Bargain bin veteran free agents?

[Jetster]

Every year free agency starts out in a flurry of activity & then slows to a crawl up until & after the draft. In years past, signing with the NY Jets was like entering into pergatory. But this year feels different. I feel like we have a big boy coaching staff, and I feel veterans looking for a 1 year deal after being bypassed early in free agency for AGE, maybe injury history start looking for their best options to stick for a couple years. For a veteran WR the Jets will be looked at in a different lens with Darnold at QB compared to Fitz & McCown. 

On defense, players in this league are very familiar with Gregg Williams & know he's an aggresive head coach and if we come out of free agency with an edge rusher & a Josh Allen type, veteran LBs, CBs, would certainly consider their chance for success could be good here. 

This is the dawning of a new era for the Jets & I could see some of these veteran fill ins look at us as a decent pay check but also a future contender with a chance to make the playoffs. Last year this team was ignored by every free agent Olineman, and we were forced to accept what we could get. I think this offseason will be completely different.

[GaryM]

Lets hope that with the new coaching staff giving input into both FAs and the draft that we get it right this off season. We finally have a franchise QB so it is important to give him players to be successful.

[jamesr]

Hoping you're right, and guys might see us as a chance at success rather than just a source of $$$. I also wonder if the reputation (especially of Gregg Williams) as a no-nonsense ball-buster might deter some of the FAs who are ONLY looking for the $$$ ... and who are looking for an easy time in camp.

[Jetster]

1 minute ago, GaryM said:

Lets hope that with the new coaching staff giving input into both FAs and the draft that we get it right this off season. We finally have a franchise QB so it is important to give him players to be successful.

This is where I think Bowles & Macc being equal & Woody thinking resigning Revis would bring him some redemption with Jet fans put this team 2 years back further than we should have been.

I don't care what anyone tells me, Bowles was constantly trying to emulate what he had in Arizona. Revis, Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist set this franchise back! We instantly had NO SECONDARY when this guys fell off a cliff & got injured.

Then we draft Lee & then Williams, and are forced to draft 2 safeties because we had none! It was like a house of cards after that 1st complete defensive spending spree for Bowles. 

At least Macc TRIED to get some offense in here after the 1st round, drafting McGuire, Hack, Stewart, Hanson & Herndon. 

Bowles was such mistake, I'd like to punch Charlie Casserly right in his Elphin face for the suggestion to Woody. Not that anyone else worth a sh*t would have come here but this organization needed a shift to an offensive minded coach. 

Well, at least I'm still alive to see what this Gase/Williams/Darnold era will look like. Most excited I've been since 1998. 

[Jetster]

1 minute ago, jamesr said:

Hoping you're right, and guys might see us as a chance at success rather than just a source of $$$. I also wonder if the reputation (especially of Gregg Williams) as a no-nonsense ball-buster might deter some of the FAs who are ONLY looking for the $$$ ... and who are looking for an easy time in camp.

That's a great point! Guys know the deal with coaches in this league. A veteran defensive player CHOOSING to play for Gregg Williams knows what he's getting into. Same for milk toasts like Todd Bowles, guys know from watching the Jets, vets are not accountable. 

Look at guys that have chosen to go to New England. None of them are high profile, Van Noy, Jason McCourty, Clairborne, Chung actually RETURNED after leaving. I'm hoping the same thing happens here, where the 2nd wave of free agency lands us some solid experience & depth with some low profile but steady veterans that bring experience to the young guys & round out the roster.

[Bocajetfan]

27 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Hoping you're right, and guys might see us as a chance at success rather than just a source of $$$. I also wonder if the reputation (especially of Gregg Williams) as a no-nonsense ball-buster might deter some of the FAs who are ONLY looking for the $$$ ... and who are looking for an easy time in camp.

Why would you want to sign any free agent just looking for a payday. Many on this board roster Tru as just that type. Lots of excitement when he signed even more disappointment with his play. Free agents that Mac might sign will know what this staff expects and put in a positive effort. Fans should not be screaming over a missed signing that player just might be looking for that soft landing spot to collect their paycheck.

[NYJ1]

Our GM's philosophy for the last two years had been to shop for players that are below average at best. Players that would not be starters on other teams. So, in a way, you could say the Jets have plenty of depth but almost zero starters. Shopping in FA this year should only be about picking up starters. Players that will finally make the team competitive and not a push over.

[jamesr]

21 minutes ago, Bocajetfan said:

Why would you want to sign any free agent just looking for a payday. Many on this board roster Tru as just that type. Lots of excitement when he signed even more disappointment with his play. Free agents that Mac might sign will know what this staff expects and put in a positive effort. Fans should not be screaming over a missed signing that player just might be looking for that soft landing spot to collect their paycheck.

That's my point - any guy who's just looking for an easy ride will be less inclined to want to come here if they know camp is going to be really hard work.

You never want to sign a guy who's looking to coast, but you can't always tell who is.

[LIJetsFan]

3 hours ago, jamesr said:

Hoping you're right, and guys might see us as a chance at success rather than just a source of $$$. I also wonder if the reputation (especially of Gregg Williams) as a no-nonsense ball-buster might deter some of the FAs who are ONLY looking for the $$$ ... and who are looking for an easy time in camp.

I hope and pray it does.

[Creepy Lurker]

I wonder if we can bring in some cheap players that know out new defensive scheme and have worked with Gregg before. I’d be interested in those type of players like when Rex brought in Leonard, Scott, Marques Douglas. This way they have someone at every level of the defense that already knows the system. 

[rangerous]

bargain basement free agents? isn't that the course mac has been going the past couple of seasons?  there's a reason those guys are in the bargain basement.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Jetster said:

This is where I think Bowles & Macc being equal & Woody thinking resigning Revis would bring him some redemption with Jet fans put this team 2 years back further than we should have been.

I don't care what anyone tells me, Bowles was constantly trying to emulate what he had in Arizona. Revis, Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist set this franchise back! We instantly had NO SECONDARY when this guys fell off a cliff & got injured.

Then we draft Lee & then Williams, and are forced to draft 2 safeties because we had none! It was like a house of cards after that 1st complete defensive spending spree for Bowles. 

At least Macc TRIED to get some offense in here after the 1st round, drafting McGuire, Hack, Stewart, Hanson & Herndon. 

Bowles was such mistake, I'd like to punch Charlie Casserly right in his Elphin face for the suggestion to Woody. Not that anyone else worth a sh*t would have come here but this organization needed a shift to an offensive minded coach. 

Well, at least I'm still alive to see what this Gase/Williams/Darnold era will look like. Most excited I've been since 1998. 

Totally, this will be so easy-peasy going forward.

In the past, all the good picks and offense-picks were from Maccagnan, as you correctly suggest. We'd have a great, great OL if Maccagnan was left to build the way he wanted to. 

The bad ones, and definitely each selection on defense, was because of Bowles. Except when we want to talk about the greatness of the Adams pick, or citing his and Maye's glorious PFF rankings; solely for the purposes of these discussions the credit for the pick reverts back to Maccagnan again.

We are so lucky as Jets fans now we won't have Bowles to force defenders Ardarius Stewart and Christian Hackenberg and Devin Smith onto the forward-thinking, offense-minded GM anymore.

Solid post, filled with well-documented, irrefutable facts regarding recent history.  

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Totally, this will be so easy-peasy going forward.

In the past, all the good picks and offense-picks were from Maccagnan, as you correctly suggest. We'd have a great, great OL if Maccagnan was left to build the way he wanted to. 

The bad ones, and definitely each selection on defense, was because of Bowles. Except when we want to talk about the greatness of the Adams pick, or citing his and Maye's glorious PFF rankings; solely for the purposes of these discussions the credit for the pick reverts back to Maccagnan again.

We are so lucky as Jets fans now we won't have Bowles to force defenders Ardarius Stewart and Christian Hackenberg and Devin Smith onto the forward-thinking, offense-minded GM anymore.

Solid post, filled with well-documented, irrefutable facts regarding recent history.  

Last year we got our QB + our starting TE. We have our starting safeties. Williams will put Tru in position to succeed, Leonard will get a kick in the azz, Its the dawning of a new age & offense will be a focus.

[joewilly12]

We have the money to shop in the real store for free agents,stay out of the bargain basement. 

[varjet]

Every year there are teams competing, teams going for it all, and teams rebuilding. 

The teams going for it all will mortgage their futures to try to build a dominant team, like the Seahawks did trading for Sheldon.  Backfired.  

Teams competing will sign FAs, including some aging veterans on a last gasp, to add the last piece to make it interesting.  I think this is a necessary strategy.. 

Teams rebuilding should cut veterans with expiring high salaries and look for cheaper substitutes while they draft their way to a core.  That is what the Jets were supposed to do, but they ended up having to pick up more junk in FA because their draft picks were so bad.  

[Aussie Jet]

11 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I wonder if we can bring in some cheap players that know out new defensive scheme and have worked with Gregg before. I’d be interested in those type of players like when Rex brought in Leonard, Scott, Marques Douglas. This way they have someone at every level of the defense that already knows the system. 

There's talk that Cleveland are likely to cut Jamie Collins due to his salary. If he's getting a chunk of guaranteed money I wonder if he'll take an average contract (or cheaper) to reunite with Williams in New York.

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, Jetster said:

Last year we got our QB + our starting TE. We have our starting safeties. Williams will put Tru in position to succeed, Leonard will get a kick in the azz, Its the dawning of a new age & offense will be a focus.

All the good/smart picks were because of him and all the bad/stupid picks were because of someone else. These are documented facts, as you correctly pointed out.

[Jetster]

13 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

We have the money to shop in the real store for free agents,stay out of the bargain basement. 

I've stated numerous times I want to be aggressive in free agency to fix the Oline, RB & edge. Trent Brown, Matt Paradis and Lev Bell. 

Ive already stated the cap hit would be 35 million or more depending on the front loading of contracts. When I say bargain bin, I'm talking about that period where overpriced vets & their agents realize they're probably only going to be offered 1 year contracts. I think the Jets will be in a much better position for a few of these guys to fill out the roster because with Sam Darnold, a head coach who actually has Head coaching experience could draw veteran offensive players, and Williams could draw a couple veteran defensive players.

That was all I was saying. Of course the Jets will be active in free agency for better talent.

[Jetster]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

All the good/smart picks were because of him and all the bad/stupid picks were because of someone else. These are documented facts, as you correctly pointed out.

When are you going to let it go? You might as well get use to it, Macc is still here. Macc can still have a great draft this year, getting Sam & Herndon was a big WIN for his resume, no matter how you see it, even if you think he got lucky. 

I do think Macc had some bad drafts, we do have scouts that need to up their game. But, I do believe we all can get better at our jobs, I think Gase & Williams know the types of players they want. We definitely won't dismiss the offense as much with Bowles jettisoned. I do think in an equal power structure Bowles influence was all over this team, similar to Rex telling Coples he's picking him if he's there. I truly believe that history will prove Todd Bowles was one of the worst   HCs in our history. 14-34 the last 3 years WITHOUT FITZ-DECKER-MARSHALL. 

 

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

 I truly believe that history will prove Todd Bowles was one of the worst   HCs in our history. 14-34 the last 3 years WITHOUT FITZ-DECKER-MARSHALL. 

 

Bowles was terrible. 

As bad as the Cardinals can be, at least they realized Wilkes was not the answer early and let him go.  

The biggest mistake made was the Johnsons extending Mac and Bowles when everyone could see they were not good at their jobs.   It was a very expensive mistake. 

The hires were ok efforts in retrospect, but after year 3 the ability was pretty obvious. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

When are you going to let it go? You might as well get use to it, Macc is still here. Macc can still have a great draft this year, getting Sam & Herndon was a big WIN for his resume, no matter how you see it, even if you think he got lucky. 

I do think Macc had some bad drafts, we do have scouts that need to up their game. But, I do believe we all can get better at our jobs, I think Gase & Williams know the types of players they want. We definitely won't dismiss the offense as much with Bowles jettisoned. I do think in an equal power structure Bowles influence was all over this team, similar to Rex telling Coples he's picking him if he's there. I truly believe that history will prove Todd Bowles was one of the worst   HCs in our history. 14-34 the last 3 years WITHOUT FITZ-DECKER-MARSHALL. 

 

I'll let it go when I stop seeing these ridiculous posts that suggest every pick on defense was due to a HC flexing his power over the GM.

They had an equal power structure in terms of one not reporting to the other, and that each reports to the owner. For some reason you (and others; it isn't just you) have convinced themselves that this therefore means the HC ran the draft. The "equal" HC ran the draft about as much as the "equal" GM ran the game plan, practices, and the final roster cuts. 

It's a fairy tale that suggests being equal really means "majority one-sided" when it's convenient for the storyteller.

[Sperm Edwards]

@Jetster 

Bad HCs - like Bowles, whom I'm certainly no fan of in a HC capacity and wasn't even during 2015's short lived love-in for him - can still coach their way to winning seasons with rosters good enough to be consistently competitive. Similarly, even good HCs coach their way to losing seasons when they don't have rosters that are up to par (e.g. Payton/Brees recently went 7-9 for 4 of 5 seasons). This is the norm FAR more than the fairy tale that suggests the Jets had playoff-caliber teams these past 3 seasons but we sucked chiefly due to poor coaching. 

Rex told Coples? Lol bfd. Because you desire it to be the narrative, you take this to automatically infer it was him commanding the draft. The obviously more likely scenario was Rex, a HC with clear personal insecurity issues (whatever anyone thinks of him good or bad as a coach), opened his big fat mouth to share a private team decision that was intended to remain secret. IIRC he did the same thing with Tavon Austin before the Rams traded up to take him, and StL probably moved to leapfrog us in no small part because of Rex's mouth.

Regardless, you are confusing correlation with causation. A coach known to have a big mouth, communicating the team's internal discussions, doesn't causally mean he has exerted his will over a dissenting GM. I don't know why you'd conclude that. He openly got 1 pick per draft later in the draft 4-7 (e.g. Conner, Boyd, etc.).

Did Rex have an influence/input as to whom we drafted with other picks? I'm certain he did, as all teams' HCs contribute/comment on such things. But you're making an additional leap that isn't there, which is denying it's still ultimately the GM's decision in the end. Just like Rex wanted no part of Stephen Hill and also blabbed that bit publicly as well, which reinforced that he makes his opinion known to his GM, and such input is there for the GM to follow or disregard entirely as he sees fit.

You've conveniently positioned it so any pick you like is due to Maccagnan but any you don't like are due to Bowles. I get why it's attractive to want to believe it, but that doesn't make it so, and the evidence and any leaks point to otherwise (e.g. like Rex/Hill above, I hardly think Bowles wanted to draft Hackenberg in round 2 in his 2nd year). 

The reality is coaches and GMs (or teams in general) tell prospects things like this quite commonly, even when it doesn't happen. You don't hear about it often because players (especially 1st round picks) only talk about how excited they are about the teams that did draft them, and it's poor form/PR to say, "I thought the Jets were going to draft me because they said indicated they would if I was there." Rosen was clearly given enough hints at team plans to feel he wouldn't last past slot #3 (indicating the Jets would have taken him and not Allen if the Giants took a QB, fwiw). Meanwhile he dropped down to #10 and felt betrayed by multiple teams who'd obviously indicated they liked him more than they showed when it was pick time. 

[Jetster]

27 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

@Jetster 

Bad HCs - like Bowles, whom I'm certainly no fan of in a HC capacity and wasn't even during 2015's short lived love-in for him - can still coach their way to winning seasons with rosters good enough to be consistently competitive. Similarly, even good HCs coach their way to losing seasons when they don't have rosters that are up to par (e.g. Payton/Brees recently went 7-9 for 4 of 5 seasons). This is the norm FAR more than the fairy tale that suggests the Jets had playoff-caliber teams these past 3 seasons but we sucked chiefly due to poor coaching. 

Rex told Coples? Lol bfd. Because you desire it to be the narrative, you take this to automatically infer it was him commanding the draft. The obviously more likely scenario was Rex, a HC with clear personal insecurity issues (whatever anyone thinks of him good or bad as a coach), opened his big fat mouth to share a private team decision that was intended to remain secret. IIRC he did the same thing with Tavon Austin before the Rams traded up to take him, and StL probably moved to leapfrog us in no small part because of Rex's mouth.

Regardless, you are confusing correlation with causation. A coach known to have a big mouth, communicating the team's internal discussions, doesn't causally mean he has exerted his will over a dissenting GM. I don't know why you'd conclude that. He openly got 1 pick per draft later in the draft 4-7 (e.g. Conner, Boyd, etc.).

Did Rex have an influence/input as to whom we drafted? I'm certain he did, as all teams' HCs contribute/comment on such things. But you're making an additional leap that isn't there, which is denying it's still ultimately the GM's decision in the end. Just like Rex wanted no part of Stephen Hill and also blabbed that bit publicly as well, which reinforced that he makes his opinion known to his GM, and such input is there for the GM to follow or disregard entirely as he sees fit.

You've conveniently positioned it so any pick you like is due to Maccagnan but any you don't like are due to Bowles. I get why it's attractive to want to believe it, but that doesn't make it so, and the evidence and any leaks point to otherwise (e.g. like Rex/Hill above, I hardly think Bowles wanted to draft Hackenberg in round 2 in his 2nd year). 

The reality is coaches and GMs (or teams in general) tell prospects things like this quite commonly, even when it doesn't happen. You don't hear about it often because players (especially 1st round picks) only talk about how excited they are about the teams that did draft them, and it's poor form/PR to say, "I thought the Jets were going to draft me because they said indicated they would if I was there." Rosen was clearly given enough hints at team plans to feel he wouldn't last past slot #3 (indicating the Jets would have taken him and not Allen if the Giants took a QB, fwiw). Meanwhile he dropped down to #10 and felt betrayed by multiple teams who'd obviously indicated they liked him more than they showed when it was pick time. 

Obviously the GM for the Saints had a FEW BAD YEARS hence their going 7-9 4 out of 5 seasons. But, they had a stellar draft in 2017 & it turned them around. This false narrative that your spinning which is MACC sucks & Bowles didn't have a disproportionate say in the draft & wasn't a defensive leaning idiot I believe is total BS!

So we have differing opinions & truth be told Macc is still here & there is nothing you can do to change that. So, I'm hoping he has a great free agency & draft and the NY Jets head into the season with a better offensive line, some offensive weapons & a better pass rush and Sam Darnold proves to be a star under Gase coaching & Williams lights a fire under these underachievers on this teams azzes.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Obviously the GM for the Saints had a FEW BAD YEARS hence their going 7-9 4 out of 5 seasons. But, they had a stellar draft in 2017 & it turned them around. This false narrative that your spinning which is MACC sucks & Bowles didn't have a disproportionate say in the draft & wasn't a defensive leaning idiot I believe is total BS!

So we have differing opinions & truth be told Macc is still here & there is nothing you can do to change that. So, I'm hoping he has a great free agency & draft and the NY Jets head into the season with a better offensive line, some offensive weapons & a better pass rush and Sam Darnold proves to be a star under Gase coaching & Williams lights a fire under these underachievers on this teams azzes.

Without even realizing it, you've automatically gravitated to a poor roster being the GM's fault as to results in New Orleans but the HC's fault as to power in NY? You want to talk spin, well that is some major spin there.

No I don't think he had a disproportionate say, but I take for granted Bowles is more likely to tout prospects in his area of experience more than the area where he lacks it. What I don't agree with is your leap that he therefore had veto-power say over the picks when it suits the purposes of a fan's argument.

Did Bowles want or not want Hackenberg? How about Darnold? D.Smith? Herndon? The only leak as to a player Bowles wanted and didn't get was Kamara; instead he got Stewart.

You want to paint this narrative that 1 pick away from 50:50 offense:defense is some type of smoking gun. Just like if the Jets go DT or DE with their first pick, it's quite clear you'd 100% have ascribed that pick to the prior HC he was still here.

If you want to believe it, that's perfectly fine. But don't get upset when everyone doesn't automatically believe each baseless conspiracy theory.

[rangerous]

38 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Obviously the GM for the Saints had a FEW BAD YEARS hence their going 7-9 4 out of 5 seasons. But, they had a stellar draft in 2017 & it turned them around. This false narrative that your spinning which is MACC sucks & Bowles didn't have a disproportionate say in the draft & wasn't a defensive leaning idiot I believe is total BS!

So we have differing opinions & truth be told Macc is still here & there is nothing you can do to change that. So, I'm hoping he has a great free agency & draft and the NY Jets head into the season with a better offensive line, some offensive weapons & a better pass rush and Sam Darnold proves to be a star under Gase coaching & Williams lights a fire under these underachievers on this teams azzes.

of course we want the jets to have a great draft.  and we want gase/williams/boyer to coach a really good team.  but that doesn't take away the bad draft picks mac has made in the past.  i think it's right to focus on these because he sure wasted a load of 2nd/3rd/4th round picks on players that really shouldn't have been picked at those levels.  how do we know?  mainly because none of those players are still on the team nor are they on another team's roster.  i do think mac was trying to draft players to fit into bowles defensive scheme.  i don't think bowles had a whole lot of influence as to the actual player being drafted.

as for free agency, i think once it became apparent hack/petty wasn't going to work and they had to rely on mccown then there was a real sense of tanking and not wasting a ton of money on free agents.  now there's some promise so maybe they will get some high profile/talent guys in here.

[Jetster]

32 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Without even realizing it, you've automatically gravitated to a poor roster being the GM's fault as to results in New Orleans but the HC's fault as to power in NY? You want to talk spin, well that is some major spin there.

No I don't think he had a disproportionate say, but I take for granted Bowles is more likely to tout prospects in his area of experience more than the area where he lacks it. What I don't agree with is your leap that he therefore had veto-power say over the picks when it suits the purposes of a fan's argument.

Did Bowles want or not want Hackenberg? How about Darnold? D.Smith? Herndon? The only leak as to a player Bowles wanted and didn't get was Kamara; instead he got Stewart.

You want to paint this narrative that 1 pick away from 50:50 offense:defense is some type of smoking gun. Just like if the Jets go DT or DE with their first pick, it's quite clear you'd 100% have ascribed that pick to the prior HC he was still here.

If you want to believe it, that's perfectly fine. But don't get upset when everyone doesn't automatically believe each baseless conspiracy theory.

Considering you almost have 43,000 posts I would imagine you've had your share of opinions & conspiracy theories. 

My point has always been that Macc has made some awful mistakes & Bowles sucked azz as a head coach, a talent evaluator & developing his roster. 

My point about the Saints GM is that he obviously had some bad years EVEN THOUGH he'd already had his QB in place (Brees). Then, out of blue he had a stellar draft & the same could happen for Macc this year. Who were the great players he could have taken where Lee was taken? Where Devin Smith was taken, where Leonard Williams was taken? We ended up with Sam Darnold which I'm happier about than had we taken Watson. Mahomes was on no ones radar at the 6th pick. So every team passing on Mahomes suck! I like the direction we're heading & it started with getting Bowles the hell out of here. 

I like the coaching choice of Gase, I like Williams, I like the Pollack choice, I like we kept our ST coach. I'm very optimistic & im thrilled to come away a franchise QB & starting TE. There are decent O lineman & edge rushers available in free agency & we might be in the sweet spot for a trade back & additional draft picks. 

[Losmeister]

On 2/10/2019 at 8:59 AM, Creepy Lurker said:

I wonder if we can bring in some cheap players that know out new defensive scheme and have worked with Gregg before. I’d be interested in those type of players like when Rex brought in Leonard, Scott, Marques Douglas. This way they have someone at every level of the defense that already knows the system. 

often overlooked was how leonards injury effed up the 2ndary. he was around teh ball ALL the time. 

[JustInFudge]

This has to be part of the construction.  They have too many holes to fill to only sign young up and coming players.

If I'm Mac, I go all out for 3-4 positions/players.  Bell, OL, WR, Edge or CB - the rest, just fill with roster fodder.  We've seen first hand how little they do to help you win ball games so stop gaps are critical to be somewhat competitive while you groom Sam.  

And it could work, if somehow all the new faces suddenly make Mac better at drafting good football players.  

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Rex told Coples? Lol bfd. Because you desire it to be the narrative, you take this to automatically infer it was him commanding the draft.

I get a kick out of Rex being all in on Coples.  There were plenty of reports at the time about the Jets looking to trade down.  They felt they could trade down (I think reports were to the Steelers) and get Irvin or Coples, both of whom they would have been happy with.  The Seahawks took Irvin, a surprise at the time, and the Jets got nervous and took Coples.  Too bad.  Meanwhile the Pats sitting at 27 and 31 traded up twice to 21 and 25 and took Chandler Jones and Don'ta Hightower.  

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The only leak as to a player Bowles wanted and didn't get was Kamara; instead he got Stewart.

I think Tunsil falls in this category as well. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Considering you almost have 43,000 posts I would imagine you've had your share of opinions & conspiracy theories. 

My point has always been that Macc has made some awful mistakes & Bowles sucked azz as a head coach, a talent evaluator & developing his roster. 

My point about the Saints GM is that he obviously had some bad years EVEN TOUGH he'd already had his QB in place (Brees). Then, out of blue he had a stellar draft & the same could happen for Macc this year. Who were the great players he could have taken where Lee was taken? Where Devin Smith was taken, where Leonard Williams was taken? We ended up with Sam Darnold which I'm happier about than had we taken Watson. Mahomes was on no ones radar at the 6th pick. So every team passing on Mahomes suck! I like the direction we're heading & it started with getting Bowles the hell out of here. 

I like the coaching choice of Gase, I like Williams, I like the Pollack choice, I like we kept our ST coach. I'm very optimistic & im thrilled to come away a franchise QB & starting TE. There are decent O lineman & edge rushers available in free agency & we might be in the sweet spot for a trade back & additional draft picks. 

Since you're lofting the accusation, name one conspiracy theory you believe you have seen out of me. That is, other than the notion that the GM makes the draft picks.

You're all over the place but I'll try to answer, but I like how you frame it as what "great" players he could have taken, as though great players would represent the only upgrades over the ones he did take. 

• 2016 he could have and should have traded up for a QB (just like 2 other teams did). We like to go on about how obvious/desperate we were for a QB in 2018 but we were just as desperate 2 years earlier. A full 2 NFL seasons wasted is glossed over like it's nothing at all.
• Where Devin Smith was taken at #37 I'm just looking around that pick (just ahead or just behind), and see far better and more useful players at #38 edge OLB Preston Smith (we went with Mauldin a round later), #41 TE Funchess, #43 ILB McKinney (problem was he stupidly brought back Harris and guaranteed him top 10 salary for 2 years); #49 G/C Morse.
• Also could have moved up a little (like the Giants moved from #40 to #33 for a 4th and a Mr.Irrelevant-level 7th to grab Collins) for #36 RB Yeldon, #34 T Donovan Smith, #33 S Landon Collins.
• BTW a round later we traded down from #70 for #82 and grabbed Mauldin instead of #86 David Johnson, #88 Danielle Hunter, #73 Tevin Coleman, #81 John Miller, or needed to move up 1 slot for #69 Lockett. There were players in that draft's first 2 days.
• Leonard Williams? He should have either traded down (my preference) or gone with an edge rusher in Beasley (at least had 1 stellar season), instead of taking the same position player the team took in round 1 in 2011, 2012, and 2013. Others liked Gurley at #6 (admittedly I wasn't among them). Trading down a bit could have netted another day 2 pick plus a LT prospect in Peat (though he was moved to guard) or RB Gordon, or trade way down for another 1st in 2016. If it's cherry picking, then it's no less cherry picking to specify which picks should have been used to select someone else. 

Getting rid of Bowles was necessary, but it's not necessarily a move in the right direction, as it leaves a door wide open for a 1 step forward 2 steps back outcome. It solidified Maccagnan as the GM for a minimum of 2 more years (probably at least 3), and had a major influence on the Jets settling for a HC the Dolphins just fired instead of the "big splash" hire the team bragged that fans should expect. If the Bills signed Gase while we signed say McCarthy or either Harbaugh or whomever was deemed the hottest college HC, you'd have been among the first in line to laugh at the Gase hire.

Me? I think he'll do about as well as the roster provided to him. I expect a bounce this year for multiple reasons.

1. First, because there isn't much lower the team could go, and Bowles sucked as a HC, so the bar is set pretty low.
2. Second, because the team is going to spend like it should have by now.
3. Third, because there's often a jolt when there's a coaching turnover (especially when the coach's personalities are so different).
4. Fourth, they're going to add yet another pair of high picks including one more at the very top.
5. Fifth, I don't expect their $15MM corner to miss a third of the season and then dog it after we'd been eliminated thereafter. Hopefully Maye can stay on the field as well. 
6. Sixth, and perhaps most of all, Darnold won't be just taking his lumps as a rookie QB behind a crappy OL throwing to receivers who were either injured, mailing it in, freaking bats*** crazy, working with draft picks that summer about to get cut; let alone a combination of all this.

Truth is I'd expect a bounce back if you suddenly gave all that to Bowles, too, even though I don't think he was a good HC. After that I'm more or less expecting a regression to his prior mean, and then after another year or two he and Macc will both get fired after wasting Darnold's cheap rookie contract. 

[RutgersJetFan]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

...name one conspiracy theory you believe you have seen.

You think that smoke coming from the engines of planes is just smoke bro?

[Sperm Edwards]

24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I get a kick out of Rex being all in on Coples.  There were plenty of reports at the time about the Jets looking to trade down.  They felt they could trade down (I think reports were to the Steelers) and get Irvin or Coples, both of whom they would have been happy with.  The Seahawks took Irvin, a surprise at the time, and the Jets got nervous and took Coples.  Too bad.  Meanwhile the Pats sitting at 27 and 31 traded up twice to 21 and 25 and took Chandler Jones and Don'ta Hightower.  

I think Tunsil falls in this category as well. 

I remember there was the leak about us looking to trade with the Giants for Tunsil, but because he was a player who'd only dropped because of a bs picture leak this was the Leonard Williams-esque "best overall prospect in the draft" and they wanted another 3rd round pick that Macc wouldn't part with.

It was foolish not so much because Tunsil has become Boselli Part II, but more because I'm sure if he was able to move up to #3 to take that same player he'd have done it in a heartbeat for the same compensation he balked at for #10. What's the difference, if this is the player you wanted? Young LTs with #1 overall ratings don't shake loose in FA and are hard to find later in the draft. We only had a temporary solution with Clady (whose full contract wasn't guaranteed, and one of the two could have been moved to RT anyway and cut Giacomini to recover his $5MM salary). 

Most of all, it would have saved him from the embarrassment of Hackenberg, and the team from enduring 2 seasons & offseasons of foolishly waiting for that bulb to un-dim.

I don't recall Bowles being the one so hot for Tunsil, though. Could be the case; I just don't remember that. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

You think that smoke coming from the engines of planes is just smoke bro?

OK, fine that's one. But name two.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

OK, fine that's one. But name two.

Continental ice wall. Look into it.

[varjet]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

And it could work, if somehow all the new faces suddenly make Mac better at drafting good football players.  

Mac won Executive of the Year with a combination of savvy and lucky moves which should have gotten the Jets into the playoffs when combined with their weak schedule.  

His bad drafting then undid him. The players were there.  You can do a redraft with good players that Mac passed up to take the stiffs he drafted.  Had Mac drafted better, the Jets record over the prior three years would have been much, much better.

He has yet to draft better.  Any of us could have traded the picks for Darnold.  Had the Giants not whiffed he would have taken Rosen or Allen, because he needed a QB.  He too would have been fired.  He then drafted Shepherd and had a moment of clarity with Herndon.  

The Johnsons should know by this time next year whether Mac's 2019 draft is good enough to save his job.