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IF GASE & MACC'S WORDS MATTER...


14 in Green
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Ok, so by now most of us know what went on earlier today with the Gase/Macc PC.

If their words matter, Robbie is going to be a big part of this team going forward, we are going to be big players in FA, the Jets would love to trade down, and most importantly to me at least, OL, ER, and especially TE are positions of interest for the Jets in the upcoming draft. 

So lets look at this draft again, this time from the perspective Macc laid out. Assuming Herndon and maybe Leggett aren't going anywhere, who do we want to get for this new 2 TE look? The 2 Iowa guys Hockenson and Fant both jump out. When and who else, and would we target?

ER who do we target?

OL who, and how many?

Does what we heard today take the DT option off the board?

Does what Macc said today change the way you feel we'll go about FA? If so how?

I know, a lot of questions here. I'm curious which ones you think matter, and how you'd answer them.

As for my opinion, I'm thinking if Macc could work this draft the way he'd like, he trades down to where he can get the TE (Hockenson), one of the top few ER guys (or vice versa ER then TE maybe Fant?), then he concentrates on OL. The WR option seems out right now. I like the idea, just not sure its realistic to think we can pull it all off.

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I have a question - why would Gase and the Jets put the TE position out there for everyone to hear what we are thinking? Is it a smoke screen? Sure another stud tight end would be nice but I think this team has other pressing needs like maybe a running back and edge rusher of course not to mention the O line. If the Jets really are thinking about drafting a tight end the last thing they wanna do is put that on other teams radar. I think its a smoke screen and if its not don't announce it to the world.

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25 minutes ago, Nixhead said:

I have a question - why would Gase and the Jets put the TE position out there for everyone to hear what we are thinking? Is it a smoke screen? Sure another stud tight end would be nice but I think this team has other pressing needs like maybe a running back and edge rusher of course not to mention the O line. If the Jets really are thinking about drafting a tight end the last thing they wanna do is put that on other teams radar. I think its a smoke screen and if its not don't announce it to the world.

 

13 minutes ago, TokyoJetsFan said:

Smokescreen..  saying you want a TE in the safest way to say nothing.

I get the point you two are making, but why would he even bother with a smokescreen? He has the 3rd pick overall, nobody is thinking TE there.

He also said he'd love to move down and get more picks. Moving down certainly would put positions like OL and TE in play. Nobody would be surprised if he took either of those after moving down. In fact it would make sense.

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Words........words.......words........

Same old same old.

Deeds.  F' Words.

EDIT:  In before we draft DE (oh, sorry, ER) at #3 and he busts like a rotting grape.  Same old Jets.

The last ER I remember drafting high was John Abraham. Pretty nice player once we traded him to the Falcons.

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31 minutes ago, LurkerKing said:

What is an ER?

 

30 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

edge rusher

Yeah, but the better term is DPR - Designated Pass Rusher or just EDGE; the semantic difference is that EDGE/DPR implies more of an ACTAUL QB SACKER - gets to the QB . . . . 

30 minutes ago, LurkerKing said:

Oh, a DE, thanks. 

WHILE  . . . a DE is MORE COMPLETE defender (Run AND Pass) than an EDGE b/c they're better at Defending and Stopping THE RUN GAME, while an EDGE or DPR is actually exposed in THAT facet of defending - weak run game defender.

It's the difference between what the Jets had from 2000-2005 with Shaun Ellis (DE) and John Abraham (EDGE/DPR).

Just my 2¢

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7 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

The last EDGE I remember drafting high was John Abraham. Pretty nice player once we traded him to the Falcons.

Bryan Thomas in 2002 - "John Abraham clone"

Vernon Gholston in 2008 - Pass Rusher Jets have lacked since John Abraham, 15.5 TFLs, 14.5 Sacks in only 13 games of the 2007 season!!!!

 

Also John Abraham is currently in the Top 10 of NFL's ALL-TIME Sacks Leaders.

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4 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

 

Yeah, but the better term is DPR - Designated Pass Rusher or just EDGE; the semantic difference is that EDGE/DPR implies more of an ACTAUL QB SACKER - gets to the QB . . . . 

WHILE  . . . a DE is MORE COMPLETE than an EDGE b/c they're better at Defending and Stopping THE RUN GAME, while an EDGE or DPR is actually exposed in THAT facet of defending - weak run game defender.

It's the difference between what the Jets had from 2000-2005 with Shaun Ellis (DE) and John Abraham (EDGE/DPR).

Just my 2¢

Which was worth a lot more the joe willy's. (not the biggest compliment, I know. Just take it in the spirit I intended, ok?)

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9 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

The last ER I remember drafting high was John Abraham. Pretty nice player once we traded him to the Falcons.

Is this where we pretend D-Rob, Thomas, Richardson, Williamson, Williams, Ghost, etc. were not drafted to provide pass "elite pass rush"?

Abe was solid, he was just unreliable.  Kinda like an egg if I recall.  Somehow once he got to Atlanta, he started staying healthy better.... 

Will "ER" help us score 40 points a game?  No?  Then pass.

Will "ER" help Darnold in any way?  No?  Then pass.

Does Defense win in the modern NFL?  No?  Then pass.

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1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

If their words matter, Robbie is going to be a big part of this team going forward, we are going to be big players in FA, the Jets would love to trade down, and most importantly to me at least, OL, ER, and especially TE are positions of interest for the Jets in the upcoming draft. 

This is boilerplate sh*t. 

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is this where we pretend D-Rob, Thomas, Richardson, Williamson, Williams, Ghost, etc. were not drafted to provide pass "elite pass rush"?

Abe was solid, he was just unreliable.  Kinda like an egg if I recall.  Somehow once he got to Atlanta, he started staying healthy better.... 

Will "ER" help us score 40 points a game?  No?  Then pass.

Will "ER" help Darnold in any way?  No?  Then pass.

Does Defense win in the modern NFL?  No?  Then pass.

Ok, so you're "on the fence' about going defense in the 1st round, LOL.

What do you think about the TE thing?

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14 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

The last ER I remember drafting high was John Abraham. Pretty nice player once we traded him to the Falcons.

The GM at the time was Tannenbaum and in his time with the Jets, he never bothered replacing him through free agency or drafting one. 

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7 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Ok, so you're "on the fence' about going defense in the 1st round, LOL.

What do you think about the TE thing?

Travis Kelce and Jason Witten were third rounders.

Gronktardski was a second rounder. 

 

George Kittle was a 5th rounder. 

Kyle Brady was picked in the top 10. 

 

Theres a lesson here....somewhere...

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What we got from this press conference that we didn't already know/assume about free agency and the upcoming draft?  Nothing.  Yes we are going to be players in the free agent market.  Yes we are drafting in a good spot at the #3.  Yes Mike McCagnan is "tickled pink" about the  fact that Sam is our quarterback. Yes he thinks we have a few pieces in place going forward.

Surprised about the comments about the running back injuries.  That's troubling.  Does he think that last years group was adequate except for the injuries?  I hope not.  I don't think this told us much about the draft other than he likes the tight ends that are available and  thinks there's depth at edge rusher.  I don't think he's necessarily in on Hockenson.  There are five excellent first rate tight end prospects in this draft, and perhaps ten more second tier players.  The same thing goes for the Wide Receivers.  I didn't get the impression he'd be using a high first round pick at either position.  In the event of a trade back/down, that changes everything.

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31 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is this where we pretend D-Rob, Thomas, Richardson, Williamson, Williams, Ghost, etc. were not drafted to provide pass "elite pass rush"?

Abe was solid, he was just unreliable.  Kinda like an egg if I recall.  Somehow once he got to Atlanta, he started staying healthy better.... 

Will "ER" help us score 40 points a game?  No?  Then pass.

Will "ER" help Darnold in any way?  No?  Then pass.

Does Defense win in the modern NFL?  No?  Then pass.

I take it you didn't see the super bowl this year?

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Do the Jets need a pass rusher? Yes they do need a pass rushing OLB that can take the pressure off the dline. The Jets need to rebuild that dline again. They need to find a NT and a DE to compliment Leonard Williams at the other DE position. 

A good oline will stop a good dline anytime if you don't have a pass rushing OLB wrecking havoc in the backfield or pressuring the QB.

 

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1 minute ago, AL047 said:

Do the Jets need a pass rusher? Yes they do need a pass rushing OLB that can take the pressure off the dline. The Jets need to rebuild that dline again. They need to find a NT and a DE to compliment Leonard Williams at the other DE position. 

A good oline will stop a good dline anytime if you don't have a pass rushing OLB wrecking havoc in the backfield or pressuring the QB.

 

So you are all in on keeping the 3-4?  How about they get some players to fit the system Williams actually wants to employ?  I am guessing that cutting Pennel means they probably aren't going to look for a space eating nose. 

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44 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Ok, so you're "on the fence' about going defense in the 1st round, LOL.

What do you think about the TE thing?

Only if by "TE" you mean "Totally Excellent" O-Lineman who blocks and stuff.

We're not the Pats circa Gronk and the Killer.  Herndon is good enough for now.  O-Line, WR, RB, O-Line, O-FING LINEEEEEE, lol.

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25 minutes ago, Jet Blast said:

I take it you didn't see the super bowl this year?

Nope, nor do I think it's relevant. 

The Pats didn't get to or win the Super Bowl because of "elite edge rusher".  In point of fact they don't have anything resembling an elite edge rusher.

They won because of Tom Brady and Bill Bellichek.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

This is boilerplate sh*t. 

Yeah, "Boilerplate journalism," or sh*t, as you put it, is probably a pretty fair assessment of my writing ability.

Then again, I'm just a sixtyish year old football fan spit balling on a fan board. It's not like I'm some frustrated Hemingway wanna be crying in my beer over how my life turned out, so I'm okay with it.

Thanks for your insight though. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Is this where we pretend D-Rob, Thomas, Richardson, Williamson, Williams, Ghost, etc. were not drafted to provide pass "elite pass rush"?

Abe was solid, he was just unreliable.  Kinda like an egg if I recall.  Somehow once he got to Atlanta, he started staying healthy better.... 

Will "ER" help us score 40 points a game?  No?  Then pass.

Will "ER" help Darnold in any way?  No?  Then pass.

Does Defense win in the modern NFL?  No?  Then pass.

We don;t have top pretend anything. Facts are we haven't drafted a solid EDGE RUSHER since Abraham. The rest of your post is 100% spot on.

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4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

We don;t have top pretend anything. Facts are we haven't drafted a solid EDGE RUSHER since Abraham. The rest of your post is 100% spot on.

I think you and I will have to agree to disagree.

We've drafted edge rushers our GM said would be solid.  None of them were, certainly not for long.

And I don't trust this GM to do it again.  The same guy who literally wasted a pick on Hackenberg, on that small school nobody Dlineman last year?  Nope.

Although to be fair, i don't expect this GM to do much better picking offense either.  But for once I'd like to see this franchise focus on building an offense, and not focus on Defense the way we have for ages now.

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4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Yeah, "Boilerplate journalism" or sh*t, as you put it, is probably a pretty fair assessment of my writing ability.

Then again, I'm just a sixtyish year old football fan spit balling on a fan board. It's not like I'm some frustrated Hemingway wanna be crying in my beer over how my life turned out, so I'm okay with it.

Thanks for your insight though. 

“Boilerplate” refers to a rote, meaningless statement that everyone says. 

“We like [our free agent x] and hope to have him here for a long time. We’d also love to trade down. Or trade up! All options are on the table! Anything we can do to improve the roster. And we call around about every player! And trade! And free agent! We are aggressive! And the team will be good!”

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