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Do Jets double dip at pass rusher in FA and draft?


Bronxville Jets Fan

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Say the Jets sign someone like Fowler or Houston, do they still take Josh Allen at 3?  I know Cags is a BPA guy, but I'm wondering if Q Williams is more likely to become the pick (assuming no trade down worthwhile opportunities) if the Jets get their pass rusher in FA.  Thoughts?  

 

Personally, I'm not averse to doubling down on edge guys given the void we have had at that position for the past 10+ years.

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23 minutes ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

Say the Jets sign someone like Fowler or Houston, do they still take Josh Allen at 3?  I know Cags is a BPA guy, but I'm wondering if Q Williams is more likely to become the pick (assuming no trade down worthwhile opportunities) if the Jets get their pass rusher in FA.  Thoughts?  

 

Personally, I'm not averse to doubling down on edge guys given the void we have had at that position for the past 10+ years.

Well the 1st guy hasn't really shown anything yet & has Definitely Not lived up to his 1st rd draft status & the 2nd, who although has played relatively well, is aging out... so imo, I don't see why Allen would Not be the pick if he's the highest rated player on their board when they pick.

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I think double dipping at most positions is possible. We need OL and I can see both FA and the draft being used. Edge is a need and I can see both FA and draft there too. RB? Yep. WR? Yep.  LB? yes sir.  CB? sure.  

We're really only good with QB, K, P, S and maybe TE but I could totally see us taking another one this year. Maybe not in FA but depending how the draft plays out I could see a young TE coming in too. 

Short answer after the long rant?  Yes I can see that. 

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Doubling up is the minimum Maccagnan needs to do, he should consider "tripling up".
Houston is a MUST sign since he's been cut, we then should add another pass rusher
like Flowers, Zadarius Smith, Preston Smith or Barr.  Then after trading down
in the first round we should look for someone else like Chase Winovich (Michigan)
in the 2nd or 3rd rounds

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4 minutes ago, KRL said:

Doubling up is the minimum Maccagnan needs to do, he should consider "tripling up".
Houston is a MUST sign since he's been cut, we then should add another pass rusher
like Flowers, Zadarius Smith, Preston Smith or Barr.  Then after trading down
in the first round we should look for someone else like Chase Winovich (Michigan)
in the 2nd or 3rd rounds

Houston isnt cut just yet. They’re trying to work out a trade before they have to cut him.

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Even if they bring in Houston/any vet edge rusher, they need to draft a DE/OLB who can spot some reps and grow into the eventual starter. That doesn't force you into taking one at 3, and ideally you can trade down, cover more needs and find a nice fit in round 2-3.

And honestly with Jenkins and Luvu as depth, that would not be a bad way forward. 

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Don't F around Mac.  don't hold on to your money like its gold.  Get Houston!  Players are not  running to play with the Jets so show them how much we want them.   Colts are a scary team to compete against in FA with their success last year and Luck staying healthy.

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38 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Houston isnt cut just yet. They’re trying to work out a trade before they have to cut him.

What is your opinion of Rashan Gary? Personally, I am wary of guys who under perform in college, and then blow out the combine. On the other hand, I really like his teammate, Chase Winovich. The eye test tells me, at least, that he is a better football player. You watch the tape, he is everywhere. How do you see it?

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17 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Don't F around Mac.  don't hold on to your money like its gold.  Get Houston!  Players are not  running to play with the Jets so show them how much we want them.   Colts are a scary team to compete against in FA with their success last year and Luck staying healthy.

Don't forget the Browns. Word is they will be in on Houston and Mosley also. We're not bidding in a vacuum.

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When you're a team like the Jets, completely void of talent with the amount of cap space they have available; they should be double dipping at every single position on the field.  Signing 2 FA's to the same position or drafting a position they filled in FA.  Depth is a good thing.  Great teams have it and in this particular scenario, you can never have enough pass rushers.  

Big Mac's entire goal when FA hits should be to fill as many holes as possible via FA to give him flexibility in the draft.  When you have as many needs at the Jets, you dont want force a pick for need vs. BAP.  The Jets need high end talent desperately. 

So yes, go sign Houston or Fowler and still draft Allen if he's your guy.

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1 hour ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

Say the Jets sign someone like Fowler or Houston, do they still take Josh Allen at 3?  I know Cags is a BPA guy, but I'm wondering if Q Williams is more likely to become the pick (assuming no trade down worthwhile opportunities) if the Jets get their pass rusher in FA.  Thoughts?  

 

Personally, I'm not averse to doubling down on edge guys given the void we have had at that position for the past 10+ years.

I think adding Houston and either Josh Allen or Nick Bosa would do wonders for this defense. Bring back like a guy like Henry Anderson and unleash Big Cat now that he’s not getting doubled all game and we could have a serious pass rush going on 

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1 hour ago, section314 said:

What is your opinion of Rashan Gary? Personally, I am wary of guys who under perform in college, and then blow out the combine. On the other hand, I really like his teammate, Chase Winovich. The eye test tells me, at least, that he is a better football player. You watch the tape, he is everywhere. How do you see it?

Rashan Gary is an athletic guy. Lots to like about him as a prospect. Just not for us. Chase Winvoich is a guy who I hope we draft, actually. He has the necessary ball instincts to play and he’s a seasoned player coming in as a senior with a lot of starts under his belt. Disciplined in the run game and comes off quick to the ball.

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7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Rashan Gary is an athletic guy. Lots to like about him as a prospect. Just not for us. Chase Winvoich is a guy who I hope we draft, actually. He has the necessary ball instincts to play and he’s a seasoned player coming in as a senior with a lot of starts under his belt. Disciplined in the run game and comes off quick to the ball.

I think we have to get back into the 2nd to get Chase.

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2 hours ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

Say the Jets sign someone like Fowler or Houston, do they still take Josh Allen at 3?  I know Cags is a BPA guy, but I'm wondering if Q Williams is more likely to become the pick (assuming no trade down worthwhile opportunities) if the Jets get their pass rusher in FA.  Thoughts?  

 

Personally, I'm not averse to doubling down on edge guys given the void we have had at that position for the past 10+ years.

I think so. I think barring a trade down that is what they are going to do

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45 minutes ago, section314 said:

I think we have to get back into the 2nd to get Chase.

Probably. Unless we get lucky and he slips into the top of the 3rd. Although I’d love to have Winovich on the team, probably should go in a different direction than MLB with the two 3rd rounders that we have.

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With the $ we hopefully won’t spend on Bell...We should sign 2 edge rushers.

Ideally, a combination of 

Preston Smith & Justin Houston or Za’Darius Smith & Justin Houston.

After signing 2, we should still draft one high at 3 or if we trade down to replace Houston after a couple of years. You can never have enough pressure and we haven’t had any in over a decade.

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4 hours ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

I know Cags is a BPA guy, but I'm wondering if Q Williams is more likely to become the pick (assuming no trade down worthwhile opportunities) if the Jets get their pass rusher in FA.  Thoughts?  

I don't know who Cags is but I like his thinking.  If we can't trade down, we would be lucky to get Quinnen Williams at the #3 spot.  Either he or Bosa will be there, making the sting of not trading down, hurt a little less.  Josh Allen is the worst case scenario consolation prize.  Must get an effective pass rusher in free agency to make this line a potent unit.  Anything less than two additions to the line is like pissing into the wind.

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Nobody will offer a trade. If they know they won't  resign him they will just wait until he is released. 

Agree wholeheartedly with you that two edge rushers is not a problem to complain about in general, especially since Houston would not likely be a long term solution anyway, but why wouldn't anyone offer a trade?

He only just turned 30 in January. In a market where Suh - douchebagginess and all, which many coaches/GMs wouldn't want to touch - commanded $14MM as a 31 year-old FA a year earlier, Houston isn't likely to sign for much less as a FA. Might as well keep him at this contract (at least for the first year) with the tradeoff being there isn't any guaranteed money (ok there's a $250K workout bonus he'll get in the spring). If he acts like a lazy douche or looks slow or out of shape, which is unexpected, then just cut him in August and it costs only the throwaway 7th rounder and nominal $. I'd surrender that late rounder before looking to sign him as a FA, which would then come with multi-team bidding competition, contract negotiations while we're trying to sign other FAs, plus significant 1st year guarantees and quite possibly more than that 1st year. Nah, just leave it alone and if he's worth keeping for 2020, but just not at $17MM, then extend him through 2021 or a fluff 2-year extension to 2022 to lower his number a year from now. But he's not going to just take a pay cut because we want him to. Not when there's over a billion dollars in cumulative cap space available. 

You think we're serious 2019 SB contenders? If not then we should be looking at investments that last past 2019, and unless he's still a real pass rushing force in 2020 and/or 2021 this isn't a forward-thinking move. $15MM for a 30 year-old pass rusher is an expense not an investment. Especially if the first 2019 draft pick that goes to the offense will be round 3 at the earliest. Fine missing-piece pickup for a real SB run (like LAR signing Suh for the year) but a rather large potential waste otherwise. I guess he'd help with Bosa's early development, should he slip to #3, but I'd rather toss that money around to make sure we don't get outbid for a single FA OLman or offensive skill player we covet. Those are still more of the investment type, even if they're only short term as well, since the development they aid in can live beyond their own presence (not unlike Faneca's impact on Brick/Mangold). 

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You can't really have a plan for the draft until you know who falls to you and whether you can trade back. 

If I had to guess, the plan is to sign at least 1 legit  edge rusher and 2 legit OL. That way we aren't forced to reach for one or the other in the draft. 

No matter what we do in free agency, if we are drafting at 3 or 6 or 15, I think Macc will take the BPA whether that is another edge rusher, OL, WR, RB (in the 15 range obviously not at 3), CB. It's not like we are stacked at any of those positions that we can write off any player from those positions. 

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree wholeheartedly with you that two edge rushers is not a problem to complain about in general, especially since Houston would not likely be a long term solution anyway, but why wouldn't anyone offer a trade?

He only just turned 30 in January. In a market where Suh - douchebagginess and all, which many coaches/GMs wouldn't want to touch - commanded $14MM as a 31 year-old FA a year earlier, Houston isn't likely to sign for much less as a FA. Might as well keep him at this contract (at least for the first year) with the tradeoff being there isn't any guaranteed money (ok there's a $250K workout bonus he'll get in the spring). If he acts like a lazy douche or looks slow or out of shape, which is unexpected, then just cut him in August and it costs only the throwaway 7th rounder and nominal $. I'd surrender that late rounder before looking to sign him as a FA, which would then come with multi-team bidding competition, contract negotiations while we're trying to sign other FAs, plus significant 1st year guarantees and quite possibly more than that 1st year. Nah, just leave it alone and if he's worth keeping for 2020, but just not at $17MM, then extend him through 2021 or a fluff 2-year extension to 2022 to lower his number a year from now. But he's not going to just take a pay cut because we want him to. Not when there's over a billion dollars in cumulative cap space available. 

You think we're serious 2019 SB contenders? If not then we should be looking at investments that last past 2019, and unless he's still a real pass rushing force in 2020 and/or 2021 this isn't a forward-thinking move. $15MM for a 30 year-old pass rusher is an expense not an investment. Especially if the first 2019 draft pick that goes to the offense will be round 3 at the earliest. Fine missing-piece pickup for a real SB run (like LAR signing Suh for the year) but a rather large potential waste otherwise. I guess he'd help with Bosa's early development, should he slip to #3, but I'd rather toss that money around to make sure we don't get outbid for a single FA OLman or offensive skill player we covet. Those are still more of the investment type, even if they're only short term as well, since the development they aid in can live beyond their own presence (not unlike Faneca's impact on Brick/Mangold). 

Realistically, I don't think anyone is expecting the Jets to go to a SB next season so yes, if we are looking towards the future, Houston likely will not be part of it short of the mentor role you mentioned. I was just stating when other GM's are pretty sure you have no intention of signing the player, they won't trade draft picks for something they can just buy for cash. Cap space is not as valuable as draft picks. There are always ways to create cap space but picks are finite. 

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Realistically, I don't think anyone is expecting the Jets to go to a SB next season so yes, if we are looking towards the future, Houston likely will not be part of it short of the mentor role you mentioned. I was just stating when other GM's are pretty sure you have no intention of signing the player, they won't trade draft picks for something they can just buy for cash. Cap space is not as valuable as draft picks. There are always ways to create cap space but picks are finite. 

7th round draft picks aren't valuable, though.

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