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Defense STILL wins championships


CanadaSteve

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10 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Literally the only times Brady has lost in the super bowl were against teams that had a pass rush.  

 

Gee...

The only times he has lost have been b/c of his defense.  He didn't play great in either Giant game but he left the field late w/ a lead.  The D blew the lead and didn't leave Brady enough time to come back unlike the Rams, Panthers, Seahawks and Falcons SBs.

The Philly game he led his O to 33 points and lost, a Super Bowl record though to be fair he did have a legitimate shot late to try to tie it but they would have needed a TD and 2 pt conversion. That is when he was sacked and fumbled to end it.

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You can spin anything to make some pointless argument.  None of any of your twisted circle logic has a thing to do with penalizing Belichick for one QB who he has going strong into his 40s.  

Noll made what?  We're talking championships.  Not making the postseason with Brister.  Using your logic Rex is a HOF HC making a AFCCG with a scrub named Sanchize 

Rex has a better coaching resume than Belichick does w/o Brady so thanks for bringing up Rex.

BB didn't have to win championships w/ other QBs but he could have done something.  5 losing seasons in 7 years, just 1 WC playoff app- that's not good.  Bill parcells won SBs w/ 2 different QBs and made a third(w/ a guy BB would go 5-13 with by the way).  Don Shula made SBs w/ 4 different QBs and one of them was David Woodley.  Joe Gibbs won 3 w/ 3 different QBs.  Andy Reid has made conf championship games w/ multiple QBs, even a guy like John Fox made SBs w/ multiple QBs.

Some greats, like Lombardi and Walsh, never really had another QB but Belichick had 7+ seasons w/ QBs other than Brady and the record is poor.  He was on his way to being fired in NE before Brady became his QB and then all of sudden they become the greatest dynasty we've ever seen.

This doesn't mean BB isn't great or that he doesn't deserve credit but he cannot be in the running for greatest coach of all time when he couldn't get it done w/o the greatest QB of all time.

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12 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I was talking about Peyton. As far as Eli goes his D dominated against Brady twice, Rodgers, favre, Romo, Ryan, Smith.  They won because of defense, he's never won a playoff game where his D gave up more than 20 points- that's all we need to know

In the 2006 postseason, Peyton Manning and an offense that was top 3 in points and yardage went for 400 yards in 3 of 4 games.  You stated the defense won that championship.  The above post does not address that in any way.  Saying a defense won that title is beyond silly.

I hate Eli as much as the next guy, but the 2011 Giants also had 400 yards of O in 3 of 4 postseason games.  You don't think 26 first downs to keep the Pats off the field contributed to that win?  The offense gave the defense a fairly easy job.  Of course most teams need/get a solid showing on D to win, but the 2011 Giants were demonstrably better on O than D.  You can keep talking about it, but it isn't really up for conversation

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34 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

In the 2006 postseason, Peyton Manning and an offense that was top 3 in points and yardage went for 400 yards in 3 of 4 games.  You stated the defense won that championship.  The above post does not address that in any way.  Saying a defense won that title is beyond silly.

I hate Eli as much as the next guy, but the 2011 Giants also had 400 yards of O in 3 of 4 postseason games.  You don't think 26 first downs to keep the Pats off the field contributed to that win?  The offense gave the defense a fairly easy job.  Of course most teams need/get a solid showing on D to win, but the 2011 Giants were demonstrably better on O than D.  You can keep talking about it, but it isn't really up for conversation

First off I said in super bowls.  In that SB the colts held their opponent to 10 and Indy's O only scored 22 but in that postseason the D dominated, the O was not great other than the second half vs NE.

Vs kc won 23-8, it's hard to lose a game allowing 8 points and 23 is ok but nothing great.  The KC D also forced 3 TOs.

At Baltimore they won 15-6.  The colts didn't score a TD and the D held Bal to just 2 FGs.  The D forced 4 TOs and 2 of them led directly to 2 of Indy's scores. After Bal just cut Indy lead to 12-6 in the 4th big game Peyton threw an int to set Bal up near midfield with all the momentum.  What did the Indy D do?  They picked off Steve McNair. Next possession Peyton goes 3 and out, what does Indy D do? Forces a 3 and out of their own.

In the AFC championship game they trailed 21-3 thanks in large part to a pick six.  The O dominated in the second half and the D shut down the greatest QB of all time.

In the SB the D trailed 7-0 before they ever took the field.  The colts O basically made one play where Reggie Wayne was wide open after a busted coverage.  Other than that they did very little despite 5 Chicago turnovers.  With the bears down only 22-17 in the fourth the colts D returned an int for a TD to seal it.

 

The colts D led that playoff run, a blind man could see it.  

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59 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

In the 2006 postseason, Peyton Manning and an offense that was top 3 in points and yardage went for 400 yards in 3 of 4 games.  You stated the defense won that championship.  The above post does not address that in any way.  Saying a defense won that title is beyond silly.

I hate Eli as much as the next guy, but the 2011 Giants also had 400 yards of O in 3 of 4 postseason games.  You don't think 26 first downs to keep the Pats off the field contributed to that win?  The offense gave the defense a fairly easy job.  Of course most teams need/get a solid showing on D to win, but the 2011 Giants were demonstrably better on O than D.  You can keep talking about it, but it isn't really up for conversation

As far as Eli. 

WC vs ATL.  His D SHUT OUT Matt Ryan and Atlanta. Atlanta's only points came from an Eli intentional grounding in the EZ.  It was only 7-2 at half, 10-2 until late in the third.  The Giants made it 17-2 late in the third after the Giants D stopped ATL on 4th and 1 demoralizing the falcons before the Giants scored some late points.

At GB- this was his only great postseason game which was added by a hail Mary but the story of this game was the Giants D holding down the league MVP and #1 offense. GB averaged 35 a game and the Giants D held them to 13 until a garbage time TD have GB 20.  

At SF- the Giants O scored 10 points total in the 3rd, 4th and OT.  Both scoring "drives" were set up by STs TOs where the Giants began at the SF 29 and SF 24.  The O scored 17 pts in regulation.

In the SB the D held the greatest QB of all time to 17 points AND they scored 2 points.

It's nice they had some yards, the NE O had 400+ yards the other day.  Would you say they played well?

The Giants went on that SB run because the D held ATL to zero points, held GB to 13 in competitive portion of the game, held SF to 17 and STs forced 2 huge TOs, held Brady to 17 pts and scored.

 

There's a reason Eli Manning has never won a playoff game in which his D allowed more than 20 points.

I didn't say the Os did not contribute, they obviously did, but these playoff runs were led by great defense.  Without it they would not have even made the SB let alone win it.

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21 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

As far as Eli. 

WC vs ATL.  His D SHUT OUT Matt Ryan and Atlanta. Atlanta's only points came from an Eli intentional grounding in the EZ.  It was only 7-2 at half, 10-2 until late in the third.  The Giants made it 17-2 late in the third after the Giants D stopped ATL on 4th and 1 demoralizing the falcons before the Giants scored some late points.

At GB- this was his only great postseason game which was added by a hail Mary but the story of this game was the Giants D holding down the league MVP and #1 offense. GB averaged 35 a game and the Giants D held them to 13 until a garbage time TD have GB 20.  

At SF- the Giants O scored 10 points total in the 3rd, 4th and OT.  Both scoring "drives" were set up by STs TOs where the Giants began at the SF 29 and SF 24.  The O scored 17 pts in regulation.

In the SB the D held the greatest QB of all time to 17 points AND they scored 2 points.

It's nice they had some yards, the NE O had 400+ yards the other day.  Would you say they played well?

The Giants went on that SB run because the D held ATL to zero points, held GB to 13 in competitive portion of the game, held SF to 17 and STs forced 2 huge TOs, held Brady to 17 pts and scored.

 

There's a reason Eli Manning has never won a playoff game in which his D allowed more than 20 points.

I didn't say the Os did not contribute, they obviously did, but these playoff runs were led by great defense.  Without it they would not have even made the SB let alone win it.

Who gives a flaming ****?  The 2006 Colts were an offensive team.  Period.  You can pick through and comment (competitive portion of the game LOL) but that is not up for debate.  Without a great offense they wouldn't even have sniffed the playoffs.   

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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Who gives a flaming ****?  The 2006 Colts were an offensive team.  Period.  You can pick through and comment (competitive portion of the game LOL) but that is not up for debate.  Without a great offense they wouldn't even have sniffed the playoffs.   

I don't disagree with that last sentence but Peyton historically choked in postseason, without great D leading the way in postseason he doesn't have a SB ring.

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