Interesting overall take on rebuild/ Benny Snell highlights

[GREENBEAN]

Mornin...

As I ramp up my yearly attempt at college player knowledge, I found a vid of a pretty comprehensive overall rebuild strategy. Some interesting moves suggested here including the initial trade back with Jax.  I also liked the idea of Benny Snell as a 3rd rd RB selection. I'm very curious to hear what some of the better talent evaluators we have at JN think of this guy's take and some of the players he would choose. A bit long, but worth the time IMO.   Anyway, I enjoyed the vid. I'll also attach a Benny Snell highlight vid.  

 

 

https://youtu.be/7sL05fVIQK0

 

 

 

[bealeb319]

I think a trade back with Jax where we take on the Blake bortles contract for picks and a player would be our best case scenario and for that reason it will not happen. I expect that any team willing to move up is going to try and get pick 1 or 2 and will leave us drafting bpa. We could end up with an edge rusher and that is okay.

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[k-met57]

i mentioned Snell in the draft forum before, i think he is going to be a very productive back that could be had in day 2-3 potentially. lots to like about him.

[GREENBEAN]

9 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

i mentioned Snell in the draft forum before, i think he is going to be a very productive back that could be had in day 2-3 potentially. lots to like about him.

I looked him up yesterday too. It may have been your post that led me to him actually.  I like what I see from the highlight vids. He seems like he has a solid build and runs strong north and south. He can be caught from behind, so he's not the absolute burner some other guys are, but he's fast enough when adding his ability to break the first contact.  He's someone I wouldn't mind seeing us draft with one of our 3rd rd picks. 

[k-met57]

8 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I looked him up yesterday too. It may have been your post that led me to him actually.  I like what I see from the highlight vids. He seems like he has a solid build and runs strong north and south. He can be caught from behind, so he's not the absolute burner some other guys are, but he's fast enough when adding his ability to break the first contact.  He's someone I wouldn't mind seeing us draft with one of our 3rd rd picks. 

he would instantly better then any back we have had in years.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

44 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

I think a trade back with Jax where we take on the Blake bortles contract for picks and a player would be our best case scenario and for that reason it will not happen. I expect that any team willing to move up is going to try and get pick 1 or 2 and will leave us drafting bpa. We could end up with an edge rusher and that is okay.

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Bortles would be an interesting back up, if they can redo his contract, he has all the measurables, made the mistakes, could help Sam and maybe the team for a game or two - could be an interesting trade chip if he makes (or looks like he makes) a turn around 

[varjet]

52 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

I think a trade back with Jax where we take on the Blake bortles contract for picks and a player would be our best case scenario and for that reason it will not happen. I expect that any team willing to move up is going to try and get pick 1 or 2 and will leave us drafting bpa. We could end up with an edge rusher and that is okay.

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John Lynch as opposed to Mac is smart.  He also did this move before.  He will know that the number 2 player in this draft is Hoskins.  He has also drafted too many DL. Bosa is the elite player-the Myles Garrett.   I think Josh Allen will be good but only on a 3-4 team.  He is too slight to have his hand in the dirt all the time in the NFL.  Just our luck to switch to a 4-3 when there is finally a 3-4 edge to pick.  The 49ers will trade down  

Let Gregg talk to Mac and figure out the best defender at 3, or maybe someone trades up for Kyler. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, bealeb319 said:

I think a trade back with Jax where we take on the Blake bortles contract for picks and a player would be our best case scenario and for that reason it will not happen. I expect that any team willing to move up is going to try and get pick 1 or 2 and will leave us drafting bpa. We could end up with an edge rusher and that is okay.

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Bortles only has $6.5M guaranteed left on his deal. It's not the Osweiler situation. Jax isn't going to give up something extra just to get out of his contract, they'll just cut him before his roster bonus is due. 

[Patriot Killa]

Snell is definitely not a burner by any means but his balance on contact is special, he has nice patience, often falls forward, power back oriented but surprisingly a bit more shifty than expected. Good vision and a vicious stiff arm that puts defenders on their ass. He also has shown the ability to catch out of the backfield. 

Wont call him a complete back out of the gate but has the ability to develop into that. He’s a 3 down back out of the gate though. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Love it!!!  Offense, offense, offense!!!!

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

2 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Bortles would be an interesting back up, if they can redo his contract, he has all the measurables, made the mistakes, could help Sam and maybe the team for a game or two - could be an interesting trade chip if he makes (or looks like he makes) a turn around 

I am totally against acquiring Bortles.  Why would you want him?  His youth and previous track record point to him being dissatisfied with a back-role.  His inaccurate nature also is ill fitting for reserve duties.  Then there  is the contract.  If he is cut before June 1st the cap hit would be 16.5 million dollars, the worst in NFL history.  If he signs with another team {us} the Jaguars would save 6.5 million of that. We would be on the hook for 6.5 million.  Do you want to pay him that?  I don.t.  That's still 10 million in dead cap for them. They're stuck.  This is his sixth year in the league, so the measurables aren't as attractive as they were at one time.  For him to be a rescue case, and a "chip", he would have to play.  How?  Do we bank on Sam getting hurt for this to happen?  Teddy Bridgewater was a great situation because he knew the score.  He was a free agent, was coming off an injury, had a friendly contract, and knew that he'd likely be here short term.  Brock Osweiller is  the backup prospect for our Jets, if he is there for the right price.  He knows Gase system, knows the nuances of being a backup, and has experience in that capacity.  Let's not make this a complicated issue.  The Jaguars have already  done that, to themselves.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

4 hours ago, varjet said:

John Lynch as opposed to Mac is smart.  He also did this move before.  He will know that the number 2 player in this draft is Hoskins.  He has also drafted too many DL. Bosa is the elite player-the Myles Garrett.   I think Josh Allen will be good but only on a 3-4 team.  He is too slight to have his hand in the dirt all the time in the NFL.  Just our luck to switch to a 4-3 when there is finally a 3-4 edge to pick.  The 49ers will trade down  

Let Gregg talk to Mac and figure out the best defender at 3, or maybe someone trades up for Kyler. 

John Lynch is smart.  Let's see how smart.  He drafted Solomon Thomas #3 overall in the 2017 draft.  Not smart.  Later in the same round {#31}, he drafted Reuben Foster, released due to a propensity for violence and getting arrested.  Not smart.  He signed free agents Malcolm Smith, missed full season and underperformed in another:  Pierre Garcon, "washed up" and expensive:  Arik Armstead, 9million dollars, hurt and marginally productive:  Jerrick McKinnon, missed 2018 season due to a torn ACL, Smart?  Not so far.  The one "smart" move made by acquiring Jimmy Garoppolo, was a "gift" courtesy of Bill Bellicheat.  He then did the "Unsmart" thing by making Garoppolo the highest paid player in the league at the time of the signing.  He guaranteed him 61.2 million dollars over the first two years of the deal, the first of which has already been lost due to injury. 10 million more than it would have cost to franchise him.  Garoppolo, while admittedly talented, had to that point 7 starts and 12 touchdowns in his 4 year career. That also doesn't appear too smart.  Macc, who's disasters have been well documented, has thankfully not been as "smart" as John Lynch.  Good thing this "smart" GM isn't ours.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I am totally against acquiring Bortles.  Why would you want him?  His youth and previous track record point to him being dissatisfied with a back-role.  His inaccurate nature also is ill fitting for reserve duties.  Then there  is the contract.  If he is cut before June 1st the cap hit would be 16.5 million dollars, the worst in NFL history.  If he signs with another team {us} the Jaguars would save 6.5 million of that. We would be on the hook for 6.5 million.  Do you want to pay him that?  I don.t.  That's still 10 million in dead cap for them. They're stuck.  This is his sixth year in the league, so the measurables aren't as attractive as they were at one time.  For him to be a rescue case, and a "chip", he would have to play.  How?  Do we bank on Sam getting hurt for this to happen?  Teddy Bridgewater was a great situation because he knew the score.  He was a free agent, was coming off an injury, had a friendly contract, and knew that he'd likely be here short term.  Brock Osweiller is  the backup prospect for our Jets, if he is there for the right price.  He knows Gase system, knows the nuances of being a backup, and has experience in that capacity.  Let's not make this a complicated issue.  The Jaguars have already  done that, to themselves.

Good points, I was thinking Bortles at 6.5m and a draft pick vs McCown at $10m so the idea was interesting at first, agree his overall stats are not good but he has played well in spurts, AFCCG, maybe some time on the bench is needed

Agree Brock is a much better option if he can signed to a reasonable deal 

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

15 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Good points, I was thinking Bortles at 6.5m and a draft pick vs McCown at $10m so the idea was interesting at first, agree his overall stats are not good but he has played well in spurts, AFCCG, maybe some time on the bench is needed

Agree Brock is a much better option if he can signed to a reasonable deal 

 

Funny thing.  Until the Azzhole Doug Moron and Jalen " I am the best ever, everyone else sucks" Ramsey turned me against the Jaguars, I rooted for Bortles to do well.  I rooted for them to go to and win the Super Bowl that year. I also have a  soft spot for Coughlin, the way he was treated by the Jints on the way out of town, he deserved better.  Us Jet fans had little other choice, biggest underdog from AFC always gets my vote. It always seems like one step forward, two steps back with Bortles,  Sometimes within the duration of a single drive. I honestly feel bad for the guy, that is, until I remember the  contract.  He'll get over it.  I wish that Davis Webb had it within him to seize the backup job, but don't think it's a realistic expectation.  We'll need a seasoned, capable, backup and Osweiller fits that bill to a "T".  Regards.

 

[Paradis]

I guess we're just abandoning the draft forum. 

 

Snell is underappreciated simply because he isn't a burner, or flashy. He's probably not going to rip off 60 yard'ers like Barkley, doesn't have that level of speed + athleticism... HOWEVER, you will get a complete 3 down back who will always churn out yards, is better than advertised at the LOS, has some wiggle and gets the tough yardage. 

Somewhere between Mark Ingram and James Connor --> Benny Snell.

[GREENBEAN]

I guess we're just abandoning the draft forum. 
 
Snell is underappreciated simply because he isn't a burner, or flashy. He's probably not going to rip off 60 yard'ers like Barkley, doesn't have that level of speed + athleticism... HOWEVER, you will get a complete 3 down back who will always churn out yards, is better than advertised at the LOS, has some wiggle and gets the tough yardage. 
Somewhere between Mark Ingram and James Connor --> Benny Snell.

Don’t take it personally. This isn’t specifically draft related. It’s an overall strategy for the offseason. The draft just happens to be a part of that.

I’m liking the idea of a back like him. I go back and dirty on the idea of bell this offseason. Honestly im on the naysayer side of it. I’d rather draft a guy like snell and have him, McGuire and cannon run behind a totally rebuilt offensive line. Spend the money on The trenches on both sides of the ball.


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[Paradis]

4 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Don’t take it personally. This isn’t specifically draft related. It’s an overall strategy for the offseason. The draft just happens to be a part of that.

I’m liking the idea of a back like him. I go back and dirty on the idea of bell this offseason. Honestly im on the naysayer side of it. I’d rather draft a guy like snell and have him, McGuire and cannon run behind a totally rebuilt offensive line. Spend the money on The trenches on both sides of the ball.


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All good bro, i'm over trying to drive traffic there. Its futile. People clearly prefer the main strip -- which is fine. The drawback is of course that prospect chatter gets scattered over 10 threads over 3-4 months, instead of one in the sub forum. 

but whatevs. 

[NYDreamer]

Yes! Love this guy's passion and game.  We need a guy like Snell.  He is the type of guy when a DB sees him coming at him makes a career decision late in the 4th QTR not to square up because he is about to get run over.  

Build the offensive line and draft this guy instead of signing Bell.

[GREENBEAN]

All good bro, i'm over trying to drive traffic there. Its futile. People clearly prefer the main strip -- which is fine. The drawback is of course that prospect chatter gets scattered over 10 threads over 3-4 months, instead of one in the sub forum. 
but whatevs. 

I hear ya. Half the reason I placed it here is for the reason you stated. I don’t comment much on the draft board but have read pretty much everything on there over the past few weeks.

People do prefer the main board though.


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[#27TheDominator]

12 hours ago, Paradis said:

All good bro, i'm over trying to drive traffic there. Its futile. People clearly prefer the main strip -- which is fine. The drawback is of course that prospect chatter gets scattered over 10 threads over 3-4 months, instead of one in the sub forum. 

but whatevs. 

I probably like the draft stuff as much as anybody.  There are always more responses on the main board than in the draft forum or lounge.  Most/many of us don't really care because we just use the "unread content" feature to read the board, rather than scanning forums.  That way I will see any new posts in every forum.  The point where it becomes annoying is when we look back for these kind of things.  The best solution is to probably keep them on the main board at first and then having someone move them to the draft board for archive purposes.  Kind of an annoying job for a mod, but I'd be happy to help out if I can.

I like Benny Snell, but he doesn't seem like anything to get too excited about.  Seems like a hard nosed guy with the type of attitude that you love. 

[Patriot Killa]

47 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I like Benny Snell, but he doesn't seem like anything to get too excited about.  Seems like a hard nosed guy with the type of attitude that you love. 

If we don’t get Le’Veon Bell, I wouldn’t mind pivoting and signing Tevin Coleman and drafting someone like Benny Snell. Make them share carries and have a lightning/thunder type of combo. Tevin catches out of the back field and does the finesse/quick running and Benny Snell pounds the rock and wears them out all game.

[Chrebetfan80]

22 hours ago, Paradis said:

I guess we're just abandoning the draft forum. 

 

Snell is underappreciated simply because he isn't a burner, or flashy. He's probably not going to rip off 60 yard'ers like Barkley, doesn't have that level of speed + athleticism... HOWEVER, you will get a complete 3 down back who will always churn out yards, is better than advertised at the LOS, has some wiggle and gets the tough yardage. 

Somewhere between Mark Ingram and James Connor --> Benny Snell.

great comparison actually, I view him as a little more powerful connor.  He's got special balance, his feet are impressive in the hole. He lacks that top end acceleration, but he's a guy who just knows how to run with the football in his hand, he has great patience.. The balance is what i keep coming back to, watch his runs, guys hitting him at all angles yet his body positioning and pad level remain consistently pointed upfield.  Like people on here have said, is he a game breaker? probably not.. he wont be breaking off huge blazing runs where you give him a seem and he's to the house, but he's going to be a steady consistent force for you out of the backfield.  Very interested to see what he runs at the combine, that could push him up boards since the tape shows the type of skills he has already. 

[GREENBEAN]

great comparison actually, I view him as a little more powerful connor.  He's got special balance, his feet are impressive in the hole. He lacks that top end acceleration, but he's a guy who just knows how to run with the football in his hand, he has great patience.. The balance is what i keep coming back to, watch his runs, guys hitting him at all angles yet his body positioning and pad level remain consistently pointed upfield.  Like people on here have said, is he a game breaker? probably not.. he wont be breaking off huge blazing runs where you give him a seem and he's to the house, but he's going to be a steady consistent force for you out of the backfield.  Very interested to see what he runs at the combine, that could push him up boards since the tape shows the type of skills he has already. 

The way you guys are breaking Snell down makes me think of Curtis Martin. Most of his career was as a very effective yard gainer but the explosive long runs to the house waned every year. He just kept getting yards and was reliable.
Admittedly I didn’t love Curtis Martin while he was playing for us, (the great compiler) but you don’t know whatcha got till it’s gone.
I would really like to have the consistency of a CM these days.


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[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

18 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

The way you guys are breaking Snell down makes me think of Curtis Martin. Most of his career was as a very effective yard gainer but the explosive long runs to the house waned every year. He just kept getting yards and was reliable.
Admittedly I didn’t love Curtis Martin while he was playing for us, (the great compiler) but you don’t know whatcha got till it’s gone.
I would really like to have the consistency of a CM these days.


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Sorry to hear that you felt that way about Curtis.  He was much more talented than that.  I like to think of Snell more in terms of Thomas Jones.  Not as big, mind you, but a physical back with good balance, who looks for contact, takes on tacklers and usually wins.  Snell is not a game changer, but will be a reliable hard running back in the NFL.  Looks like a late second, top of the third round pick to me.

[GREENBEAN]

8 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Sorry to hear that you felt that way about Curtis.  He was much more talented than that.  I like to think of Snell more in terms of Thomas Jones.  Not as big, mind you, but a physical back with good balance, who looks for contact, takes on tacklers and usually wins.  Snell is not a game changer, but will be a reliable hard running back in the NFL.  Looks like a late second, top of the third round pick to me.

That would be a good guy to Have. I'd prefer a guy like Darrel Henderson from what I've seen, but Snell would be a welcome addition. That kind of hard running consistency would be helpful. 

I think in the Curtis days, I was really in love with the idea of the home run hitter and I felt that CM disappeared toward the end of games too much. I was a big Lamont Jordan supporter in those days. lol. We see how well he turned out. Curtis was far better than I gave him credit for in hindsight. 

My perfect back would be a Chris Ivory would could stay healthy. Hard runner, very fast and can take it to the house after laying someone out. Problem is those guys don't stay healthy. 

 

[Chrebetfan80]

8 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

The way you guys are breaking Snell down makes me think of Curtis Martin. Most of his career was as a very effective yard gainer but the explosive long runs to the house waned every year. He just kept getting yards and was reliable.
Admittedly I didn’t love Curtis Martin while he was playing for us, (the great compiler) but you don’t know whatcha got till it’s gone.
I would really like to have the consistency of a CM these days.


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There are definitely parts of his game that can give you Martin flashbacks.. balance wise I watch him and I can see the comparison, definitely makes me think back to Martin in that aspect. That’s kind of where it ends for me though.. I think snell has more power and runs with more force than Martin where as I think Martin had more wiggle to his game than snell. On contact Martin would shift his body and guys would slide off, it showed off his balance but also showed off what a beautifully technical runner Curtis was. 

Snells has the power and balance to run through arm tackles and keep his pads north and south. 

Paradis’ comparison is more apt than I can think of right now, I keep trying to think of a single player he reminds me of but until it comes to me paradis set the bounds pretty well in my opinion.  

[GREENBEAN]

11 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

There are definitely parts of his game that can give you Martin flashbacks.. balance wise I watch him and I can see the comparison, definitely makes me think back to Martin in that aspect. That’s kind of where it ends for me though.. I think snell has more power and runs with more force than Martin where as I think Martin had more wiggle to his game than snell. On contact Martin would shift his body and guys would slide off, it showed off his balance but also showed off what a beautifully technical runner Curtis was. 

Snells has the power and balance to run through arm tackles and keep his pads north and south. 

Paradis’ comparison is more apt than I can think of right now, I keep trying to think of a single player he reminds me of but until it comes to me paradis set the bounds pretty well in my opinion.  

Right.  I'm more thinking of the overall way in which Snell is being described. I don't know enough about him to make any in-depth comparisons. Like you mentioned Paradis and some others are doing a good job of that. 

Considering the revolving door we've had at RB over the past decade, I would love to have a guy that sticks around and contributes hard running and consistently positive yards for the next 6-10 years. 

That said, I'm sad for Powell. He's been a pretty good player on some pretty bad teams. It looks like his time is up and while that's truly a bummer, it would be time to really think about a higher pick on a RB. Cannon, while nice in some respects seems like a depth guy at best to me. I could be wrong, but I'd love a guy like Henderson or Snell to a lesser degree. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:

That would be a good guy to Have. I'd prefer a guy like Darrel Henderson from what I've seen, but Snell would be a welcome addition. That kind of hard running consistency would be helpful. 

I think in the Curtis days, I was really in love with the idea of the home run hitter and I felt that CM disappeared toward the end of games too much. I was a big Lamont Jordan supporter in those days. lol. We see how well he turned out. Curtis was far better than I gave him credit for in hindsight. 

My perfect back would be a Chris Ivory would could stay healthy. Hard runner, very fast and can take it to the house after laying someone out. Problem is those guys don't stay healthy. 

 

Good post.  I too liked Jordan and Ivory.  Ivory's style invariably caused him to break down in the second half of the year. Still hampers him since leaving the Jets.  Crowell flashed that kind of quality a few times, the Denver game, but it turned out to be a mirage. Terrible blocker, doesn't display a ton of "heart".  Henderson is the back I really love in this draft.  His cutback ability and quickness is  a rare gift.  His size would necessitate bringing in another big back.  I like McGuire more than most here.  I don't get the knocks on him.  Cannon needs to learn to catch the ball.  He looked good in camp, good on specials and flashed some in games.  He's fast and hits the hole quickly.  I always liked Bilal.  Too bad about him.  Seems like it's always something that foils him from having a  complete campaign. Jacobs is probably a preferable choice to Snell, if that's the type of back that interests the Jets, but I am afraid he's going to be over drafted.  This presents a problem for us with limited draft choices, specifically lacking a second rounder.  Only trading down will solve that dilemma.  Regards, Bean.

[GREENBEAN]

8 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Good post.  I too liked Jordan and Ivory.  Ivory's style invariably caused him to break down in the second half of the year. Still hampers him since leaving the Jets.  Crowell flashed that kind of quality a few times, the Denver game, but it turned out to be a mirage. Terrible blocker, doesn't display a ton of "heart".  Henderson is the back I really love in this draft.  His cutback ability and quickness is  a rare gift.  His size would necessitate bringing in another big back.  I like McGuire more than most here.  I don't get the knocks on him.  Cannon needs to learn to catch the ball.  He looked good in camp, good on specials and flashed some in games.  He's fast and hits the hole quickly.  I always liked Bilal.  Too bad about him.  Seems like it's always something that foils him from having a  complete campaign. Jacobs is probably a preferable choice to Snell, if that's the type of back that interests the Jets, but I am afraid he's going to be over drafted.  This presents a problem for us with limited draft choices, specifically lacking a second rounder.  Only trading down will solve that dilemma.  Regards, Bean.

Right. 

Marshawn Lynch is really the only guy like that who has managed to stay healthy overall. Those guys usually end up wearing out which really sucks. Remember that Pats game a couple of years ago, we were revving up to beat them and Ivory went down on the first drive? I think it was the FitzMarshall season. 

Anyhoo, I would love to come out of this draft with Henderson or Snell to a lesser degree.

Truth is I would love to beef up the O line In FA with Brown and Paradis, trade back grab Nkeal Harry in the mid first (best WR in the draft IMO) take Henderson in the second. Make OL the 3 picks in the 3rd and then we're off.  

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!! 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

11 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Right. 

Marshawn Lynch is really the only guy like that who has managed to stay healthy overall. Those guys usually end up wearing out which really sucks. Remember that Pats game a couple of years ago, we were revving up to beat them and Ivory went down on the first drive? I think it was the FitzMarshall season. 

Anyhoo, I would love to come out of this draft with Henderson or Snell to a lesser degree.

Truth is I would love to beef up the O line In FA with Brown and Paradis, trade back grab Nkeal Harry in the mid first (best WR in the draft IMO) take Henderson in the second. Make OL the 3 picks in the 3rd and then we're off.  

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!! 

I like your plan, but am more comfortable with Saffold and Morse as compared to Brown and Paradis. Brown scares me.  Contract and years, sometimes a "rusty gate" in pass protection.  Anyway you say tomatao, I say tomatoe.  I like the draft strategy and the picks.  I think Harry is a better prospect than Metcalf.  Any memory of all things sh*tspatrick gives me heartburn, but that's another story. Have a good one.