Trading out making less sense

[14 in Green]

2 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Cool. You take the DT or flash in the pan Allen. I'll take Jonah and Dillard or even Deebo Samuel in the 2nd.  (for example) 

 

2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

So they are guarantee great starters but not a top 3? I’m lost 

Cmon man look at what he's saying. If we picked Q or Allen (who I love btw) and a team offered us Jonah AND Deebo (or Metcalf) for him that night, I'd make the trade in a second.

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

My autistic son is actually smarter than you, I can assure you of that.  And more sensible. 

Autism has nothing to do with intelligence. 

[BigRy56]

I think we should sit tight and take the pass rusher. We've waited far too long for a QB hunter. Bosa or Allen would be a fantastic grab and complete the front 7

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

3 minutes ago, SR24 said:

You picked a fight with me pal don’t throw punches get crushed and then cry about it. I hope you and your son come to and watch a ton of jet games this year and have a blast. Enjoy the rest of your day

I picked a fight with you cretin?? You make a tasteless ignorant "joke" then proceed to defend it?  Smart.  I hope you take some time to educate yourself about autism and take a class in human decency and compassion.  Thanks for the "invite" to the Jet games, Mr. Johnson.  Johnson is an appropriate moniker, because you surely are a tool.

[14 in Green]

59 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Unless it's two number one's ,this year and next, plus a number two this year,  you have to stay at #3.  Even then, people are not going to be happy. The top of the draft this year is that good. Allen vs. Bosa is a conundrum, lately I've been leaning more towards Allen, due to Bosa's injury history, and Allen's speed and upside.  Bosa is a massive talent, but is closer to his potential at this point,  while Allen's ceiling is limitless. 

Quinnen Williams is going to be the best player of the three, and will dominate more on a play by play basis.  But the exorbitant salaries being handed to middling free agent "edge rushers", has convinced me a premium edge, that doesn't come around every year, and will give you a four year window at a reasonable salary, virtually forces us to go this route.  Take Allen and call it a day.

There you go! It took you a little while, but you finally saw the light.

I'm so proud of you I could bust!

[SR24]

7 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I picked a fight with you cretin?? You make a tasteless ignorant "joke" then proceed to defend it?  Smart.  I hope you take some time to educate yourself about autism and take a class in human decency and compassion.  Thanks for the "invite" to the Jet games, Mr. Johnson.  Johnson is an appropriate moniker, because you surely are a tool.

 

Go away guy lol just move on Jesus 

[playtowinthegame]

If the Giants really wanted a quarterback in this draft and offered the 6th and 17th pick for our 3rd overall pick, I'd take it. 

[Dcat]

46 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I’m not so sure AZ it taking a QB.  There is zero market for Rosen.  Most teams in need of a QB appear to be waiting til 2020.

AZ didn’t even attend Murray’s Pro Day yesterday.  Doesn’t mean they are not interested but if you are taking a QB at 1, a year after taking a QB at 10, wouldn’t you want as much info on him as possible?

Arizona didn't attend because Kingsbury and crew have a private workout with Murray scheduled for (I think) next week.  If all goes well at the workout, he will surely be their guy.  

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, SR24 said:

I had no idea Maccagnans dad was on the site 

Man this was a good one, maybe on the line but I would have laughed at it 

49 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Right.  Double down on the stupidity.  Good choice.  "Guess yur parents didn't learn yu nuthin", huh Jethro?

Is this a NCIS ref?

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets need a volume of new players. While Mosley is infinitely better than Lee, it wasn’t a priority to sign an ILB. Similar deal with Crowder and Osemele. The only “need” spot the Jets filled with their fancy $100 mil was RB. They’re currently vacant at C, CB2, WR1, NT, ROLB, K, and KR. They needed upgrades at ORT, TE2, LOLB, and probably FS, but they whiffed all over the place. Coming into the offseason, they had three high-end players in Darnold, Williamson, and Adams. Now, after all that money spent, they have five high end players, with an outside shot Osemele regains form. If the opportunity comes to trade down and add two or three more picks in the first through third rounds, they’ve gotta do it, even if Bosa slides. Otherwise, they’re drafting Bosa and trying to make him an OLB because they’re stuck with Leonard Williams

[SR24]

3 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Man this was a good one, maybe on the line but I would have laughed at it 

Is this a NCIS ref?

 

[jetstream23]

10 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

If the Giants really wanted a quarterback in this draft and offered the 6th and 17th pick for our 3rd overall pick, I'd take it. 

I don't think the Giants (or anyone else) is coming up to #3 for a QB.  Rosen could be on the market for a trade and other than Miami (who may or may not sign Bridgewater and whom we wouldn't trade with anyway) I don't know if anyone is desperate enough to come up for a questionable QB like either Murray or Haskins.  If one of them drops to the Giants they might take him.....I don't see a trade up this year anywhere close to what we saw last year.

[prime21]

I'm not a mod but I would advise anyone who is going back and forth about a subject not get into words about Autism. 

If you want to learn more please visit

https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism

[greenwave81]

54 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

 

Bosa I would take at 3.  Allen I would think about if not great trade offer came. 

I will throw up if we draft Quinnen Williams.

 

Same here. 

Hiw well has taking the consensus ‘best player in the draft’ worked out for us while picking DTs and S’s?

unless Q is Aaron Donald good, an above average DT ( like Leonard Williams) isn’t all that in the grand scheme of things...they’re a dime a dozen. 

Now, an above average LT (and in general all OLmen) is worth his weight in gold as he protects your most valuable asset(s).

trade down if you can and draft impact OL IMO...or if no trade down is feasible, then it’s the best edge rusher. Stop drafting relatively non-impact positions at the top of the draft. 

[RevisIsland610]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Let’s say they stay at three and draft Quinnen Williams. What’s the Jets record next year? And the year after? They’d still be a bottom-five team in the NFL, only with two really expensive DTs.

They are not taking a DT with the 3 spot. They are going to take either Bosa or Allen if they stay there. Are you saying there is no immediate need for either of those players? Cmon man. 

[section314]

19 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i could see the giants offering their 2nd and a 3rd this year to move up.  if that's the best offer the jets can get and bosa is off the board i would still take it. i don't care about the chart, the jets could use those extra picks.  they may still get the edge rusher they want or they could draft the best OL and have 4 picks on day 2.  that would be awesome.  there is no way the giants are giving up next year's #1 pick b/c it could be the 1st pick.

I was thinking about what the Giants could do now that they have traded Beckham. They are getting roasted in the press, especially Mara. It's stuff usually reserved for our favorite team.? That said, in order to justify this trade at all to their fan base, you would think they have to come away with a FQB, or at the very least, a game changing pass rusher like an LT.  The easiest way would be to try to trade for Rosen, if indeed he is on market. If they don't like him, then you have to look at the draft, which is probably the way they will go. They have ammo to get to any spot, but going to #1 would probably be both 1"s this year, a 2 and next years 1, which may be too steep for a massive rebuild. They match up perfectly, chart value wise, with the Niners, if they gave #6 and #17 to go to #2. That leaves us. If Cards stay put and take Murray, and Niners want Bosa, Q Williams or anybody else for that matter, then they may have to give Macc a call. If QB or edge is there that they definitely "need to have," the price would be #6, 2nd rd#37 and either 3rd #95(from Browns...didn't have their own) or 4th#108.  Sorry to make this like one of ,@Sperm Edwards lecture's?, but I really think the possibility of this happening is better than people may think. Sometimes you can benefit from desperation, like the Colts did last year, and the Giants may be that team this year.

[SR24]

Signing Justin Houston and adding Bosa or Allen makes that defense 10x scarier 

[greenwichjetfan]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

This is eerily similar to when Parcells trading back missing out on not 1 HOF player but 2 HOF players in Pace & Walter Jones. 

 

Related to this, Parcells sucked so much that he also single-handedly cost us Peyton, and indirectly helped cost us belichick. He was a disaster.

Anyway, back to the topic, I was all in on trading down until Barr reneged. Now, stay and take the pass rusher that falls to us.

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

With the cards shopping Rosen around and most insiders whispering the cardinals are taking a qb at 1 it’s making less sense to me to trade out. Assuming the cards do draft qb quieten or bosa or Allen is ours for the taking. These are immediate game changing players and starters from day one. Impact players or as the prez say “dogs”. 

We could still grab a quality offensive lineman in the early 3rd round. Of course a lot depends on what the offer is for our pick but if it’s just another 1st round pick that takes us out of top 5 and a 2nd I’m not sold this is the best move. 

I think the only way you trade down now is with the Giants.  You go from 3 to 6.  You know the Giants would be drafting a QB.  That leaves you with Oakland and Tampa Bay.  It is DEFINITELY a gamble, but presuming Niners go Bosa, and you feel Oakland and Tampa does not go Allen and Williams, you can get back that 2nd rounder and a future pick, and STILL get one of the two.  BUT...it would still be a gamble.

 

[Jamax99]

Enough with the games Jets , we finally found our Qb now you need to find a pure pass rusher!   Its Bosa or Allen ,we need Quality!  Only way I trade back is if QB go 1-2 and we get a ton, and go back to 5 spot at most.   And get Qw or the top edge guys.   Let not forget  L williams is still one of the best players to come out of that draft,  I think he w still be in the 6-8 range today. 

[kevinc855]

2 minutes ago, Jamax99 said:

Enough with the games Jets , we finally found our Qb now you need to find a pure pass rusher!   Its Bosa or Allen ,we need Quality!  Only way I trade back is if QB go 1-2 and we get a ton, and go back to 5 spot at most.   And get Qw or the top edge guys.   Let not forget  L williams is still one of the best players to come out of that draft,  I think he w still be in the 6-8 range today. 

yep after years of abuse Jet fans love racking up draft picks more then wins. Its like the only thing Jet fans get a lot of. They want to hoard them when most amount to nothing. Get the game changer at 3 and be done with the gambling by trading down 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

32 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Is this a NCIS ref?

Bodine.  As in the Beverly Hillbillies. As in some clueless, backwoods, lummox.  Which is exactly what someone who thinks Autism is funny, is.

[Sully80]

I don't want to trade down. We don't have to resolve the #2 CB, C, LT, RT, OLB, WR #1 positions all in one draft. This is hopefully the last time in a while we'll be picking this high. Let's take a blue chip guy who won't ever hit FA, our Demarcus Lawrence/Von Miller. We could always trade back down next year out of the first or to the bottom of the first if we want to fill a bunch of needs. 

[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

i could see the giants offering their 2nd and a 3rd this year to move up.  if that's the best offer the jets can get and bosa is off the board i would still take it. i don't care about the chart, the jets could use those extra picks.  they may still get the edge rusher they want or they could draft the best OL and have 4 picks on day 2.  that would be awesome.  there is no way the giants are giving up next year's #1 pick b/c it could be the 1st pick.

Agree 100%

i would love to have a 2nd rounder back. Bu the end of the 3rd wed have tackle, center, wr and cb

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

3 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

I would be ok with Bosa. Even though he's almost guaranteed to be injured half of the time.  But Q Williams?  Really?  This song sounds the same as when Leo came out. He was going to be a day one dominator and he was only  20 years old. SO much room to grow. His ceiling couldn't be seen from the ground.  Consensus best pick who slid to number 6. 

I like Leo and all, and am really looking forward to seeing what Gregg Williams can get out of him, but come on. Every single year we hear about how great these guys are going to be.  Q is a DT guys!  A DT!  Haven't we been here before?  I'll even give you that he will be a good one, but he's a DT. I'll even say having him and Leo together may be really fun for a while. The Williams brothers with G.Williams as the big Daddy. So much can be done creatively with it. Blah Blah Blah.  Still. Top 3 pick on a DT?  Really? 

I hear the Parcells stuff, but that will never happen again. That was before the days of big hauls for the early picks. He thought he got good value. He didn't. He wasn't the best grocery shopper unfortunately. And can we admit none of these guys are Orlando Pace please? LT is the most important portion on the OL. If we can get a 2nd and a 1st next year to move back 3-5 spots you do it.  No questions asked. Take the next Edge if you'd like (OL for me) and get a center in the 2nd. That helps Darnold and the Jets much more than a friggin DT. For Pete's sake with this stuff! 

Good post.

The entire analysis regarding taking a DT when a team has a Top 5 pick should take no more than 1/2 a second, because those are the PREMIUM slots that should only be reserved for bona fide impact/game changers...

Is this DT on the same level as Aaron Donald?

Yes/No?

Answer: No......good bye.

Q. Williams doesn’t meet the criteria..sorry, let someone else take him.  I’m disgusted as it is knowing the Jets are going to pony up over 10mill for Leonard Williams, good thing Maccagnan made a huge score and great trade for Henry Anderson, he’s twice the player Williams is.

The pick at 3 must be someone who touches the ball, sacks the QB or protects Darnold’s blindside for 10 years....I’m only seeing “sacks the QB” using that criteria in the 2019 draft.

[tdoublee]

If Allen and Bosa are there at #3, the only team I trade down with is the Raiders at #4.

I ask for their late first (would settle for their 2nd rd pick), their center Hudson, and our 5th round pick back.

I think Chicago gave up three picks to move up one slot for Trubiski a couple years back.

[playtowinthegame]

38 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I don't think the Giants (or anyone else) is coming up to #3 for a QB.  Rosen could be on the market for a trade and other than Miami (who may or may not sign Bridgewater and whom we wouldn't trade with anyway) I don't know if anyone is desperate enough to come up for a questionable QB like either Murray or Haskins.  If one of them drops to the Giants they might take him.....I don't see a trade up this year anywhere close to what we saw last year.

Josh Rosen is PLAN B or PLAN C for teams looking for a quarterback in this draft. Cardinals will be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for Rosen. He will be traded to a team that missed out on Kyler Murray, Drew Lock, or Dwayne Haskins. 

Here are some teams I think could move up in the 2019 draft to get a quarterback:

Broncos: I wouldn't rule out the Broncos drafting a quarterback. Flacco is just a stop gap quarterback. 

Redskins: They only have stop gap quarterbacks. Case Keenum isn't their long-term answer, and neither is Alex Smith who's still waiting for his leg to finish healing. I could easily see Dan Snyder pull the trigger on trading for a quarterback should one they want fall to the Jets 3rd pick.

Bengals: Another team to consider is the Cincinnati Bengals who just hired Zac Taylor. He's saying the right things right now, but privately I bet you he wants a young quarterback to groom for his McVay Cloned system. I can see the Bengals getting him a quarterback he wants in this draft by trading up.

Lions: They've been stuck in purgatory with Mattew Stafford. How much longer do you think Matt Patricia wants Stafford tied to his career in Detroit. They might want to move up and get a guy like Dwayne Haskins.

Giants: Eli Manning will be there for one more year to mentor the next quarterback Gettleman brings in to lead the franchise into the future. I cannot see us trading with the Giants, but never say never. I'd easily take the Giants two first round picks for our 3rd overall pick. Gettleman has to produce a quarterback in this draft, and there will be competition for the top 3 in this draft. If the word gets out somebody is going to trade with the Jets to get let's say Drew Lock, and the Giants want him, I could see Gettleman calling Maccagnan. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Good post.

The entire analysis regarding taking a DT when a team has a Top 5 pick should take no more than 1/2 a second, because those are the PREMIUM slots that should only be reserved for bona fide impact/game changers...

Is this DT on the same level as Aaron Donald?

Yes/No?

Answer: No......good bye.

Q. Williams doesn’t meet the criteria..sorry, let someone else take him.  I’m disgusted as it is knowing the Jets are going to pony up over 10mill for Leonard Williams, good thing Maccagnan made a huge score and great trade for Henry Anderson, he’s twice the player Williams is.

The pick at 3 must be someone who touches the ball, sacks the QB or protects Darnold’s blindside for 10 years....I’m only seeing “sacks the QB” using that criteria in the 2019 draft.

there is something to be said for positional impact.  

[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Listen asswipe, If you are so stupid and classless that you think it's funny to make fun of people with Autism, you are beyond help.  **** off.  And for your information Einstein, extra chromosomes lead to "Down's Syndrome", not Autism, your ignorance is quite impressive.

Arent you the same guy that got pissed off at me because i saw gasse as being in the spectrum?

 

a word of advice:

1. My brother has schizophrenia. Its awful. If i got mad every time someone joking refers to another as being schizophrenic, i wouldnt live long. Futhermore, lots of gay jokes thrown around here. We all know and love gays. Do you see an uproar over that?

dude just because you got dealt a bad hand doesnt mean your the center of the universe. Get over it.

and finally, there are a slew of chromosomal abnormalities that involve extra chromosomes. Its not just Down syndrome. And its “down syndrome” not “downs” and certainly not “down’s”

ok that is all lighten up and stop being rude and explosive u look jerky

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

And if they spent their capital on "upgrades" at all those positions you'd be saying they overspent on JAGS. The Jets have gone the "quantity" route for years and got exactly what they paid for: mediocrity. Any team that expects to contend has to have a core of stars/leaders to build around. The theory that you accumulate more lower round picks and turn them into gold is pure fantasy. The odds of a player past the second round starting, or even staying on the roster drops considerably. If you land one or two guys that stick, a GM is doing well. The Antonio Browns and Tom Bradys are absolute outliers at the tail of the third standard deviation from the mean.

This is exactly right - they went after guys that can truly make an impact on the game.  Didn't just try and fill a lot of holes with upgraded JAGS - trading in a JAG for a little better JAG really isn't making the team better.  You need guys that will truly have an impact.

Mosley and Bell are exactly those types of players.  Osemele is a HUGE upgrade if he returns to form...

Crowder, also huge upgrade, quick, great hands - exactly what Darnold needs.

This is, without question, already an immensely more talented football team.

 

[section314]

9 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Josh Rosen is PLAN B or PLAN C for teams looking for a quarterback in this draft. Cardinals will be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for Rosen. He will be traded to a team that missed out on Kyler Murray, Drew Lock, or Dwayne Haskins. 

Here are some teams I think could move up in the 2019 draft to get a quarterback:

Broncos: I wouldn't rule out the Broncos drafting a quarterback. Flacco is just a stop gap quarterback. 

Redskins: They only have stop gap quarterbacks. Case Keenum isn't their long-term answer, and neither is Alex Smith who's still waiting for his leg to finish healing. I could easily see Dan Snyder pull the trigger on trading for a quarterback should one they want fall to the Jets 3rd pick.

Bengals: Another team to consider is the Cincinnati Bengals who just hired Zac Taylor. He's saying the right things right now, but privately I bet you he wants a young quarterback to groom for his McVay Cloned system. I can see the Bengals getting him a quarterback he wants in this draft by trading up.

Lions: They've been stuck in purgatory with Mattew Stafford. How much longer do you think Matt Patricia wants Stafford tied to his career in Detroit. They might want to move up and get a guy like Dwayne Haskins.

Giants: Eli Manning will be there for one more year to mentor the next quarterback Gettleman brings in to lead the franchise into the future. I cannot see us trading with the Giants, but never say never. I'd easily take the Giants two first round picks for our 3rd overall pick. Gettleman has to produce a quarterback in this draft, and there will be competition for the top 3 in this draft. If the word gets out somebody is going to trade with the Jets to get let's say Drew Lock, and the Giants want him, I could see Gettleman calling Maccagnan. 

Why not?  Plus, they would have advantage of letting young guy sit behind a vet like Dalton for a year. These young HC's want their own QB's, for sure. Look no further than the Cards.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

9 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

there is something to be said for positional impact.  

Meaning exactly what?

You just saw that you can trade a 7th Rd pick and get a player that is better than the 6th pick in the Nation.

You can’t trade a 7th and get a guy who flies off the edge and sacks the QB....those go in the Top 5 picks...as they should.

[JoJoTownsell1]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is exactly right - they went after guys that can truly make an impact on the game.  Didn't just try and fill a lot of holes with upgraded JAGS - trading in a JAG for a little better JAG really isn't making the team better.  You need guys that will truly have an impact.

Mosley and Bell are exactly those types of players.  Osemele is a HUGE upgrade if he returns to form...

Crowder, also huge upgrade, quick, great hands - exactly what Darnold needs.

This is, without question, already an immensely more talented football team.

 

So do  you trade down and accumulate more good players or do you stick at 3 and scoop up one of the lite defenders that are guaranteed to fall to us? 

I think if we can get a haul of picks like the Colts got from us last year we should trade back, if not I am more than happy with Bosa/Williams/Allen knowing there is a very good chance these guys are going to be impact players for 5-10 years. 

[Doggin94it]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

That’s what a flash in the pan is.

Not really, no.  A flash in the pan is an out-of-nowhere player who wasn't on anyone's radar, explodes onto the scene, and never hits anywhere near that level again. (See, e.g., Lin, Jeremy).  Allen's a guy who was seen as a higher end talent coming out of 2017 and who grew on a relatively natural curve. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

10 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Arent you the same guy that got pissed off at me because i saw gasse as being in the spectrum?

 

a word of advice:

1. My brother has schizophrenia. Its awful. If i got mad every time someone joking refers to another as being schizophrenic, i wouldnt live long. Futhermore, lots of gay jokes thrown around here. We all know and love gays. Do you see an uproar over that?

dude just because you got dealt a bad hand doesnt mean your the center of the universe. Get over it.

and finally, there are a slew of chromosomal abnormalities that involve extra chromosomes. Its not just Down syndrome. And its “down syndrome” not “downs”

ok that is all lighten up and stop being rude and explosive u look jerky

I didn't get dealt a "bad hand.  My son is a bright light and I am blessed to have him. And this has nothing to do with me. I'm sorry about your brother.  If you think making sophomoric jokes about people with disabilities  is OK, then you are no one to be giving anyone advice. Ask your brother how he feels about it.  As for looking "jerky", I'm not worried about it.  With your past comments and those of your "kindred" friend, I think the two of you have that pretty much covered.