Jump to content

5 Reasons the Jets SHOULD sign Le'Veon Bell


bla bla bla

Should we Sign Le'Veon Bell?  

73 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we sign Le'Veon Bell?

    • Yes
      47
    • No
      18
    • He's French
      10


Recommended Posts

It will be interesting if we sign Le'veon Bell where he's projected to go in fantasy football. The guy has been top 3 for years, it will tell you what football nerds think of Sam Darnold & what Macc has done with the Oline in free agency & the draft. 

Just look at the difference in Dallas when Prescott had Zeke & when he didn't. Like 2 different QBs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

 

Just dropped a new video, let me have it!

6 of 88 is 7%, also not sure why you included rounds 6/7, think the the arguement is generally grab one on the middle of draft (3,4,5).

The Martin point falls flat. Martin was way overpaid and paid well for too long, his best on the field attribute was staying healthy. He was a quality guy, hard working and good leader though, which is in some ways opposite to Bell so it's a false comparison.

I'd guess most people who think Martin was overpaid want nothing to do with Bell, which the Martin comparison only underscores the issue.

And of the 100% pro Martin crowd, those that value his on field production primarily probably already want Bell (there are plenty who do). And those who give more weight to his character are probably split on the issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, jgb said:

If Macc, with $100m, can’t win a competition for a player who only cares about the cash money then he should be tied to the next Chinese lunar orbiter.

Or he’s smart enough not to overpay for a player who only cares about money and isn’t going to be near as good as he was in Pittsburgh. Pitt has one of the best olines in the NFL, two 1000 yard receivers and a pro bowl QB. If they don’t fix the oline RBs, WRs and Edge are pointless. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Or he’s smart enough not to overpay for a player who only cares about money and isn’t going to be near as good as he was in Pittsburgh. Pitt has one of the best olines in the NFL, two 1000 yard receivers and a pro bowl QB. If they don’t fit the oline RBs, WRs and Edge are pointless. 

Macc was rejected by at least two FAs last year who took less money to play elsewhere. Mercenaries are exactly who Macc should be chasing—being a terrible GM has consequences.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Macc was rejected by at least two FAs last year who took less money to play elsewhere. Mercenaries is exactly who Macc should be chasing—being a terrible GM has consequences.

 

It’s not just the GM. Some players don’t want to play in NY/NJ where you’re money is less. Awful taxes, property prices, traffic etc. If I was getting $45 million to live the rest of my life and take care of my family and had a bunch of choices NY, NJ and Cali wouldn’t be my first choice.

Anyway, my point as always is without an oline signing playmakers isn’t going to help the team get to a super bowl. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

It’s not just the GM. Some players don’t want to play in NY/NJ where you’re money is less. Awful taxes, property prices, traffic etc. If I was getting $45 million to live the rest of my life and take care of my family and had a bunch of choices NY, NJ and Cali wouldn’t be my first choice.

Anyway, my point as always is without an oline signing playmakers isn’t going to help the team get to a super bowl. 

You can’t wait for the perfect time to sign position X or Y. A lot on this board said we shouldn’t draft a QB until we have weapons, an OL, or until Jupiter aligns with Mars. Enough. Get talent when you can.

Even if you are right (and you may well be) Macc is the wrong guy then by default. Zero OL in top four rounds ever???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

You can’t wait for the perfect time to sign position X or Y. A lot on this board said we shouldn’t draft a QB until we have weapons, an OL, or until Jupiter aligns with Mars. Enough. Get talent when you can.

Even if you are right (and you may well be) Macc is the wrong guy then by default. Zero OL in top four rounds ever???

He’s awful with the oline. Only jags in FA and lower draft picks. I’m hoping he’s wised up before it’s too late and we to start the search for another franchise QB. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, CTM said:

6 of 88 is 7%, also not sure why you included rounds 6/7, think the the arguement is generally grab one on the middle of draft (3,4,5).

The Martin point falls flat. Martin was way overpaid and paid well for too long, his best on the field attribute was staying healthy. He was a quality guy, hard working and good leader though, which is in some ways opposite to Bell so it's a false comparison.

I'd guess most people who think Martin was overpaid want nothing to do with Bell, which the Martin comparison only underscores the issue.

And of the 100% pro Martin crowd, those that value his on field production primarily probably already want Bell (there are plenty who do). And those who give more weight to his character are probably split on the issue.

How much was Martin overpaid by? 

What is Bell worth? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, CTM said:

6 of 88 is 7%, also not sure why you included rounds 6/7, think the the arguement is generally grab one on the middle of draft (3,4,5).

The Martin point falls flat. Martin was way overpaid and paid well for too long, his best on the field attribute was staying healthy. He was a quality guy, hard working and good leader though, which is in some ways opposite to Bell so it's a false comparison.

I'd guess most people who think Martin was overpaid want nothing to do with Bell, which the Martin comparison only underscores the issue.

And of the 100% pro Martin crowd, those that value his on field production primarily probably already want Bell (there are plenty who do). And those who give more weight to his character are probably split on the issue.

Oddly enough there are some who cross over (or at least fall in the "it depends" category). Even aside from the poison pill the Jets can't do anymore, I wouldn't advocate those Martin contracts - locking a team into that percentage of the team's salary cap for that long, to any RB from any era - while it's a pass-first league like today. Maybe you could argue that value back when the league-leading RB could rush for 1800 yards and the league-leading QB passed for just 2800, but that hasn't been the case since the 1970s (when there wasn't a salary cap or free agency anyway).

Re: Martin

The huge problem with Martin's contract is they started out paying him almost like a QB, while also paying QBs like QBs (O'Donnell then Vinny then Chad), on top of some of Tuna's other kooky contracts for his other "Parcells guy" players. It's the contract for a GM-HC who knew he was quitting coaching here after 3 seasons. 

  • Martin got a $6MM/year deal with $8MM up front bonus money in 1998.
  • The salary cap was $52MM at the time.  It's now $188MM.
  • Proportionally it would be like paying a RB about $22MM/year in 2019 with about $50MM paid in year 1, $12MM more in year 2, $13MM more in year 3, and $15MM in year 4 (correcting for the league's increasing cap ceiling in each year). Even in 2001 his cap number was still $8.5MM (equivalent to $22.5MM in 2019).
  • Bad as that is, it doesn't even include the two fluff years for 2002-2003 (get to that later).
  • Oh yeah, plus surrendering 1st and 3rd round draft picks that first year for the privilege, back when mid-1st rounders were paid about $1MM/year. (We gave up pick #18; Randy Moss was picked #21 and his rookie deal was 4.5MM over 4 years). That was on the heels of surrendering a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th for Parcells in the first place.

To get out of balloon salaries (on top of the past amortized bonus) for the final 2 years of that '98 contract and its 2 subsequent restructures, then at age 29 he received yet another $6MM/year extension in 2002 - with $13.5MM paid in year 1 - when the cap was still just $71MM (equivalent of $36MM paid in year 1 in 2019). That contract is certainly closer to the one Bell might receive, except Bell is 2 years younger with 2 fewer seasons under his belt (sitting out last year, and missing most of another prior year), and Bell doesn't also have any additive cap hits from prior years with the Jets to the tune of $6-7MM/year (correcting for the year) for the first 2 seasons.

That second deal was so bad that Martin had to be bribed into dragging out his retirement to post-6/1 in 2007, though everyone knew he was done after 2005 (really he was done during 2005), so the Jets could avoid a giant accelerated cap hit. In exchange for this "favor" to the team, he was paid another half million cash on the team's cap (as though he was still a player) with a phony 4-year extension in August, 2006. So the way it played out, his last carry for the Jets was in 2005, and was still ~$2MM on the team's salary caps each year in 2006, 2007, and 2008. That's how ridiculous even that second deal was, for as bad as the first one was. But hey, a NY Jet got a rushing title once in 2004 because a player with 1 yard less had almost a game's-worth fewer carries, while our own last game went into a 2-possession OT.

Was it all worth it? For many fans, yes, because at least we got that, and because of the unexpectedly-unusual length of Martin's career. Even with that, others among us wonder what might have been over all those years if all that money and the picks went to upgrading the team more evenly. 

Re: Bell

It's not a straight yes or no for me, even though I'd typically be way against it, and it's all because Darnold is still so young and entering his 2nd season. It fully depends how long the guaranteed money drags out. If he's truly cuttable without a mountain of dead space in year 3, I'm ok with it even if it's not good dollar-per-yardage value, just in the interest of greatly easing Darnold's development. If it's anything like Martin's first deal - which is impossibly unlikely - then the only way to escape the contract is to offer another extension where he's on the books into his mid-30s. Obvious no to that.

Not even Macc is dumb enough to do that, as he gets to benefit from the errors of so many before him in the salary cap era (unlike Parcells), and he couldn't get away with it anyway since he isn't nearly the NFL-royalty Parcells was back in 1998 (plus unlike most GMs, he was also the HC). So many more casual fans are well-versed today in terms of the cap and player/position value, with good online sites/tools just a click away. GMs even more so. Positional salaries for veterans are just far more slotted today than they were back in 1998, when NFL fans and FOs couldn't yet see the long term value of a lot of these record-setting deals. 

Back then, the deal was applauded by fans/reporters (if just for the excitement of stealing yet another valued member from NE). Today locking a team into 4 years and nearly $100MM for a RB, the GM would rightly have fans throwing rotten veggies and feces at him wherever he went.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasnt a fan of the initial Martin deal, we over paid in picks and money for a seemingly high character and dependable back who imo wasnt an elite game changer type. The follow up deal as you said was maybe even worse 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, CTM said:

6 of 88 is 7%, also not sure why you included rounds 6/7, think the the arguement is generally grab one on the middle of draft (3,4,5).

The Martin point falls flat. Martin was way overpaid and paid well for too long, his best on the field attribute was staying healthy. He was a quality guy, hard working and good leader though, which is in some ways opposite to Bell so it's a false comparison.

I'd guess most people who think Martin was overpaid want nothing to do with Bell, which the Martin comparison only underscores the issue.

And of the 100% pro Martin crowd, those that value his on field production primarily probably already want Bell (there are plenty who do). And those who give more weight to his character are probably split on the issue.

I included those rounds to make the percentage smaller than it would otherwise have been but even if you only include the 3rd and 4th the percentage is still going to be a relatively low hit rate.

As for Martin, the comp was more so to show that a championship caliber roster can be built with a RB contract that ate ups such a large portion of the cap. Wasn't trying to compare them other than that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jgb said:

Macc was rejected by at least two FAs last year who took less money to play elsewhere. Mercenaries are exactly who Macc should be chasing—being a terrible GM has consequences.

 

Josh McCown was our QB & Todd Bowles was our head coach!

McCown had 2 wins in 2 years with Cleveland & 5 with the Jets in 2017. Bowles was 24-40 in 4 years. Yea, free agents flock to a team like that with a 39 year old journeyman QB. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Josh McCown was our QB & Todd Bowles was our head coach!

McCown had 2 wins in 2 years with Cleveland & 5 with the Jets in 2017. Bowles was 24-40 in 4 years. Yea, free agents flock to a team like that with a 39 year old journeyman QB. 

 

Maybe there are explanations but the head man gets a demerit if the ship hits an iceberg 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Maybe there are explanations but the head man gets a demerit if the ship hits an iceberg 

I think Jet fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with our free agent haul & draft this year. Bowles was so clueless he'd miss the 1st question on Who wants to be a Millionaire?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I think Jet fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with our free agent haul & draft this year. Bowles was so clueless he'd miss the 1st question on Who wants to be a Millionaire?

Hope you’re right obviously but you’d expect to see some of Macc’s players succeeding elsewhere if it was all on bowles. Personally I think they were a perfect storm of suck together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, jgb said:

Maybe there are explanations but the head man gets a demerit if the ship hits an iceberg 

I certainly take a more optimistic view than most but I agree with @Jetster in regards to the McCown signing/lack of good signings last year. I think the outlook on this team is drastically different than it was in the past, having Darnold is such a massive benefit. That game where he went toe to toe with Rodgers was nothing short of impressive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I simply do not think Bell will be the player in NY that he was in Pittsburgh.

We lack almost everything he had there that led to his success:

-No O-line

-No Future HOF QB (yet).

-No Offensive Playmakers of any kind (Spare me the accolades of Anderlols).

And Bell has about a million hard-worn miles on that chassis.  And a year away from the game.

And if we sign him, he'll finally have his massive payday.  What will his motivation be then?

No, I just don't see it working out, much as I'd love Darnold to have a game-changer at RB.

If we sign him, I'll hope to be wrong, but to be honest, it's hard to see Macc getting a deal done without massive overpayment, so man, it's just risky everywhere tbqh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. He's good at running

2. He's good at catching

3. We need guys who are good at those things.

4. There aren't a lot of other guys that are good at those things available to us.

5. We've got money burning a hole in our pocket.

Bonus- he gets along with the President, so he cant be all that bad.

3 years, give or take 50 million, we've got a potential franchise QB on a rookie deal, let's use that space.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Tony MaC said:

1. He's good at running

2. He's good at catching

3. We need guys who are good at those things.

4. There aren't a lot of other guys that are good at those things available to us.

5. We've got money burning a hole in our pocket.

Bonus- he gets along with the President, so he cant be all that bad.

3 years, give or take 50 million, we've got a potential franchise QB on a rookie deal, let's use that space.

 

If Bell wasn't any good & had too many miles than the incredibly SMART Steelers brass would not have FRANCHISED HIM! Steelers were willing to pay him almost 15 million for 2018! Do you know what the difference is RIGHT NOW between the Steelers & the Jets? 1- They are paying a franchise QB, 2- They were paying a top 2 WR, 3- Juju Smith is a STUD and will need to get paid, 4- That top 5 Oline? THEY'LL want to get PAID! The Steelers couldn't afford to pay Bell long term, so they concocted a BS contract that looked good but had no substance. Bell & his agent said no way, but the Steelers held the cards, thought they could run him into the ground for another year and Bell did the only thing he could, sat out. 

I keep going back & forth but Le'veon Bell is a Super star RB! The Steelers don't just dole out the kind of money they were willing to pay him on the tag. Bell in the backfield behind a retooled Oline will make everyone else on offense that much more dangerous. Robbie, Quincy, Herndon, Sanu or Agholor (I think we'll trade a late pick for a vet WR) and most importantly Darnold. 

And Jet fans that attend games & those that have watched on TV this sorry azz offense for 7 years now punting 8 times in the 1st freaking half! Sign Bell, draft another RB at the top of the 3rd, cut Crowell who I can't stand & we're all set (Bell, McGuire, Rookie, Cannon). 

I've convinced myself that you don't pass up an opportunity to sign a guy that his peers have voted a top 5 player out of the 100 best players in the NFL. That's not an All Star vote, that's NFL players being asked to rate the best players in their game & this guy was ALWAYS IN THE TOP 5! That's f*cking respect from your peers & these are the guys that play against & with him. Spend some of Woodys money & help make Sundays fundays again for Jet fans. The 1st time Sam dumps the ball off to the flat & Bell leaves a LB flat footed & scoots into the endzone & gets mobbed by the Oline, the defense starts creeping up to contain him, Sam goes playaction & Anderson hauls in a 65 yard bomb, we'll all be reminded of the days of Wesley Walker & Freeman McNeil, Mickey Shuler & Al Toon. Days where we outscored Dan Marino in a shootout! Last year we got a glimpse of Sams potential in his shootout with Rogers. Rogers just had more weapons. Let's flip that script this year so Darnold can flourish. I'm back on board with a Bell signing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...