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Side Question: How Will History Judge Bill Parcells?


TuscanyTile2

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I could be wrong but I think the only successful season he had without Bill Belichick was with the Cowboys (and I think Sean Payton was on that staff).  Certainly he could pick assistants (Tom Coughlin was also on his staff with the Giants btw) but did he get way too much credit all those years?  Maybe it was mostly Belichick who brought him success.  

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As an all time great coach.

He didn't coach long without belichick and when he did he took over the worst franchise in the sport both on and off the field in NE and led them to the playoffs and then led Dallas to the playoffs with Quincy Carter.

 

In 7 seasons without BB Parcells made the playoffs 3 times with Drew bledsoe, Quincy Carter and Tony Romo.  In 7 seasons without Tom Brady bill belichick made the playoffs one time.

 

Bill Parcells was the better HC, he just never had the greatest QB of all time.

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16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

As an all time great coach.

He didn't coach long without belichick and when he did he took over the worst franchise in the sport both on and off the field in NE and led them to the playoffs and then led Dallas to the playoffs with Quincy Carter.

 

In 7 seasons without BB Parcells made the playoffs 3 times with Drew bledsoe, Quincy Carter and Tony Romo.  In 7 seasons without Tom Brady bill belichick made the playoffs one time.

 

Bill Parcells was the better HC, he just never had the greatest QB of all time.

I had tears in my eyes reading this. Well writ, @nyjunc

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A head coach gets credit for hiring great assistants and vice versa.  BP taught BB a lot.  

BP was an all time great coach, and his tree lived in. He was not perfect, and at the end got too ornery to be effective, but he re-reinvented the game by bringing back Lombardi’s working class East Coast principles to counter Walsh’s West Coast philosophy.  That is what you saw last night too. 

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1 minute ago, varjet said:

A head coach gets credit for hiring great assistants and vice versa.  BP taught BB a lot.  

BP was an all time great coach, and his tree lived in. He was not perfect, and at the end got too ornery to be effective, but he re-reinvented the game by bringing back Lombardi’s working class East Coast principles to counter Walsh’s West Coast philosophy.  That is what you saw last night too. 

BP won super bowls with 2 noon Hof QBs.

He made a third SB with a QB that was in his prime and went 5-13 with Belichick.

He also made the playoffs with Vinny testaverde, winning a rare division title for the Jets and making an AFC championship while with BB Vinny was part of WC team that got crushed in divisional round.

He also made the playoffs with Quincy Carter and Tony Romo in Dallas. 

To sum it up, he made 3 super bowls with 3 different QBs.  Outside of Brady belichick made 1 postseason appearance with 1 QB.

Former BB assistants have won 9 super bowls, none of the coaches on BBs extensive coaching tree have even made a conference championship game.

Parcells could win with anyone, BB could only win with Brady.

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IMO Parcells was the most influential HC of his generation, while Bellichick is the most winning.  

Parcells spawned several SB winning HCs and that includes Bellichick, and Parcells is quoted ad naseum about his philosophy and approach to the game.  For example, “ You are what your record says you are” and one I actually use in my classes on business management and in my own company “You can not coach the coaches.” 

Indeed tellingly, the interview with the two Bills was highly illuminating,  in that one could clearly see that Bellichick acknowledges and looked at Parcells as a mentor. Yes Bellichick helped Parcells but so did Sean Payton, Tom Coughlin, Romeo and a host of other great coaches. 

No one person alone wins anything in football despite the myth hyped by fans.  

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

BP won super bowls with 2 noon Hof QBs.

He made a third SB with a QB that was in his prime and went 5-13 with Belichick.

He also made the playoffs with Vinny testaverde, winning a rare division title for the Jets and making an AFC championship while with BB Vinny was part of WC team that got crushed in divisional round.

He also made the playoffs with Quincy Carter and Tony Romo in Dallas. 

To sum it up, he made 3 super bowls with 3 different QBs.  Outside of Brady belichick made 1 postseason appearance with 1 QB.

Former BB assistants have won 9 super bowls, none of the coaches on BBs extensive coaching tree have even made a conference championship game.

Parcells could win with anyone, BB could only win with Brady.

BB could have won yesterdays superbowl with Julian Edelman at QB.

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1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

BB could have won yesterdays superbowl with Julian Edelman at QB.

But he didn't.  Yesterday was the first time his D played great start to finish in a super bowl, they won yesterday because of defense for the first time but lets not forget the D just allowed 31 in the title game so without the O saving them they don't reach that SB.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

But he didn't.  Yesterday was the first time his D played great start to finish in a super bowl, they won yesterday because of defense for the first time but lets not forget the D just allowed 31 in the title game so without the O saving them they don't reach that SB.

  

 

First Superbowl was won by defense and special teams. Brady had some nice dump offs to the flats on the last drive to put them in FG range.  BTW, that Chiefs defense was trash all season. Most good QB's they faced thrashed them.

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2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

First Superbowl was won by defense and special teams. Brady had some nice dump offs to the flats on the last drive to put them in FG range.  BTW, that Chiefs defense was trash all season. Most good QB's they faced thrashed them.

That was the other time the D could receive a large portion of the credit but they also became the first D EVER to blow a double digit fourth quarter lead in a super bowl when they blew a 14 point lead before Brady and the O saved the day

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As a doucebag white knight who rode into awful situations , spent to the max and then fled before he could finish the job whilst leaving his teams in cap hell. 

Parcells was a great HC for the Giants pre-salary cap when he was afforded great rosters by owners who open their pocket books.  Post salary cap era - mehhhh

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4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I could be wrong but I think the only successful season he had without Bill Belichick was with the Cowboys (and I think Sean Payton was on that staff).  Certainly he could pick assistants (Tom Coughlin was also on his staff with the Giants btw) but did he get way too much credit all those years?  Maybe it was mostly Belichick who brought him success.  

He's a HOF'er with two Rings.  So he has a legacy.

But that legacy is most certainly NOT what it was 20 years ago.

In 100 years no one will remember Parcells any more than folks today remember Hank Stram.

Bellichek, on the other hand, will be known as the greatest Coach who ever lived, and the damn title trophy will almost assuredly bear his name at that point.

TLDR:  Parcells, for all his fans here, will be a historical footnote, a good coach who won alot of games, but isn't in the conversation of best ever, and the more time goes by, the more the "Bellichek carried Parcells" belief will grow.

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4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

As an all time great coach.

He didn't coach long without belichick and when he did he took over the worst franchise in the sport both on and off the field in NE and led them to the playoffs and then led Dallas to the playoffs with Quincy Carter.

 

In 7 seasons without BB Parcells made the playoffs 3 times with Drew bledsoe, Quincy Carter and Tony Romo.  In 7 seasons without Tom Brady bill belichick made the playoffs one time.

 

Bill Parcells was the better HC, he just never had the greatest QB of all time.

it's kind of one of those unstated thing.  coaching success and qb's go hand in hand.  it's too late now but it would've been interesting to see the bellichiken coaching a team like the redskins or doltfins even after winning one or two sb's in new england. and it also be interesting to see how brady performs playing on a different team and with a different coach. at least to bellichickens credit he's been around so long he has coached different player make ups except for brady. 

the bottom line is these skills aren't always transportable.  parcells was one of the few that were successful with every team.

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The bigger issue for me is why guys like BP and BB will not utter the words “New York Jets” and BP is a consultant for the Browns.  

Until the Johnsons can get a grip on that, it will be tough for the Jets to move truly forward.  

The fact that the greatest and one of the greatest coaches of all time both worked for the Johnsons and despise them is a very, very bad sign that people don’t pay enough attention to.  

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2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

As a doucebag white knight who rode into awful situations , spent to the max and then fled before he could finish the job whilst leaving his teams in cap hell. 

Parcells was a great HC for the Giants pre-salary cap when he was afforded great rosters by owners who open their pocket books.  Post salary cap era - mehhhh

In 2000, he drafted Saun Ellis, John Abraham, Chad Pennington and Laverneus Coles. 

His coaching staff that year included Al Groh as HC with guys like Todd Haley, Todd Bowles, Bob Sutton, Ken Whisenhunt, Dan Henning and Mike Nolan. 

He put the Jets in position to win better than just about any past/future HC/GM. 

He was a brilliant NFL mind and while people can point to Bellichick as the reason for his success, let's not forget that Bellichick has never proven he can be "great" without Brady. 

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He should be very highly thought of.  When you turn around multiple teams going south or on the drags and make them a factor within a few years you know what you are doing.

Belichick is the gold standard of coaches but did he turn around the browns?  Were the Pats brilliant without brady?

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8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I could be wrong but I think the only successful season he had without Bill Belichick was with the Cowboys (and I think Sean Payton was on that staff).  Certainly he could pick assistants (Tom Coughlin was also on his staff with the Giants btw) but did he get way too much credit all those years?  Maybe it was mostly Belichick who brought him success.  

Answer:  I don't care.  He is long gone and let us not forget---he walked out on us,like he did to other teams

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10 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I could be wrong but I think the only successful season he had without Bill Belichick was with the Cowboys (and I think Sean Payton was on that staff).  Certainly he could pick assistants (Tom Coughlin was also on his staff with the Giants btw) but did he get way too much credit all those years?  Maybe it was mostly Belichick who brought him success.  

Non of which means he would have been just as successful with Belichich away from the Giants those 2 SB wins.  

 

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2 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Parcells and Belichick are both on my Mt. Rushmore for Coaches. BB lauds Tuna whenever he gets a chance, says how much he learned from him. Anyone underrating Parcells doesn’t have a clue.

In no order top 5 coaches for me are

Parcells, Belichick, Walsh, Lombardi, Gibbs.

Without Shula the list is missing a major piece.

EDIT:  Have to add Paul Brown, he could easily be the best.  He was the most innovative.  First to use film, head sets, signals etc.  Way ahead of his time

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He'll be remembered as one of the great coaches in NFL history and perhaps the greatest motivator of his time.  He will also be remembered for always leaving his stops on less than good terms and for burning the house down on his way out the door.  Tremendous football mind, master motivator, egocentric and acerbic, what you see is what you get.

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10 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

He’ll be remembered as an all time great, but he should be remembered as the turd that cost us Peyton and Belichick. 

People really should stop with the he cost us Peyton stuff.  He was trying to win a SB for a dying owner.  Swearing up and down that no matter the trade offer you wouldn't make that trade would have been stupid.  Manning wasn't even the unanimous, cant miss, 1st pick prospect people think.  Lots of people thought Leaf would be better.  Roll that around, lol

 

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