What player available at #3 would make pick untradeable?

[section314]

Last year, it's obvious that Gettleman would not listen to any offer when he could get Barkley. This year, who is the one guy that, if on the board at #3, no matter how sweet the deal offered to us, you would not even consider trading out of that spot? My answer, based on the fact that we got our QB last year, is nobody. Who would it be for you?

[New York Mick]

No one. There’s too many holes not to trade back. Bosa is the only IMO to even consider but they need to fix the offense or it’s pointless. 

[section314]

Just now, New York Mick said:

No one. There’s too many holes not to trade back. Bosa is the only IMO to even consider but they need to fix the offense or it’s pointless. 

Sounds like we are on the same page. We need players, not A player.

[RedBeardedSavage]

Quinnen Williams. 

Right now, we're probably best served by sliding down and taking 2 of the 3 of these guys in the late 1/early 2: Andre Dillard, Paris Campbell, Chris Lindstrom. 

But I think QW will be a star. A lot depends on how we help Sam in free agency.  The more improvement I see on offense before the draft, the less I feel obligated to force offensive players in the draft.  

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Last year, it's obvious that Gettleman would not listen to any offer when he could get Barkley. This year, who is the one guy that, if on the board at #3, no matter how sweet the deal offered to us, you would not even consider trading out of that spot? My answer, based on the fact that we got our QB last year, is nobody. Who would it be for you?

The old quality vs. quantity debate and it's even tougher in the Jets situation right now because they both dont have a full roster with any significant depth and they lack elite talent or at least player who possess elite talent.  So, I'd argue that getting elite talent on the roster would  be more impactful than getting a bunch of JAG's (and I'm assuming that to be the case based on Mac's drafting history).  They have $$$, fill holes with $$$, draft for elite talent to build a future.  

So with that said; if Bosa or Allen are there, I'd pull the trigger unless a team blows you away with a deal. 

[cant wait]

bosa

[kdels62]

I hate to take the easy way out but it depends on free agency. There’s no can’t miss CB, WR or OT in this draft so no position is creates an untouchable player. It’s all for sale in my mind.

[Stark]

Bosa makes it to 3 and you run that pick to the podium. Kid is a potential elite pass rusher, I don't see how you can pass on that. 

[Lray]

Such a tough question but only Bosa would make me think twice about trading back.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[nycdan]

It really comes down to what you project from these guys.  If you see Khalil Mack in Josh Allen, you take him and don't second guess.  If you see Aaron Donald in QW, same thing.  With Bosa, I guess you are looking for his brother.  I would take any of those guys if the comps were guaranteed and not trade down.  Because 1 superstar and 1 JAG is probably more valuable than 2 good players.  

[cant wait]

9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

It really comes down to what you project from these guys.  If you see Khalil Mack in Josh Allen, you take him and don't second guess.  If you see Aaron Donald in QW, same thing.  With Bosa, I guess you are looking for his brother.  I would take any of those guys if the comps were guaranteed and not trade down.  Because 1 superstar and 1 JAG is probably more valuable than 2 good players.  

I think nick is going to be better than his brother, the 1.55 second 10 yard split and 4.1 short shuttle are really elite for a guy his size

[nycdan]

7 minutes ago, cant wait said:

I think nick is going to be better than his brother, the 1.55 second 10 yard split and 4.1 short shuttle are really elite for a guy his size

[Philc1]

Any of Bosa, Allen or QW

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, Stark said:

Bosa makes it to 3 and you run that pick to the podium. Kid is a potential elite pass rusher, I don't see how you can pass on that. 

But he plays defense!

[New York Mick]

5 hours ago, Stark said:

Bosa makes it to 3 and you run that pick to the podium. Kid is a potential elite pass rusher, I don't see how you can pass on that. 

Easy. If someone offers you enough to pass on him. You could put LT or Reggie White on this team and they’re still not winning. 

[Stark]

12 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Easy. If someone offers you enough to pass on him. You could put LT or Reggie White on this team and they’re still not winning. 

maybe, maybe not depends on what is "enough". If we are going to trade out I want no less than "pick value" and I'm holding out for a little more, but knowing I would take pick value The question was asked, I answered with the 1 player I would not want to trade out for.  

The issue is trading back doesn't guarantee us anything (faith in Mac??), yes more picks, but it could just be more "wrong/bad" picks or players that don't work out for us, which is par for the course. There may not even be a team that wants to trade with us @ 3.

 

[IndianaJet]

Let me go on record as someone who has doubts about Bosa. 

I saw him play in person for one game and he disappeared against a bunch of nobodies on IU's offensive line.

 

[kdels62]

15 hours ago, cant wait said:

I think nick is going to be better than his brother, the 1.55 second 10 yard split and 4.1 short shuttle are really elite for a guy his size

It’s elite for any size player.

[Philc1]

22 hours ago, New York Mick said:

No one. There’s too many holes not to trade back. Bosa is the only IMO to even consider but they need to fix the offense or it’s pointless. 

Luckily for us OLB has been a hole for 13 years now

[PepPep]

23 hours ago, section314 said:

Last year, it's obvious that Gettleman would not listen to any offer when he could get Barkley. This year, who is the one guy that, if on the board at #3, no matter how sweet the deal offered to us, you would not even consider trading out of that spot? My answer, based on the fact that we got our QB last year, is nobody. Who would it be for you?

Bosa or Allen. Maybe both. But depends on how the Jets view those two prospects. If either one is there, the Jets will definitely think twice before moving down, regardless of the offer. 

[section314]

8 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Bosa or Allen. Maybe both. But depends on how the Jets view those two prospects. If either one is there, the Jets will definitely think twice before moving down, regardless of the offer. 

This seems to be the consensus. Add to the fact that Gregg Williams has coached Myles Garrett and Aaron Donald, and he saw what they can do for a defense, and it may make the decision even harder.

[UntouchableCrew]

I think there's virtually zero shot that Bosa is there at 3 but if he is that's probably the only guy I'd prefer to trading back... Of course, he's probably the only non-QB that would have anyone trading up anyway.

[derp]

I think it kind of depends on tier and offer.

For example - let's say the Murray stuff is a smokescreen. Two of Bosa/Allen/Williams come off the board at 1-2. I'm not trading down unless it's with the Raiders and they want to move up for a QB or someone absolutely blows me away with an offer (maybe Giants offer this year's 2 and next year's 1 and 3 or something). I want someone in that tier unless I get a ton in return.

Flip side, say in some weirdo scenario the draft goes Murray to Cardinals, Bosa/Allen/Williams at 2, Raiders flip up to 3 to get a QB. Jets now sitting at 4 and the Giants call to secure that third QB. They're guaranteed one of Bosa/Allen/Williams is sitting there at 6 and I'd have no issue making the trade even if they just get their 2.

[section314]

1 hour ago, derp said:

I think it kind of depends on tier and offer.

For example - let's say the Murray stuff is a smokescreen. Two of Bosa/Allen/Williams come off the board at 1-2. I'm not trading down unless it's with the Raiders and they want to move up for a QB or someone absolutely blows me away with an offer (maybe Giants offer this year's 2 and next year's 1 and 3 or something). I want someone in that tier unless I get a ton in return.

Flip side, say in some weirdo scenario the draft goes Murray to Cardinals, Bosa/Allen/Williams at 2, Raiders flip up to 3 to get a QB. Jets now sitting at 4 and the Giants call to secure that third QB. They're guaranteed one of Bosa/Allen/Williams is sitting there at 6 and I'd have no issue making the trade even if they just get their 2.

Your weirdo scenario would be Nirvana. Could pit Raiders vs Giants for QB #2. Sell to highest bidder.

[PepPep]

2 hours ago, derp said:

I think it kind of depends on tier and offer.

For example - let's say the Murray stuff is a smokescreen. Two of Bosa/Allen/Williams come off the board at 1-2. I'm not trading down unless it's with the Raiders and they want to move up for a QB or someone absolutely blows me away with an offer (maybe Giants offer this year's 2 and next year's 1 and 3 or something). I want someone in that tier unless I get a ton in return.

Flip side, say in some weirdo scenario the draft goes Murray to Cardinals, Bosa/Allen/Williams at 2, Raiders flip up to 3 to get a QB. Jets now sitting at 4 and the Giants call to secure that third QB. They're guaranteed one of Bosa/Allen/Williams is sitting there at 6 and I'd have no issue making the trade even if they just get their 2.

I disagree. If the scenario was that Bosa/Allen went 1 and 2 and we had a choice between Q.W. or trading down with the Giants so they can move up for a QB, I would opt for trading down. Why? Because odds are J.Williams-OT will still be on the board at 6 and I would be more than happy to take him along with the Giants 2nd rounder and a first next year (or whatever is fair). J.Williams is a great fallback. 

The worst case scenario would be if the Jets traded down to 6 and J.Williams went 4th to the raiders or 5th to the Bucs...

1. Bosa

2. Allen

3. Haskins (trade with Giants)

4. Q.Williams

5. J.Williams 

6. Jets will have to go for G.Williams, Ed Oliver or explore another trade down scenario with someone who wants Murray. 

[derp]

8 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I disagree. If the scenario was that Bosa/Allen went 1 and 2 and we had a choice between Q.W. or trading down with the Giants so they can move up for a QB, I would opt for trading down. Why? Because odds are J.Williams-OT will still be on the board at 6 and I would be more than happy to take him along with the Giants 2nd rounder and a first next year (or whatever is fair). J.Williams is a great fallback. 

The worst case scenario would be if the Jets traded down to 6 and J.Williams went 4th to the raiders or 5th to the Bucs...

1. Bosa

2. Allen

3. Haskins (trade with Giants)

4. Q.Williams

5. J.Williams 

6. Jets will have to go for G.Williams, Ed Oliver or explore another trade down scenario with someone who wants Murray. 

Sure, but you'd take Williams at 6 and I wouldn't which is why I answered the question the way I did.

[nycdan]

2 hours ago, derp said:

Sure, but you'd take Williams at 6 and I wouldn't which is why I answered the question the way I did.

Don't like G Williams that high.  Oliver might warrant it, but I think at that point I start thinking about Jawaan Taylor or Clelin Ferrell (maybe R Gary) because they fit needs better and aren't really any less highly rated for the most part.

[GREENBEAN]

On 3/5/2019 at 1:41 PM, JiF said:

The old quality vs. quantity debate and it's even tougher in the Jets situation right now because they both dont have a full roster with any significant depth and they lack elite talent or at least player who possess elite talent.  So, I'd argue that getting elite talent on the roster would  be more impactful than getting a bunch of JAG's (and I'm assuming that to be the case based on Mac's drafting history).  They have $$$, fill holes with $$$, draft for elite talent to build a future.  

So with that said; if Bosa or Allen are there, I'd pull the trigger unless a team blows you away with a deal. 

Interesting argument.  And while I'm a major trade back person, you do make me think, which is rare.   Not that you're not thought provoking of course. I'd like to think the trade down would still keep us win the top ten. Still quite the batch of studs sitting there so the logic is sound assuming we can grab another of the upper their guys who slide down a bit. Not having a two removes that potential. 

But I will think more on this one. Well done.  Sitting at 3 with the mindset of "Hey, we LOVE Q or Allen or Bosa or whoever. If you want your guy you better pay up. Oh... and everyone else is looking to jump over you." That could be a calmer approach. I have a touch of panic setting in where I'm ready to take .75 on the dollar.  

[JustInFudge]

11 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Interesting argument.  And while I'm a major trade back person, you do make me think, which is rare.   Not that you're not thought provoking of course. I'd like to think the trade down would still keep us win the top ten. Still quite the batch of studs sitting there so the logic is sound assuming we can grab another of the upper their guys who slide down a bit. Not having a two removes that potential. 

But I will think more on this one. Well done.  Sitting at 3 with the mindset of "Hey, we LOVE Q or Allen or Bosa or whoever. If you want your guy you better pay up. Oh... and everyone else is looking to jump over you." That could be a calmer approach. I have a touch of panic setting in where I'm ready to take .75 on the dollar.  

Well, it's scenario driven of course.  If Bosa or Allen are there, it's going to take a very good offer to make me pass on what I consider, the 2 best prospects in the draft.  If Q is there, than 100% I trade down because I dont think a run stuffer is worth a top 3 pick and then obviously the landing spot has to be taken into consideration.  If you feel like maybe the Giants or Jags are good trading partners because you're not falling too far down the board, than you better have a comparable prospect you're targeting at 6 or 7...just not sure  who that it is?  

[GREENBEAN]

Well, it's scenario driven of course.  If Bosa or Allen are there, it's going to take a very good offer to make me pass on what I consider, the 2 best prospects in the draft.  If Q is there, than 100% I trade down because I dont think a run stuffer is worth a top 3 pick and then obviously the landing spot has to be taken into consideration.  If you feel like maybe the Giants or Jags are good trading partners because you're not falling too far down the board, than you better have a comparable prospect you're targeting at 6 or 7...just not sure  who that it is?  

Right. Having the, trade back at all costs, approach makes sense to me in situations like ours but it might be wise not to be too firm in the asking price. Even if bosa or Allen are there like your scenario.

I love Jonah, dilllard, Taylor and hockenson, fant and even Nkeal Harry as my top wr. Every one of them would be acceptable after a trade back. The best OL on the board would even be acceptable at 3 to me in some cases, but that’s a different conversation.

What I ask myself is whether or not the “elite” player picked at 3 can help the team more than two players (min) at 6-10 and a 2nd. Macc’s drafting record should not be a factor because he’s who we have. We can’t devalue 2nd rd picks because no second rdr has worked out yet.
Let’s say bosa is the guy. He has every bit the career his potential offers and he’s a demon. Does that help the team more than say Jonah Williams and Darrel Henderson in the 2nd?
I look at a guy like JJ Watt. He’s one of my favorite non jets and I remember a game a few years ago where he batted like 4 passes down had 2-3 sacks and basically terrorized us the entire game. I thought, what the F with this guy!!! He’s just the best imo.

What has that done for the Texans? He’s been down right dominant but they have not done very much all things considered. That’s my concern.
I like your point of adding elite characters and all you pointed out. It makes me think which is why I still frequent this part of town even though it’s a pretty unfriendly neighborhood.

But I don’t know. I still lean toward a trade back
Assuming we get some quality this year. Now that macc isn’t stuck drafting undersized hybrid LB’s for Bowles “ecotic” defensive schemes.


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[JustInFudge]

29 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Right. Having the, trade back at all costs, approach makes sense to me in situations like ours but it might be wise not to be too firm in the asking price. Even if bosa or Allen are there like your scenario.

I love Jonah, dilllard, Taylor and hockenson, fant and even Nkeal Harry as my top wr. Every one of them would be acceptable after a trade back. The best OL on the board would even be acceptable at 3 to me in some cases, but that’s a different conversation.

What I ask myself is whether or not the “elite” player picked at 3 can help the team more than two players (min) at 6-10 and a 2nd. Macc’s drafting record should not be a factor because he’s who we have. We can’t devalue 2nd rd picks because no second rdr has worked out yet.
Let’s say bosa is the guy. He has every bit the career his potential offers and he’s a demon. Does that help the team more than say Jonah Williams and Darrel Henderson in the 2nd?
I look at a guy like JJ Watt. He’s one of my favorite non jets and I remember a game a few years ago where he batted like 4 passes down had 2-3 sacks and basically terrorized us the entire game. I thought, what the F with this guy!!! He’s just the best imo.

What has that done for the Texans? He’s been down right dominant but they have not done very much all things considered. That’s my concern.
I like your point of adding elite characters and all you pointed out. It makes me think which is why I still frequent this part of town even though it’s a pretty unfriendly neighborhood.

But I don’t know. I still lean toward a trade back
Assuming we get some quality this year. Now that macc isn’t stuck drafting undersized hybrid LB’s for Bowles “ecotic” defensive schemes.


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Well, I dont love your JJ Watt example.  Since JJ Watt has been drafted, the Texans have only had 2 losing seasons and I think he was hurt.  lol.  They've been pretty consistent with him as their leader on D, multiple division titles, playoffs, 9,10,11,12 win seasons, etc.   Obviously now adding Watson, it's different than the Jets who already have Darnold.  So yes, if Allen or Bosa are JJ Watt trading would be stupid.  Either way, you cant put the lack of Texans SB's on JJ Watt.  Could you imagine that team over the years without him?

Like I said, I think it's situational and depends on the offer vs. the player.  In your example of Jonah+Henderson vs. Bosa/Allen - I'd prefer Bosa/Allen and I like those other dudes but I like other RB and G/T prospects in later rounds and in FA.  But drafting a young talented pass rusher is honestly the next best thing to drafting a FQB.  Whereas hitting on a G/T or RB technically in a non-Mac world, is much easier and teams do it all the time in one draft.

 

 

[section314]

20 hours ago, JiF said:

Well, I dont love your JJ Watt example.  Since JJ Watt has been drafted, the Texans have only had 2 losing seasons and I think he was hurt.  lol.  They've been pretty consistent with him as their leader on D, multiple division titles, playoffs, 9,10,11,12 win seasons, etc.   Obviously now adding Watson, it's different than the Jets who already have Darnold.  So yes, if Allen or Bosa are JJ Watt trading would be stupid.  Either way, you cant put the lack of Texans SB's on JJ Watt.  Could you imagine that team over the years without him?

Like I said, I think it's situational and depends on the offer vs. the player.  In your example of Jonah+Henderson vs. Bosa/Allen - I'd prefer Bosa/Allen and I like those other dudes but I like other RB and G/T prospects in later rounds and in FA.  But drafting a young talented pass rusher is honestly the next best thing to drafting a FQB.  Whereas hitting on a G/T or RB technically in a non-Mac world, is much easier and teams do it all the time in one draft.

 

 

Tell us ,Master Yoda, does such a place exist??

[cant wait]

21 hours ago, JiF said:

Well, I dont love your JJ Watt example.  Since JJ Watt has been drafted, the Texans have only had 2 losing seasons and I think he was hurt.  lol.  They've been pretty consistent with him as their leader on D, multiple division titles, playoffs, 9,10,11,12 win seasons, etc.   Obviously now adding Watson, it's different than the Jets who already have Darnold.  So yes, if Allen or Bosa are JJ Watt trading would be stupid.  Either way, you cant put the lack of Texans SB's on JJ Watt.  Could you imagine that team over the years without him?

Like I said, I think it's situational and depends on the offer vs. the player.  In your example of Jonah+Henderson vs. Bosa/Allen - I'd prefer Bosa/Allen and I like those other dudes but I like other RB and G/T prospects in later rounds and in FA.  But drafting a young talented pass rusher is honestly the next best thing to drafting a FQB.  Whereas hitting on a G/T or RB technically in a non-Mac world, is much easier and teams do it all the time in one draft.

 

 

yeah you gotta take the JJ watt or khalil mack if he’s sitting there- if the team still stinks you can still flip the player for a haul later like the raiders did 

[Gas2No99]

On March 6, 2019 at 3:29 PM, PepPep said:

I disagree. If the scenario was that Bosa/Allen went 1 and 2 and we had a choice between Q.W. or trading down with the Giants so they can move up for a QB, I would opt for trading down. Why? Because odds are J.Williams-OT will still be on the board at 6 and I would be more than happy to take him along with the Giants 2nd rounder and a first next year (or whatever is fair). J.Williams is a great fallback. 

The worst case scenario would be if the Jets traded down to 6 and J.Williams went 4th to the raiders or 5th to the Bucs...

1. Bosa

2. Allen

3. Haskins (trade with Giants)

4. Q.Williams

5. J.Williams 

6. Jets will have to go for G.Williams, Ed Oliver or explore another trade down scenario with someone who wants Murray. 

Very well thought out and I agree, but in the end it comes down to preference.

If your "worst-case" scenario were to occur, Jets STILL have choice of (and I'd be content at THAT SPOT considering value AND we recouped a 2nd rounder in '19) OT-Juwaan Taylor, WR AJ Brown, DE- M.Sweat/R.Gary, LB-D.White, DT- Ed Oliver.

 

Jets would STILL get a Top Defensive Talent in the Top 10 or can draft OLine/WR for Sam along w/another pick in the early 30's in the 2nd round and see who else "drops."

[Philc1]

Well according to Tony Nick Bosa isn’t even a top 10 OLB in the draft so forget him boys