jets staying with 3-4

[RobR]

22 minutes ago, choon328 said:

If this if true then they should trade Leo. The only hope was that moving him to DT in a 4-3 would benefit him production wise. No 3-4 DE other than Watt should be making $14 million in a single year. And also if this if true it's a big mistake. 

What many fail too realize is that Bowles ran a hybrid defense and Leo played plenty of snaps on the inside in a 4-3. He wasn't very good inside either.....maybe Williams can light a fire under his ass and get him to perform. Personally I'd prefer trading him but I doubt the return will be much.

[jetsons]

the ny post??? ha!!!...  I'll believe it when I see it.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

This article reeks of "Brian Costello February Speculation Syndrome".  "Contrary to speculation" + "According to sources" =  Brian Costello making up crap to fill a column.  There is not one single quote from Williams, with the exception of a few column quotes he dug up from 2016.  This is strictly a case of Costello trying to stir the pot.  The only useful part of the article was the citing of the 42 different defensive packages in the Williams playbook, and the acknowledgement of Williams flexibility in using various schemes and fronts according to personnel and opponent.  Of course we already knew that.  Pennel being cut because of his lack of speed is not a revelation.  This is a nothingburger with fries.

[MichaelScott]

If this is true, and I dont really buy that it is, I'm very disappointed to hear this. I was really looking for a change to a 4-3 in hopes of salvaging two 1st round picks in Leo and Lee. 

Also the fact that we have run a base 3-4 since Herm left and we havent had an adequate pass rushing OLB for a single season in that decade plus. At this point I think I'm just so turned off to the thought of hoping to find a legit rush OLB that I would rather go 4-3 and try to find a DE. 

Could you imagine being able to watch our D get to the QB consistently without blitzing?!??

... I can't ??

[genot]

3 hours ago, RobR said:

I love the player and even I don't think he'd be a good fit in a strict 3-4. He might have played most of his college career at zero tech but he'll never do that in the NFL. I also don't think he's a 5 tech at all.,,,,not even close.

But if you run a strict 4-3 he can play every single position down the entire line and excel. 

The truth is most DC's run some type of hybrid defense. Bowles did it, Rex did it, and Williams does it, IIRC Williams says he uses 44 different defensive fronts, so in that scenario Oliver would fit right in. 

I agree. The film on him, says one thing. Speed kills. I wouldn't be surprised if his combine numbers come close to those of a Josh Allen, or a Montez Sweat. Meaning, you can stand him up, at times, on third and long, and send him on a search and destroy mission.

[redlichtie]

8 hours ago, RobR said:

Actually if this is true I think it diminishes the chances we draft him.

Was just about to post the same, in a 4-3 he makes more sense. Not sure he’s a fit at all in an 3-4.

If there’s anything good about sticking with a base 3-4 it’s that finally, after years and years of missing out, we are in a position to actually get a top echelon edge rusher and it was looking like with typical ‘SOJ” luck that would be the moment we’;d transition away from the 3-4. The blindingly obvious pick, assuming we stay at 3, is now Allken or possibly Montez Sweat.

[redlichtie]

3 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

If this is true, and I dont really buy that it is, I'm very disappointed to hear this. I was really looking for a change to a 4-3 in hopes of salvaging two 1st round picks in Leo and Lee. 

Also the fact that we have run a base 3-4 since Herm left and we havent had an adequate pass rushing OLB for a single season in that decade plus. At this point I think I'm just so turned off to the thought of hoping to find a legit rush OLB that I would rather go 4-3 and try to find a DE. 

Could you imagine being able to watch our D get to the QB consistently without blitzing?!??

... I can't ??

You kind of allude to it in your post above but we’ve been doing it alll wrong for more than a decade. Instead of having our blue chip athlete’s on the edge, where in a 3-4 they need to be, we’ve drafted them on the inside.

Back in the day when Parcells was taking us to AFC Championship games we had Rick Lyle and Shane Burton at end in a 3-4. Nether was a stellar athlete but they got the job done, occupied the blockers and freed up space for our OLB’s. I’ve come to the conclusion that you don’t need top ten picks at end in a 3-4. If anything you need to find a great NT to clog up the middle.

So our best pass rushers have been gumming up the interior but we’ve had nothing on the outside, and in turn the lack of playmakers at OLB hasn’t helped those interior guys much either. I’d like to think Leo would be far more effective if we had a couple of guys causing havoc around him, the other knock-on effect would be to help out the secondary a bit,increased pressure and harassment of QB’s leads to more rushed and errant throws which = more incompletions and INTS.

The hope is that finally under Williams and with a draft pick in a position, and year, where an elite OLB should be a shoo-in we can look forward hopefully to changing that.

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, Mogglez said:

This is a puzzling move.  I'll wait and see what Williams says.

Puzzling how?  Josh Allen is the most likely draft pick at 3 and he’s a prototypical 3-4 OLB

 

Ditto for Dante Fowler who I think we end up signing

 

And we are not switching to 4-3 just for the hopes of making Darron Lee a poor man’s Vilma. Sorry

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, choon328 said:

If this if true then they should trade Leo. The only hope was that moving him to DT in a 4-3 would benefit him production wise. No 3-4 DE other than Watt should be making $14 million in a single year. And also if this if true it's a big mistake. 

Jets need to get Leo off the roster before Mac makes the inevitable $100 million extension offer to him

[MichaelScott]

2 hours ago, redlichtie said:

You kind of allude to it in your post above but we’ve been doing it alll wrong for more than a decade. Instead of having our blue chip athlete’s on the edge, where in a 3-4 they need to be, we’ve drafted them on the inside.

Back in the day when Parcells was taking us to AFC Championship games we had Rick Lyle and Shane Burton at end in a 3-4. Nether was a stellar athlete but they got the job done, occupied the blockers and freed up space for our OLB’s. I’ve come to the conclusion that you don’t need top ten picks at end in a 3-4. If anything you need to find a great NT to clog up the middle.

So our best pass rushers have been gumming up the interior but we’ve had nothing on the outside, and in turn the lack of playmakers at OLB hasn’t helped those interior guys much either. I’d like to think Leo would be far more effective if we had a couple of guys causing havoc around him, the other knock-on effect would be to help out the secondary a bit,increased pressure and harassment of QB’s leads to more rushed and errant throws which = more incompletions and INTS.

The hope is that finally under Williams and with a draft pick in a position, and year, where an elite OLB should be a shoo-in we can look forward hopefully to changing that.

I agree. I would even take it a step further and say that I would trade the stud NT for a stub ILB also. Clearly our run D was better with Snacks but I would say that McClendon has been more than adequate and I wouldnt call him a stud by any means. 

Anyhow, I couldn't agree more with your post. Imagine this, if we had spent the last 5+ years with Henry Anderson / Mike DeVito type DE's. Not flashy, lower profile guys that consistently get the job done and spent each of the Mo, Sheldon, and Leo draft picks on rush OLBers. I think our defense would have been significantly more effective. Especially if you go back to the days of having Revis and Cro in their prime.

Oh well...

[GREENBEAN]

13 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

This is the time of year where you really can't believe what anyone says. It could be true, it could also be the Jets trying to hide their free agent/draft plans.

I was just thinking that and gonna write a post about it, but you beat me to it.  It just seems odd. Although, it does highlight a true positive of having Gregg Williams. Whether or not it's real, the idea that he can actually adapt his entire defense to personnel, gives the Jets both the ability to play to their strengths as well as create a legitimate smoke screen. 

[IndianaJet]

12 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Could easily be smokescreen.

Could be a smokescreen...could be this "source" completely guessing.  Remember, it's February.  These guys have nothing to write about so they'll guess, speculate and hypothesize and try to pass it off as fact.

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, IndianaJet said:

Could be a smokescreen...could be this "source" completely guessing.  Remember, it's February.  These guys have nothing to write about so they'll guess, speculate and hypothesize and try to pass it off as fact.

It’s hard to take anything seriously this time of year. All the speculation with drafting and free agents is especially inaccurate. 

[NYs Stepchild]

47 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I was just thinking that and gonna write a post about it, but you beat me to it.  It just seems odd. Although, it does highlight a true positive of having Gregg Williams. Whether or not it's real, the idea that he can actually adapt his entire defense to personnel, gives the Jets both the ability to play to their strengths as well as create a legitimate smoke screen. 

You can stand up a 4-3 end or even swap him out for an extra LB but the system doesn't change. 

Technically Bowles implemented a 4-3 many times but they were still running 3-4 techniques. 

Williams runs a polar opposite defense to Bowles.  I don't think that will change. 

[Ghost]

13 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

 

He looks good but dude is 290. He’s more fit for a  4-3 than a 3-4. 

[Jet Nut]

14 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

If the Jets stay with the 3-4, there's no way they pick up Lee's fifth year. Not for a pot head that's already been suspended, has had multiple incidents off the field and sucks on the field. I can see possibly Williams keeping him on this season at cheap money? But 9.8 million? Not a chance.

Besides the pot, yelled at a woman?

Didnt suck a year ago on the field either.

[varjet]

Either there is a lot of smoke or the lack of a coherent plan. 

We hired Williams and then gave him Joe Vitt. I am sure he walked into a meeting and told Mac what kind of players he needed for his defense.  I am also sure that Chris said they really need to push for the playoffs in 2019.  There could be too many players to find for a 4-3 this year.  All speculation 

but if you are going to run a 3-4, you keep Pennel. 

[genot]

6 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Was just about to post the same, in a 4-3 he makes more sense. Not sure he’s a fit at all in an 3-4.

If there’s anything good about sticking with a base 3-4 it’s that finally, after years and years of missing out, we are in a position to actually get a top echelon edge rusher and it was looking like with typical ‘SOJ” luck that would be the moment we’;d transition away from the 3-4. The blindingly obvious pick, assuming we stay at 3, is now Allken or possibly Montez Sweat.

Alot of scouts love Sweat, but at the same time think he needs to play from a 3 point stance at end. Doesn't have the bend and flexibility to play as a stand up linebacker. Allen might be gone. Thats why Oliver is making more sense to me. I change my mind every day though. Kinda driving me crazy this year.

[Untouchable]

I don’t buy it

Williams has run a base 4-3 literally everywhere he’s been.

A guy like Joe Vitt specializes in 4-3 OLB’s.

And if you’re sticking with a base 3-4, why the hell get rid of Pennel? Guy is a solid NT who wasn’t making a ton of money and is right in the prime of his career.

[genot]

6 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t buy it

Williams has run a base 4-3 literally everywhere he’s been.

A guy like Joe Vitt specializes in 4-3 OLB’s.

And if you’re sticking with a base 3-4, why the hell get rid of Pennel? Guy is a solid NT who wasn’t making a ton of money and is right in the prime of his career.

Yes. Releasing Pennell is a huge clue, that a 4-3 base is on the horizon. Which is what Williams has run for years. The guy's 61yrs old. It's his defense

[genot]

I think the source for that article was Jussie Smoulett.

[genot]

10 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

This article reeks of "Brian Costello February Speculation Syndrome".  "Contrary to speculation" + "According to sources" =  Brian Costello making up crap to fill a column.  There is not one single quote from Williams, with the exception of a few column quotes he dug up from 2016.  This is strictly a case of Costello trying to stir the pot.  The only useful part of the article was the citing of the 42 different defensive packages in the Williams playbook, and the acknowledgement of Williams flexibility in using various schemes and fronts according to personnel and opponent.  Of course we already knew that.  Pennel being cut because of his lack of speed is not a revelation.  This is a nothingburger with fries.

 

[jetstream23]

I might call BS and/or smokescreen on this story.  If you're Gregg Williams and you plan on being with the Jets longer than just a season or two then you jumpstart the conversion to your preferred defense IMO.  Particularly with where the Jets draft this year, they should be able to get a Tier 1 down DE (anyone of Bosa, Gary, Ferrell, etc.) which is the key to a 4-3.  IMO the Jets weakest position on D has been LB for years....especially having to find not 3, but 4 guys to start there.  Changing the "footprint" of the defense, putting 4 guys upfront to immediately rush and contain the passer, and reducing our need to find 4 capable starting LBs is a good thing to work on right out the blocks in 2019.

[derp]

Could be true, but this is the year the roster is basically empty and the team has a ton of cap space. If there was ever a year to switch the defensive front, this is it.

[Gas2No99]

Well, if true - then TRADE Lee & Leo. 

Came across this as well and would make MORE sense if Jets did stay in a 3-4, otherwise Anderson should sign elsewhere:

The Jets have interest in re-signing free agent DE Henry Anderson.

Anderson had a career year after getting traded from the Colts last offseason. With the Jets expected to stay a 3-4 scheme despite bringing in DC Gregg Williams, keeping Anderson should be a priority. 27-year-old Anderson is expected to command $5 million-plus annually.

SOURCE: New York Post

February 21, 2019 at 11:12:00 AM EST

 

[NYs Stepchild]

If we sign Anderson it should be for the nickel only. 

That's still 50% of the snaps. 

[slimjasi]

Again, there is no more overrated topic of discussion in modern football than what base defense a team plays. These teams are seemingly all in nickel or dime for like half of the plays, anyway. 

[Chrebetfan80]

17 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Here’s the thing. They just said the three players released were released because of not fitting Williams 4-3 scheme. This was said yesterday.

 

So does anyone actually know if this 3-4 talk is factual? I’d rather wait to hear it from Gregg Williams himself. “According to sources” doesn’t really do much to satisfy the question.

I can tell you with pretty good certainty it will be a hybrid but there will be a good deal of 3-4 still left into the scheme.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 hour ago, Gas2No99 said:

Well, if true - then TRADE Lee & Leo. 

Came across this as well and would make MORE sense if Jets did stay in a 3-4, otherwise Anderson should sign elsewhere:

The Jets have interest in re-signing free agent DE Henry Anderson.

Anderson had a career year after getting traded from the Colts last offseason. With the Jets expected to stay a 3-4 scheme despite bringing in DC Gregg Williams, keeping Anderson should be a priority. 27-year-old Anderson is expected to command $5 million-plus annually.

SOURCE: New York Post

February 21, 2019 at 11:12:00 AM EST

 

2/20/2019>    Article:  Jets to stay in 3-4 Defense despite hiring 4-3 Defensive Coordinator;  Source;  Brian Costello, writer, NEW YORK POST

2/21/2019>    Article:   Jets have interest in resigning free agent Henry Anderson, despite 4-3 Coordinator Williams Source: NEW YORK POST

2/22 2019>     Pending Article:  Jets interest in resigning free agent Henry Anderson heats up for Williams, 3-4 defense.  Source:  NEW YORK POST

                         Notice a pattern here.  Very tricky fellow that Brian Costello.

[Dcat]

5 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

9/20/2019>    Article:  Jets to stay in 3-4 Defense despite hiring 4-3 Defensive Coordinator;  Source;  Brian Costello, writer, NEW YORK POST

9/21/2019>    Article:   Jets have interest in resigning free agent Henry Anderson, despite 4-3 Coordinator Williams.   Source:  NEW YORK POST

9/22 2019>     Pending Article:  Jets interest in resigning free agent Henry Anderson heats up for Williams, 3-4 defense.  Source:  NEW YORK POST

                         Notice a pattern here.  Very tricky fellow that Brian Costello.

I don't get this.  Are you predicting events to happen next September?  By then, all this will long be resolved.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I don't get this.  Are you predicting events to happen next September?  By then, all this will long be resolved.

No put it the wrong month for February.  Glitch in my head, have since edited post.  Thanks.  The articles are current. You're too fast for me.

[Savage69]

13 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

2/20/2019>    Article:  Jets to stay in 3-4 Defense despite hiring 4-3 Defensive Coordinator;  Source;  Brian Costello, writer, NEW YORK POST

2/21/2019>    Article:   Jets have interest in resigning free agent Henry Anderson, despite 4-3 Coordinator Williams Source: NEW YORK POST

2/22 2019>     Pending Article:  Jets interest in resigning free agent Henry Anderson heats up for Williams, 3-4 defense.  Source:  NEW YORK POST

                         Very tricky fellow that Brian Costello.

He was better when Bud Abbott was around..

[Jetmech]

Great news. It's worked well for so long...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[nyjbuddy]

On 2/21/2019 at 3:18 AM, Ghost said:

He looks good but dude is 290. He’s more fit for a  4-3 than a 3-4. 

I read a few reports that say he plays at 270-275.

[nyjbuddy]

On 2/21/2019 at 4:56 AM, Untouchable said:

I don’t buy it

Williams has run a base 4-3 literally everywhere he’s been.

A guy like Joe Vitt specializes in 4-3 OLB’s.

And if you’re sticking with a base 3-4, why the hell get rid of Pennel? Guy is a solid NT who wasn’t making a ton of money and is right in the prime of his career.

Pennel was actually pretty expensive for a 34 DT.  He was set to make $3.66M which puts him into the top 5 for that position.  Far from the top 2 guys(Suh, Goldman) but the Jets could just try to re-sign him for half the cost and he'd still be in the top 10.  Doesn't seem like a big deal to save $1.8M but that could go a long way to bringing back guys like Andre Roberts or Jason Meyers.