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Ja'Wuan James: Dolphins Never Had an Offensive Identity

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1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I was in favor of firing Bowles but to trash him for the Jets failures when his QBs were Fitzpatrick, McCown, and a rookie is ridiculous. 

See how insane this sounds? Hope this helps. 

Hmmmmm but I don’t think Bowles was fired for poor offense performance by the Jets QBs but rather he was let go because of an unprepared defense, poor in game decision making, in general horrible staff, loyalty to a fault to Rogers and for his act like he was the smartest guy in the room act. Which wore thin because he was regularly out coached.  

So if Bowels tenure was being evaluated solely on the QB situation he would still be here.  

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6 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Hmmmmm but I don’t think Bowles was fired for poor offense performance by the Jets QBs but rather he was let go because of an unprepared defense, poor in game decision making, in general horrible staff, loyalty to a fault to Rogers and for his act like he was the smartest guy in the room act. Which wore thin because he was regularly out coached.  

So if Bowels tenure was being evaluated solely on the QB situation he would still be here.  

Can’t a lot of those concerns about Bowles be translated to the Gase led Dolphins? I’m asking because it seems he left the Dolphins in a very toxic state. 

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2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I was in favor of firing Bowles but to trash him for the Jets failures when his QBs were Fitzpatrick, McCown, and a rookie is ridiculous. 

See how insane this sounds? Hope this helps. 

Bowles has nothing to do with the offense, remember?  Fitzpatrick with Marshall, Decker, etc were much better than Osweiler etc.  

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Wasn't Jawuan James on the short-list of OL that we wanted to potentially sign as a FA.  I guess he does not want to come here.  

There are night clubs literally open 24/7 in Miami.  It is a crazy place.  

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1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

And my point still stands. Todd Bowles did more on offense with less talent than Gase did in Miami. If you had to choose which groups of RBs and WRs you’d choose from the Jets or the Dolphins, I think that’s a pretty easy choice. Also, Gase traded away his best offensive weapon for peanuts because of a personality conflict. So, why is he getting a pass?

Todd Bowles, again, did what with the offense?  

Gase traded Ajayi.  What has he done away from Gase?  And here's a locker room cancer. Landry was left to go because he wanted 17 Mil per.  Has he, as the 3rd WR in Cleveland down that he deserves it? 

And all this aside, Gase and his lack of coaching ability beat Bowles and his offense 4 of the last 5 and has a better record than is over his 3 seasons, with a playoff game and contention late with Moore & Osweiler 

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3 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

Hard to have an offensive identity when your franchise QB is stuck in an injury Bermuda triangle during the heart of the season.  I just don't think these problems are as likely with Darnold.

Yeah, what are the odds of Darnold ever missing 3-4 weeks midseason with something like, lets say... a foot injury? 

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I love how all of a sudden, the only reason the offensive-minded QB whisperer Adam Gase will do well here is because of Darnold. 

No sh*t sherlock.  That doesn't make Gase a good HC or a good hire. 

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3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I simply do not buy the whole 'oh he only had tannehill, cutler, oswiler' bit.   If you are a great offensive coach you get those guys to over produce.

Jets with a 20 year old rookie and a past it jag mccown with no oline, poor wrs and lousy backs were better than miami last year.

 

 

:good_one:

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38 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Todd Bowles, again, did what with the offense?  

Gase traded Ajayi.  What has he done away from Gase?  And here's a locker room cancer. Landry was left to go because he wanted 17 Mil per.  Has he, as the 3rd WR in Cleveland down that he deserves it? 

And all this aside, Gase and his lack of coaching ability beat Bowles and his offense 4 of the last 5 and has a better record than is over his 3 seasons, with a playoff game and contention late with Moore & Osweiler 

Jay Ajayi and Jarvis Landry would be the best players by on the Jets, hands down. Landry averages 100 catches and 1000 yards a year. When’s the last time a Jet did that?

My point isn’t that Bowles is better, it’s that Gase isn’t that much of an upgrade. And that he seems like a toxic personality that will wear thin when he doesn’t win in NY either. 

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1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Jay Ajayi and Jarvis Landry would be the best players by on the Jets, hands down. Landry averages 100 catches and 1000 yards a year. When’s the last time a Jet did that?

My point isn’t that Bowles is better, it’s that Gase isn’t that much of an upgrade. And that he seems like a toxic personality that will wear thin when he doesn’t win in NY either. 

So would you like to give us the list of coaches that would be good here if they don't win? 

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John Morton in 2017, before injuries, probably did more with less than Bates or Gase did with their respective talent bases.  

The fact that Bowles fired Morton is one of the reasons why Bowles was fired.  

Gase was hired because he coached Peyton Manning, beat the Jets and Patriots a few times, is no nonsense and was willing to work with Gregg Williams, another no nonsense coach.  

Chris was basically looking for coaches that will run a hard-nosed shop.  

Will it last more than 3 years?  I don't think so, but there should be some fun in the interim.  

 

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19 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

So would you like to give us the list of coaches that would be good here if they don't win? 

Huh? You want me to list potential coach replacements two years from now?

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20 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Jay Ajayi and Jarvis Landry would be the best players by on the Jets, hands down. Landry averages 100 catches and 1000 yards a year. When’s the last time a Jet did that?

My point isn’t that Bowles is better, it’s that Gase isn’t that much of an upgrade. And that he seems like a toxic personality that will wear thin when he doesn’t win in NY either. 

Ajayi and Landry would not be the best players on the Jets with Osweiler at QB.  

Landry was a dink and dunk slot receiver who you forget did nothing with Baker in Cleveland and became they 3rd WR.  Ajayi had one 1000 yard season 

Gase is toxic?  Why because the two players he let walk or traded bitched and moaned?  Happens all the time when players leave.  Just like players bitch and moan, blaming the coach who left was to blame for their mediocre play.

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1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Huh? You want me to list potential coach replacements two years from now?

You can hope, aint happening

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4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

That sounds about right though.  He was not a good coach in Miami.

They were almost batting .500 during his tenure. Their QB is always injured, and Miami has been dysfunctional for a while. They may not have been world beaters, but the results aren't too bad for a seemingly poor roster. If Todd* had Gase's record he might still be the NJJ head coach.

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

they were the 30th ranked offense in the NFL

pretty sure even the Jets Jeremy Bates messin with sasquatch offense was ranked higher  

are we supposed to pretend the Dolphins were great? Cause Gase is the coach? 

Sure, but when it came down to wins and losses Bates was 0-2 (scored18 points both games combined) vs Gase this season, so yeah, rankings... No, we shouldn't pretend he is a great coach. My preference is waiting and seeing what he does here.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I love how all of a sudden, the only reason the offensive-minded QB whisperer Adam Gase will do well here is because of Darnold. 

No sh*t sherlock.  That doesn't make Gase a good HC or a good hire. 

Or a bad one before proving a thing one way or another

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15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Ajayi and Landry would not be the best players on the Jets with Osweiler at QB.  

Landry was a dink and dunk slot receiver who you forget did nothing with Baker in Cleveland and became they 3rd WR.  Ajayi had one 1000 yard season 

Gase is toxic?  Why because the two players he let walk or traded bitched and moaned?  Happens all the time when players leave.  Just like players bitch and moan, blaming the coach who left was to blame for their mediocre play.

Ajayi and Gase were like oil and water just did not mix. Ajayi was odd man out to set an example. Landry was a cap issue thanks to Tanny’s contract moves  Remember how the Jets talent pool dwindled with the Jets under his management, same in Miami. Not defending Gase but you have to look at the whole picture. Maybe Gase could have handled Ajayi better but he wasn’t the first player shipped out by a coach when issues arose and he won’t be the last. Just saying!!

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4 hours ago, KRL said:

I wasn't in favor of hiring Gase, but to trash him for MIA offense when his QB's were
Tannehill, Moore, Cutler and Osweiler is ridiculous.  A true measure of his ability to
create an offense will be seen when he has Darnold behind center

Not to mention that in addition to losing Tannehill for a god part of the past two seasons, the team traded the two best offensive players in Ajayi and Landry.

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1 hour ago, bealeb319 said:

How is 33 ranking at position above average? There are 32 teams so that means he would be bottom of the barrel starter or good depth?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

He is ranked #33 against all the other starting  OTs.   63 others beside him in the league.

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2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Can’t a lot of those concerns about Bowles be translated to the Gase led Dolphins? I’m asking because it seems he left the Dolphins in a very toxic state. 

The Dolphins this season had less talent than we did. Lost 4 players on their o-line during the season. Had generally worse QB play than us. They lost 2 key young WRs. They drafted a safety. Somehow they won 3 more games than us.

They won because Gase maximized their opportunities. They turned the ball over less and committed less penalties. The offense played within the confines of their talent deficiency and were opportunistic. 

Ironically, I think it’s more reasonable to question Gase’s ability to develop a QB than it is to question him as a game manager/ in-game strategist.

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13 minutes ago, Bocajetfan said:

Ajayi and Gase were like oil and water just did not mix. Ajayi was odd man out to set an example. Landry was a cap issue thanks to Tanny’s contract moves  Remember how the Jets talent pool dwindled with the Jets under his management, same in Miami. Not defending Gase but you have to look at the whole picture. Maybe Gase could have handled Ajayi better but he wasn’t the first player shipped out by a coach when issues arose and he won’t be the last. Just saying!!

I had read the same thing.  Ajayi was never happy, butted heads with Gase.  He had one good year.  Never bought in and was the bad egg in the locker.  His last season, the first 7 games he had droppd off, 20 yards per game and only 3.4 per carry.  Bad production and an attitude, so he was sent packing.  Happens.  

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50 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

The Dolphins this season had less talent than we did. Lost 4 players on their o-line during the season. Had generally worse QB play than us. They lost 2 key young WRs. They drafted a safety. Somehow they won 3 more games than us.

They won because Gase maximized their opportunities. They turned the ball over less and committed less penalties. The offense played within the confines of their talent deficiency and were opportunistic. 

Ironically, I think it’s more reasonable to question Gase’s ability to develop a QB than it is to question him as a game manager/ in-game strategist.

They didn't win - they were a very bad football team this year and had a losing record for his 3 years there.

But I think more importantly than the record was the performance of his offense - because that's really what he's going to be doing for us.

The most worrisome part, for me, is the offense got progressively worse each year he coached.  Really not a good sign.

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6 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Gase actually beat the Patriots twice in the last couple of seasons. How did the Jets do?

If he's given a really good team he should do fine. If he's not, he won't. Just like most coaches on most teams.

Groundbreaking stuff right there, huh?

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5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You either dontn't watch football or don't understand it if you're trying to make the point that W/Ls aren't effected by a roster

WTF? This, after years of you arguing with me about the competence of the man responsible for building the Jets' rosters.

You've been ****ing with me this whole time?

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3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

My point here is Darnold> any QB Gas had in Miami

Darnold> with an offensively minded head coach

We have Gase here. And there is nothing that I or anyone can do about that. Now is the time to see what he can do

Was rookie Darnold > any QB Gase had in Miami? No, and I think this is more what EY was alluding to. 

It was past time for his predecessor to go, and I get the desire to feel they made the right decision here, but you have to admit the level of excuse-making for Gase has reached crazy levels already, and he hasn't even held a single practice yet. 

I'm happy he's an offense-minded HC. It's a nice change. Even still I'm also lol at all those suddenly excited over the hire because anything the Jets decide to do is by definition considered the smart thing. We were supposedly going to make this great big splash of a HC hire, and we ended up with the dooshy guy the Dolphins fired faster than we fired Bowles, because this was the one who agreed to hire the DC the GM had pre-selected. 

If we win a SB, no one will care if the HC's name is Gase or McCarthy or Harbaugh or Bowles. They could help him out by giving him better teams than the Jets' HCs have had for most of the past several years.

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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

The Dolphins this season had less talent than we did. Lost 4 players on their o-line during the season. Had generally worse QB play than us. They lost 2 key young WRs. They drafted a safety. Somehow they won 3 more games than us.

They won because Gase maximized their opportunities. They turned the ball over less and committed less penalties. The offense played within the confines of their talent deficiency and were opportunistic. 

Ironically, I think it’s more reasonable to question Gase’s ability to develop a QB than it is to question him as a game manager/ in-game strategist.

And the Jets lost 3 players on their OL during the season, with one of them turning a ball snap to his rookie QB into an adventure even though he was on the field.

Injuries or not, the Jets had 3 starting OLmen playing at backup level ourselves, so BFD. Beachum was merely slightly below average, and Winters about average (though his individual play may have been better because Ds focused on even worse players on our line); these 2 uninspiring players were easily the class of the Jets' OL. 

Not to mention the Jets' #1 WR outright missing 1/3 of the season, #2 being noticeably banged up but playing for multiple outings himself, and #3 being a waste of precious bodily fluids even if he was on-paper healthy for 14 games.

Gase would have sucked coaching this offense, too, even if he was allowed to be just the OC and focus all his attention to one side of the ball. 

I'd rather judge him on good teams here than try to sort through which failures are his and which are legit excuses. We've all had enough of that already.

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18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

And the Jets lost 3 players on their OL during the season, with one of them turning a ball snap to his rookie QB into an adventure even though he was on the field.

Injuries or not, the Jets had 3 starting OLmen playing at backup level ourselves, so BFD. Beachum was merely slightly below average, and Winters about average (though his individual play may have been better because Ds focused on even worse players on our line); these 2 uninspiring players were easily the class of the Jets' OL. 

Not to mention the Jets' #1 WR outright missing 1/3 of the season, #2 being noticeably banged up but playing for multiple outings himself, and #3 being a waste of precious bodily fluids even if he was on-paper healthy for 14 games.

Gase would have sucked coaching this offense, too, even if he was allowed to be just the OC and focus all his attention to one side of the ball. 

I'd rather judge him on good teams here than try to sort through which failures are his and which are legit excuses. We've all had enough of that already.

It’s really no fun to not try and analyze what happened especially since we’re still 2 months from free agency. I appreciate that Gase said he sacrificed stats for chances to win games this season. The stats and the results bear that out. The Dolphins were worse than us in every way but they managed to win more. If Gase can figure out how to get wins and mediocrity out of crap then I’m hopeful he can get more out of a legitimate QB prospect and $100 million in cap space. 

It never translates so easily but 7-9 with that Dolphins team means we should expect  playoff contention with our team which should be more talented than any Gase has previously had. 

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Ajayi and Landry would not be the best players on the Jets with Osweiler at QB.  

Landry was a dink and dunk slot receiver who you forget did nothing with Baker in Cleveland and became they 3rd WR.  Ajayi had one 1000 yard season 

Gase is toxic?  Why because the two players he let walk or traded bitched and moaned?  Happens all the time when players leave.  Just like players bitch and moan, blaming the coach who left was to blame for their mediocre play.

It’s nkt just two players. Numerous Dolphins said they wanted out if Gase stayed. Landry “did nothing” with Baker. Wut? Third receiver? You mean the guy who had the most catches and yards was the third receiver? Really? He had 30 more catches than any Jets player. Stop with this Landry isn’t good stuff. That’s just false. 

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You can hope, aint happening

Macc has two more years on his deal. That’s all he’ll get. And the new GM won’t keep Gase. We’ve all seen this before. 

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

The Dolphins this season had less talent than we did. Lost 4 players on their o-line during the season. Had generally worse QB play than us. They lost 2 key young WRs. They drafted a safety. Somehow they won 3 more games than us.

They won because Gase maximized their opportunities. They turned the ball over less and committed less penalties. The offense played within the confines of their talent deficiency and were opportunistic. 

Ironically, I think it’s more reasonable to question Gase’s ability to develop a QB than it is to question him as a game manager/ in-game strategist.

All those bad things happened and the Dolphins were still like, “Thank you, next.”

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

They didn't win - they were a very bad football team this year and had a losing record for his 3 years there.

But I think more importantly than the record was the performance of his offense - because that's really what he's going to be doing for us.

The most worrisome part, for me, is the offense got progressively worse each year he coached.  Really not a good sign.

They were in playoff contention into December. They succumbed to injuries and they’re talent deficiency. 

They were a bad with a bad offense that managed to win more games than us. I think that’s the biggest point in Gase’s favor in terms of his ability as a head coach. It keeps me worried about his ability as a purely offensive coach but I don’t know enough about actual football to tell you why the Dolphins were bad at offense.

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2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

 All those bad things happened and the Dolphins were still like, “Thank you, next.”

Are the Dolphins exceptionally good at decision making? Because your point relies on me believing that and I don’t. 

By every measure the Dolphins should’ve been worse than they were. They were good at winning close game and both their running backs finished over 4 yards a carry while their QBs had positive TD-Int ratios.

I don’t know by which measure we upgraded but we did upgrade when hired Gase.

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1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

Are the Dolphins exceptionally good at decision making? Because your point relies on me believing that and I don’t. 

By every measure the Dolphins should’ve been worse than they were. They were good at winning close game and both their running backs finished over 4 yards a carry while their QBs had positive TD-Int ratios.

I don’t know by which measure we upgraded but we did upgrade when hired Gase.

An upgrade from Todd Bowles is not hard. Good at winning close games? That’s what you’re hanging your hat on? And if he didn’t have any talent on his team, whose fault is that? His. He was choosing the talent. Good thing he won’t have that responsibility here. Now he has.. *checks notes* the leagues worst drafter and bottom five general manager. Cool. Cool. 

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