Bruce Harper Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I don't. He's the enemy. I just lol at the folks here who were so adamant (and mass buttfulbled anyone who disagreed) that Darnold, today, is one of the top 2-3 QB's in the NFL. I have never heard anyone here express that opinion. That’s just silly. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Crusher said: accuracy lessons. Too bad accuracy really doesn’t improve on the pro level. Either you got it or you don’t. Mechanics can slightly change this but when you have such a lack of touch and anticipation...don’t look good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Nixhead said: Brady’s brain alone will keep him at the top but I’ve noticed more interceptions from him in big games. His athletic skills are starting to deteriorate. If there is any slip in his offensive line Brady could have a major PFF ratings slip. Yes Darnolds rating will go up also. Yes the gap will close considerably next season. I can see Brady with an 85ish score and Darnold with an 80ish score. What do you mean by "slip in his offensive line"? That they'll be called for holding when they hold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, JiF said: I will tell you! It was almost 30 points higher under Philbin. If Gase is so good, why did Tannehill get worse? Lol F those PFF grades. Look at his raw numbers. There isn’t really that much of a difference. Ryan Tannehill has always been Ryan Tannehill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 59 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: Is this for real? Comparing the GOAT with ROOKIE QB's? COME ON MAN I read the article again and there is no comparison to Joe Montana. What are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, JetPotato said: I read the article again and there is no comparison to Joe Montana. What are you talking about? If thats what you think.........more power to you 6 rings to 4 says differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico002 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Allen over Darnold is laughable buys it’s ok- on to 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Hopefully it ends up Jets Darnold 90 Bills Allen 75 Pats QB 40 Fins QB 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Life Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said: I’m ultra triggered but only because I know Allen isn’t better lol. I don’t think Darnold is top 5, 10 or 15 but damn...in what universe is 52% completion 10 TDs/12 INTs better than what Darnold did? His rushing im guessing (which long term wont last) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Thanks for the heads up I still have a pair of jeans to return. When are they planning on closing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Warfish said: They rank Allen ahead of Darnold, lol, Jets Fans everywhere (who think Darnold is already a top 2-3 Franchise QB) now ultra-triggered! Except those who understand numbers are influenced by the coaching staff, talent in the team and the schedule. Think a 65.3 over a 64.7 means nothing to anyone who watched the games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, JiF said: Darnold post injury was very good. He looked every bit the part from every aspect of the game. The unfortunate part for Jets fans was, after the Jets game, so did Allen. Dude had 5 TD's in week 17 vs. Miami. 224 in the air, 95 on the ground. Bills lead rusher on the season too. Whereas, Darnold ended the season on a goose egg vs. the Patriots. But dont worry, wait till Gase gets his hands on him and improves his game drastically the same way he did with Tannehill. allen was also running like crazy too. it all about what these guys were asked to do by their coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said: Too bad accuracy really doesn’t improve on the pro level. Either you got it or you don’t. Mechanics can slightly change this but when you have such a lack of touch and anticipation...don’t look good for him. Drew brees has increased his completion percentage from 60% to 74% over the course of his career. Of course accuracy can be improved upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, JiF said: I will tell you! It was almost 30 points higher under Philbin. If Gase is so good, why did Tannehill get worse? He played one complete season under Gase and no one thinks it was a drop in performance, that he didn't play his best. Throw out all that came before he was in Miami and moan over tannehill vs another good OC before we see him coach a game. Let the pointless whining begin, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Allen was inferior as a passer in pretty much every way -- but ended up higher in many metrics due to his legs. Guy is a great athlete. I would suspect that 32 out of 32 GMs would prefer Darnold at this point, so I don't really get the Allen drum beating either way. But yeah, the rookies have a big gap to close on arguably the best QB ever. Not exactly earth-shattering analysis here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said: Too bad accuracy really doesn’t improve on the pro level. Either you got it or you don’t. Mechanics can slightly change this but when you have such a lack of touch and anticipation...don’t look good for him. That's scary if true. Hopefully it isn't, because Darnold was on pace to break the rookie int record before he got that 4 week break. Jackson and Allen also looked terrible at times also with their inability to thread the needle. If there's no chance they improve their passing accuracy, wouldn't we have to assume Darnold, Allen and Jackson aren't long for this league then? All three made some great throws, but also struggled with accuracy issues. So maybe all 3 teams need to go back to the drawing board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: He played one complete season under Gase and no one thinks it was a drop in performance, that he didn't play his best. Throw out all that came before he was in Miami and moan over tannehill vs another good OC before we see him coach a game. Let the pointless whining begin, lol I dont see how it's pointless. It's a data driven observation. You can argue the validity of the data but do you really think it's that far off? We hired someone for one particular reason and outside of coaching one of the greatest QB's of all time, there really isnt any proof Gase is QB whisperer. No QB's actually improve under Gase's tutelage. Last year, Todd Bowles and Jeremy Bates had a rookie QB scoring almost 20 points higher than 2 veterans who had previously led teams to the playoffs. Their offense was ranked higher in every single category than the Dolphins. I find that concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: Allen was inferior as a passer in pretty much every way -- but ended up higher in many metrics due to his legs. Guy is a great athlete. I would suspect that 32 out of 32 GMs would prefer Darnold at this point, so I don't really get the Allen drum beating either way. But yeah, the rookies have a big gap to close on arguably the best QB ever. Not exactly earth-shattering analysis here. You're usually a pretty level headed guy, but 32 out of 32? Wow, you lost me there. I'd think it'd be a slight edge, maybe 55-60% of the GMs at most. Allen might not turn out to be great (same with Darnold), but he has the best arm, and the biggest upside of anyone in his class last year. I look at Darnold as a slightly, and I emphasize slightly safer pick, but not one with the ceiling Allen has. I also think the teams who went QB last year got it right. Mayfield was clearly the best, Darnold slightly above Allen, followed by Rosen (who should have a huge season if he's KK's guy) and then Jackson(I think he is the most fun to watch) can also become really special. Who knows though? Aside from Mayfield and Jackson, nobody had any talent around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 43 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said: Drew brees has increased his completion percentage from 60% to 74% over the course of his career. Of course accuracy can be improved upon. 60% isn’t that bad.... 52% is. There’s a major difference. Allen throws AT his WR’s, has zero touch or feel on his passes, can’t see the whole field and doesn’t throw people open. using the most accurate QB in history doesn’t work. Terrible example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: That's scary if true. Hopefully it isn't, because Darnold was on pace to break the rookie int record before he got that 4 week break. Jackson and Allen also looked terrible at times also with their inability to thread the needle. If there's no chance they improve their passing accuracy, wouldn't we have to assume Darnold, Allen and Jackson aren't long for this league then? All three made some great throws, but also struggled with accuracy issues. So maybe all 3 teams need to go back to the drawing board? Huh? Darnold threw for 63% his freshman year and 64% in his sophomore year. I don’t expect rookie’s to show that exact same % in year one of the pros but Allen was a 50% passer at Wyoming. That’s the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 It helped Allen that he had the second best D in the NFL, behind Baltimore. No way Allen had a better year. I'm glad we have Darnold and I would not swap. After the injury/benching, Sam came back a different player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 59 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: If thats what you think.........more power to you 6 rings to 4 says differently Rings are meaningless. Is Trent Dilfer a greater QB than Dan Marino? Even if you can argue on stats alone (you can't - at no point in his career was Brady even more than 2nd best QB in the league - See: Manning, Rodgers), greatness means more than that. Greatness means you are worthy of being the face of the game and elevated as a role model. Someone who plays with integrity, good sportsmanship, accountability. Brady does none of those things. How many times was Joe Montana suspended by the league for breaking a rule and then lying through his teeth about it? None. Brady is not the greatest for exactly the same reason no one included Barry Bonds in that conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: You're usually a pretty level headed guy, but 32 out of 32? Wow, you lost me there. I'd think it'd be a slight edge, maybe 55-60% of the GMs at most. Allen might not turn out to be great (same with Darnold), but he has the best arm, and the biggest upside of anyone in his class last year. I look at Darnold as a slightly, and I emphasize slightly safer pick, but not one with the ceiling Allen has. I also think the teams who went QB last year got it right. Mayfield was clearly the best, Darnold slightly above Allen, followed by Rosen (who should have a huge season if he's KK's guy) and then Jackson(I think he is the most fun to watch) can also become really special. Who knows though? Aside from Mayfield and Jackson, nobody had any talent around them. I think if you think it's 55-60 you're the one that's way off base... I mean if you remove Allen's running ability he had very few things to be excited about. Darnold had a much stronger rookie season as a passer and was a better prospect coming out. I'd be genuinely surprised if there were more than 1 or 2 GMs who would prefer Allen over Darnold at this juncture. I'd go as far as to say more GMs would take Darnold over Mayfield than would take Allen over Darnold. That said the clear hierarchy based on last year is Mayfield > Darnold > Allen >Rosen who was the most disappointing by far, although his offensive line was in absolute shambles. Jackson is hard to get a read on. Played pretty well but was asked to do the least and had the smallest sample size... Then was completely hopeless in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, JetPotato said: was Joe Montana suspended by the league for breaking a rule and then lying through his teeth about it? Did the NFL drug test players back then? Did they scrutinize what players did on and off the field? What PED's? They used to allow Stick-em!!!!! Not saying Joe Montana did any of the above, but Montana had Rice what WR did Brady have that was close to Jerry Rice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, joewilly12 said: Did the NFL drug test players back then? Did they scrutinize what players did on and off the field? What PED's? They used to allow Stick-em!!!!! Not saying Joe Montana did any of the above, but Montana had Rice what WR did Brady have that was close to Jerry Rice? Uh, Randy Moss. The real difference is that Montana had LT murdering him after every throw. If you breath in Brady's direction it's a 15 yard penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjbuddy Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 PFF grades include a lot more than the statistics produced by a player. They even use adjusted statistics to come up with some elements that make up the grade. For example: As PFF writes, "If a quarterback fires a perfect pass that hits his receiver in the hands for what should be a first down, but that receiver drops it - we give the quarterback credit for that throw - statistics don't." For reference, Patriots had 23 dropped passes, Jets 19, Bills 16, Dolphins 13. Depending on how far or impact those dropped passes may have occurred, affects their rating. Other impacts on the grades according to PFF: Adjusted Completion Percentage PFF’s adjusted completion percentage metric is a better way of looking at a quarterback’s overall accuracy at it’s baseline. While our quarterback analysts are diving into actual accuracy by ball location, route type, depth of target and other factors, adjusted completion percentage is gleaned from our initial data collection of every game. Adjusted completion percentage takes into account factors outside of the quarterback’s control in terms of completing passes. It accounts for dropped passes, passes thrown away, spiked balls, passes batted at the line of scrimmage and those passes in which a quarterback was hit as he threw. Ultimately, this gives a real indication of completion percentage on passes that can actually be caught, as opposed to a quarterback’s completion percentage for a given game being tarnished by a load of receiver drops or other factors. Deep Passing A deep pass by PFF standards is any pass that is targeted and travels at least 20 yards in the air, past the line of scrimmage. We then have a variety of statistics that develop on just these passes such as attempts, completions, drops, yards, touchdowns, interceptions, passer rating, deep pass attempt percentage (amount of deep passes per every pass) and adjusted completion percentage on deep passes. Under Pressure Dealing with pressure is a huge part of playing quarterback, especially with the pass-rushers in the NFL and college nowadays and the pass-happy nature of the league. Under pressure passing is any time the quarterback is disturbed from his normal throwing motion from set up to release, or anytime a pressure is registered on a given passing play. Much like deep passing statistics, we then develop individual statistics off of just pressured passing. In addition to the usual suspects of yards, completions, attempts, passer rating and adjusted completion percentage, we also have pressure percentage (the amount of times a QB is pressured compared to total dropbacks) and sack percentage (the amount of time when under pressure a QB is sacked). Kept Clean Much like how dealing with pressure is a big part of playing quarterback in the NFL, playing from a pocket kept clean from pressure and within the offense’s structure is also vital, and proven to be much more stable from a year-to-year standpoint. Kept clean passing is relatively self-explanatory and is simply whenever a quarterback unleashes a pass without pressure being recorded on the play. We also keep track of the amount of time per total dropbacks a quarterback is kept clean as our ‘no pressure percentage’ metric. Play Action Play action is a major part of the NFL and football in general as it attempts to fool a defense by ‘faking a run play’ in attempt to open up passing lanes to different levels of the field. At PFF, we track all play-action passes and all non-play-action passes and craft all of our standard and signature statistics off the backs on whether a quarterback recorded a play fake or not. Unique to just play action passing, we also track the difference in completion percentage on play-action passes to non-play-action passes, showcasing which quarterbacks saw the biggest boost on the back of a play fake. Time in Pocket One of the more unique signature statistics at Pro Football Focus, the time in the pocket metric records the amount of time a quarterback takes from snap to throw. We average out the quarterback’s time to throw, time to attempt a pass, time until he’s sacked and time until a quarterback scrambles. On all passing attempts, we bucket them into quick passes (passes thrown within 2.5 seconds or less of the snap) or longer-developing passes (passes thrown at least 2.6 seconds after the snap). Each type of pass records it’s own totals of attempts, completions, yards, touchdowns, interceptions and passer ratings showcasing which quarterbacks utilize a quick delivery best and those who are better than others letting his receivers develop their routes downfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Oy... tragically stupid thread. At least you're consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: Uh, Randy Moss. The real difference is that Montana had LT murdering him after every throw. If you breath in Brady's direction it's a 15 yard penalty. Randy Moss - Jerry Rice? No way did Brady have Moss for all 6 rings? Rice has 3 with Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, joewilly12 said: Randy Moss - Jerry Rice? No way did Brady have Moss for all 6 rings? Rice has 3. And Montana won two before Rice even got there... I'm just saying the "Brady never played with good players narrative" isn't really accurate and he was a game manager on a defense first team for three of his six rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said: Yeah Allen finished ahead of Darnold in just about every rating system, though Darnold did finish strong and the knuckle heads on here keep laughing at Allen, I almost want him to succeed as much I want Darnold to This is not true. Allen finished with less TDs, less yardage, much lower completion %, only 3 less INTs, and a lower yards per attempt. Also, since QBs are not RBs and Allen won't be able to sustain the running he used to juice up his PFF numbers and "ESPN total QBR", please explain to me in what universe he "finshed ahead of Sam in every rating system", because it's definitely not this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, UntouchableCrew said: And Montana won two before Rice even got there... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Also this, and the graphic that says Darryl Roberts is a top tier corner, is why PFF is a horrible system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: 1 No, the 49ers won the Super Bowl in 1981 and 1984. Rice was drafted in 1985. They won two together, then Rice won his third with Steve Young in 1994. Montana won 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 19 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: Huh? Darnold threw for 63% his freshman year and 64% in his sophomore year. I don’t expect rookie’s to show that exact same % in year one of the pros but Allen was a 50% passer at Wyoming. That’s the issue. Not looking to argue, but if that's the be all and end all with him, why was/is he such a highly regarded QB prospect? Why would anyone ever have considered him at the top of the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: No, the 49ers won the Super Bowl in 1981 and 1984. Rice was drafted in 1985. They won two together, then Rice won his third with Steve Young in 1994. Montana won 4. Ok I take your word for it don't remember and don't feel like looking it up, doesn't change my opinion of who the GOAT is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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