Macc's biggest flub

[David Harris]

I’m still fine with the Hack pick- hated it at the time and continue to but it’s irrelevant to me that he isn’t at least the backup and didn’t play a single snap in the NFL- a whiff on a qb are all iterations of the same, Paxton Lynch, Bryce petty, jimmy clauusen - All the same ultimate outcome I E not the guy

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 2/8/2019 at 10:51 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

I think it's the combination of Hack and failing to take Mahomes or Watson. 

These are glossed over at this stage because we have Darnold but the horrendous pick of Hackenberg coupled with passing on Mahomes and Watson to give Hack another shot... Just awful.

The overall neglect of the offensive line is probably up there too.

Its probably  glossed over because they were seen as project or not best of the class just like the best 5th or 6th prospect. Hell I'll give you 4. But not too 3. Not a big deal he missed. I mean that's like saying damn I knew we should have drafted Brady

 Go of here with this comment. But with you for hack. That's fair. But let's not like everyone knew Watson and mahomes were awesome.

[kelticwizard]

I say not drafting Mahomes or Watson because when Macc gave up on Geno even before the first season of his term began, he should have made a serious plan to get a franchise QB.  Instead, he sticks us with two journeymen for four straight years while he dickered around with two 2nd and 4th  round projects  that never even came close.  That's the worst thing.

[varjet]

The Hack pick confirmed that Mac and team were doing zero scouting. 

We saw it the next year with Stewart, and scratched our heads the next year with Shepherd 

This can be fixed, if someone is trying to fix the scouting process right now  

That or just go McShay and Kiper   

 

[Sonny Werblin]

On 2/8/2019 at 1:51 PM, jgb said:

When I started writing these out I asked myself "how does this guy still have a job?"

So true. What does he have to do to get fired if he hasn't done it yet?

[jgb]

Just want to point out that making Trumaine Johnson the second highest paid corner in the league doesn't even register a vote. That's how bad Maccidzik is.

[Saul Goodman]

Gotta be offensive line. It’s conceivable that we could have been 8-8 this past season with a really good line. 

[Bruce Harper]

Undoubtedly, his worst whiff is CHRISTIAN HACKENBERG. He couldn't hit the ocean he was so bad. It's first day misses like that that will break a team. His picks overall have been below average at best and the yield numbers support that. Overall, even on picks he's hit on they are nothing to write home about, (Williams, Jenkins, etc.)
It seems to me whenever he's tasked with making a pick using scouting reports he stinks up the joint. Whenever, there's a no brainer pick that slips to him he's always smart enough to take him, (Adams, Darnold). That's probably his only saving grace.

Everybody in the world seemed to know how bad he was except Mac. I remember all those articles that immediately said they thought he was undraftable. Definitely not a good sign of things to come. Hoping his new right hand will push him in a better direction.

[Bruce Harper]

Also cost the Jets Mahomes or Watson. The Hack pick set this franchise back a couple of years.

We haven’t had a decent second round pick since David Harris.


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[long suffering jets fan]

So many I wanted to choose.  Not surprised that Hack was #1, but it shouldn't be.  Let's face it, picks go bad and he wasn't a first rounder anyway.

 I think it was a bigger mistake to not bail on him earlier.  If we had, we could have drafted Mahomes and still had our 1st and two 2nd round picks last year to really rebuild the team.

Dis-honorable mentions include:

- Not getting OL help (would have had Nelson if we went Mahomes, or Watson)

- Not getting edge rusher, again could have had one if..

- Resigning Mo and letting Snacks go.

- Taking job where a coach was already selected before he got here.

[long suffering jets fan]

On 2/10/2019 at 12:41 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

 It’s a “BFD” because there was zero chance Hack would ever be a successful starter in the NFL. None. Zilch. And everyone but Macc seemed to know that at the time he made the pick.  

 

And this isn’t hindsight talking. No one with Hackenberg’s college resume had ever been a successful pro. QBASE gave him an 80 % bust probability, which was even higher than Lynch and Connor Cook, from that same draft class. The model, which has done quite well at projecting QB’s futures, compared him to Brock Huard, Dave Ragone, Kyle Boller, Marques Tuiasosopo and Quincy Carter.

 

Then, to make matters worse, Macc doubled down on Hackenberg the next season, passing on Mahomes and Watson in the process.

 

That’s why the Hackenberg pick is his worst decision. It’s the perfect example of Macc being outsmarted by the rest of the league.

 

It was having him for a year and not realizing his err that was his biggest mistake, you have it backwards. If he had realized it, he could have picked Mahomes and three solid players last year.

[long suffering jets fan]

7 hours ago, jgb said:

Just want to point out that making Trumaine Johnson the second highest paid corner in the league doesn't even register a vote. That's how bad Maccidzik is.

Revis #2.  Signing an over the hill CB to big $ when there are so many other needs. Bowles/Rogers didn't help the situation either.

[varjet]

It’s early yet, but do you think Hacks bad showing in the AAF puts Mac deeper in the hole with the Johnsons?  It should.  

[bealeb319]

I think it's the combination of Hack and failing to take Mahomes or Watson. 
These are glossed over at this stage because we have Darnold but the horrendous pick of Hackenberg coupled with passing on Mahomes and Watson to give Hack another shot... Just awful.
The overall neglect of the offensive line is probably up there too.

Watson was the type of qb who needs a very particular scheme and also had an injury history. Mahomes was a meh prospect who lucked his way into a team that had a Madden style offensive roster. Impossible to say for certain but I do not suspect either player would have found much success with the jets. Also I think it is too early to say darnold glosses anything over he is a good prospect but at this point is nothing more than that

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[JetFaninMI]

His biggest flub? Hell you could do a top ten list like Letterman used too.

For me his all around performance is so bad that I can't narrow it down to just one. Yes he drafted Darnold but the other moves outweigh that one so far.

I picked OL neglect because it's Macc's latest and IMO his most glaring flub.

 

[#27TheDominator]

On 2/8/2019 at 2:52 PM, CanadaSteve said:

 

That being said, its funny when you look at who was picked after Hack and before Jenkins, there wasn't that much there. 

 

Did you actually look?  The very next player was Darron Lee only better.  Cody Whitehair, Ngakoue, Austin Hooper, Tyler Boyd, Kenyan Drake, Thuney, Worley, Sean Davis, Byard, Bradberry.  I can't wait until the Jets trade for Carl Nassib and you explain what a great move it is by Mack. 

On 2/8/2019 at 3:52 PM, dcJet said:

I think passing Watson for Adams.  Mahomes wasn't even on the radar with Watson, clearly the better prospect, still available.

 

I don't know which was a better prospect, but at least three guys had threads on here about how we should be drafting him. 

On 2/8/2019 at 4:10 PM, More Cowbell said:

I don't think you can fault him for Watson because honestly, Watson really hasn't done much. He's good but until he does more than first round exit in the playoffs...I mean the Texans were good before he got there and nobody knew Mahomes would be this good. I can't blame him for having a long plan in getting a high pick for one of the top 3 QB's. Hack is by far and away his biggest mistake,. I was shocked when he made that pick. I figured Hack for a 5th round pick. 

We can't fault him for Watson because Watson only made a first round exit in the playoffs?  I think the last 5 QBs Mac was involved with have never even made the playoffs.  Maybe McCown did as a backup.

The Texans won 2 more games last year than they had in any season over the last 6.  They were 1-9 in games Watson missed in 2017, 3-3 when he played. 

On 2/8/2019 at 4:36 PM, Larz said:

In breers article he clearly stated that maccagnan scouted both classes and decided to go after a 2018 QB 

Mahomes put up pretty numbers and is fun to watch but nobody saw that coming as evidenced by the Watson pick ahead of him and Buffalo trading out of the pick in the first place 

 

Watson didn't go ahead of Mahomes.  Mahomes went 10, Watson 12 and as I said above, at least 3 guys on this very board had threads about how we should draft him.  Buffalo management not seeing something is not a vote of confidence.  Nathan Peterman is the Christian Hackenberg of northern NY.

1 hour ago, varjet said:

It’s early yet, but do you think Hacks bad showing in the AAF puts Mac deeper in the hole with the Johnsons?  It should.  

Why?  That isn't the Christian Hackenberg Maccagnan drafted.  From what I read, he completely reinvented himself in Oakland. Then again for the AAF.  Maccagnan couldn't be expected to know Hack would be so bad with his 3rd throwing motion in 2 years.  Could he?

[drsamuel84]

On 2/8/2019 at 3:10 PM, CrazyCarl40 said:

Based on the choices I went with the OL option. Because it’s been neglected for years. Also, I would put Buster Skrine on this list. That was a total failure compounded by rearranging his money. I mean, his first free agency spending spree 4 years ago will probably have 0 players retained from that splurge. 

I think that is one of the bigger flubs that goes unnoticed.  Not specifically Skrine but the fact that the Jets and Macc doubled down on the 2015 season and basically gave Fitz the starting job and bringing back a lot of those over the hill veterans.  They should've realize they caught lightening  in a bottle and began breaking it down immediately after that.  Not that the Bills have done anything yet but they were at least smart enough to realize that narrowly making the  playoffs with Tyrod Taylor and that team in 2017 was not sustainable and instead of trying to go 9-7 again and maybe getting a Wild Card spot they chose to completely break it down.  Basically all that did was buy Macc two years so essentially the organization looks at this year as the make or break year 3 of the rebuild.  

[MDL_JET]

17 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

So true. What does he have to do to get fired if he hasn't done it yet?

Pretty sure Sam Darnold gave him a bit of a reset button in the eyes of Chris Johnson. 

And now he'll only be judged on what he does starting from last season.  Crazy but that's how I see it. 

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Did you actually look?  The very next player was Darron Lee only better.  Cody Whitehair, Ngakoue, Austin Hooper, Tyler Boyd, Kenyan Drake, Thuney, Worley, Sean Davis, Byard, Bradberry.  I can't wait until the Jets trade for Carl Nassib and you explain what a great move it is by Mack. 

Okay, first off NOWHERE did I defend Mac, so don't presume I am going to pronounce the genius in him because he might sign a player that got drafted after Hack.  The pick should never had happened.  And yes, I do know exactly who was drafted.  IN ORDER: Deion Jones, Su'a Cravens, Mackenzie Alexander, Tyler Boyd, Cody Whitehair, T.J. Green, Shawn Davis, Roberto Aguayo, Cyrus Jones, Vonn Bell, James Bradberry, Adam Gotsis, Kevin Byard, Carl Nassib, Max Tuerk, Maliek Collins, Will Redmond, Yannick Ngakoue, Bronson Kaufusi, Darian Thompson, Jonathan Bullard, Kenyan Drake, KeiVarae Russell, Shilique Calhoun, Shon Coleman, Daryl Worley, Joe Thuney, Isaac Seumalo, Adolphus Washington, Austin Hooper, Le Raven Clark. 

I wanted us to draft Max Tuerk because we needed a centre, and that has not exactly worked out since he is already on his second team and still can't cut it with Arizona.  Out of all the players you list, the most worthy was Ngakoue, who we would not have drafted given who we had on our team already.  I liked Nassib, but my whole point was that at least there wasn't a Tom Brady sitting there to pluck and we passed.  Carl Nassib, in my opinion, does not warrant consideration in the "Oops we took Kyle Brady over Warren Sapp" conversation.  I am not defending the Hack pick.  It was HORRIBLE.  One of the worst in Jets history, but at least it didn't cost us a perennial all-star like Kyle Brady did.  It is small solace, given how brutal a pick it was. 

[TNJet]

Its gotta be oline neglect. He fixed Hack with Darnold. If Macc doesn't draft atleast 2 olinemen this year he's on my sht list for sure.

[Jetsplayer21]

On 2/9/2019 at 9:14 AM, Jetster said:

It's Hackenberg by a country mile! 

When your so stubborn that you believe something that the person closest to Hackenberg DOESN'T see, your a STUBBORN ASS. 

Now, I believe Macc has done a lot better since & hopefully he learned a lot from whiffing on Hack. As a GM, how do you justify taking a QB in the 2nd round when this particular QBs old Head Coach trades up 1 spot above you & your quaking in your boots that he's pulled a fast one to take the guy he knows & coached in college & instead puts in his draft card & it's an offensive lineman? 

Right at that moment, Macc should have been saying, wait a damn second, the Coach that had him at Penn State just traded above me, not for Christian, even though the Texans NEEDED A YOUNG QB to groom. 

Jets should have taken that as a sure sign they had the wrong guy & scrambled to the next guy in line on their chalk board, but no Macc was smarter than your average bear. Well, maybe not.

Stubborn over his failure to admit his often severe lack of judgement is a major issue. His handling of the OL is the same stubborn bad judgement. He believed he could replace Dbrick with clady, and believes he can find the “ diamond in the rough “ OLineman by only drafting them in 6th and 7th rounds. Sign a bunch of b and C tier Olineman hoping one or 2 Break out, instead of investing in the tier 1 free agents. Mac obsession with BPA makes him a bad gm. Almost every gm realizes the increased value of Oline, so gms often reach in the draft. Like they do with pass rushers. Why we don’t have either.. instead of reaching a pass rusher, top OL, mac is stubborn with “ best player available “ and picks the best overall player ranked in the draft 2 years in a row. Non pass rushing dL, and a safety.. two positions most gms would never pick at 6. 

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

His biggest flub? Hell you could do a top ten list like Letterman used too.

For me his all around performance is so bad that I can't narrow it down to just one. Yes he drafted Darnold but the other moves outweigh that one so far.

I picked OL neglect because it's Macc's latest and IMO his most glaring flub.

 

Macc is 14-34 last 3 years — and he’s guaranteed another 3 years in the same job

 

 

Let that sink in

[rangerous]

On 2/8/2019 at 2:53 PM, CanadaSteve said:

You can...We didn't have a QB, and you have to keep drafting them until you find one.

That said, as good as the two QB's are, they would not be as good here as they were.  KC's offense was a leader.  Mahomes does no better than Darnold did this year.  Same for Watson.

 

true enough about mahommes or watson had they been drafted by mac but it's still pretty clear that he was still set on hack or petty being decent qb's after a couple of seasons of bench sitting.  and it's hard to figure how that first season with fitz figured into it.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

true enough about mahommes or watson had they been drafted by mac but it's still pretty clear that he was still set on hack or petty being decent qb's after a couple of seasons of bench sitting.  and it's hard to figure how that first season with fitz figured into it.

Is Watson really that good tho?  He has the best WR in football beasting it for him and he sucked in the playoff game

 

Mahomes I don’t think has the same success here.  

 

[Skeet Ulrich]

He didn't pick a 23 year old QB MVP for a strong safety.

 

 

[bealeb319]

He didn't pick a 23 year old QB MVP for a strong safety.
 
 

A strong safety who might be the best or at least in that argument in the league over a qb who needed to be redshirted a year before being handed the keys to one of the most powerful offenses ever built in the nfl

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[New York Mick]

 Neglecting the oline. Without an oline nothing else matters. 

[rangerous]

44 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Is Watson really that good tho?  He has the best WR in football beasting it for him and he sucked in the playoff game

 

Mahomes I don’t think has the same success here.  

 

as it turns out, watson needs more experience.  he has to learn the game more.  but either is better than hack even if bowles was developing them.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Stubborn over his failure to admit his often severe lack of judgement is a major issue. His handling of the OL is the same stubborn bad judgement. He believed he could replace Dbrick with clady, and believes he can find the “ diamond in the rough “ OLineman by only drafting them in 6th and 7th rounds. Sign a bunch of b and C tier Olineman hoping one or 2 Break out, instead of investing in the tier 1 free agents. Mac obsession with BPA makes him a bad gm. Almost every gm realizes the increased value of Oline, so gms often reach in the draft. Like they do with pass rushers. Why we don’t have either.. instead of reaching a pass rusher, top OL, mac is stubborn with “ best player available “ and picks the best overall player ranked in the draft 2 years in a row. Non pass rushing dL, and a safety.. two positions most gms would never pick at 6. 

Had a boss who suffered from “hidden gem disorder.” Refused to hire anyone with actual experience. Instead selected people with interesting personal stories because she fancied herself a “people guru” that could develop anyone. Advised her many times that you can take some calculated risks on those type of people but only when you already have a foundation of substantive knowledge and experience on the team. Predictably, the handful of people she inherited who knew how to do the job ended up doing all the work and we all left within months.

[More Cowbell]

21 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Did you actually look?  The very next player was Darron Lee only better.  Cody Whitehair, Ngakoue, Austin Hooper, Tyler Boyd, Kenyan Drake, Thuney, Worley, Sean Davis, Byard, Bradberry.  I can't wait until the Jets trade for Carl Nassib and you explain what a great move it is by Mack. 

I don't know which was a better prospect, but at least three guys had threads on here about how we should be drafting him. 

We can't fault him for Watson because Watson only made a first round exit in the playoffs?  I think the last 5 QBs Mac was involved with have never even made the playoffs.  Maybe McCown did as a backup.

The Texans won 2 more games last year than they had in any season over the last 6.  They were 1-9 in games Watson missed in 2017, 3-3 when he played. 

Watson didn't go ahead of Mahomes.  Mahomes went 10, Watson 12 and as I said above, at least 3 guys on this very board had threads about how we should draft him.  Buffalo management not seeing something is not a vote of confidence.  Nathan Peterman is the Christian Hackenberg of northern NY.

Why?  That isn't the Christian Hackenberg Maccagnan drafted.  From what I read, he completely reinvented himself in Oakland. Then again for the AAF.  Maccagnan couldn't be expected to know Hack would be so bad with his 3rd throwing motion in 2 years.  Could he?

The point on Watson is he wins game but was not up to it in the playoffs but Mahomes was. Should he have picked Watson? Maybe but we might be saddled with a guy that is great in the regular season and can't  turn it up in the playoffs. So far that is what he is. As far as his plan to wait out until the 2018 class, I would have to say he was right. I think we either ended up with Darnold or Mayfield. I was sure the Giants were not taking a QB.o was telling everyone in my family of Giants fans that they would take Barkley.  

As far as Mahomes, if GM's thought he was going to be this very accurate  athletic freak we are seeing, he would have been #1 overall. Nobody saw this coming. 

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, rangerous said:

as it turns out, watson needs more experience.  he has to learn the game more.  but either is better than hack even if bowles was developing them.

Well yeah you and me could probably play the qb position better than Hackenberg 

 

I just think Watson has hit his ceiling and it ain’t that high

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, jgb said:

Had a boss who suffered from “hidden gem disorder.” Refused to hire anyone with actual experience. Instead selected people with interesting personal stories because she fancied herself a “people guru” that could develop anyone. Advised her many times that you can take some calculated risks on those type of people but only when you already have a foundation of substantive knowledge and experience on the team. Predictably, the handful of people she inherited who knew how to do the job ended up doing all the work and we all left within months.

In the real world sometimes you don’t want people with experience.  I’ve worked with and supervised people who had amazing resumes who were absolutely horrible 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

In the real world sometimes you don’t want people with experience.  I’ve worked with and supervised people who had amazing resumes who were absolutely horrible 

Need a mix. But when your field is relatively technical you can’t take someone who doesn’t even apply and has zero experience whatsoever doing the job (she would look on LinkedIn for people who had interesting personal stories) unless like I said you’re taking a chance on someone. But to build a whole team that way? Destined to fail.

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

A strong safety who might be the best or at least in that argument in the league over a qb who needed to be redshirted a year before being handed the keys to one of the most powerful offenses ever built in the nfl

It's a strike against Mahomes that he had to sit for a year?  lol.  The Chiefs had given big money to Alex Smith.  There was ample reason to continue to throw him out there until such time that they wanted to trade him.  Which they did, and when he was at peak value at that. 

And despite Smith having a career year, the Chiefs were anxious to get Mahomes under center.  Some people here questioned the move, thinking it was dumb to get rid of Smith.  That evaporated quickly. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

The point on Watson is he wins game but was not up to it in the playoffs but Mahomes was. Should he have picked Watson? Maybe but we might be saddled with a guy that is great in the regular season and can't  turn it up in the playoffs. So far that is what he is. As far as his plan to wait out until the 2018 class, I would have to say he was right. I think we either ended up with Darnold or Mayfield. I was sure the Giants were not taking a QB.o was telling everyone in my family of Giants fans that they would take Barkley.  

As far as Mahomes, if GM's thought he was going to be this very accurate  athletic freak we are seeing, he would have been #1 overall. Nobody saw this coming. 

Everybody and their mother knew that Mahomes was an athletic freak. The knock was the "gimmick" offense. If Adams was the smart pick he would have traded down.  If he wanted to stack assets for the  2018 class, he would have traded down. People think he couldn't trade down.  How did the Bills and Browns pull it off? 

QBs are a commodity.  Anybody with hope has value.