Kareem Hunt Signs with Browns

[14 in Green]

16 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

I'm sick of the thuggishness too, but in all honesty I don't know how much is an increase in the league's thugs and how much is that the players transgressions don't get covered up like they used to.  I remember reading about the ballplayers of the 50s and 60s, and when evaluating each other, they would often go into two categories:  How good the player was on the field, and how good the player was in a fight in a bar.  Ballplayers used to get into so many barfights that they all got a separate rep for that in addition to their worth during a game.  Frequently cops would let a ballplayer go because they figured it wasn't good for the kids to see their heroes aren't solid citizens.  There was a lot of covering up back then. 

 

I somewhat suspect the thuggishness has gotten worse since then, but the difference might not be quite as great as we think.

Remember when Jim Bouton's book Ball Four came out? It was a best seller that blew the lid off a lot of those "well kept secrets."

Not so much thuggery, but the squeaky clean image thing...

[14 in Green]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 2:07 PM, JetFaninMI said:

Well I thought he would be the Jets pick as well. I wanted them to draft him because I thought there was no way the Jets would have a shot at Sam. I watched every game Oklahoma played and thought he was legit. As soon he was drafted by the Browns my interest waned. Now I don't follow him more or less than any other player not on the teams I follow. I think Mayfield is a legit NFL QB and I will be interested in his progress but I won't go out of my way to follow his career. The only time I will be concerned about the Browns is when they play the Jets. So I agree with ya. Who cares about Baker Mayfield? Although I would love to see him beat out the Steelers in that division.

Here's the thing guys like you, me, and @joenamathwouldn'tcry have to realize. The Patriots, Steelers, and Chargers QBs are nearing the end of their careers. The new wave of teams we will be dealing with for the next decade in the AFC will led by guys like Mahomes and Mayfield among others (Allen, Jackson etc?). So we better start caring about Baker Mayfield.

If Darnold becomes what we hope, he's going to be linked with those other QBs the rest of his career. He will be judged on how he performs against them, and it won't only be in the head to head battles. We'll be battling them for playoff seeding, and even our front offices will be competing to surround these guys with the talent they need to succeed. So yeah, you better start caring about Baker Mayfield. He isn't going anywhere, and we're going to be dealing with him for a while.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Here's the thing guys like you, me, and @joenamathwouldn'tcry have to realize. The Patriots, Steelers, and Chargers QBs are nearing the end of their careers. The new wave of teams we will be dealing with for the next decade in the AFC will led by guys like Mahomes and Mayfield among others (Allen, Jackson etc?). So we better start caring about Baker Mayfield.

If Darnold becomes what we hope, he's going to be linked with  those  others the rest of his career. He will be judged on how he performs against them. It won't only be in the head to head battles either. We'll be battling them for playoff seeding, and even our front offices will be competing to surround these guys with the talent they need to succeed. So yeah, you better start caring about Baker Mayfield. He isn't going anywhere, and we're going to be dealing with him for a while.

I, for one, feel confident enough in Sam that it doesn't bother me one whit.  He's that good.  Bring it on!!!!

[14 in Green]

13 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I, for one, feel confident enough in Sam that it doesn't bother me one whit.  He's that good.  Bring it on!!!!

We might have one helluva ride the next 10-12 years, huh? Guys are age who stuck around with this team deserve one. LOL.

[jumpgo69]

32 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Here's the thing guys like you, me, and @joenamathwouldn'tcry have to realize. The Patriots, Steelers, and Chargers QBs are nearing the end of their careers. The new wave of teams we will be dealing with for the next decade in the AFC will led by guys like Mahomes and Mayfield among others (Allen, Jackson etc?). So we better start caring about Baker Mayfield.

If Darnold becomes what we hope, he's going to be linked with  those  others the rest of his career. He will be judged on how he performs against them. It won't only be in the head to head battles either. We'll be battling them for playoff seeding, and even our front offices will be competing to surround these guys with the talent they need to succeed. So yeah, you better start caring about Baker Mayfield. He isn't going anywhere, and we're going to be dealing with him for a while.

Really like your thought process.  I find it really exciting to see all this young talent enter the NFL over the last few years.  I feel qb play specifically was really lacking outside of a few exceptions for years.  Id say since 2016 the qbs drafted are really fun to watch.  Nothing wrong with Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Roethlisberger and perhaps a few others but the product overall was lackluster.  The haves and have nots appear to be changing minus Indy who lucked (no pun intended) into a great situation without dealing with time of bad or mediocre qb play.

We dont know how the 2018 class will fare yet but it looks very promising.  

Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Mahomes,  Watson, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen (I believe in him) and Jackson are really exciting to think about in terms of the near future of the NFL.

Just my .02

[jumpgo69]

As for Hunt.....a lot of Cle fans are not happy for obvious reasons.  I really dont know how remorseful Hunt truly is and as a person I can say I dont think he is an upstanding person but the NFL has allowed the likes of Jim Brown to play and turned a blind eye to it for years.  

The NFL is a business though and Dorsey made a calculated low risk business move much the same way Cincy did with Mixon and other teams have done over the years.  

I dont have daughters and so my logic may be viewed as bias because I truly want a good product.  I just hope Dorsey is right that Hunt is not going to repeat this behavior.  I know his family is basically a posterchild for setting dictates character but people do rise above that all the time.  I pray he hilds Hunt accountable and wont hesitate to release him at the first sign of reverting to that behavior.

The reason I believe Hunt chose Cleveland and at such a team friendly deal is because thats where he is from and wanted to play and also because of his relationship with Dorsey prior.  This is just an educated guess based off the small amount of information out there.

[JetFaninMI]

53 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Here's the thing guys like you, me, and @joenamathwouldn'tcry have to realize. The Patriots, Steelers, and Chargers QBs are nearing the end of their careers. The new wave of teams we will be dealing with for the next decade in the AFC will led by guys like Mahomes and Mayfield among others (Allen, Jackson etc?). So we better start caring about Baker Mayfield.

If Darnold becomes what we hope, he's going to be linked with those other QBs the rest of his career. He will be judged on how he performs against them, and it won't only be in the head to head battles. We'll be battling them for playoff seeding, and even our front offices will be competing to surround these guys with the talent they need to succeed. So yeah, you better start caring about Baker Mayfield. He isn't going anywhere, and we're going to be dealing with him for a while.

Dude the post was in reference to topics about Mayfield on a JETS message board.

[jack48]

12 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

I'm sick of the thuggishness too, but in all honesty I don't know how much is an increase in the league's thugs and how much is that the players transgressions don't get covered up like they used to.  I remember reading about the ballplayers of the 50s and 60s, and when evaluating each other, they would often go into two categories:  How good the player was on the field, and how good the player was in a fight in a bar.  Ballplayers used to get into so many barfights that they all got a separate rep for that in addition to their worth during a game.  Frequently cops would let a ballplayer go because they figured it wasn't good for the kids to see their heroes aren't solid citizens.  There was a lot of covering up back then. 

 

I somewhat suspect the thuggishness has gotten worse since then, but the difference might not be quite as great as we think.

If it was covered up back then, how would you know that it happened? I think you are just surmising.  True that football is a lot more popular now and gets way more coverage, but if you do not think todays football divas and steroid freaks are not more trouble....heck, that is a far easier assumption to make.

[kelticwizard]

12 hours ago, jack48 said:

If it was covered up back then, how would you know that it happened? I think you are just surmising. 

Books written after the fact.   Newspaper articles written about old players, many including quotes of how the players rated each other on fighting ability.  News articles I remember reading that didn't get much reaction but which frequently laid out what was happening.

 

Did you know the early AFL San Diego Chargers were the first pro football team to have a "strength coach"?  There were no assigned workouts back then, players lifted if they felt like it, and many players doubted the utility of weight training.  The Chargers were lauded for being forward looking.  Among the requirements of the "strength coach" was that the players had to take methedrine capsules before workouts and before the game.  The pills were in bowls distributed throughout the locker room, like candy dishes at a party-they were legal then.  This was in the papers in the seventies, little attention given.  Willie Mays used to keep a bottle of something in his locker room that he was seen drinking from.  Very likely some sort of speed.  Again-likely legal.  Who knows what these guys were taking at home, away from the locker room?

 

Rape?  These were highly charged men mostly in their twenties.  In the fifties and sixties, if a woman got raped, unless she was suddenly jumped by a stranger on the street or something similar, she was considered largely at fault.  People felt it was a young woman's responsibility to keep herself out of situations where she might get raped, or else she was "asking for it".   Date rape didn't exist as a concept yet.  It's fair to say that many players of the fifties and sixties got away with things that they would be charged for today.

As I stated before, I do think the level of thuggishness has gone up somewhat and that needs to be addressed.  But the old players were not, as a group, quite the squeaky clean guys they were publicly portrayed as.

[bla bla bla]

41 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Books written after the fact.   Newspaper articles written about old players, many including quotes of how the players rated each other on fighting ability.  News articles I remember reading that didn't get much reaction but which frequently laid out what was happening.

 

Did you know the early AFL San Diego Chargers were the first pro football team to have a "strength coach"?  There were no assigned workouts back then, players lifted if they felt like it, and many players doubted the utility of weight training.  The Chargers were lauded for being forward looking.  Among the requirements of the "strength coach" was that the players had to take methedrine capsules before workouts and before the game.  The pills were in bowls distributed throughout the locker room, like candy dishes at a party-they were legal then.  This was in the papers in the seventies, little attention given.  Willie Mays used to keep a bottle of something in his locker room that he was seen drinking from.  Very likely some sort of speed.  Again-likely legal.  Who knows what these guys were taking at home, away from the locker room?

 

Rape?  These were highly charged men mostly in their twenties.  In the fifties and sixties, if a woman got raped, unless she was suddenly jumped by a stranger on the street or something similar, she was considered largely at fault.  People felt it was a young woman's responsibility to keep herself out of situations where she might get raped, or else she was "asking for it".   Date rape didn't exist as a concept yet.  It's fair to say that many players of the fifties and sixties got away with things that they would be charged for today.

As I stated before, I do think the level of thuggishness has gone up somewhat and that needs to be addressed.  But the old players were not, as a group, quite the squeaky clean guys they were publicly portrayed as.

I think you him the nail on the head. I view military force in a similar light. We as humans have always slaughtered people for our own gain but Vietnam was the first war that the general public was able to see thanks to the evolution of news and film. I think we are seeing more issues now with NFL players moreso because EVERYONE has a platform not because players are inherently worse.