Building a team through free agency

[Greenseed4]

Easy peezy.

 

sign LT, Trent Brown. Move Beachum to RT. Two spots, solid. 

sign C Matt Paradis. Move Harrison to the fry cooker at Arby’s. 

sign Dee Ford, play him at LG since he lines up there anyway. 

Keep Winters. 

Draft Josh Allen in the first.

[UnknownJetFan]

6 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

The rams turned their team around very quickly employing this strategy and think it’d be beneficial for the jets too. Go after the talented guys in free agent regardless if they’re deemed “locker room cancers” or whatever. Talent is the most important factor.

I said that in another post, but just adding some problem children in WR Brown and RB Bell even with our current Oline would turn this O into a much more dangerous scoring offense and probably keep our D off the field more often. I know everyone says Oline, and we need FA/draft to make that much improved, but Bell would make a lot of holes that our current RBs can't and out of the backfield and Brown running around both making plays along with Darnold's improvising skills, the D would be on the field much less and be a lot better especially with the addition of a few Pass rushers like Fowler (if we can't get anything better from FA) and a draft pick, plus Luvu getting better under DC Williams. We certainly are trying to get FA and draft pass rushers, heck they are already looking at Jaylon Williams is it from college, so they are going to beef up in that area, which will even make the CBs have to cover for less time. 

[Jetscode1]

6 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Absolutely they need to fix their offensive line. However they should also make big splashes in free agency like either Hunt or Bell. And a big time pass rusher like Lawrence, Flowers, Ford, Fowler. A lock down corner, and a wide receiver (maybe in the trade market). If they can accomplish all this no reason they can’t be in the Super Bowl in 2 years a la the Rams who had a 2 year rebuil. 

This checks!  So easy peasy.  Just do this. 

[Greenseed4]

I’ll make this easy...

LT, Trent Brown 

C, Matt Paradis

DE, Dee Ford

Draft, Josh Allen

 

...done  

[Jetster]

Wow, does anyone here have a memory of 2009, 2010 Jets? The teams in the playoffs that year had more balance & were better than this years AFC playoff teams. KC has a great offense, AND ZERO DEFENSE. 

Outside of DBrick & Mangold, those teams were loaded with free agents & trade acquisitions. Sanchez wasn't close to the player Darnold is or will be. 

Hell, didn't Rex bring over Bart Scott, and our safety, DE from the Ravens? 

Name the last time a top 3 RB became available in free agency? Bell is a no brainer, HUGE UPGRADE at RB & pass catcher out of the backfield. Add Trent Brown & Paradis. Oline is upgraded. That's only 3 free agents so far. 

Add either Clowney, Trey Flowers, or Dee Ford & draft Clelin Farrell & you have a top 5 front 4. This is a 2 year process for playoff berth but it can definitely happen next year. Miami & the Bills both have QBs that will struggle with pressure from a Gregg Williams defense. Build a team that can win 6/7of 8 division games. That means you need to win 3-4 out of your outside the division games for a chance to make the playoffs. After 2019 with Darnold and more additions the Jets should be thinking every year he's here is playoffs or bust. 

Other than Mahomes, Mayfield, Watson & Luck, the AFC QBs are getting old! Brady, Big Ben, Rivers, the rest are mediocre or just plain bad. Josh Allens accuracy issues won't be easy to fix. So the best young QBs in the AFC reside in different divisions. Mahomes in the West, Mayfield in the Central, Luck in the South & Darnold in the East. Dominate the division, get to the tournament. This is why I'm excited about this next 5 years of Jets football.

First franchise QB in years, an offensive head coach with head coaching EXPERIENCE, a DC with many years & some HC EXPERIENCE, a proven Special Teams coach, a proven Oline coach. This group is far superior to any coaching group we've had since Parcells was here regarding experience. 

[GREENBEAN]

19 hours ago, jgb said:

Teams that draft well, do better. No surprise there. But what are the rest of the teams supposed to do? Shrug and say "we prefer to stick to the draft and forfeit the season?"

If you can't draft well, you gotta take the high risk approach and import. It's like criticizing someone for trying to swim to shore after their boat sinks, "well the best option is to sail your boat to the dock..."

I like your analogy.  It really does a good job of making the point.

My belief is that Macc has been learning and improving. I know people don't like him and for good reason, but he's been improving with the draft. 2018 is a pretty solid class for us and I look forward to see what real coaching can do for the young guys we drafted. i'm more excited about that than anything else really. 

If we can trade back to acquire more picks like a 2nd and another 1st next year, we may be able to ride Macc's upward trajectory to this idea of building the core through the draft. Add a LT, WR to Darnold, Herndon, Adams etc and then applying the OP's idea of mimicking the Rams' rousing out the roster in FA. 

If we blow this draft and FA period it's gonna be harder to do that obviously. 

I'd really like Paradis in FA this year to anchor the line. Then go draft to get the rest of our young stud O lineman to grow with Darnold. 

[bitonti]

14 hours ago, Larz said:

They need to sign guys to below market deals, but only the good players 

Duh 

the Jets have a franchise QB on his rookie contract. The time to spend and overspend is now and for the next 3 years

when Darnold needs his deal then the franchise can shift into "below market" mode because the money is spent on QB (and probably the Jets won't be as good as they were the 3 years prior) 

The team underfunded the roster last year and now they are 100 mil under. I don't want to hear anymore about being frugal. This money between the floor and the cap, all it does is go back into the owners pockets. 

 

[Philc1]

8 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

I’ll make this easy...

LT, Trent Brown 

C, Matt Paradis

DE, Dee Ford

Draft, Josh Allen

 

...done  

[GREENBEAN]

14 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

Easy peezy.

 

sign LT, Trent Brown. Move Beachum to RT. Two spots, solid. 

sign C Matt Paradis. Move Harrison to the fry cooker at Arby’s. 

sign Dee Ford, play him at LG since he lines up there anyway. 

Keep Winters. 

Draft Josh Allen in the first.

I see whatcha did there,  

That guy must be hating himself so much these days. He may be damaged to the same degree as Scott Norwood after that boneheaded move to lose the game. 

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, GREENBEAN said:

I see whatcha did there,  

That guy must be hating himself so much these days. He may be damaged to the same degree as Scott Norwood after that boneheaded move to lose the game. 

Maybe the Texans decide not to tag Clowney.

 

Another option is Dante Fowler who I don’t like but would be fine if he was rushing opposite Josh Allen or Clellin Ferrell

 

[Jetster]

9 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I like your analogy.  It really does a good job of making the point.

My belief is that Macc has been learning and improving. I know people don't like him and for good reason, but he's been improving with the draft. 2018 is a pretty solid class for us and I look forward to see what real coaching can do for the young guys we drafted. i'm more excited about that than anything else really. 

If we can trade back to acquire more picks like a 2nd and another 1st next year, we may be able to ride Macc's upward trajectory to this idea of building the core through the draft. Add a LT, WR to Darnold, Herndon, Adams etc and then applying the OP's idea of mimicking the Rams' rousing out the roster in FA. 

If we blow this draft and FA period it's gonna be harder to do that obviously. 

I'd really like Paradis in FA this year to anchor the line. Then go draft to get the rest of our young stud O lineman to grow with Darnold. 

We have no idea what we have in Bones Jones or Perry Nickerson, and a few other guys on this roster. Bowles was TERRIBLE at development & coaching. Do you think Todd Bowles could develop Edelman like the Pats did? 

Bowles & Rogers were literally roll the ball out coaches, Bates too. Literally zero adjustments. I still can't believe Bowles was paid millions to ruin my team.

[GREENBEAN]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Maybe the Texans decide not to tag Clowney.

 

Another option is Dante Fowler who I don’t like but would be fine if he was rushing opposite Josh Allen or Clellin Ferrell

 

Fowler is being hailed as a hero in LA. I would imagine he's enjoying his time on the Rams and they are liking him after that big game last week. I see the Rams retaining his services. 

[Philc1]

Just now, GREENBEAN said:

Fowler is being hailed as a hero in LA. I would imagine he's enjoying his time on the Rams and they are liking him after that big game last week. I see the Rams retaining his services. 

But they have to pay him.  Suh is also a free agent.  The jets are going to be able to offer $30-40 million more and I don’t see Fowler as this principled guy who only cares about winning he will go where the cash is

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

We have no idea what we have in Bones Jones or Perry Nickerson, and a few other guys on this roster. Bowles was TERRIBLE at development & coaching. Do you think Todd Bowles could develop Edelman like the Pats did? 

Bowles & Rogers were literally roll the ball out coaches, Bates too. Literally zero adjustments. I still can't believe Bowles was paid millions to ruin my team.

Todd Bowles was terrible at development he's a former DB coach who turned Jamal Adams into a first team All Pro 

also there was this Run Run Pass post on Reddit. This idea that Jeremy Bates never adjusted and ran the team into the ground 1st and 2nd down was not true 

https://imgur.com/a/vGyIcKb#BE2Ncjl

basically the team told everyone the coaches were the problem but they underfunded the roster.

Parry Nickerson? The, GREAT, Parry Nickerson Aka Poor man's Buster Skrine? he's a developmental slot nickel cb. 

The team wasn't ruined by Bowles. It was ruined because they were going to fire Bowles and he was going to take all the blame anyway, so why even try? 

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

We have no idea what we have in Bones Jones or Perry Nickerson, and a few other guys on this roster. Bowles was TERRIBLE at development & coaching. Do you think Todd Bowles could develop Edelman like the Pats did? 

Bowles & Rogers were literally roll the ball out coaches, Bates too. Literally zero adjustments. I still can't believe Bowles was paid millions to ruin my team.

I want the jets to sign Bradley Roby

[Philc1]

Just now, bitonti said:

Todd Bowles was terrible at development he's a former DB coach who turned Jamal Adams into a first team All Pro 

also there was this Run Run Pass post on Reddit. This idea that Jeremy Bates never adjusted and ran the team into the ground 1st and 2nd down was not true 

basically the team told everyone the coaches were the problem but they underfunded the roster.

Parry Nickerson? The, GREAT, Parry Nickerson Aka Poor man's Buster Skrine? he's a developmental slot nickel cb. 

The team wasn't ruined by Bowles. It was ruined because they were going to fire Bowles and he was going to take all the blame anyway, so why even try? 

I don’t mind Nickerson and I thought he showed something last year but I want Bradley Roby as our nickel next season

 

Nickerson is a depth guy

[GREENBEAN]

2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

We have no idea what we have in Bones Jones or Perry Nickerson, and a few other guys on this roster. Bowles was TERRIBLE at development & coaching. Do you think Todd Bowles could develop Edelman like the Pats did? 

Bowles & Rogers were literally roll the ball out coaches, Bates too. Literally zero adjustments. I still can't believe Bowles was paid millions to ruin my team.

That is the main reason I have hope. I think many of the guys we have had little chance of developing their skills more than what they could muster up on their own. That last vid of Kacy Rodgers presser showed just how antiquated his approach was. Our staff was way behind the curve on being able to keep up with the young offensive minds in the NFL. We made our game plan, which was never going to work, and stuck to it. Very little creativity and no real adjustments.  I could just be a hopeful homer, but I really believe we will see am uptick in both player development and players participating in more creative game planning and in game adjustments. Players actually being in position could change the entire experience being a Jets fan. 

[Greensleeves]

19 hours ago, Freemanm said:

We tried building through FA in Macc’s 1st year. Didn’t turn out too well. The Pats are good because of Tom Brady. That’s it.

that said, there are some good FA signings we can make, but drafting (not Macc’s strong suit) is the way to go

Brady and coaching - they easily have the best staff in football. 

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Jetster said:

We have no idea what we have in Bones Jones or Perry Nickerson, and a few other guys on this roster. Bowles was TERRIBLE at development & coaching. Do you think Todd Bowles could develop Edelman like the Pats did? 

Bowles & Rogers were literally roll the ball out coaches, Bates too. Literally zero adjustments. I still can't believe Bowles was paid millions to ruin my team.

Which explains why Devin Smith, Lorenzo Maudlin, Bryce Petty, Jarvis Harrison, Christian Hackenberg, Juston Burris, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen, and Dylan Donahue have all gone on, after being crippled by the awful coaching of Todd Bowles, to great success in the league once they've gotten opportunities with good coaches.

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Todd Bowles was terrible at development he's a former DB coach who turned Jamal Adams into a first team All Pro 

That was all Jamal Adams, coaching had nothing to do with his success.  Coaching is only a factor for the really good players we have who play bad.

[JoJoTownsell1]

20 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

This upcoming Super Bowl is a good contradiction of the old guard vs new guard. New England is the old guard with the way they built their team thru the draft and not really ever making big splashes thru free agency. The Rams, on the other hand, have fully embraced the free agent market and have added a lot of “problem” players (talib, suh, Fowler). Add in other nice signings like Robert Woods and Brandon Cooks (trade and sign) the Rams have built an extremely dangerous team under rookie contract Jared Goff.

The Jets are in a very similar situation as the Rams and can build around a rookie contract QB. However, the rams are the outlier as I don’t remember a team building through free agency as successful as they did. The NFL is a copycat league and it should be interesting and take a play out of the rams playbook. That means taking in “problem players” too (Kareem Hunt? Fowler).

Every team uses free agency/Trades, even the Pats. Trent Brown/Stephon Gilmore/ Jason Mccourty/Van Noy are all players brought in via trade/free agency that have helped this team win. 

Plus, is this roster even that impressive if you removed Brady? So yeah, the Pats way works, but I think it works because of Brady not because of any great system of drafting/developing players. 

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Every team uses free agency/Trades, even the Pats. Trent Brown/Stephon Gilmore/ Jason Mccourty/Van Noy are all players brought in via trade/free agency that have helped this team win. 

Plus, is this roster even that impressive if you removed Brady? So yeah, the Pats way works, but I think it works because of Brady not because of any great system of drafting/developing players. 

Put Brady on the Jets this year with dumbass Todd and they  get to the AFCG

[ZachEY]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

also there was this Run Run Pass post on Reddit. This idea that Jeremy Bates never adjusted and ran the team into the ground 1st and 2nd down was not true 

 https://imgur.com/a/vGyIcKb#BE2Ncjl

basically the team told everyone the coaches were the problem but they underfunded the roster.

Parry Nickerson? The, GREAT, Parry Nickerson Aka Poor man's Buster Skrine? he's a developmental slot nickel cb. 

The team wasn't ruined by Bowles. It was ruined because they were going to fire Bowles and he was going to take all the blame anyway, so why even try? 

Just to make this visible - The Jets were 29th in the league in Run, Run, Pass, by percentage.

[JetFaninMI]

You build through the draft and supplement the roster through FA. With a few exceptions great players rarely reach FA. They are either tagged or signed long term. Relying solely on FA to build a roster seldom works out well and in the Jets case never has. 

The problem lie's in Macc's piss poor draft performance. IMHO Macc should have been let go with Bowles or given a different job in the organization. His strength IMO is contract language. Let him stick to that and they should have brought in a player personnel guy to evaluate talent in the draft process. This a major flaw in this organization and until changed or Macc somehow miraculously improves as a talent evaluator things are not going to change anytime soon.

[Philc1]

34 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

You build through the draft and supplement the roster through FA. With a few exceptions great players rarely reach FA. They are either tagged or signed long term. Relying solely on FA to build a roster seldom works out well and in the Jets case never has. 

The problem lie's in Macc's piss poor draft performance. IMHO Macc should have been let go with Bowles or given a different job in the organization. His strength IMO is contract language. Let him stick to that and they should have brought in a player personnel guy to evaluate talent in the draft process. This a major flaw in this organization and until changed or Macc somehow miraculously improves as a talent evaluator things are not going to change anytime soon.

Problem is 90% of Mac’s draft picks have ranged from bad to horrible

 

That said he did get Sam and Herndon last year and can have another successful draft this year

 

[kdels62]

The Eagles also built their core through free agency. In fact the Eagles and Rams O-lines were set as FA pick ups. There is more probability of building through free agency than ever before but that doesn’t mean you ignore the draft. 

Also all it takes is 1 offseason to fix a team once you have a QB. 

[Lith]

There is more than one way to build a team, but building through the draft is the best way to sustain success.  Teams that draft well generally have a pipeline of young playesr being developed to take over for veterans so there is a less of a need to sepnd big in FA.  They use FA to fill one or two holes, but sustained success is built through the draft.

Unfortunatley we have not drafted well over most of the last decade and 6 years of Maccidzik have left a barren roster with some nice players, but a lack of explosive playmaking talent on both sides of the ball, and too many hioles to expect to fill them through the draft.  If we spend wisely, and hit on our FA acquisitions this season, and Darnold makes a leap in year 2, then maybe we can win 9 or 10 games and contend for a playoff spot.  But if we want to be winning 10-12 games a year and be a consistent playoff team over the next decade, we need a better hit percentage over the next few drafts.

FA can set us up for success for a couple of seasons.  The draft is what can set us up for long term success.  No pressure, Macc, You got us the QB, now just spend wisely and hit on a high percentage of draft picks and we will be fine.

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Put Brady on the Jets this year with dumbass Todd and they  get to the AFCG

No FREAKING WAY! Sam ran for his life! Brady would have been killed! We played the Bears with no WRS & a rookie TE!

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Todd Bowles was terrible at development he's a former DB coach who turned Jamal Adams into a first team All Pro 

also there was this Run Run Pass post on Reddit. This idea that Jeremy Bates never adjusted and ran the team into the ground 1st and 2nd down was not true 

https://imgur.com/a/vGyIcKb#BE2Ncjl

basically the team told everyone the coaches were the problem but they underfunded the roster.

Parry Nickerson? The, GREAT, Parry Nickerson Aka Poor man's Buster Skrine? he's a developmental slot nickel cb. 

The team wasn't ruined by Bowles. It was ruined because they were going to fire Bowles and he was going to take all the blame anyway, so why even try? 

Totally disagree! Jamal Adams was the 6th pick in the draft for a reason. Belichicks staff develops players all the time! Malcom Butler...RING A BELL? Took him until his 3rd year to be a starter under Belichick! Had all kinds of issues early with holding & PI, got benched, developed WON A FREAKING SUPER BOWL on a play that was PRACTICED OVER & OVER!

Coaching matters. Todd Bowles has NO CLUE how to develop a player. 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Totally disagree! Jamal Adams was the 6th pick in the draft for a reason. Belichicks staff develops players all the time! Malcom Butler...RING A BELL? Took him until his 3rd year to be a starter under Belichick! Had all kinds of issues early with holding & PI, got benched, developed WON A FREAKING SUPER BOWL on a play that was PRACTICED OVER & OVER!

Coaching matters. Todd Bowles has NO CLUE how to develop a player. 

Todd Bowles was a Db coach under Bill Parcells and held the same position under Andy Reid 

he might have been outmatched as a HC but he developed Jamal Adams and everyone in the league knows it 

I don't want to go through all the picks in history but picking top-6 not sure things. DBrick and Drob both went 4, Sanchez went 5 and Leonard Williams and Gholston went 6. It's spotty. 

[Freemanm]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Which explains why Devin Smith, Lorenzo Maudlin, Bryce Petty, Jarvis Harrison, Christian Hackenberg, Juston Burris, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen, and Dylan Donahue have all gone on, after being crippled by the awful coaching of Todd Bowles, to great success in the league once they've gotten opportunities with good coaches.

That was all Jamal Adams, coaching had nothing to do with his success.  Coaching is only a factor for the really good players we have who play bad.

I don't think Juston Burris or Donahue were ever given fair shots. I think Burris could have could have replaced the waste that is Buster Skrine as the slot corner, and Donahue a situational pass rusher. Thanks to atrocious coaching, however, they never got there. Criminal charges should be pressed against Bowls for keeping Kacy Rodgers as DC for so long. 

[HelenOfTroy]

21 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

The rams turned their team around very quickly employing this strategy and think it’d be beneficial for the jets too. Go after the talented guys in free agent regardless if they’re deemed “locker room cancers” or whatever. Talent is the most important factor.

To use the Rams as an example, you would require the same franchise culture; from the owners, FO, scouts and young innovative coach that knew how to maximize the talent he already had on the team.

They were smart enough to grab two free agents from the Bills, not just because they saw value in Woody and Nickell ?, but because they were local heroes, to excite the fan base.  Very savvy.

Sure you have that?

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

I don't think Juston Burris or Donahue were ever given fair shots. I think Burris could have could have replaced the waste that is Buster Skrine as the slot corner, and Donahue a situational pass rusher. Thanks to atrocious coaching, however, they never got there. Criminal charges should be pressed against Bowls for keeping Kacy Rodgers as DC for so long. 

Again, if you want to make this argument, then why haven't these players caught on elsewhere?  With Donahue, it's probably because he's a crap athlete with T-Rex arms.  With Burris, he was wavied by the Jets, and no other team signed him to an active roster, so he made it to the practice squad.  Then, the Browns took him late in the season only after losing a DB to IR.

Also, you've pointed to 2 of 9.  So, perhaps it's not just about coaching?

[JetFaninMI]

56 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Problem is 90% of Mac’s draft picks have ranged from bad to horrible

 

That said he did get Sam and Herndon last year and can have another successful draft this year

 

I'm not as confident as you are as long as Macc is doing the drafting.

[FidelioJet]

11 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

I’ll make this easy...

LT, Trent Brown 

C, Matt Paradis

DE, Dee Ford

Draft, Josh Allen

 

...done  

How do we score points? 

We don't have a single player on offense that a DC has to worry about or game plan around.

You don't sign Ford and draft Allen - one of the two - maybe (I wouldn't do either) The defense has had enough resources and is capable.  

Offenses need playmakers. 

[varjet]

Burris was clearly an example of a college CB who should have been converted to an NFL safety.  He could have been better there.   Or at least play him at Cover 2 CB

That was not going to happen on the Jets though.  Given Bowles' system, how do you draft a Burris to play CB?