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4 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Agreed. I liked him out of UCLA.  Thought he was going to be our pick. I also have stated many times that I thought the Cardinals Offensive Line was the worst in football.  Actually defended him yesterday, in discussing the Murray "swap". 

That being said last year, in the games that I watched, he showed little pocket presence, didn't "slide" well, appeared to be slow reading the defense, and forced the ball often.  Sam was under duress nearly as much, had a center who couldn't even snap the ball, and had a receiving corps that got no separation from the defense until late in the year. On top of that, Bilal Powell, the only running back who could actually block blitzing defenders, missed the second half of the season.

In spite of similar challenges to Rosen, Sam handled the rush, and adverse conditions much better, with superior results.

Yeah but none of that means Rosen can’t be good or wouldn’t fit in with the Pats. The rookies all had times where they looked bad just in different ways. Rosen has the rawest deal. He’ll be okay.

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15 minutes ago, nico002 said:

You don't know that playing QB in a Dome is easier? You're joking? 

WTF are you even talking about?

Nobody but you is even mentioning "domes" except you. You're going to base your evaluation of Rosen simply on him playing in a dome? If that's your argument, I guess you're ready to induct Mayfield into the HOF coming off the rookie year he had, playing OUTDOORS in CLEVELAND, PITTSBURGH, CINNCINATI, and BALTIMORE?

Just to put a bow on this nonsense, it doesn't matter where you play if you have horrible coaching and without any talent around you. 

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I don't totally see a problem here, Brees, Flutie, Wilson exceptions to the rule maybe he is too. Just don't put a mammoth OL in front of him he will find his throwing lanes, and or run, run like an ant then D gets to play squash the ant. Modern day Qb's are protected it's good for business and entertainment, unless you like old D like myself.

 

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3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

WTF are you even talking about?

Nobody but you is even mentioning "domes" except you. You're going to base your evaluation of Rosen simply on him playing in a dome? If that's your argument, I guess you're ready to induct Mayfield into the HOF coming off the rookie year he had, playing OUTDOORS in CLEVELAND, PITTSBURGH, CINNCINATI, and BALTIMORE?

Just to put a bow on this nonsense, it doesn't matter where you play if you have horrible coaching and without any talent around you. 

You are inflating Rosen based on nothing he did on the field. Darnolds situation was equally bad or worse but he managed to impress in multiple games.

The Cardinals would be smart to cut their losses and draft Kyler. They won’t get a 1st for Rosen in return either.

 

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16 minutes ago, nico002 said:

You are inflating Rosen based on nothing he did on the field. Darnolds situation was equally bad or worse but he managed to impress in multiple games.

The Cardinals would be smart to cut their losses and draft Kyler. They won’t get a 1st for Rosen in return either.

 

Jeez. You're all over the place.

Go back. Read what I wrote. Point out ONE thing I said that remotely resembles "inflating Rosen." What you WILL find is me saying I wouldn't, and don't understand people being so quick to give up on him.

You just get your balls twisted in a knot whenever someone doesn't lick Darnold's the way you do.

BTW still waiting for you to answer the Mayfield HOF question.

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13 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

If Arizona traded Rosen, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Patriots were the ones to call up and get a trade in. They have some picks to use.

I think your on to something here ...KK gets hired.(like seconds after the Jets interview). Muarry declares for the draft. Fitzgerald is back instantly. I don't think this is a smoke screen.    

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3 minutes ago, LinemanCT said:

I think your on to something here ...KK gets hired.(like seconds after the Jets interview). Muarry declares for the draft. Fitzgerald is back instantly. I don't think this is a smoke screen.    

i think KK only took the job if he could pick his own qb.  

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37 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I don't know enough about Rosen, except that he was put in the worst position of all the rookie QBs last year. I'm not ready to give up on a guy who played under a worse HC then Bowles, and possibly a worse OL then the Jets. I do think he'll show rapid improvement under KK if he stays in Arizona, or if he goes to a well run organization like New England.

Personally I don't understand this certainty so many here feel about Darnold achieving stardom, along with the oft stated belief that if he doesn't, it will be the Jets fault. Lets not forget Darnold was well on his way to setting a record for ints by a rookie (not sure, but I think he still ended up leading the league) before he got a much needed 4 week break midseason.

I'm going to say something here that I know I'll get killed for, but I truly believe. The foot injury Darnold had was not one severe enough that he should've missed as much time as he did. I'm of the belief that Bowles/Bates made the decision that things were spiraling out of control for him and the 4 int game cemented that for them. I think they helped him more then we'll ever know by keeping him out those 4 weeks. He came back looking like a different guy the next 3 weeks, until he, along with the rest of the team, stunk up the joint against New England in the final game.

I think he showed enough those 3 weeks though that we can feel better about him going forward, and I think he will become a solid starting QB. Of course I hope he becomes better then that, but I'm not as sure he will as most of you are.

Jet fans are so quick to overlook the bad in Darnold's rookie year, and cling to the good. Yet they are equally quick to decide Allen, Rosen and Jackson will never become the QB our guy will. Its very strange to me that so many feel that way. The only reason I can think of is the relief that so many feel to finally have a good young prospect at QB has clouded any sense of reality when it comes to their evaluation of him and his peers.

Good Afternoon.  Now for some facts.  Sam Darnold did not lead the league in interceptions.  Big Ben did with 16.  Sam had 15, in thirteen starts.  Guess who was next with 14 interceptions in 13 starts.  You guessed it, your boy Mayfield.  So did Josh Rosen.  Guess it's time to put that "on his way to setting a rookie record" myth to bed.  The rookie record for interceptions is owned by one Peyton Manning, the oft recognized GOAT,  He had 28. For Sam to have surpassed him he would have needed 14 interceptions in three games.  I'm sure you'd agree that wasn't going to happen, any more than it would have for Baker.  I am as sure of Sam as you are of Baker.

As for the "benching", you are right, the severity was overplayed.  Why would anyone kill you over that?  Sam was "week to week" forever.  That was Toilet Bowles modus operandi in action. Such decisiveness.  Made me want to puke.  I think it was an attempt by Bowles/Bates to save their collective azzes, as much as it was to give Sam a "break". It helped him much in the same way that it helped Baker Mayfield to start the season on the Cleveland bench, did it not?  Apples to apples.  Darnold did not "stink up the joint" in the New England game.  He was the only one to show up. His line for the game was 16/28 for 167 yards, 1 rush for 28 yards. Considering the "support" from the rest of the  Motley Crue, it was a yeoman's effort.

As for your final point, I only wish that Sam Darnold had the supporting cast on offense that Baker Mayfield was given. The difference in quality of the offensive line and weapons on offense, between the two teams was stark. The fact that Sam Darnold was able to stay upright and make noticeable, obvious strides in his rookie year, on this abortion of a 3-13 team, is in and of itself remarkable. That doesn't even take into consideration the "coaching" and laughable play calling.   Other than a propensity, early in the season, for forcing the ball, where was the "bad" in his play?  He demonstrated leadership, maturity , pocket presence, a strong arm, accuracy, toughness, mobility, intelligence and moxie, all in his rookie campaign. Did you see any limitation or flaw in his game that would be a cause for concern going forward?  I didn't.  Should we not be encouraged.

My friend,  I have yet to see you post a similar reservation about the chosen one, Mr. Baker Mayfield in any of your posts.  And I read them all.  Your feelings about Baker Mayfield shouldn't preclude you from acknowledging the obvious qualities of Sam Darnold.  No one will think less of you. I promise.

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1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think you missed a couple of years of his career.

Brees was very good his last two years completing roughly 65pct of his passes and having a 27-7 and 24-15 TD/Int ratio those two years. The Chargers actually went 12-4 in 2004 with Brees and 9-7 in 2005. He was small and that made some think he was never going to be a true franchise QB. 

In the Chargers defense, Rivers has been great so I don't think they made the wrong decision even if Brees has a SB. 

He was very good there.   But Rivers was drafted after his crappy 3rd season, and Brees took off after Rivers was a rookie holding out.

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15 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Good Afternoon.  Now for some facts.  Sam Darnold did not lead the league in interceptions.  Big Ben did with 16.  Sam had 15, in thirteen starts.  Guess who was next with 14 interceptions in 13 starts.  You guessed it, your boy Mayfield.  So did Josh Rosen.  Guess it's time to put that "on his way to setting a rookie record" myth to bed.  The rookie record for interceptions is owned by one Peyton Manning, the oft recognized GOAT,  He had 28. For Sam to have surpassed him he would have needed 14 interceptions in three games.  I'm sure you'd agree that wasn't going to happen, any more than it would have for Baker.  I am as sure of Sam as you are of Baker.

As for the "benching", you are right, the severity was overplayed.  Why would anyone kill you over that?  Sam was "week to week" forever.  That was Toilet Bowles modus operandi in action. Such decisiveness.  Made me want to puke.  I think it was an attempt by Bowles/Bates to save their collective azzes, as much as it was to give Sam a "break". It helped him much in the same way that it helped Baker Mayfield to start the season on the Cleveland bench, did it not?  Apples to apples.  Darnold did not "stink up the joint" in the New England game.  He was the only one to show up. His line for the game was 16/28 for 167 yards, 1 rush for 28 yards. Considering the "support" from the rest of the  Motley Crue, it was a yeoman's effort.

As for your final point, I only wish that Sam Darnold had the supporting cast on offense that Baker Mayfield was given. The difference in quality of the offensive line and weapons on offense, between the two teams was stark. The fact that Sam Darnold was able to stay upright and make noticeable, obvious strides in his rookie year, on this abortion of a 3-13 team, is in and of itself remarkable. That doesn't even take into consideration the "coaching" and laughable play calling.   Other than a propensity, early in the season, for forcing the ball, where was the "bad" in his play?  He demonstrated leadership, maturity , pocket presence, a strong arm, accuracy, toughness, mobility, intelligence and moxie, all in his rookie campaign. Did you see any limitation or flaw in his game that would be a cause for concern going forward?  I didn't.  Should we not be encouraged.

My friend,  I have yet to see you post a similar reservation about the chosen one, Mr. Baker Mayfield in any of your posts.  And I read them all.  Your feelings about Baker Mayfield shouldn't preclude you from acknowledging the obvious qualities of Sam Darnold.  No one will think less of you. I promise.

Nico approves this message

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1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Good Afternoon.  Now for some facts.  Sam Darnold did not lead the league in interceptions.  Big Ben did with 16.  Sam had 15, in thirteen starts.  Guess who was next with 14 interceptions in 13 starts.  You guessed it, your boy Mayfield.  So did Josh Rosen.  Guess it's time to put that "on his way to setting a rookie record" myth to bed.  The rookie record for interceptions is owned by one Peyton Manning, the oft recognized GOAT,  He had 28. For Sam to have surpassed him he would have needed 14 interceptions in three games.  I'm sure you'd agree that wasn't going to happen, any more than it would have for Baker.  I am as sure of Sam as you are of Baker.

As for the "benching", you are right, the severity was overplayed.  Why would anyone kill you over that?  Sam was "week to week" forever.  That was Toilet Bowles modus operandi in action. Such decisiveness.  Made me want to puke.  I think it was an attempt by Bowles/Bates to save their collective azzes, as much as it was to give Sam a "break". It helped him much in the same way that it helped Baker Mayfield to start the season on the Cleveland bench, did it not?  Apples to apples.  Darnold did not "stink up the joint" in the New England game.  He was the only one to show up. His line for the game was 16/28 for 167 yards, 1 rush for 28 yards. Considering the "support" from the rest of the  Motley Crue, it was a yeoman's effort.

As for your final point, I only wish that Sam Darnold had the supporting cast on offense that Baker Mayfield was given. The difference in quality of the offensive line and weapons on offense, between the two teams was stark. The fact that Sam Darnold was able to stay upright and make noticeable, obvious strides in his rookie year, on this abortion of a 3-13 team, is in and of itself remarkable. That doesn't even take into consideration the "coaching" and laughable play calling.   Other than a propensity, early in the season, for forcing the ball, where was the "bad" in his play?  He demonstrated leadership, maturity , pocket presence, a strong arm, accuracy, toughness, mobility, intelligence and moxie, all in his rookie campaign. Did you see any limitation or flaw in his game that would be a cause for concern going forward?  I didn't.  Should we not be encouraged.

My friend,  I have yet to see you post a similar reservation about the chosen one, Mr. Baker Mayfield in any of your posts.  And I read them all.  Your feelings about Baker Mayfield shouldn't preclude you from acknowledging the obvious qualities of Sam Darnold.  No one will think less of you. I promise.

Lets start with the interception thing. Darnoild had14 after the Miami game. So halfway through the season, he was well on his way to threatening Peyton's record, with nowhere near the number of TD passes Manning had. Thank God they sat him as long as they did. I certainly gave Darnold credit for turning his season around when he returned from the injury, and I think we all feel he should continue to improve this season. The final season game? Sorry, the entire offense, Darnold included was horrible. Not totally unexpected though. Last game, team knew the HC was gone, tough opponent. Nobody probably wanted to be there and the effort indicated as much.

As far as the Mayfield thing, you conveniently left out the fact that along with his 14 ints, Mayfield set a record for TD passes by a rookie. Yes Mayfield had better talent around him on offense, but not to that great an extent. Lets not forget that team lost 20 in a row before he came off the bench against the Jets. Even if the talent was better then I claim, they needed Mayfield to bring out the best of it. He did. Taylor or Kizer couldn't.

Finally, "the bad in his play" was certainly evident in his locking in on one guy, throwing ill advised passes (not just the ints, they were plenty that could've been picked or never should've been thrown.) especially the first half of the season. Is that the worst thing in the world? Hell no. Darnold was a rookie thrown into the fire day one. I fully expected him to struggle at times, and he did. He impressed the hell out of me though how he fought through it. If I had to grade his season, I'd give him a solid B, and I mean that as a compliment. I'd be shocked if anyone who watched him wouldn't be encouraged about his career going forward. However I'll keep trying to make the point he hasn't got there yet, and it amazes me how many people are so certain he will and the other rookie QBs won't.

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The plot thickens

According to Ralph Vacchiano of SNY, "many NFL sources" believe the Cardinals are targeting Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray with the top pick in April's draft.

The rumor mill is firing on all cylinders this time of year, so we're taking this report with a grain of salt. With that said, this is obviously not the first time Murray has been linked to the Cardinals. Kliff Kingsbury famously asserted that he would draft Murray first overall if he had the chance, though that was before the Cardinals hired him as head coach. One source told Vacchiano that Murray "fits exactly what Kingsbury wants to do" while another said "it's a perfect match." Despite an underwhelming rookie year, it's still difficult to believe Arizona would throw in the towel so soon on 2018 first-rounder Josh Rosen. However, if the Cardinals do decide to shop Rosen, the quarterback-needy Giants would likely be one of his top suitors.

Source: SNY.com
Mar 1, 2019, 2:56 PM

 

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1 minute ago, CTJetsFan said:

The plot thickens

According to Ralph Vacchiano of SNY, "many NFL sources" believe the Cardinals are targeting Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray with the top pick in April's draft.

The rumor mill is firing on all cylinders this time of year, so we're taking this report with a grain of salt. With that said, this is obviously not the first time Murray has been linked to the Cardinals. Kliff Kingsbury famously asserted that he would draft Murray first overall if he had the chance, though that was before the Cardinals hired him as head coach. One source told Vacchiano that Murray "fits exactly what Kingsbury wants to do" while another said "it's a perfect match." Despite an underwhelming rookie year, it's still difficult to believe Arizona would throw in the towel so soon on 2018 first-rounder Josh Rosen. However, if the Cardinals do decide to shop Rosen, the quarterback-needy Giants would likely be one of his top suitors.

Source: SNY.com
Mar 1, 2019, 2:56 PM

 

then the 49ers can trade out to a team that wants haskins and we get bosa.

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26 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Lets start with the interception thing. Darnoild had14 after the Miami game. So halfway through the season, he was well on his way to threatening Peyton's record, with nowhere near the number of TD passes Manning had. Thank God they sat him as long as they did. I certainly gave Darnold credit for turning his season around when he returned from the injury, and I think we all feel he should continue to improve this season. The final season game? Sorry, the entire offense, Darnold included was horrible. Not totally unexpected though. Last game, team knew the HC was gone, tough opponent. Nobody probably wanted to be there and the effort indicated as much.

As far as the Mayfield thing, you conveniently left out the fact that along with his 14 ints, Mayfield set a record for TD passes by a rookie. Yes Mayfield had better talent around him on offense, but not to that great an extent. Lets not forget that team lost 20 in a row before he came off the bench against the Jets. Even if the talent was better then I claim, they needed Mayfield to bring out the best of it. He did. Taylor or Kizer couldn't.

Finally, "the bad in his play" was certainly evident in his locking in on one guy, throwing ill advised passes (not just the ints, they were plenty that could've been picked or never should've been thrown.) especially the first half of the season. Is that the worst thing in the world? Hell no. Darnold was a rookie thrown into the fire day one. I fully expected him to struggle at times, and he did. He impressed the hell out of me though how he fought through it. If I had to grade his season, I'd give him a solid B, and I mean that as a compliment. I'd be shocked if anyone who watched him wouldn't be encouraged about his career going forward. However I'll keep trying to make the point he hasn't got there yet, and it amazes me how many people are so certain he will and the other rookie QBs won't.

OK.  The Miami was game #9. To tie he would have had to have 14 interceptions in the last 7 games.  So, he would have had to get worse in order for that to be true.  As you know he didn't. Peyton had 26 TD's in 16 games, and threw the ball  575  times.  Of course he had more TD passes. His TD% was .4% higher than Sam's.  His interception% was 1.3% higher than Sam's.  Advantage Darnold.  I'm not sure that sitting Darnold an extra two weeks was to his advantage.  As for the Patriocheat game, Sam's QBR  that game was 73.6.  That rating was higher than Baker Mayfield's rating in 10 of his 14 games played.  If that is your barometer for "horrible" that means that Baker Mayfield was "horrible" in 10 games this past season.  Wow.  It's worse than I thought.

As to the extent of Baker's great offense, let's consider these facts. The Cleveland offense was ranked 20th in points scored, Bottom 1/3, in spite of being ranked 13th in total yards. A reflection on the quarterback.  22nd in Turnovers lost, despite being ranked #8 in fumbles lost.  The difference?  Interceptions.  A reflection on the quarterback. Ranked 21st in 1st downs, bottom 1/3rd.  Passes attempted and touchdowns 11th, top 1/3rd.  Yards 14th top half.  All seemingly good. He threw the ball down the field.  We knew that.  Now for that pesky interception statistic. 26th.  Not very good at all.  Their rushing statistics were middle of the league for attempts and yards, top 1/3 in scoring and yards per attempt. In other words their rushing game was as good as if not a little bit better than their passing game.  Their percentage of drives ending in a score was 27th in the league.  Poor, and a reflection on the quarterback. Average time per drive was 31st again not good, and a reflection on the quarterback. As was the average number of plays/drive, where they ranked 29th.  They had trouble sustaining and maintaining drives.  This may explain their 3rd down conversion rate, 27th in the league. Fourth down conversion rate was 28th, not very dynamic.  Good thing he has that record for TD throws by a rookie.  Otherwise they may have to consider drafting another QB.

Sam only "locked in" at the beginning of the season, and just before the  "benching".  Other than that I was quite impressed with his read progressions, and his ability to go with the second and third options, despite running for his life. I agree with the solid B ranking. Thanks so much. In closing I will quote the words of a very great man in response to my "judgement of  Baker Mayfield, and I quote: "However, I'll keep trying to make the point he hasn't got there yet, and it amazes me how many people are so certain he will and the other rookie QBs won't." 😀

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27 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

The plot thickens

According to Ralph Vacchiano of SNY, "many NFL sources" believe the Cardinals are targeting Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray with the top pick in April's draft.

The rumor mill is firing on all cylinders this time of year, so we're taking this report with a grain of salt. With that said, this is obviously not the first time Murray has been linked to the Cardinals. Kliff Kingsbury famously asserted that he would draft Murray first overall if he had the chance, though that was before the Cardinals hired him as head coach. One source told Vacchiano that Murray "fits exactly what Kingsbury wants to do" while another said "it's a perfect match." Despite an underwhelming rookie year, it's still difficult to believe Arizona would throw in the towel so soon on 2018 first-rounder Josh Rosen. However, if the Cardinals do decide to shop Rosen, the quarterback-needy Giants would likely be one of his top suitors.

Source: SNY.com
Mar 1, 2019, 2:56 PM

 

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's most likely a ……..

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17 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

OK.  The Miami was game #9. To tie he would have had to have 14 interceptions in the last 7 games.  So, he would have had to get worse in order for that to be true.  As you know he didn't. Peyton had 26 TD's in 16 games, and threw the ball  575  times.  Of course he had more TD passes. His TD% was .4% higher than Sam's.  His interception% was 1.3% higher than Sam's.  Advantage Darnold.  I'm not sure that sitting Darnold an extra two weeks was to his advantage.  As for the Patriocheat game, Sam's QBR  that game was 73.6.  That rating was higher than Baker Mayfield's rating in 10 of his 14 games played.  If that is your barometer for "horrible" that means that Baker Mayfield was "horrible" in 10 games this past season.  Wow.  It's worse than I thought.

As to the extent of Baker's great offense, let's consider these facts. The Cleveland offense was ranked 20th in points scored, Bottom 1/3, in spite of being ranked 13th in total yards. A reflection on the quarterback.  22nd in Turnovers lost, despite being ranked #8 in fumbles lost.  The difference?  Interceptions.  A reflection on the quarterback. Ranked 21st in 1st downs, bottom 1/3rd.  Passes attempted and touchdowns 11th, top 1/3rd.  Yards 14th top half.  All seemingly good. He threw the ball down the field.  We knew that.  Now for that pesky interception statistic. 26th.  Not very good at all.  Their rushing statistics were middle of the league for attempts and yards, top 1/3 in scoring and yards per attempt. In other words their rushing game was as good as if not a little bit better than their passing game.  Their percentage of drives ending in a score was 27th in the league.  Poor, and a reflection on the quarterback. Average time per drive was 31st again not good, and a reflection on the quarterback. As was the average number of plays/drive, where they ranked 29th.  They had trouble sustaining and maintaining drives.  This may explain their 3rd down conversion rate, 27th in the league. Fourth down conversion rate was 28th, not very dynamic.  Good thing he has that record for TD throws by a rookie.  Otherwise they may have to consider drafting another QB.

Sam only "locked in" at the beginning of the season, and just before the  "benching".  Other than that I was quite impressed with his read progressions, and his ability to go with the second and third options, despite running for his life. I agree with the solid B ranking. Thanks so much. In closing I will quote the words of a very great man in response to my "judgement of  Baker Mayfield, and I quote: "However, I'll keep trying to make the point he hasn't got there yet, and it amazes me how many people are so certain he will and the other rookie QBs won't." 😀

Nice work, but never mind this Joe, get over to the new uni thread... priceless.

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On 2/28/2019 at 9:57 AM, FO-Ti said:

Lol where are all the height skeptics now? He's a half an inch shorter than Russell Wilson, I don't think his size will be much of an issue. I wouldn't feel too good about my future in Arizona if I'm Rosen right about now. 

Trade Rosen to the Giants already

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