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32 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Start wrapping. Quinnen Williams, Jeffrey Simmons or even Ed Oliver could be impact players. I know people hate Rashaan Gary for whatever reason but he also has that kind of upside. But they are picking 3 not 7 so they can take who they want. and still a decent chance Bosa or Allen are there 

I know that we shouldn't be drafting to placate fans, but, come on.  How does this team sell any of those guys when we've invested so much in the position with so little return?  Then again, we just hired the guy fired by the Dolphins with the 31st ranked offense by yards and the 26th ranked by points and are billing him as an offensive innovator, soooooo

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3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I know that we shouldn't be drafting to placate fans, but, come on.  How does this team sell any of those guys when we've invested so much in the position with so little return?  Then again, we just hired the guy fired by the Dolphins with the 31st ranked offense by yards and the 26th ranked by points and are billing him as an offensive innovator, soooooo

We are moving to the 4-3 and 2 of them belong on the field at the same time? 

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22 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The post I quoted (shown below) had us trading from 3 to 7 to early teens to 20th.  Not only is that wildly unlikely, it is also, literally,  trading down to trade down.  Why not just go from 3 to 20?  Can't work a good enough deal?  Top C at 20?  You are advocating pure need based drafting.  With yoru philosophy, trading up for Darnold would seem to be a mistake. 

It isnt literally trading down to trade down. It's trading down in oder to get to a position to where I feel I can draft some particular players in a particular range that I would be comfortable with. And there are a few Olineman, specifically a Center that I would be comfortable drafting at 20 for example. 

"Why not just go from 3-20"? Does it matter how I get there for as long as I am comfortable how I got there? There's no real relevance to this question. 

With my phlosophy trading up for Darnold wouldnt have been a mistake, however, that's surely not what the heck Macc did. You know how I know? Because only two folks in the world thought that Baker Mayfield was worthy of the top pick in the draft, that was Me and John Dorsey. The rest of the pundits and football fans all viewed Darnold as a more legit potential. Macc trading up from 6 to 3 had nothing to do with trading up to get Darnold. I actually believe that Macc traded up to get Mayfield because he didnt believe that the Browns would actually pass on Darnold, and surely if they did, no way would the Giants pass on Darnold. 

What would have been hilarious is watching the Browns take Mayfield and the Giants taking Sam (which many felt they should have done) and watching Macc sit at #3 looking like an ass because he made a lukewarm trade. He probably would have drafted Rosen. So far he doesnt look so good. But that's not surprising from a guy who'd rather take the safe road. The same GM that values a Safety over a Heisman QB from Clemson and a Big 12 QB who will probably be MVP of the league. 

Macc got lucky with that Darnold pick. Folks paying attention knows it. The moment the Browns drafted Mayfield Macc must have thought that his GM career with the Jets was over because there was no way that the Giants was going to pass on Darnold...and they did. Macc didnt trade up for Darnold, lets be real about that one. 

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8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I know that we shouldn't be drafting to placate fans, but, come on.  How does this team sell any of those guys when we've invested so much in the position with so little return?   

 

agree. the board is what it is tho. 

the sell job will be something along the lines of Aaron Donald leads the league in sacks, blah blah blah interior pressure gets to 3 step drops quicker blah blah blah, less doubles for Leonard Williams and hey we signed Dee Ford so the edge is taken care of blah blah blah Jordan Jenkins is awesome blah blah blah.

in fairness, there is a case to be made, look at the 2018 regular season sack leader list, alot more DTs "Interior DE" on that list than there used to be.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=SACKS&conference=null&season=2018&seasonType=REG

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

What are you talking about? 

Parcells traded the #1 overall (Orlando Pace), for the #6 overall, a 3rd and a 4th.

#6 was Walter Jones, (HOF Left Tackle for the Seahawks).    He traded from 6 to 8 for another late rounder, then drafted James Farrior, played him out of position.  Farrior went to the Steelers and became a really good player.

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14 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I know that we shouldn't be drafting to placate fans, but, come on.  How does this team sell any of those guys when we've invested so much in the position with so little return?  Then again, we just hired the guy fired by the Dolphins with the 31st ranked offense by yards and the 26th ranked by points and are billing him as an offensive innovator, soooooo

Its not just fans. The defense has gotten the lions share of 1st rd picks in recent memory. We have a potential FQB that needs to be supported. The top of the draft is all defense and we have no second rounder, trade back even if we sacrifice value on the chart.

My fear is that they sign bell and use that as the rational to go BPA and DL @1.3

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14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

agree. the board is what it is tho. 

the sell job will be something along the lines of Aaron Donald leads the league in sacks, blah blah blah interior pressure gets to 3 step drops quicker blah blah blah, less doubles for Leonard Williams and hey we signed Dee Ford so the edge is taken care of blah blah blah Jordan Jenkins is awesome blah blah blah.

in fairness, there is a case to be made, look at the 2018 regular season sack leader list, alot more DTs "Interior DE" on that list than there used to be.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=SACKS&conference=null&season=2018&seasonType=REG

Dee Ford - now there’s a tough sell.

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4 minutes ago, nico002 said:

There is no Orlando Pace in this draft

Even if there were, Mac doesn't draft OL.  And if he did, he would draft Tony Mandarich.  

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6 minutes ago, CTM said:

Its not just fans. The defense has gotten the lions share of 1st rd picks in recent memory. We have a potential FQB that needs to be supported. The top of the draft is all defense and we have no second rounder, trade back even if we sacrifice value on the chart.

My fear is that they sign bell and use that as the rational to go BPA and DL @1.3

Bell will be such a bad signing and it’s wild that not everyone sees this.

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8 minutes ago, CTM said:

Its not just fans. The defense has gotten the lions share of 1st rd picks in recent memory. We have a potential FQB that needs to be supported. The top of the draft is all defense and we have no second rounder, trade back even if we sacrifice value on the chart.

My fear is that they sign bell and use that as the rational to go BPA and DL @1.3

I can see that happening. 

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2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Who are the Blue Chip talents of this draft though?

Bosa will likely be gone, and I can't wrap my head around an interior defensive lineman.

The sixteen highest-paid non-quarterbacks by annual value are an even mix of DE/DT/WR. The market for LT and CB tops out a notch below that even though those are considered premium positions while DT is not. Of course the issue is that pass rush is mandatory and it’s harder to project on the inside than it is on the edge.

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4 hours ago, Dcat said:

Even if there were, Mac doesn't draft OL.  And if he did, he would draft Tony Mandarich.  

there was a story in 2016 Stephan Ross the Dolphins owner wanted them to sign guards and Adam Gase had to be removed from the mans office cause he was shouting down his owner, saying offensive line didn't matter

https://www.thesportster.com/news/adam-gases-final-weeks-with-dolphins-was-full-of-massive-arguments-with-owner-stephan-ross/

Gase probably won't prioritize the OL. Mac will try to find maybe a center in rd 3 if we are lucky but most likely outcome they see eye to eye on this issue (and many others) 

 

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10 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

The Jets need offensive lineman and really good offensive lineman almost never hit FA. Applying a sizeable portion of your cap space to the offense doesnt mean that you provided adequate talent depending on where you spent that money. 

The Jets need to address the offense because they just drafted a franchise QB. 

Agree the Jets need to address the offense because they just drafted a franchise QB.. but they also need to draft offense because they have neglected it for the last 10 years.

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16 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Of course. The draft is never weak, simply different. Folks believe that it's weak because it's not a booming QB draft class. That doesnt mean that a teams looking for other positions that are drafting further down in the draft wouldnt mind negotiating to move up. You probably wouldnt be able to bend a team over a barrel for a DE or DT as you could if they were moving up for a QB. 

There are deals to be made if you really want to. 

The draft is weak in multiple spots including OL which is what a lot are hoping improves for us. There are no legit QB, RB, WR, or TE that are legit top 10 picks. If someone feels they want to draft need in the top 10 and trade up for it, sure, there are mistakes made every draft but the one spot this draft is strong, DL there seems to be a lot of prospects. That should make it difficult  to find a trading partner

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If I'm running the Jets I'm making plays for impact players. I call Tampa and offer a package involving #3 Leonard and maybe something else for Mike Evans or exhaust all options to get Evans (Unlikely but worth a try) Or I call Arizona and try to offer a similar package to get to #1 and snag Bosa. Very least I call and try and get AJ Greene from the Bengals but don't overpay seems like they may be heading for a rebuild. Apart from Bell any real offensive weapons will have to be had through trades for the most part. Adding Bell,Paradis and an impact WR via trade are 3 ways to really improve the talent on offense. 

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16 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

See @More Cowbell? On one end you questioned if it's even possible to trade down in a draft that is so week, But then Bitonti comes and compares Parcells trade downs passing on a bunch of OT's, something would be pretty ridiculous to do in this draft since we need OT's. Now I atleast know what @#27TheDominator was referring to as well. 

The bottom line is this. If there is an OT to take at 3 then you do it. You trade down if you're talking defense. All that bluechip talk is for the birds if you're talking about anything that isnt about helping Sam Darnold on the offensive side of the ball. 

There is no way that we pick a defensive player in the 1st and then have to wait until the 3rd round before we decided to try and compliment this QB. You trade down if you can, unless the next Orlando Pace or Walter Jones are there, then you take them at #3. 

 

If Orlando Pace, Shawn Springs, Peter Boulware, Walter Jones, Tony Gonzalez,  Warrick Dunn, Tiki Barber, Corey Dillon, Ronde Barber were in this draft, O would agree we can trade down that draft was loaded with pro bowlers and HOF players. Hell, Jason Taylor went in round 2. This draft isn't  that.

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3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

The draft is weak in multiple spots including OL which is what a lot are hoping improves for us. There are no legit QB, RB, WR, or TE that are legit top 10 picks. If someone feels they want to draft need in the top 10 and trade up for it, sure, there are mistakes made every draft but the one spot this draft is strong, DL there seems to be a lot of prospects. That should make it difficult  to find a trading partner

This is ridiculous. Why? Because someone or some position is worth the top 10 picks.

Thats doesnt make the draft weak, but different. Also, no one knows who's legit top 10 worthy, because 3 years from now there will be some 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th round pick that will show that they were worthy to be a top caliber pick. That happens every year, especially during the years that is claimed to be weak. 

 

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3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

If Orlando Pace, Shawn Springs, Peter Boulware, Walter Jones, Tony Gonzalez,  Warrick Dunn, Tiki Barber, Corey Dillon, Ronde Barber were in this draft, O would agree we can trade down that draft was loaded with pro bowlers and HOF players. Hell, Jason Taylor went in round 2. This draft isn't  that.

You don't know what this draft is. You only know projections and what other people have said. 

Parcells didnt even know...right? 

Also, many of those names you mentioned were not only available when the Jets picked in the 1st round, but were also still available when the Jets picked in the 2nd round. 

That literally proves that trading down wasn't the problem, but properly evaluating talent. 

 

After the Jets traded down and picked 8th in the draft, they could have also picked Tony Gonzalez or Tarik Glenn. 

When the Jets picked with the 1st pick in the 2nd round they could have also picked, Tiki Barber, Cory Dillion, Sam Madison, Marcellus Wiley and Darren Sharper. 

When the Jets picked in the 3rd round they could have also drafted Mike Vrabel. 

The Jets picked the wrong players, not because of some trade down, but the lack of picking the proper players. It wasn't like all of the talent was gone because the Jets drafted down pass all of the talent.

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I Franchise PK Jason Meyers and trade him to the Bears for a 3rd round pick. 

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18 hours ago, jack48 said:

I sold them, and I got a damn good price!

cool !  😎.. hey ! !... is the new owner gonna move the team back to new york ? 

nfl_g_jetsfans_576.jpg  

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1 hour ago, kelly said:

cool !  😎.. hey ! !... is the new owner gonna move the team back to new york ? 

nfl_g_jetsfans_576.jpg  

they did not move back to work the last time because they did not want to feel compelled to win.

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23 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

This is ridiculous. Why? Because someone or some position is worth the top 10 picks.

Thats doesnt make the draft weak, but different. Also, no one knows who's legit top 10 worthy, because 3 years from now there will be some 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th round pick that will show that they were worthy to be a top caliber pick. That happens every year, especially during the years that is claimed to be weak. 

 

You're not thinking about this from a value stand point. If you're  saying that someone is worth a top 10 pick because there has to be players picked in the top 10, that is obvious  but it is my belief from what I have read the #5 and the # 15 picks talent wise,  there isn't a large difference. From a value stand point you would be better off standing pat. 

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21 hours ago, jack48 said:

they did not move back to work the last time because they did not want to feel compelled to win.

OrderlyCapitalBellfrog-max-1mb.gif

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23 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

You don't know what this draft is. You only know projections and what other people have said. 

Parcells didnt even know...right? 

Also, many of those names you mentioned were not only available when the Jets picked in the 1st round, but were also still available when the Jets picked in the 2nd round. 

That literally proves that trading down wasn't the problem, but properly evaluating talent. 

 

After the Jets traded down and picked 8th in the draft, they could have also picked Tony Gonzalez or Tarik Glenn. 

When the Jets picked with the 1st pick in the 2nd round they could have also picked, Tiki Barber, Cory Dillion, Sam Madison, Marcellus Wiley and Darren Sharper. 

When the Jets picked in the 3rd round they could have also drafted Mike Vrabel. 

The Jets picked the wrong players, not because of some trade down, but the lack of picking the proper players. It wasn't like all of the talent was gone because the Jets drafted down pass all of the talent.

Thank you for proving my point for me. That is what I have been saying. The only guy that was not really talked about in that draft that you mentioned. Was Vrabel. I was all over the Jets taking Sharper in the second or third that year. I also wanted Dillion but we had Murell who was showing potential. 

Everyone knew the first round of that draft was loaded at multiple  positions. Thos one is loaded with DL. That is it. 

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4 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

You're not thinking about this from a value stand point. If you're  saying that someone is worth a top 10 pick because there has to be players picked in the top 10, that is obvious  but it is my belief from what I have read the #5 and the # 15 picks talent wise,  there isn't a large difference. From a value stand point you would be better off standing pat. 

To each his own

Look. We're not even beyond the superbowl, there's no reason to debate this as if we fired Macc and hired a competent GM. 

Macc hasnt gotten it right anyway, so maybe that would be a better discussion to have. 

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