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kevinc855

Trading out making less sense

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52 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Totally disagree it’s about quality not quantity. How many picks have been busts? When you have a top 3 talent you take it 

Because that always works out. 

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3 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Because that always works out. 

Statistics wise it usually does 

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11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Let’s say they stay at three and draft Quinnen Williams. What’s the Jets record next year? And the year after? They’d still be a bottom-five team in the NFL, only with two really expensive DTs.

Just like with Sheldon, Wilkerson and Williams in his rookie year...... uggh!

Stud Edge Rusher, LT or Offensive Juggernaut will move the needle considerably along with Sammy's development

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28 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Statistics wise it usually does 

I’d rather them trade back and draft OL and ED, two OL, OL and CB or OL and DT then draft one DT. 

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50 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets need a volume of new players. While Mosley is infinitely better than Lee, it wasn’t a priority to sign an ILB. Similar deal with Crowder and Osemele. The only “need” spot the Jets filled with their fancy $100 mil was RB. They’re currently vacant at C, CB2, WR1, NT, ROLB, K, and KR. They needed upgrades at ORT, TE2, LOLB, and probably FS, but they whiffed all over the place. Coming into the offseason, they had three high-end players in Darnold, Williamson, and Adams. Now, after all that money spent, they have five high end players, with an outside shot Osemele regains form. If the opportunity comes to trade down and add two or three more picks in the first through third rounds, they’ve gotta do it, even if Bosa slides. Otherwise, they’re drafting Bosa and trying to make him an OLB because they’re stuck with Leonard Williams

I’m not sure how you don’t see Osemele as filling a need.  Who would you have playing left guard if not trading for Osemele?

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1 hour ago, SR24 said:

Mac gets worse and worse as his picks get later I wouldn’t trade back for the simple fact that his drafts have been god awful. Stay at 3 take Bosa or Allen and be done with it trading back is a dumb idea. This isn’t going to be a Mac smear post because I honestly think he’s one of the best GMs in the league when it comes to trades and he does ok in free agency but we can all agree my autistic pet llama could make better draft picks than this guy. Don’t give me the “WeLl He GoT SaM AnD JamaAL” apart from the 3 that fell in his lap he’s made 1 good draft pick and its Herndon. Stay at 3 take bosa and have a dominant controllable Edge for years. 

My autistic son is actually smarter than you, I can assure you of that.  And more sensible. 

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27 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

I would disagree with the highlighted statement. Mosley is a leader of men.... All Pro who will call the plays on D and get people in position. We have not had that in several years.

 

 

I also wonder if LB is more critical to Williams' scheme than DL. With Rex and Bowles we invested a lot in DL but seemed to scrimp and save on linebackers. We just tried to sign not one but two of the biggest FAs at LB. I don't think that's just coincidence.

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+1.   Trade back 3 to 5 spots and take J Taylor or J Williams to shore up the OL.   Darnold & Bell will look so much better with interior help.   I'm assuming we get back a 2nd and 3rd in compensation.   Lets ignore what we paid last year in compensation since it was a great QB draft.     

Plenty of good football players for us the fill out the roster with a high 2nd and three 3rds.   I'd expect WR , Edge and Center to get some refreshing.  

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Mac's ineptness over the last 4 years has lead us to this point where even when a few really good FA signings AND a good draft this year will still leave us with a thin roster at multiple positions.  However, an improved Darnold, an upgraded OL, and Bell will make this team fun to watch again and I do think there is enough here to make a big leap forward this year.  

I would draft a player on the offensive side of the ball with the 1st round pick so that either means reaching for an OL or WR or trade down.  I'm hoping for a trade down. 

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Unless it's two number one's ,this year and next, plus a number two this year,  you have to stay at #3.  Even then, people are not going to be happy. The top of the draft this year is that good. Allen vs. Bosa is a conundrum, lately I've been leaning more towards Allen, due to Bosa's injury history, and Allen's speed and upside.  Bosa is a massive talent, but is closer to his potential at this point,  while Allen's ceiling is limitless. 

Quinnen Williams is going to be the best player of the three, and will dominate more on a play by play basis.  But the exorbitant salaries being handed to middling free agent "edge rushers", has convinced me a premium edge, that doesn't come around every year, and will give you a four year window at a reasonable salary, virtually forces us to go this route.  Take Allen and call it a day.

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36 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

My autistic son is actually smarter than you, I can assure you of that.  And more sensible. 

I had no idea Maccagnans dad was on the site 

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If Bosa is there, definitely stay and take him

but I’m not sold on allen

 and if you really have to take another DT, trade back and take Oliver, who I think is going to be better than Williams 

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One factor to consider if you 'math' this thing fully is who the trade is with and if you think they are a possible #1 pick in 2020.  Lots can change, but Tua and Herbert are looking like they will be aggressively sought after players next year.  And I think demand for a QB will be higher next year after this being a bit of a down year.  The #1 pick next year will probably be worth a great deal more than this year, or at least it's a reasonable gamble.

So...I would put a small premium on the value of a 2020 1st from teams like NYG, MIA, OAK (enter Raiderholic with an objection in 3...2...) and WAS.  Because any of those teams could finish at the bottom (heck, even we could but that's not what this is about).  This used to be so much easier when you could just trade with CLE, wait, and cash the check but times have changed in the NFL.  

So while Bosa or Allen fills a glaring need with a premium player, and I would be happy with those picks, I think a package including a 2020 #1 from a bad team is very intriguing.  And if the dice come up short, you still have an extra 1st rounder you can roll into 2021 and try again for Lawrence.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Let’s say they stay at three and draft Quinnen Williams. What’s the Jets record next year? And the year after? They’d still be a bottom-five team in the NFL, only with two really expensive DTs.

I’m trying to think of a team that struggled with a rookie QB, got a new coach, and has an excellent pass rushing DT that went from 4-12 to 11-5 the next year.  Has that ever happened?

The job is to draft good players. Aside from QB an awesome “edge rusher” isn’t THAT much more valuable then an awesome DT. You just need good players. 

I dont care if it’s Quentin, Bosa, Allen or a trade down, we need to get a good first round player who will help this team get better. That’s it

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1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:

Cool. You take the DT or flash in the pan Allen. I'll take Jonah and Dillard or even Deebo Samuel in the 2nd.  (for example) 

Allen's no flash in the pan, though. He was a consensus Day 2 pick heading into his senior year, who put it together and took a leap to the top of Round 1.

 

That said, if you can get 6 and 17 from the Giants to move back from 3, you do it - especially if 2 of Allen/Bosa/Williams are still on the board, since there's a shot one of them will then fall to 6 anyway (Giants take a QB, then it's down to who the Raiders and Bucs take at 4 and 5)

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I'm torn. the Jets need a boat load of new talent because Mac drafts so poorly. But, how in the world do you solve that problem by giving Mac more picks? 

If Bosa or Quinnen Williams fall to the Jets at 3, it's a no brainer, you take him. And I think Mac would do just that. He excels at the no-brainer picks.  It's when he uses his brain that is the problem

If both are gone, I view other players as far less of a sure thing and have zero trust in Mac to make the right call. In that case, they might as well trade out of the pick for volume to increase Mac's odds of finding some decent players.

Bottom line, unless some team absolutely blows the Jets away with an offer that far exceeds the chart value for the #3 pick, the Jets need to wait until the draft to decide if they are going to use the pick or trade it. Fortunately, if Bosa and Q go 1 and 2 some QB hungry team may very well overpay for the #3 pick to secure their QB.

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

This is eerily similar to when Parcells trading back missing out on not 1 HOF player but 2 HOF players in Pace & Walter Jones. 

Im not trading back unless it's a HUGE haul including a #1 next year From a team you know is picking high! 

This is the last year the Jets are picking in the top 3 for a while with Sam on board. A James Farrior type draft doesn't cut it for me! 

You can add Peyton to the list because the Tuna wouldn't guarantee him he would take him with the first pick so he went back to school.. 

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1 minute ago, Doggin94it said:

Allen's no flash in the pan, though. He was a consensus Day 2 pick heading into his senior year, who put it together and took a leap to the top of Round 1.

 

That said, if you can get 6 and 17 from the Giants to move back from 3, you do it - especially if 2 of Allen/Bosa/Williams are still on the board, since there's a shot one of them will then fall to 6 anyway (Giants take a QB, then it's down to who the Raiders and Bucs take at 4 and 5)

That's the point. I don't pretend to know as much as many of the other posters here about college guys, but it seems to me Allen's senior year is the reason he shot up the draft board. I've watched and read a bunch on him this offseason. He looks like a good player and his senior year's 17 sacks is nothing to minimize. I just don't see him as that slam dunk that would preclude the Jets from trading from 3. He's dante Fowler from the 2015 draft to me (at least in his hype). If we take him, that's fine but like you said, he was a day2 pick his junior year. He did well with his choice and that's good for him. I'd prefer to have more picks than Josh Allen or Q Williams.

Then again I wanted Kevin White in 2015 so there's that.  lol  

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I’m not so sure AZ it taking a QB.  There is zero market for Rosen.  Most teams in need of a QB appear to be waiting til 2020.

AZ didn’t even attend Murray’s Pro Day yesterday.  Doesn’t mean they are not interested but if you are taking a QB at 1, a year after taking a QB at 10, wouldn’t you want as much info on him as possible?

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16 minutes ago, SR24 said:

I had no idea Maccagnans dad was on the site 

Right.  Double down on the stupidity.  Good choice.  "Guess yur parents didn't learn yu nuthin", huh Jethro?

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1 minute ago, Savage69 said:

You can add Peyton to the list because the Tuna wouldn't guarantee him he would take him with the first pick so he went back to school.. 

Wasn't it because he actually guaranteed to take him that he stayed in school?  He didn't want to come to play for the Jets and Bill Parcells is how I remember it.  

I'm sure I could look it up but I'd rather play the memory game with an old pal Savage. :) 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I remember when that was Jamal Adams

Bro c'mon, didn't you see him take out that mascot?

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7 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Allen's no flash in the pan, though. He was a consensus Day 2 pick heading into his senior year, who put it together and took a leap to the top of Round 1.

 

That said, if you can get 6 and 17 from the Giants to move back from 3, you do it - especially if 2 of Allen/Bosa/Williams are still on the board, since there's a shot one of them will then fall to 6 anyway (Giants take a QB, then it's down to who the Raiders and Bucs take at 4 and 5)

don't even need their other 1st round pick, doubt the giants would do that.  

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2 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I’m not so sure AZ it taking a QB.  There is zero market for Rosen. 

Link?

There will be a market the moment the Cardinals decide they're going to take Kyler Murray, that's for sure.  You don't base whether you pick a QB on what you think you'll get for the guy he's replacing, that's for sure.

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12 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I’m trying to think of a team that struggled with a rookie QB, got a new coach, and has an excellent pass rushing DT that went from 4-12 to 11-5 the next year.  Has that ever happened?

The job is to draft good players. Aside from QB an awesome “edge rusher” isn’t THAT much more valuable then an awesome DT. You just need good players. 

I dont care if it’s Quentin, Bosa, Allen or a trade down, we need to get a good first round player who will help this team get better. That’s it

Is Adam Gase Jeff Fisher in this scenario or

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2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

don't even need their other 1st round pick, doubt the giants would do that.  

I'd take next year's 1st.  We know the Giants will suck next year.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets need a volume of new players. While Mosley is infinitely better than Lee, it wasn’t a priority to sign an ILB. Similar deal with Crowder and Osemele. The only “need” spot the Jets filled with their fancy $100 mil was RB. They’re currently vacant at C, CB2, WR1, NT, ROLB, K, and KR. They needed upgrades at ORT, TE2, LOLB, and probably FS, but they whiffed all over the place. Coming into the offseason, they had three high-end players in Darnold, Williamson, and Adams. Now, after all that money spent, they have five high end players, with an outside shot Osemele regains form. If the opportunity comes to trade down and add two or three more picks in the first through third rounds, they’ve gotta do it, even if Bosa slides. Otherwise, they’re drafting Bosa and trying to make him an OLB because they’re stuck with Leonard Williams

I strongly disagree.  We need that bonified scary pass rusher.  A guy opposing QBs look for every time.  A guy who even though an OL shifts to his side still gets home for the sack/loss.  If you have that you might even see Williams with a big year.   I dont want extra guys who can play here or there.  Picking this high is a rare a opportunity to obtain high quality talent.   

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It makes as much sense or more than before.  the lineman named at the top of this drafter are being really overrated.

Bosa I would take at 3.  Allen I would think about if not great trade offer came. 

I will throw up if we draft Quinnen Williams.

 

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It makes as much sense or more than before.  the lineman named at the top of this drafter are being really overrated.

Bosa I would take at 3.  Allen I would think about if not great trade offer came. 

I will throw up if we draft Quinnen Williams.

 

I don’t think Allen is in the conversation anymore. It’s Williams, Bosa or trade down.

IMO

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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11 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Right.  Double down on the stupidity.  Good choice.  "Guess yur parents didn't learn yu nuthin", huh Jethro?

The guy with a few extra chromosomes in his genes calling other people stupid  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'd take next year's 1st.  We know the Giants will suck next year.

i could see the giants offering their 2nd and a 3rd this year to move up.  if that's the best offer the jets can get and bosa is off the board i would still take it. i don't care about the chart, the jets could use those extra picks.  they may still get the edge rusher they want or they could draft the best OL and have 4 picks on day 2.  that would be awesome.  there is no way the giants are giving up next year's #1 pick b/c it could be the 1st pick.

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6 minutes ago, SR24 said:

The guy with a few extra chromosomes in his genes calling other people stupid  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Listen asswipe, If you are so stupid and classless that you think it's funny to make fun of people with Autism, you are beyond help.  **** off.  And for your information Einstein, extra chromosomes lead to "Down's Syndrome", not Autism, your ignorance is quite impressive.

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20 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Allen's no flash in the pan, though. He was a consensus Day 2 pick heading into his senior year, who put it together and took a leap to the top of Round 1.

That’s what a flash in the pan is.

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4 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Listen asswipe, If you are so stupid and classless that you think it's funny to make fun of people with Autism, you are beyond help.  **** off.  And for your information Einstein, extra chromosomes lead to "Down's Syndrome", not Autism, your ignorance is quite impressive.

^has lots of chromosomes. The BEST chromosomes.

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1 minute ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Listen asswipe, If you are so stupid and classless that you think it's funny to make fun of people with Autism, you are beyond help.  **** off.

You picked a fight with me pal don’t throw punches get crushed and then cry about it. I hope you and your son come to and watch a ton of jet games this year and have a blast. Enjoy the rest of your day

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