Would the Jets need to give up a 2019 pick for OBJ or AB?

[Philc1]

Brown over OBJ even with OBJ being younger.  Dude is a headcase who chokes in big games

[Matt39]

11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

come now these guys both produce even when double teamed and they make a lot of plays that make their QBs look a lot better than they perhaps are.

I can understand the concerns but if we draft a Wr high guess what will happen if he is good for a few years?  Diva city.

Also I am not so afraid that our QB is going to be mentally fragile and not be able to handle guys with some attitude.

You simply never get a shot at super talented players unless they have issues. 

If the price is right...

They produce in games they can get open in. If defenses want to take away a WR, most of the time they can. Aside from Hill(who even New England took away) these guys can be neutralized. Beckham especially. Brown got pissed because teams were doubling him and Ben just started going to Schuster. 

Beckham on the other hand is always hurt and doesnt seem all that into football anyways.

It really starts with the coaching. Tomlin is a cupcake and gets walked on. The Giants have kissed Beckham's ass since the beginning, creating these types of situations.

[Philc1]

Just now, Matt39 said:

They produce in games they can get open in. If defenses want to take away a WR, most of the time they can. Aside from Hill(who even New England took away) these guys can be neutralized. Beckham especially. Brown got pissed because teams were doubling him and Ben just started going to Schuster. 

Beckham on the other hand is always hurt and doesnt seem all that into football anyways.

Beckham is way too fragile physically and emotionally 

 

 

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Beckham is way too fragile physically and emotionally 

 

 

Pretty much. No coach is going to be able to handle that. If he's not getting the ball he's melting down. His efficiency numbers have steadily decreased too.

[TokyoJetsFan]

This is too obvious, but Pitt and Giants should work out some kind of trade for each others headaches.  Keeps them out of conference and fresh starts for both.  I guess Pitt would have to throw in some extra with age difference.

[Philc1]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Pretty much. No coach is going to be able to handle that. If he's not getting the ball he's melting down. His efficiency numbers have steadily decreased too.

OBJ’s temper tantrums over Saquon Barkley getting attention last year pretty much did it for me.  He’s a clown and a cancer

[Bocajetfan]

1 hour ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Flacco and tannehil? No team is investing their future for those guys. They're going to be signed as backups. Foles is a guy that a team like the giants/Broncos/jaguars might sign but could still draft a QB to study under him for a year or 2

None are the future but more than serviceable for the short term. Haskins has value that’s it for this class do you really see the need to trade up to 3 for a player that should be available at 10 or higher? Just don’t see anyone making a legit offer for the 3rd pick. Just bad timing nobody worth moving up for.

[greenwave81]

8 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

I don't want Brown on this team, he's great at football, but it almost seems like he's self destructing before our eyes.

OBJ on the other hand is a player the Giants would NEVER trade to us. If this were Bizzaro World and they offered him, I'd take him in a second. I'd swap 1st's this year and give them next years 2nd or 3rd to get it done. He's a diva, but he supports his QB, and only acts out in frustration when losing. To me he's worth the attention his "look at me" behavior brings.  

Swap 1sts, and that's it if it's me as GM.

They want to get rid of him, and you're gonna assume a lot of cap space (improving the NYG cap space).  Plus, you'd have to assume the NYG are trading up for a QB, or else they wouldn't even consider it.

But it ain't gonna happen.

[Smashmouth]

3 hours ago, k-met57 said:

teams win SB's...teams with guys like Dez, AB, and OBJ don't. They are ME first players, they make other players make plays that are best for them, and not plays that are conducive to winning.

to answer your question, are arent a ton of teams that have won SB's with Diva, me first WR's.

First things first I didn't ask the question I answered it. Also just to clear things up I couldn't give a sh*t less about Diva WR's but there are plenty of SB winners over the years that had them as part of the "TEAM" and the team was strong enough to get past that disruption. I didn't need a lecture on why certain Diva WR's are detrimental to the team concept and I'm not looking for the Jets to Sign OBJ or AB . With all that being said you should look at the history of the NFL and you will find plenty of Diva WR's that either made it too a SB or won SB's some of those teams were dynasties who won with Diva WR's 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

4 hours ago, Jet9 said:

Separate topic, but I dont think Bell quit on his team at all. In fact, I think he did more for current and future players than Kaep could ever dream of, despite any narratives to the contrary. 

I don't think his Steeler Teammates, primarily his offensive linemen would agree with you on  the not "quitting on them" point. .Neither would the fans, or coaches.  Exactly what did he do for current and future players by sitting out the season?  He's no Curt Flood, that's for sure.  His "protest" accomplished nothing for other players, and probably will cost him in the end too.  To this point, other than the "narrative"  it has cost him one year of his career and 14.5 Million dollars, to be exact.

[14 in Green]

2 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Swap 1sts, and that's it if it's me as GM.

They want to get rid of him, and you're gonna assume a lot of cap space (improving the NYG cap space).  Plus, you'd have to assume the NYG are trading up for a QB, or else they wouldn't even consider it.

But it ain't gonna happen.

Yeah, OK.  Your point is well taken. We both agree the trade isn't happening, but I think you thought out the trade value thing better then I did.

[k-met57]

First things first I didn't ask the question I answered it. Also just to clear things up I couldn't give a sh*t less about Diva WR's but there are plenty of SB winners over the years that had them as part of the "TEAM" and the team was strong enough to get past that disruption. I didn't need a lecture on why certain Diva WR's are detrimental to the team concept and I'm not looking for the Jets to Sign OBJ or AB . With all that being said you should look at the history of the NFL and you will find plenty of Diva WR's that either made it too a SB or won SB's some of those teams were dynasties who won with Diva WR's 

You reach, I preach...

[Jet9]

22 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I don't think his Steeler Teammates, primarily his offensive linemen would agree with you on  the not "quitting on them" point. .Neither would the fans, or coaches.  Exactly what did he do for current and future players by sitting out the season?  He's no Curt Flood, that's for sure.  His "protest" accomplished nothing for other players, and probably will cost him in the end too.  To this point, other than the "narrative"  it has cost him one year of his career and 14.5 Million dollars, to be exact.

Agree to disagree. I think he set a precedent for future franchise tag players. Politics aside, the NFLPA is weak. Maybe this lights some kind of fire. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

8 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Agree to disagree. I think he set a precedent for future franchise tag players. Politics aside, the NFLPA is weak. Maybe this lights some kind of fire. 

You are right about the NFLPA being weak, but I don't see how this helps them in the franchise tag battle.  First point is, some players actually like the tag.  It's not the "bad" deal it's made out to be.  Secondly it is naïve to think in this day of the selfish athlete that enough of them would band together and sit out a season of football, without compensation, to "take one for the cause".  If they want it bargained out of the next collective bargaining agreement that is a different story.  But that too, would come at a price.

[adb280z]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

This guy gets it.

Ya’ll ever notice that these lunatic diva WRs never actually win anything? 

 

If you're looking only at Super Bowls remember one team dominates that category in the last decade but Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress would both be considered lunatic diva WRs and they both won.

[choon328]

9 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

Slightly off-topic, but would you consider a similar move I proposed for AB to get Bell should Pitt tag him again? I wouldn't only because I value RBs differently, but just wondering your thoughts?

The Steelers could transition tag him but that only means they have a right to match any offer. You wouldn't have to trade for him bc they're not entitled to any compensation if someone signs him. That's why them putting the transition tag on him is pointless.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

He's debunking the post asking "When was the last time a team won the Supper Bowl with a diva WR."

 

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I know what he thought he was doing.  But a players first name has nothing in common with being a diva not winning.  It's actually pretty strange and an useless anology.  As I said, Brett, Peyton, on and on we can go.

 

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

The problem is that he didn’t actually debunk anything

I was pointing out the difference between correlation and causation.

And also poking fun at the “no true Scotsman” parallels with the argument that “no diva WRs” have won anything, which @joewilly12 already did brilliantly with one picture.

[choon328]

5 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

Yes, it does.

Agree...the Flacco deal cost us a potential trading partner.

The Flacco deal benefited the Jets in my opinion. We need to hope that all of these veteran QB's like Foles, Flacco and Bridgewater go to teams outside of the top 10 bc that'll put even more pressure on the Giants and Jags to go up and get their #1 guy. Best case scenario is no QB goes 1 or 2 and the Jags want to leap ahead of the Giants to get "their guy". They'd have to give us their 1st, 2nd, Both 3rds and a 2020 2nd. Then we'd be in a perfect spot for an offensive lineman or WR at 7 while also now having 6 picks in the top 3 rounds. To me that would be the ideal scenario.

Although I have a feeling the Jaguars will use their early 3rd and trade for Foles. Then we have to hope a team like Washington tries to come up ahead of the Giants to get their guy. Snyder is very aggressive, he did it with RG3 albeit he was closer to the top in that draft. It would cost them probably their first 3 rounds this year plus the 3rd round comp pick they're projected to get for Cousins and then their first 3 rounds in 2020 but he's crazy enough to do it. Especially with Smith out next year and to screw over the Giants.

[choon328]

Ideally one of the WR's separates himself at the combine and the Jets take him #3. If Metcalf tests really well in the agility drops and the 40 I think he's the pick at #3 if not sooner. 6'4" 230 lbs and if he runs sub 4.5 that puts him in Calvin Johnson territory as far as size/speed combo. That would be huge for Sam. Just like it was for Matt Ryan when they went up to get Julio.

[14 in Green]

27 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The Flacco deal benefited the Jets in my opinion. We need to hope that all of these veteran QB's like Foles, Flacco and Bridgewater go to teams outside of the top 10 bc that'll put even more pressure on the Giants and Jags to go up and get their #1 guy. Best case scenario is no QB goes 1 or 2 and the Jags want to leap ahead of the Giants to get "their guy". They'd have to give us their 1st, 2nd, Both 3rds and a 2020 2nd. Then we'd be in a perfect spot for an offensive lineman or WR at 7 while also now having 6 picks in the top 3 rounds. To me that would be the ideal scenario.

Although I have a feeling the Jaguars will use their early 3rd and trade for Foles. Then we have to hope a team like Washington tries to come up ahead of the Giants to get their guy. Snyder is very aggressive, he did it with RG3 albeit he was closer to the top in that draft. It would cost them probably their first 3 rounds this year plus the 3rd round comp pick they're projected to get for Cousins and then their first 3 rounds in 2020 but he's crazy enough to do it. Especially with Smith out next year and to screw over the Giants.

Snyder is crazy, but he's not that crazy. A QB will be there at 15. More likely they look for a veteran stopgap. I don't think Gruden has enough job security  to tank or a year to develop a rookie QB.

If I were the Skins GM, I'd look to extend Gruden. They got a bad break when Smith got hurt, they were leading their division. I wouldn't go big for a QB this year, get a guy like Bridgewater, and look for my future QB where every body else will. The 2020, 2021 drafts.

[Jet Nut]

So now Don Maynard was a diva?

LOL

[14 in Green]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So now Don Maynard was a diva?

LOL

Who knows if joe willy really believes that? Do we really want to find out? 

As I said earlier, I think he just likes to post pictures in threads. 

[Scoop24]

12 hours ago, Paradis said:

Sorry, stopped reading when you mentioned two divas that i don't want anywhere near Sam right now.

This is his team, and those two self-involved pricks will make the entire show about them.

hell no

I would bet Sam would love to play with either guy tbh

[More Cowbell]

16 hours ago, Paradis said:

Sorry, stopped reading when you mentioned two divas that i don't want anywhere near Sam right now.

This is his team, and those two self-involved pricks will make the entire show about them.

hell no

I don't  think OBJ will be that bad. On the Jets he would be the focus of the O and his biggest complaint  on the Giants is Eli. Things would be different here

 Also I think Gase could handle either one of them. 

[neckdemon]

16 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Honestly I'd give up #3 for Odell straight up. Even if he is just here for the duration of his current contract that's all we need. Our window is while Sam is on his rookie deal.

Odell's issue is Eli IMO, if he had a halfway decent QB I think he'd be happy.

thats silly. if darnold ends up a legit franchise qb the window is the 15 years you get to have him for as long as he stays healthy

[Ghost]

I completely understand why everyone is against having these players in the locker room. However, I’d take OBJ. When was the last time the Jets have had a player of his caliber? Never. 

Giants will not trade him. 

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

thats silly. if darnold ends up a legit franchise qb the window is the 15 years you get to have him for as long as he stays healthy

Yeah I mean there is a chance of winning sure but the best chance for us to win is before Sam gets paid.

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

First things first I didn't ask the question I answered it. Also just to clear things up I couldn't give a sh*t less about Diva WR's but there are plenty of SB winners over the years that had them as part of the "TEAM" and the team was strong enough to get past that disruption. I didn't need a lecture on why certain Diva WR's are detrimental to the team concept and I'm not looking for the Jets to Sign OBJ or AB . With all that being said you should look at the history of the NFL and you will find plenty of Diva WR's that either made it too a SB or won SB's some of those teams were dynasties who won with Diva WR's 

Name those diva WRs who are disruptive to a team that have won SBs.  Plenty?  Should be easy.  Dez, no.  Chad, no.  OBJ no.  AB, no.  TO, no.  Moss, no.  A dynasty with a diva, who? 

[playtowinthegame]

34 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Name those diva WRs who are disruptive to a team that have won SB

Santonio Holmes did. 

 

Edit: Forgot to mention Keyshawn Johnson, Michael Irvin, Andre Rison, Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress. 

[PepPep]

20 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

Glazer is predicting Giants will trade OBJ this off-season. We already know about the issues in Pitt with AB.

We know how badly we need a #1 WR but have too many hoIes to fill to give up picks this year.

Instead of giving up any draft assets (picks) in 2019, could the Jets offer to trade back from #3 with either Pitt or the NYG (maybe going all the way back to their 2nd round pick) and maybe throw in a 2020 pick.

According to the Draft Pick Value Chart, moving back to #20 (Pitt) equals about the #10 (2200-850 = 1350). Moving from 3 to 6 (NYG) equals a low first rounder (2200-1600 = 700). Going from #3 back to #37 (2nd round NYG) equals a high first round pick (2200-530 = 1,670).

What do you guys think?

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

 

I think the value for Brown and OBJ are very different. 

Brown is considered by many to be much more of a locker room nuisance. He is also 30 vs OBJ who is 26. 

I think the Steelers will be WAY more willing to part with AB than the Giants with OBJ. So if the Jets want AB they could probably get him for not much more than their 3rd round pick. I mean, AB does not want to be in Pitt and pretty much has done everything apart from demanding a trade for them to jettison him. 

OBJ has been pretty quiet and has not talked much about wanting out of NY. The Giants have invested long term in him and I don;t see why they would want to get rid of him, especially if they are about to draft a QB. However, it WOULD be tempting for them to move up to 3 if they were interested in a QB and felt like someone else could trade up past them for the same guy. But they may want more than just the Jets #3 pick, they may want their 3rd as well. 

So, let's assume both were available via trade. Do you give up an early 3rd rounder for an aging diva WR who could very well be a locker room cancer (AB). Or do you move down to 6 AND give up an early 3rd for a 26yr old diva WR who most likely will NOT be a locker room cancer. Both have massive contracts and both will want the ball and both have some injury history and yet, both are superstars. 

Personally I'd go with OBJ. Just b/c he is younger and moving down to 6 will not hurt the Jets that much, they should still be able to get an impact player.  

[Jet Nut]

16 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Santonio Holmes did. 

 

Edit: Forgot to mention Keyshawn Johnson, Michael Irvin, Andre Rison, Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress. 

Holmes, yes, give you that one.  But Irvin, Rison, Ward and Buress?  Things like shooting yourself in the leg doesnt make you a diva or disruptive.  

[Barry McCockinner]

10 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Who knows if joe willy really believes that? Do we really want to find out? 

As I said earlier, I think he just likes to post pictures in threads. 

Namath was a diva though. OG

[CTJetsFan]

27 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I think the value for Brown and OBJ are very different. 

Brown is considered by many to be much more of a locker room nuisance. He is also 30 vs OBJ who is 26. 

I think the Steelers will be WAY more willing to part with AB than the Giants with OBJ. So if the Jets want AB they could probably get him for not much more than their 3rd round pick. I mean, AB does not want to be in Pitt and pretty much has done everything apart from demanding a trade for them to jettison him. 

OBJ has been pretty quiet and has not talked much about wanting out of NY. The Giants have invested long term in him and I don;t see why they would want to get rid of him, especially if they are about to draft a QB. However, it WOULD be tempting for them to move up to 3 if they were interested in a QB and felt like someone else could trade up past them for the same guy. But they may want more than just the Jets #3 pick, they may want their 3rd as well. 

So, let's assume both were available via trade. Do you give up an early 3rd rounder for an aging diva WR who could very well be a locker room cancer (AB). Or do you move down to 6 AND give up an early 3rd for a 26yr old diva WR who most likely will NOT be a locker room cancer. Both have massive contracts and both will want the ball and both have some injury history and yet, both are superstars. 

Personally I'd go with OBJ. Just b/c he is younger and moving down to 6 will not hurt the Jets that much, they should still be able to get an impact player.  

If that 3rd (or 2nd rounder if necessary) was a 2020 pick, I would definitely consider it.

The question I was asking in the OP is: could a deal be made/structured for OBJ (or less so AB) where the Jets didn't lose/give up a pick in the 2019 draft?

Swapping #3 and giving a 2020 2nd rounder for OBJ & #6 would be an example

 

[Fantasy Island]

22 hours ago, maury77 said:

Would I trade back to 6 for just OBJ? Hell yeah. 

OHHHH, thought I read trade back to 6 for just A BJ?  Nope.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Holmes, yes, give you that one.  But Irvin, Rison, Ward and Buress?  Things like shooting yourself in the leg doesnt make you a diva or disruptive.  

No true Scotsman!