to the draft and forfeit the season?" If you can't draft well, you gotta take the high risk approach and import. It's like criticizing someone for trying to swim to shore after their boat sinks, "well the best option is to sail your boat to the dock..." it's easy enough to do the math. each year a team needs to replace 10+ players and there are only 6 draft rounds. the rest have got to come from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said: Absolutely they need to fix their offensive line. However they should also make big splashes in free agency like either Hunt or Bell. And a big time pass rusher like Lawrence, Flowers, Ford, Fowler. A lock down corner, and a wide receiver (maybe in the trade market). If they can accomplish all this no reason they can’t be in the Super Bowl in 2 years a la the Rams who had a 2 year rebuil. Signing Bell will be a disaster. @OldTakesExposed me on that one if you must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, rangerous said: it's easy enough to do the math. each year a team needs to replace 10+ players and there are only 6 draft rounds. the rest have got to come from somewhere. This post has two numbers, and they’re both wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL047 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 The Jets have been there and done that with free agency!!!! Different GMs have tried and failed signing free agents and it each time resulted in a losing season. They all had that idea of signing high priced FA's and build a playoff team through free agency and it failed. The reason the Rams succeeded is they combined both drafting and free agent signing. Look at how long it took to get this way and it didn't take one or two years. it started when Jeff Fischer was their coach and continued with McVay. Currently the Jets have no foundation, drafting Darnold isn't the foundation, he is only a piece of the foundation. They need to continue building that foundation whether by drafting or by signing FAs and it won't take two years to do it. Look at the Patriots, why are they always winning the division and in the playoffs its not only because of Tom Brady its because they keep replacing players through the draft and signing certain free agents. Every year they continue that trend and it has been successful from every year. The Jets needs to keep building their foundation and don't believe it will take only one or two years!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 31 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said: This post has two numbers, and they’re both wrong. okay wise guy. you're right there are 7 rounds but how many players do teams churn through each year? you think 10? more than 10? less than 10? since the average nfl career is around 4 years or so it's over 10 but below 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenamathwouldn'tcry Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 It seems that the key to building a successful NFL roster these days is to draft well, extend those good players before they hit free agency and to cut bait with draft picks that don't live up to potential quickly. Another team building tool is to identify talented undrafted young free agents, develop them and retain them before they hit free agency. Good teams do this. The Jets have not. In fact the Jets were the only team in the league this year without a true extended player contract on their roster. This is an indictment of Mr. MacCagnan and our scouting and player development staffs. Good teams are not built through Unrestricted Free Agency, which is what we hope to do to some extent this off season. These players tend to get contracts that pay above their talent level. This is the bed we have made. Hopefully the new Coaching Staff will help to better develop draft picks and undrafted free agents. The GM must do a better job drafting and must hit on all his undrafted signings this offseason. If not, he should be toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 The Rams have a brilliant head coach and a lot of offensive talent. Right now they see a window to win and are absolutely going after it. Kudos to them. Windows can close quickly. Most of their question mark acquisitions have come on defense where I think it’s easier to make that work. They’re being carried by the offense, McVay, and Donald though. Big takeaway for me is they made two huge offensive line acquisitions in FA that really solidified that unit. That is doable and something the Jets should be serious about. Hard to get guys to translate from college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, JiF said: This is true but the Rams also have been very strong in the draft as well. It takes balance. Roger Saffold, Michael Brockers, Greg Zuerlein, Todd Gurley, Rob Havenstein, Aaron Donald, Lamacrus Joyner, John Joyner, Higbee, Gerald Everett, Cooper Kupp, Josh Reyonlds - all draft picks. And that doesnt include other solid picks they've had like; Janoris Jenkins, Alec Olgetree, Jamon Brown, EJ Gaines, TJ McDonald, Robert Quinn - in which some of those they received compensation for and they also got ridiculous comp from the RIII trade. That's 10x the talent the Jets have acquired in the same time frame and they've hit on their FA/trade adds. It takes balance. How did you manage to list that many Rans draft picks and miss Goff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 36 minutes ago, rangerous said: okay wise guy. you're right there are 7 rounds but how many players do teams churn through each year? you think 10? more than 10? less than 10? since the average nfl career is around 4 years or so it's over 10 but below 20. I know they keep changing it, but I thought offseason rosters got as high as 90 before cut downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, CTM said: How did you manage to list that many Rans draft picks and miss Goff? I was listing the Rams picks, not the Rans. Leaving off Goff wasnt intentional but did I really need to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Greenseed4 said: I know they keep changing it, but I thought offseason rosters got as high as 90 before cut downs. i'm talking about the 53 man season roster change. if you want to account for the 90 man spring roster then the churn is considerably higher than 10 players. the point still remains the same either way because there aren't enough draft picks to account for the turnover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TokyoJetsFan Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I think you need at least one legit play making superstar. They rarely come available in free agency, but in my opinion Bell is that rare commodity. Not many teams have more than one or two of these outliers. Spend a boatload on Bell and then spend the rest on shoring up the trenches. You can disagree on Bell and throw out another name you think is a legit game changer, but the idea is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, rangerous said: i'm talking about the 53 man season roster change. if you want to account for the 90 man spring roster then the churn is considerably higher than 10 players. the point still remains the same either way because there aren't enough draft picks to account for the turnover. Yes. But your point is that you can’t solely build through the draft, teams need to be active in free agency, when in reality UDFAs account for a large sourcing pool for rosters. Splitting hairs, I know. I really just wanted to make a joke about the “easy math” comment coupled with the “6 rounds” gaffe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 They need to sign guys to below market deals, but only the good players Duh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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