Was losing BB to the Pats the single worst mistake all-time in NFL history?

[Savage69]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Manning came out the year after Farrior. 

Had Parcells done that I don't  think he would have made it out of MSG alive. 

Manning didn't come out in 1997 because the Tuna wouldn't guarantee he would be the first player picked.. The Tuna traded down he was only going to coach for 3 years and didn't want to deal with a rookie QB..

[Losmeister]

13 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Think about it - if the Pats win on Sunday they win 6 Superbowls, all in the BB/TB era.  That would tie them with the Steelers for most by any franchise ever.  If one HC/QB combo can bring you to a tie at the top of the pack for most SB wins in history then how can this not be the single worst thing to happen to any NFL franchise ever?  Let's not forget that we'd be going for #7 on Sunday to put us atop the mountain by ourselves (as we already had a SB win prior to BB being "HC of the NYJ").

(disclaimer: I'm sticking only to sports here and am excluding "real life" type things like domestic violence issues.)

we didnt kick him out, he split of his own accord and didnt want to be here...  

 

cant be qualifgied as a mistake..  we're sposed to kidnap him?

[jeremy2020]

7 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

The biggest mistake was not drafting Tom Brady

I'd take BB without Brady over Brady without BB.

It wasn't a mistake because the Jets organization could not possibly have given Belichick what he wanted. Even if they gave him every bit of power and control he had/has in New England.

[munchmemory]

Folks forget what an awesome DC he was for us.  We weren't very good.  But every week BB would get that D to outperform and at least keep us in games.  

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

6 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Manning didn't come out in 1997 because the Tuna wouldn't guarantee he would be the first player picked.. The Tuna traded down he was only going to coach for 3 years and didn't want to deal with a rookie QB..

For some reason both Peyton and Archie Manning said that he had no desire  coming to the Jets, and told the Jets not to draft him.  Disliked both of them ever since.  That's the way I remember it.

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Folks forget what an awesome DC he was for us.  We weren't very good.  But every week BB would get that D to outperform and at least keep us in games.  

We don't forget because he wasn't.  The D's under him were ranked 24, 7, 21 in his three years here.

In 1998 we lost 4 games in regular season.  d allowed 36, 24(to bad Ravens O), 30(to bad Rams O) and 24 blowing a big lead vs rookie Peyton and 3-13 colts.  In the AFC championship game they blew a 10 point second half lead.

In 1999 we missed the playoffs by one game, our last loss was to mediocre NYG O that we allowed 41 points to.

Bill Belichick made his defensive reputation coaching the greatest defensive player of all time.  Him being a great D coach is mostly a myth based off the LT days.

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

For some reason both Peyton and Archie Manning said that he had no desire  coming to the Jets, and told the Jets not to draft him.  Disliked both of them ever since.  That's the way I remember it.

That's not what happened.  They wanted BP to assure them he would draft Peyton, BP wanted to win right away and didn't want to start a rookie (things were different in that era) so he wouldn't commit to taking him.  If he did Peyton would have come out and been a Jet.

[nyjunc]

23 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'd take BB without Brady over Brady without BB.

It wasn't a mistake because the Jets organization could not possibly have given Belichick what he wanted. Even if they gave him every bit of power and control he had/has in New England.

BB without Brady has a losing record overall and in 7 seasons had 5 losing seasons with just 1 WC playoff app.

[jetstream23]

16 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Bill Belichick had 1 winning season as a Head Coach in 6 years...

...then came Tom Brady and he hasn't had one losing season in 18 years!

 

 

Corrected it to 6 years.  And the more I think about it the crazier it seems.  BB had just one winning season in 6 years!!!!!  ONE!

[jetstream23]

9 hours ago, rangerous said:

right.  imagine if bellichicken went 7-9 in 2000 and then 7-9 in 2001.  anyone think krafty would've stuck with him?  maybe but it was certainly looking like he going to be just another very good coordinator who coudn't be a successful hc.  if anything the key even was mo lewis knocking bledsoe into the next century.  the patsie revisionist history says that the bellichicken was going to move away from blesoe to brady anyway.  yep, uh-huh.  there's a bridge for sale in ny too. and let's not forget the phony tuck rule too.

the bottom line is bellichicken is only part of the equation to the patsie success.  krafty runs a pretty good organization and they have managed to build a winning culture and then maintain it for nearly 20 years.  of course they have also been caught cheating at least twice and the nfl has never taken away any of their trophies or wins.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

10 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

That's not what happened.  They wanted BP to assure them he would draft Peyton, BP wanted to win right away and didn't want to start a rookie (things were different in that era) so he wouldn't commit to taking him.  If he did Peyton would have come out and been a Jet.

You may be right.  The story is convoluted even after all of these years.  Even Peyton's mother and Archie contradict themselves.  The mother said that Peyton was waiting for a "sign" from the Jets.  Archie told Parcells that Peyton had been talking  "all along" about returning to school.  Parcells said he got the impression that from talking to Archie, Peyton wanted to go back to school. Parcells said he told Archie that he'd done a lot of research into Peyton and that he was very impressed, but because of "tampering" rules, he was unable to communicate interest.  Who knows?  Hate to think I wasted all of those "Malocchio" over the years.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

30 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

We don't forget because he wasn't.  The D's under him were ranked 24, 7, 21 in his three years here.

In 1998 we lost 4 games in regular season.  d allowed 36, 24(to bad Ravens O), 30(to bad Rams O) and 24 blowing a big lead vs rookie Peyton and 3-13 colts.  In the AFC championship game they blew a 10 point second half lead.

In 1999 we missed the playoffs by one game, our last loss was to mediocre NYG O that we allowed 41 points to.

Bill Belichick made his defensive reputation coaching the greatest defensive player of all time.  Him being a great D coach is mostly a myth based off the LT days.

Bellicheat's reputation as a "Defensive Wizard" has not been realized  during the Patriots "hysterical" run.  In fact the defensive has been pretty much pedestrian over the years.  The "bell cow" and primary reason for their success has been the OFFENSE.

[UntouchableCrew]

8 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Manning came out the year after Farrior. 

Had Parcells done that I don't  think he would have made it out of MSG alive. 

True, but the rumor was that Archie called Tuna and asked for his assurances he'd take Peyton #1 and look after him (or something to that effect) and Tuna declined. Peyton subsequently chose to return to Tennessee for his senior year.

[UntouchableCrew]

55 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'd take BB without Brady over Brady without BB.

It wasn't a mistake because the Jets organization could not possibly have given Belichick what he wanted. Even if they gave him every bit of power and control he had/has in New England.

Me too. People crap on Belichick's record without Brady (he was a defensive genius even though his record with the Browns was mediocre) but there's a reason Brady was a 6th round pick,

If the Browns draft Brady he's out of the league in five years and working as a financial advisor in the Bay Area. He needed that setup, that system, those coaches as much as they needed him. Brady wouldn't have been an all time great on just any old team. He didn't have the physical ability to succeed in many offenses.

[nyjunc]

45 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Me too. People crap on Belichick's record without Brady (he was a defensive genius even though his record with the Browns was mediocre) but there's a reason Brady was a 6th round pick,

If the Browns draft Brady he's out of the league in five years and working as a financial advisor in the Bay Area. He needed that setup, that system, those coaches as much as they needed him. Brady wouldn't have been an all time great on just any old team. He didn't have the physical ability to succeed in many offenses.

BB is not a defensive genius, he had the greatest defensive player of all time to build up that reputation.  His D's always come up small in big games.

LT made BB the DC, Brady made BB the HC.

[jeremy2020]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

BB without Brady has a losing record overall and in 7 seasons had 5 losing seasons with just 1 WC playoff app.

...and Brady has zero winning seasons without BB...while BB won with Matt Cassel..do you want to keep playing with silly ridiculous stats? 

[UntouchableCrew]

43 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

BB is not a defensive genius, he had the greatest defensive player of all time to build up that reputation.  His D's always come up small in big games.

LT made BB the DC, Brady made BB the HC.

What are you talking about? Before Polian whined to the league to change defensive contact rules the Pats first 3 Super Bowls were all defense. Seriously, we're giving Brady credit for holding the Greatest Show on Turf and Peyton Manning to a fraction of their regular point totals?

Brady didn't become statistically elite until they changed the rules and he got Randy Moss. For 3 of the Pats 5 titles he was a high end game manager while Belichick, Richard Seymour, Teddy Bruschi and Ty Law did the heavy lifting.

[Nixhead]

I kinda of remember how it went down and Parcells and Belicheck weren’t on the best of terms and Parcels resigned because Leon Hess died and Jets getting new owner and Parcells just said Bill your the new head coach of the Jets by default and 1 day later Belicheck  resigned. I really don’t remember the Jets trying to keep Belicheck and his head coaching record at that point was very pedestrian. Then he goes to New England and he’s not good there either until Mo Lewis knows out Bledsoe and Brady starts winning games. As far as Brady - he was passed over 198 times in the draft. There was not much indication that he was gonna be the goat. sh*t even the Patriots waited till the 6th round to draft him. They simply took a flyer on him. Somehow the perfect storm developed and here we are 18 years later. Nobody could have known. I don’t hold anything against the Jets for any of this. It’s not the Jets fault. It just happened.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

...and Brady has zero winning seasons without BB...while BB won with Matt Cassel..do you want to keep playing with silly ridiculous stats? 

Brady hasn't had a chance to play without BB, BB had coached 7+ seasons without Brady and he was a failure without him.

[nyjunc]

59 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

What are you talking about? Before Polian whined to the league to change defensive contact rules the Pats first 3 Super Bowls were all defense. Seriously, we're giving Brady credit for holding the Greatest Show on Turf and Peyton Manning to a fraction of their regular point totals?

Brady didn't become statistically elite until they changed the rules and he got Randy Moss. For 3 of the Pats 5 titles he was a high end game manager while Belichick, Richard Seymour, Teddy Bruschi and Ty Law did the heavy lifting.

The only postseason where the pats D played mostly well throughout was the first but in that super bowl his D became the first EVER to blow a double digit 4th qtr lead in a super bowl when they blew a 14 pt lead to SL before Brady rescued them from disaster.  

2 years later his D became the second ever to blow a 4tg qre double digit lead in the SB when they blew an 11 pt lead to Carolina.  In that 4th qtr they allowed 19 points but again Brady and the O rescued them.

 

Let us not forget that prior to Brady starting BB and that D were 5-13.  

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, Losmeister said:

we didnt kick him out, he split of his own accord and didnt want to be here...  

 

cant be qualifgied as a mistake..  we're sposed to kidnap him?

If that's what it would've taken then yes. 

In all seriousness though, Woody could've tried to really win him over and say that he was wanted very badly by the organization and to give us a chance.  

[Larz]

If he was a tree, what kind of tree would he be? 

[Thai Jet]

21 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

In jets history, yes 

How was it a mistake ? Beliprick surprised EVERYONE when he bolted to the Pats. I don't think we had ANY control over it. Like if you quit your job Monday morning. Your company has no control over that.

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Remember we took Chad because we had 4 1st Rd picks, if BB stays here we lose at least one of those picks.  Would we still have chosen a QB early?

If BB stays and takes Brady then dynasty, if not he'd have lasted a few years here.

First off, Pioli drafted Brady

 

Second, Vinny Testaverde was Belichick’s guy they were together in Cleveland and no doubt he told Parcells to sign him in ‘98

 

BB would have just stuck with Vinny and Ray Lucas who looked semi competent playing in meaningless games in 1999

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

...and Brady has zero winning seasons without BB...while BB won with Matt Cassel..do you want to keep playing with silly ridiculous stats? 

Kinda hard for Brady to win games without BB when he never had another coach 

[Bruce Harper]

Think about it - if the Pats win on Sunday they win 6 Superbowls, all in the BB/TB era.  That would tie them with the Steelers for most by any franchise ever.  If one HC/QB combo can bring you to a tie at the top of the pack for most SB wins in history then how can this not be the single worst thing to happen to any NFL franchise ever?  Let's not forget that we'd be going for #7 on Sunday to put us atop the mountain by ourselves (as we already had a SB win prior to BB being "HC of the NYJ").
(disclaimer: I'm sticking only to sports here and am excluding "real life" type things like domestic violence issues.)

Mistake? He decided to leave. How is that a mistake?

PS: I’m not one to cry over spilled milk, either.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

BB is not a defensive genius, he had the greatest defensive player of all time to build up that reputation.  His D's always come up small in big games.

LT made BB the DC, Brady made BB the HC.

I actually think BB is a very good defensive play caller but yes LT made his bones in this league

[Philc1]

Just now, Bruce Harper said:

Mistake? He decided to leave. How is that a mistake?

PS: I’m not one to cry over spilled milk, either.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Just everyone loves to pile onto all New York teams right now except the yankees

[Untouchable]

22 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Belichick + Pennington now equals 6 Super Bowls?

I don’t think it’s nuts to think we might’ve had at least one, maybe two with that duo for 10+ years.

[Philc1]

6 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t think it’s nuts to think we might’ve had at least one, maybe two with that duo for 10+ years.

[chirorob]

How about the Giants having Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry on the same staff and letting them both go.

The story is, they didnt want an Italian like Lombardi running the team.

[WickedAwesome]

7 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Me too. People crap on Belichick's record without Brady (he was a defensive genius even though his record with the Browns was mediocre) but there's a reason Brady was a 6th round pick,

If the Browns draft Brady he's out of the league in five years and working as a financial advisor in the Bay Area. He needed that setup, that system, those coaches as much as they needed him. Brady wouldn't have been an all time great on just any old team. He didn't have the physical ability to succeed in many offenses.

Are you one of those football geniuses that thinks “true quarterback talent” is in the legs? How’s that Aaron Rodgers GOAT argument working out? And how incredible is RG3 as the second coming in 2019?

Tom Brady’s pocket awareness is legendary, his accuracy in his prime was laser like, his ability to find the open man and make stars out of nobody’s is greatest in NFL history, and his ability to read defenses is GOAT level according to Super Bowl championships, completion %, 3rd down conversions, and TD/INT ratio.

Your analysis is laughable.

[WickedAwesome]

The dude won a Super Bowl on a game winning drive his very first year as a starting quarterback and you say he would be out of the league in a few years without Belichick because he has no ability 

You got jokes.

Hope you enjoy #6

[WickedAwesome]

Tom Brady is playing in his 9th Super Bowl for his 6th ring. One of his losses was on an undefeated season, and he’ll own every meaningful QB record in the books by retirement.

How long are some of you guys going to keep the “Tom Brady secretly sucks” LARP going? It’s not doing any favors for your perceived football IQ

[WickedAwesome]

Guy gets rid of the football to an open man in like 1.2 seconds and this dude says he wouldn’t have been a pro football player for any team but the Patriots, who apparently operate on some kind of magic (and not masterful quarterback play like my lyin’ eyes tell me), because he has no ability lol

Incase you haven’t watched a single football game in 19 years, the Pats win because Tom blows the doors off defenses, and he does that because he’s nasty as playing football.