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Robert Kraft Thread


Maxman

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52 minutes ago, southtown24th said:

Ok.  So all prostitutes are doing what they're doing by their own free will?  Are you that out of touch and tone deaf?  Wake up man.  Turn on the TV, read a book, grab a magazine, newspaper, podcast, literally ANYTHING these days can inform you to the fact that many prostitutes are being held against their will and are working for someone who is mentally, physically, psychologically, emotionally, etc. abusing them.  

I am not holier than thou and I enjoy a gentlemen's club as much as the next guy.  But, I am also not a ******* ignorant moron.  For you to say that you know for sure that these girls were NOT trafficked and were all their by their own FREE WILL is downright moronic.  You don't know.  So just stop.  

Thanks for the missive.

I won't get into the "gentlemen's club" comment, because those poor girls have many of the same problems and issues prostitutes do. But hey, you're into lap dancing and whatever, so lets move on from that.

The only thing I'll differ with, is your comment about you not being "a ****** ignorant moron". Personally I think you might be underestimating yourself a tad. 

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8 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

There's almost too much material here to be used on old Krafty.  The irony of Kraft being caught on surveillance and videotaped ala Spygate as he is Deflated by women from foreign countries where many of the Patriots Super Bowl Championship t-shirts (from the years they lost) likely ended up?  It's almost unbelievable.  Next thing you'll tell me is that Kraft kisses Tom Brady on the lips.

The entire Patriots hierarchy of Kraft -> Belichick -> Brady will soon all have some sort of sanction, penalty, suspension, or fine against it during their "rain" of "suck cess" over the past 18 years.  There's simply a culture of arrogance and cheating unlike anything we've seen since the baseball steroid era with Bonds and all those guys.  It really is amazing that all of these things have been happening in plain sight for years and yet the Patriots are put up on a mantel.  It's become an open secret just like the mafia.  Vincenzo would come home from his 4 hour shift at the laundromat with $6,000 and nobody thought anything of it.  What a crock of sh!t the entire Patriots "die nasty" looks like.

The pathetic d**shbag commissioner has been sweeping it under the rug for the last decade to "protect the NFL shield"

When I think about it, I'm not sure  if I want to puke or punch the next person I see ... Think I'll do both at the same time

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9 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

 

 

 

The 3 posts above yours were the ones preceding mine on this page. Are any of them any better? I don't think locking this thread would really be such a bad thing, actually. I think after 3 days enough is enough, don't you? 

dude... I was responding to the Patriots troll who attempted to use Myra Kraft's horrible cancer to show what a great guy Krafty is and as some sort of explanation/justification for Kraft's behavior.  The truth is that Kraft started parading his new toy around very quickly after Myra's death...  enough so it raised lots of eyebrows and certainly gave the appearance of callousness.  Kraft is NOT the good guy that the troll would have you believe and using Myra Kraft's cancer as his evidence to support his inane position is totally f-ked up.   

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Kraft pissed someone very powerful off. It’s not a coincidence a couple of days after his testimony in Kap’s collusion case where he stated a certain person told him to deter others from signing Kap, he gets busted twice going into a tacky strip mall for sexual favors from sex slaves.


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11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

? Also, if these girls were "cooking some meals out back" as claimed, couldn't they simply walk off of their own free will onto the mean streets of Jupiter or Hobe Sound? Or were they simply prostitutes, happy to make a quick, steady buck in a affluent community? Just asking. 

Not if they dont have immigration documents. These rings dont necessarily have to keep women on literal chains to keep control of them. If they lack legal status, they could be just as trapped and isolated as a...well...slave.

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31 minutes ago, freestater said:

Not if they dont have immigration documents. These rings dont necessarily have to keep women on literal chains to keep control of them. If they lack legal status, they could be just as trapped and isolated as a...well...slave.

 I'm not looking to get into a political discussion, just trying to make sure I understand what you're saying here,

You're position is, they're not literally being held against their will and forced to work as sex slaves. They're illegal immigrants with limited employment options, and it's their illegal status that makes them "as trapped and isolated as slaves"?

 

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1 hour ago, ljr said:

The pathetic d**shbag commissioner has been sweeping it under the rug for the last decade to "protect the NFL shield"

When I think about it, I'm not sure  if I want to puke or punch the next person I see ... Think I'll do both at the same time

This is a stretch, bringing the commissioner into this.

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2 hours ago, ljr said:

The pathetic d**shbag commissioner has been sweeping it under the rug for the last decade to "protect the NFL shield"

When I think about it, I'm not sure  if I want to puke or punch the next person I see ... Think I'll do both at the same time

 

9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

This is a stretch, bringing the commissioner into this.

Not to mention the fact I hope I'm not the guy holding the door open for him as we both go into 7-11 for our morning coffee today....

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19 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

 I'm not looking to get into a political discussion, just trying to make sure I understand what you're saying here,

You're position is, they're not literally being held against their will and forced to work as sex slaves. They're illegal immigrants with limited employment options, and it's their illegal status that makes them "as trapped and isolated as slaves"?

 

look up the law, junior.

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On 2/23/2019 at 11:53 PM, Maxman said:

So I am starting a new thread and I want everyone to read these words. The other threads were all merged and locked because people think they are commenting on CNN or FOX News. This is a Jets site, we don't do politics.

What happened is terrible for many reasons. The human trafficking story is unbelievably vile and sad. Really just terrible. That said, this isn't the place to discuss the problems of evil in the world.

A bit of a history lesson here, but there was a time when bad things happened to the Patriots it was considered a good thing. The Patriots owner was just arrested. Tom Brady is old and his arm is weak. They had a great story and it was a great run. But I am not sure why we seem to be unable to just have fun here without crossing the line anymore. Leave the politics out of it and just keep it at screw the Pats and we should be fine.

It shouldn't be that hard. Just enjoy their dynasty being over, the Jets will win the division next season.

Maybe a "no off field/personal human being issues" rule might be appropriate at some point?  Keep talk about the on-field only.

We're here to talk football.  Not this player hitting his wife, or that owner gambling, or this player kneeling, or this coach being a drunk, right?  Too many of these issues simply can't be covered on the internet without it going political/divisive.

Food for thought.  

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3 minutes ago, ljr said:

Did the commissioner destroy the evidence of Spygate to "protect the NFL Shield"?

I dont know what that has to do with Kraft, he wasnt the one taping anyone, nothing would have happened to Kraft. 

More importantly what does it have to do with Fellategate?  The Pats, Kraft, etc were punished for Spygate, off of the evidence, what does releasing the evidence or destroying it have to do with what happened in Jupiter?  

Nothing

 

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12 hours ago, southtown24th said:

Ok Mr. Local Cop hanging out at the donut shop committing all sorts of crooked behind the scenes crimes and shady stuff...tell us, how do you KNOW these women were not TRAFFICKED and they are not SLAVES being held against their will?

You wrote an entire article here.  No where did you say where you read or saw that...

I will wait Robo Cop...let's have it.

Did you just quote a Bangles song?

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I dont know what that has to do with Kraft, he wasnt the one taping anyone, nothing would have happened to Kraft. 

More importantly what does it have to do with Fellategate?  The Pats, Kraft, etc were punished for Spygate, off of the evidence, what does releasing the evidence or destroying it have to do with what happened in Jupiter?  

Nothing

 

It has to do with my hatred for them all being cheaters & a$$holes

sorry if it seemed like anything else 

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11 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

There's almost too much material here to be used on old Krafty.  The irony of Kraft being caught on surveillance and videotaped ala Spygate as he is Deflated by women from foreign countries where many of the Patriots Super Bowl Championship t-shirts (from the years they lost) likely ended up?  It's almost unbelievable.  Next thing you'll tell me is that Kraft kisses Tom Brady on the lips.

 

And thats how its done, kids..

 

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13 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

I get it. Kraft owns the Patriots. We hate the Patriots. Kraft gets charged with solicitation. People jump all over the story, because he owns the Patriots, and anything that makes him/them look bad makes us happy. However the naivete and hypocrisy here is driving me nuts.

I'm going to say the same thing I said in the other thread on this subject, but try harder not to offend so many people this time.

The police in Florida "busted" a few massage parlors in extremely affluent areas of Florida such as Jupiter and Hobe Sound. We are talking multi-millionaire to billionaire type affluence here. This kind of thing happens all the time, all over the country, just not as often in uber-money areas like this. The names are known and powerful, so this story has gained national coverage. 

The local Police Chief goes on tv, talks about the girls working there being, quote unquote "virtual sex slaves" they were forced to service hundreds of clients a year because of this sex "trafficking" ring. Yada Yada . Its my opinion, but a rookie cop two weeks on the job could've figured out what was going on there within a few  patrol shifts. It was a "rub and tug" parlor, duh. Somebody complained loud enough, action had to be taken.

Do any of you have experience in law enforcement, or know the way prosecutors charge in cases like this? Do you even understand how often the terms "drug trafficking" or "sex trafficking" are used in the indictments of low level cases? The term "trafficking" as it is used by DA offices should be an affront to those who fight against real, sordid, forms of "trafficking".

The authorities in Jupiter had their press conferences, humiliated a couple of local names such as Kraft, a local billionaire financier, and even the town Fire Commissioner. When all is said and done what will happen to these people? A small fine, maybe a few hours community service, if that. Nothing else.

Now for those who own, and work in the parlors. The girls? If they were the "virtual sex slaves" the police claim, why didn't the police immediately swoop in and rescue them instead of letting the investigation go on for months and months? Also, if these girls were "cooking some meals out back" as claimed, couldn't they simply walk off of their own free will onto the mean streets of Jupiter or Hobe Sound? Or were they simply prostitutes, happy to make a quick, steady buck in a affluent community? Just asking. The owners? They'll rightly be prosecuted, and because of the attention this has received, be treated harshly by the courts. Somebody has to be, right? I'm sure there will be tax evasion charges, obviously prostitution (or as it's called in these cases, sex trafficking) charges. They'll be convicted to much fanfare, and then guess what?

Those who want to go to places like this will find others like Orchid Rose or whatever the hell the place was called, the "virtual sex slaves" will coincidentally find more work in those places, nobody will care. Until somebody does, and  that person complains often enough about what everyone and their mother knows is going on. Then police have to act. I'm not even going to mention how the local police will be "shocked, shocked I tell you" by what was going on in the new location. 

Wow...I just don't have time to get into everything about this post that I don't agree with....but real quick...

1 - no one is accusing Kraft or any of the men arrested of "trafficking", the charges against them are for solicitation only.

2 - there has been a huge push across the country to crack down on sex trafficking, read up on SESTA and FOSTA which were overwhelmingly passed by Congress and the Senate early last year and signed into law by Trump in April. (On top of all the other sex trafficking laws already on the books).  Over the last year this has become more of a priority across the country.

3 - By trafficking, I mean, in general, the abuse of women against their will for sexual exploitation.  There are many different factual scenarios that can constitute sex trafficking....and yes, in the extreme cases, some of them involve women literally being held against their will and forced to have sex with other people.  In the most vile cases, you are talking about women who have been kidnapped, drugged and held like prisoners under the threat of violence or death if they don't comply.

4 - While the term "sex slaves" has been thrown about by the media and to some extent law enforcement, no one is really talking about sex "slaves" in this case (or at least what you personally envision as a "slave").  While I certainly don't know all of the details here, what I presume is happening, or alleged to have happened, is that these women agreed to pay someone in China to help them obtain Visa's for them to come over to the States and work.  Often, as part of the agreement, they would agree to give some of their earnings to the people assisting them to come over here in exchange making those arrangements.  The problem arises when they get over here and they are "forced" to work providing sexual services, when they thought they were coming over here to work in restaurants or as maids etc. etc.   Is it possible some of them knew they were coming over to work 18 hour days giving tug jobs?  Sure, that's possible, but that's not often the case.  And by "forced", what I mean is that the people running this "ring" took the visas and other forms of identification etc. away from the women, essentially holding them against their will.  They may have even threatened violence against them (or family members back in China) if they didn't comply, but they are not necessarily bound by chains in the spa.  Further, if they are withholding all, or most, of the money they are earning, the women have no choice but to sleep in the spa and cook on the back steps.  Again, they're not locked in the rooms and bound by chains and they can probably run away from the situation, but to fault them for not doing this under the circumstances is placing the blame on the "victims"

5 - If these particular women were actually in immediate threat of physical harm, or being held as prisoners etc., I am certain LE would have acted sooner to stop someone from being physically harmed, or worse yet, killed, but as discussed above, there are many ways to hold someone against their will.  If the goal is to develop an in depth investigation to get the people running this kind of "ring" a thorough investigation has to be conducted in order to make the trafficking charges stick to the people running the show.  You can't get the people in charge if you just run around knocking down doors.  While a small part of the investigation is establishing that there was an exchange of sexual services for money.  There has likely been a lot more done behind the scenes that isn't as flashy as the "sex" part of the investigation, including obtain warrants for banking records, charge cards, tax records etc. etc.

6- to the extent law enforcement is exploiting people like Kraft...you're damn right they are and they should.  This has become huge national news, making people who aren't aware of these types of situation aware of it...so maybe someone who didn't know better calls the cops now on a similar spa in their neighborhood that they always had questions about.  Maybe it acts as a deterrent to other Johns who now may think twice about going into one of these spas wondering whether or not there's a police sting in place and hidden camera in the massage room recording them?  All of that seems like a good result of exploiting the charges against Kraft, even if some of these spas are full of women who are freely providing these services on their own.

7 - your final comment in your post essentially reads as, "the Kraft situation isn't going to stop this from happening in other places...so why should it matter?"  If that's the case, why have any laws at all?  No law is going to stop all people from breaking the law, but if the attention this case receives helps stop this from happening elsewhere...why is that such a bad thing?

And yes....I'm a former prosecutor....I know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

....ok...that wasn't as quick as I intended it to be.....

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26 minutes ago, ljr said:

It has to do with my hatred for them all being cheaters & a$$holes

sorry if it seemed like anything else 

LOL, I get that part. I totally agree.  Thats why this thread is on 6 pages already, its why I'm enjoying this so much.

But Goodell has nothing to do with it.  Unfortunately. 

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36 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

Wow...I just don't have time to get into everything about this post that I don't agree with....but real quick...

1 - no one is accusing Kraft or any of the men arrested of "trafficking", the charges against them are for solicitation only.

2 - there has been a huge push across the country to crack down on sex trafficking, read up on SESTA and FOSTA which were overwhelmingly passed by Congress and the Senate early last year and signed into law by Trump in April. (On top of all the other sex trafficking laws already on the books).  Over the last year this has become more of a priority across the country.

3 - By trafficking, I mean, in general, the abuse of women against their will for sexual exploitation.  There are many different factual scenarios that can constitute sex trafficking....and yes, in the extreme cases, some of them involve women literally being held against their will and forced to have sex with other people.  In the most vile cases, you are talking about women who have been kidnapped, drugged and held like prisoners under the threat of violence or death if they don't comply.

4 - While the term "sex slaves" has been thrown about by the media and to some extent law enforcement, no one is really talking about sex "slaves" in this case (or at least what you personally envision as a "slave").  While I certainly don't know all of the details here, what I presume is happening, or alleged to have happened, is that these women agreed to pay someone in China to help them obtain Visa's for them to come over to the States and work.  Often, as part of the agreement, they would agree to give some of their earnings to the people assisting them to come over here in exchange making those arrangements.  The problem arises when they get over here and they are "forced" to work providing sexual services, when they thought they were coming over here to work in restaurants or as maids etc. etc.   Is it possible some of them knew they were coming over to work 18 hour days giving tug jobs?  Sure, that's possible, but that's not often the case.  And by "forced", what I mean is that the people running this "ring" took the visas and other forms of identification etc. away from the women, essentially holding them against their will.  They may have even threatened violence against them (or family members back in China) if they didn't comply, but they are not necessarily bound by chains in the spa.  Further, if they are withholding all, or most, of the money they are earning, the women have no choice but to sleep in the spa and cook on the back steps.  Again, they're locked in the rooms and bound by chains and they can probably run away from the situation, but to fault them for not doing this under the circumstances is placing the blame on the "victims"

5 - If these particular women were actually in immediate threat of physical harm, or being held as prisoners etc., I am certain LE would have acted sooner to stop someone from being physically harmed, or worse yet, killed, but as discussed above, there are many ways to hold someone against their will.  If the goal is to develop an in depth investigation to get the people running this kind of "ring" a thorough investigation has to be conducted in order to make the trafficking charges stick to the people running the show.  You can't get the people in charge if you just run around knocking down doors.  While a small part of the investigation is establishing that there was an exchange of sexual services for money.  There has likely been a lot more done behind the scenes that isn't as flashy as the "sex" part of the investigation, including obtain warrants for banking records, charge cards, tax records etc. etc.

6- to the extent law enforcement is exploiting people like Kraft...you're damn right they are and they should.  This has become huge national news, making people who aren't aware of these types of situation aware of it...so maybe someone who didn't know better calls the cops now on a similar spa in their neighborhood that they always had questions about.  Maybe it acts as a deterrent to other Johns who now may think twice about going into one of these spas wondering whether or not there's a police sting in place and hidden camera in the massage room recording them?  All of that seems like a good result of exploiting the charges against Kraft, even if some of these spas are full of women who are freely providing these services on their own.

7 - your final comment in your post essentially reads as, "the Kraft situation isn't going to stop this from happening in other places...so why should it matter?"  If that's the case, why have any laws at all?  No law is going to stop all people from breaking the law, but if the attention this case receives helps stop this from happening elsewhere...why is that such a bad thing?

And yes....I'm a former prosecutor....I know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

....ok...that wasn't as quick as I intended it to be.....

Excellent post, and yes, you do know what you're talking about.

My original post, as I later stated, was in response to some of the low brow, and often over the top comments in this thread. It was an attempt to challenge those who left them, and truth be told, annoy them to some extent. This might surprise you, but my actual feelings on this type of crime align almost identically with yours, and there is very little (though some) of what you said I disagree with.

There are times I cannot resist the urge to play devils advocate, or pass up the opportunity to call someone out when I think they've gone a little bit off the reservation. This was one of them, and as I also later said, I'd have been better off not posting at all, just simply letting this thread be what it was intended to be, a sounding board for those who want to vent/gloat about anything Patriots related. Yet after 3 related threads, over the course of 4 days, I'd seen enough of the "comments". Sure I could've simply ignored these threads, but where's the fun in that?

Finally, I appreciate you taking the time to reply, and most importantly, the civil way in which you did.

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12 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

There's almost too much material here to be used on old Krafty.  The irony of Kraft being caught on surveillance and videotaped ala Spygate as he is Deflated by women from foreign countries where many of the Patriots Super Bowl Championship t-shirts (from the years they lost) likely ended up?  It's almost unbelievable.  Next thing you'll tell me is that Kraft kisses Tom Brady on the lips.

The entire Patriots hierarchy of Kraft -> Belichick -> Brady will soon all have some sort of sanction, penalty, suspension, or fine against it during their "rain" of "suck cess" over the past 18 years.  There's simply a culture of arrogance and cheating unlike anything we've seen since the baseball steroid era with Bonds and all those guys.  It really is amazing that all of these things have been happening in plain sight for years and yet the Patriots are put up on a mantel.  It's become an open secret just like the mafia.  Vincenzo would come home from his 4 hour shift at the laundromat with $6,000 and nobody thought anything of it.  What a crock of sh!t the entire Patriots "die nasty" looks like.

Plus Edelman starts season on suspension for Peds. Becomes Super Bowl  MVP looking like an 80’s era WWF wrestler. Right in front of everyone’s faces. 

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On 2/24/2019 at 12:03 PM, Lego My Lageman said:

If Jerry Richardson had to sell the damn Panthers for sexual harassment then Robert Kraft better damn well have to sell the PATRIOTS! These weren't women who were doing this because they were hot and making a ton of money. These were girls were human trafficking victims and according to a report were servicing 1500 men a year and had minimal hygiene. He better be gone, period and that has nothing to do with being a Jets fan. If our owner was caught doing this Id think the same thing.

Too bad our owner wasn't on the table next to him...2 birds with one stone...

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3 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

 I'm not looking to get into a political discussion, just trying to make sure I understand what you're saying here,

You're position is, they're not literally being held against their will and forced to work as sex slaves. They're illegal immigrants with limited employment options, and it's their illegal status that makes them "as trapped and isolated as slaves"?

 

No

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5 hours ago, Dcat said:

dude... I was responding to the Patriots troll who attempted to use Myra Kraft's horrible cancer to show what a great guy Krafty is and as some sort of explanation/justification for Kraft's behavior.  The truth is that Kraft started parading his new toy around very quickly after Myra's death...  enough so it raised lots of eyebrows and certainly gave the appearance of callousness.  Kraft is NOT the good guy that the troll would have you believe and using Myra Kraft's cancer as his evidence to support his inane position is totally f-ked up.   

Pump your brakes..learn to read and comprehend what you choose to reply to. 

What any man chooses to do after their wife is gone is their business and they aren't breaking any laws. (Wasnt referring to his pending misdemeanor situation as I am saying this) That was my point plan n simple.

I dont know crap about Kraft and neither do you. I'm not condoning him getting a rub n tug but nor do I care. Guys get busted for buying p*ssy everyday in a America. Some high profile some not....

Sh*t happens. 

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2 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Pump your brakes..learn to read and comprehend what you choose to reply to. 

What any man chooses to do after their wife is gone is their business and they aren't breaking any laws. (Wasnt referring to his pending misdemeanor situation as I am saying this) That was my point plan n simple.

I dont know crap about Kraft and neither do you. I'm not condoning him getting a rub n tug but nor do I care. Guys get busted for buying p*ssy everyday in a America. Some high profile some not....

Sh*t happens. 

everything I wrote is true.  And Kraft did break the law.  Now do everyone here a favor and go lick Kraft's saggy balls somewhere else.

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25 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Pump your brakes..learn to read and comprehend what you choose to reply to. 

What any man chooses to do after their wife is gone is their business and they aren't breaking any laws. (Wasnt referring to his pending misdemeanor situation as I am saying this) That was my point plan n simple.

I dont know crap about Kraft and neither do you. I'm not condoning him getting a rub n tug but nor do I care. Guys get busted for buying p*ssy everyday in a America. Some high profile some not....

Sh*t happens. 

Kraft is still a pig.  

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