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Discussion on centers


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12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

keep in mind Mac hasn't drafted a lineman high since he's been here (and the best one he's drafted was Shell in rd 5).

in 2016  Gase reportedly got into a screaming match with Dolphins owner Ross about paying money for guards (Gase was against it). 

who is going to pound the table for the line? 

prediction: line is not going to be a high draft priority, they will get guys but none as impactful as KO. prepare your body for this outcome 

 

5DF663AF-0B64-462F-B1E9-F0BC6452C7C6.jpeg

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They are the smallest lineman usually so in theory there are more around according to the Parcells planet idea. 

With that said they usually make the calls and shotgun snaps so they have a unique skill set. 

We need a starter by hook or by crook 

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22 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

There’s plenty of centers drafted in the first and second. 

Mangold 1st round

Fredricks 1st round

Unger 1st round

Pouncey 1st round

Pouncey 1st round

Hudson 2nd round

Wood 1st round

Kalil 2nd round 

 

There’s an even longer list of guys who should have been drafted instead of those guys.

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1 hour ago, KRL said:

Center remains a big need for Jets. I've been told NYJ had discussions with the top 2 free-agent centers--Mitch Morse & Matt Paradis-- but never actually made an offer to either one of them. Jets have reached out to available vets to gauge market value. Plus, draft is an option

Theres no way this is true...

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I think I can solve our problem at Center.....this is going to sound crazy....but here me out.

With only an $8 million signing bonus, Le'veon Bell is very tradeable commodity.

If we traded Bell during the draft, we'd take an $8 million hit to the cap this year, for acceleration of the signing bonus, but this would actually be a $500,000 cap savings because for the full year, Bell would count $8.5 to the cap.

We know SF was seriously interested in Bell.

If Murray goes #1 here's the plan - 

1) Trade Bell to SF for the #2 pick and their 3rd round pick.

2) Jets draft Bosa @ 2 and Allen @ 3 - Jets now have a mad crazy pass rush!

3) Jets trade 3-3 (SF 3rd round) and 3-4 (Jets 3rd round) to move back up into the top 10 picks of the 2nd round

4) Draft Center in the top 10 of the 2nd round!

Move over Macc....I'm coming for your job!!!!   

 

????

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11 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

I think I can solve our problem at Center.....this is going to sound crazy....but here me out.

With only an $8 million signing bonus, Le'veon Bell is very tradeable commodity.

If we traded Bell during the draft, we'd take an $8 million hit to the cap this year, for acceleration of the signing bonus, but this would actually be a $500,000 cap savings because for the full year, Bell would count $8.5 to the cap.

We know SF was seriously interested in Bell.

If Murray goes #1 here's the plan - 

1) Trade Bell to SF for the #2 pick and their 3rd round pick.

2) Jets draft Bosa @ 2 and Allen @ 3 - Jets now have a mad crazy pass rush!

3) Jets trade 3-3 (SF 3rd round) and 3-4 (Jets 3rd round) to move back up into the top 10 picks of the 2nd round

4) Draft Center in the top 10 of the 2nd round!

Move over Macc....I'm coming for your job!!!!   

 

????

Or more realistically:

1)  SF laughs in your face

2)  No high or middle tier FA ever talks to your team again, short of an even more ridiculous level of over-payment than already exists

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9 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Or more realistically:

1)  SF laughs in your face

2)  No high or middle tier FA ever talks to your team again, short of an even more ridiculous level of over-payment than already exists

Hey man...we have to find a center at all costs.

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Here is a list from pro-football-reference.  These are players that were drafted as a center and are currently in the league (I may be missing a few).  There are other players that currently play center but were perhaps drafted as another position.  This also does not include UDFA.  The thing that stands out to me is Jason Kelce is the only non-top 2 round center with All-pro or pro bowl.  But a long time starter can be had at any round.  

Year round pick Name Pos All Pro PB Start CarAV G GS
2010 1 18 Maurkice Pouncey C 2 7 7 69 108 108
2016 1 18 Ryan Kelly C 0 0 2 16 35 35
2015 1 19 Cameron Erving C 0 0 2 16 56 34
2009 1 21 Alex Mack C 0 6 9 72 149 149
2013 1 31 Travis Frederick C 1 4 5 47 80 80
2011 2 48 Stefen Wisniewski C 0 0 6 39 123 101
2009 2 49 Max Unger C 1 3 8 68 130 130
2011 2 55 Rodney Hudson C 0 2 6 41 112 96
2017 2 58 Ethan Pocic C 0 0 0 7 26 15
2007 2 59 Ryan Kalil C 2 5 9 74 148 145
2015 2 61 Ali Marpet C 0 0 4 25 56 56
2017 3 70 Pat Elflein C 0 0 2 14 28 27
2014 3 70 Marcus Martin C 0 0 2 10 26 24
2015 3 71 Hroniss Grasu C 0 0 1 7 17 13
2014 3 76 Travis Swanson C 0 0 4 24 65 53
2016 3 95 Graham Glasgow C 0 0 2 21 47 43
2012 4 99 Ben Jones C 0 0 6 35 112 91
2013 4 107 Brian Schwenke C 0 0 2 14 60 30
2014 4 111 Russell Bodine C 0 0 5 28 74 74
2016 4 128 Evan Boehm C 0 0 1 8 42 13
2015 4 131 Shaq Mason C 0 0 4 29 60 55
2015 4 133 Max Garcia C 0 0 2 16 56 41
2014 5 161 Corey Linsley C 0 0 5 32 70 70
2013 6 170 Eric Kush C 0 0 0 7 33 12
2011 6 172 Brandon Fusco C 0 0 5 37 90 87
2008 6 187 John Sullivan C 0 0 8 56 153 125
2011 6 191 Jason Kelce C 2 2 7 58 110 110
2017 6 199 Chase Roullier C 0 0 1 10 29 23
2010 6 205 Ted Larsen C 0 0 6 35 125 86
2014 6 205 Luke Bowanko C 0 0 1 8 46 18
2016 6 215 Joey Hunt C 0 0 0 3 20 3
2015 7 222 Austin Reiter C 0 0 0 4 28 5
2009 7 226 A.Q. Shipley C 0 0 3 24 89 54
2017 7 243 Kyle Fuller C 0 0 0 1 11 2
2016 7 248 Austin Blythe C 0 0 1 13 40 18
2013 7 251 T.J. Johnson C 0 0 0 4 45 5
                       
                        0.80
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8 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Here is a list from pro-football-reference.  These are players that were drafted as a center and are currently in the league (I may be missing a few).  There are other players that currently play center but were perhaps drafted as another position.  This also does not include UDFA.  The thing that stands out to me is Jason Kelce is the only non-top 2 round center with All-pro or pro bowl.  But a long time starter can be had at any round.  

Year round pick Name Pos All Pro PB Start CarAV G GS
2010 1 18 Maurkice Pouncey C 2 7 7 69 108 108
2016 1 18 Ryan Kelly C 0 0 2 16 35 35
2015 1 19 Cameron Erving C 0 0 2 16 56 34
2009 1 21 Alex Mack C 0 6 9 72 149 149
2013 1 31 Travis Frederick C 1 4 5 47 80 80
2011 2 48 Stefen Wisniewski C 0 0 6 39 123 101
2009 2 49 Max Unger C 1 3 8 68 130 130
2011 2 55 Rodney Hudson C 0 2 6 41 112 96
2017 2 58 Ethan Pocic C 0 0 0 7 26 15
2007 2 59 Ryan Kalil C 2 5 9 74 148 145
2015 2 61 Ali Marpet C 0 0 4 25 56 56
2017 3 70 Pat Elflein C 0 0 2 14 28 27
2014 3 70 Marcus Martin C 0 0 2 10 26 24
2015 3 71 Hroniss Grasu C 0 0 1 7 17 13
2014 3 76 Travis Swanson C 0 0 4 24 65 53
2016 3 95 Graham Glasgow C 0 0 2 21 47 43
2012 4 99 Ben Jones C 0 0 6 35 112 91
2013 4 107 Brian Schwenke C 0 0 2 14 60 30
2014 4 111 Russell Bodine C 0 0 5 28 74 74
2016 4 128 Evan Boehm C 0 0 1 8 42 13
2015 4 131 Shaq Mason C 0 0 4 29 60 55
2015 4 133 Max Garcia C 0 0 2 16 56 41
2014 5 161 Corey Linsley C 0 0 5 32 70 70
2013 6 170 Eric Kush C 0 0 0 7 33 12
2011 6 172 Brandon Fusco C 0 0 5 37 90 87
2008 6 187 John Sullivan C 0 0 8 56 153 125
2011 6 191 Jason Kelce C 2 2 7 58 110 110
2017 6 199 Chase Roullier C 0 0 1 10 29 23
2010 6 205 Ted Larsen C 0 0 6 35 125 86
2014 6 205 Luke Bowanko C 0 0 1 8 46 18
2016 6 215 Joey Hunt C 0 0 0 3 20 3
2015 7 222 Austin Reiter C 0 0 0 4 28 5
2009 7 226 A.Q. Shipley C 0 0 3 24 89 54
2017 7 243 Kyle Fuller C 0 0 0 1 11 2
2016 7 248 Austin Blythe C 0 0 1 13 40 18
2013 7 251 T.J. Johnson C 0 0 0 4 45 5
                       
                        0.80

how many of these guys started as rookies? And were good?

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

keep in mind Mac hasn't drafted a lineman high since he's been here (and the best one he's drafted was Shell in rd 5).

in 2016  Gase reportedly got into a screaming match with Dolphins owner Ross about paying money for guards (Gase was against it). 

who is going to pound the table for the line? 

prediction: line is not going to be a high draft priority, they will get guys but none as impactful as KO. prepare your body for this outcome 

Have a link to that Bit?  I know they got in a fight about Ross wanting to tank the 2019 season that led to their parting ways, but I don't remember them fighting over guards

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6 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Have a link to that Bit?  I know they got in a fight about Ross wanting to tank the 2019 season that led to their parting ways, but I don't remember them fighting over guards

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article223850050.html

 

>

Gase reported to work every day with the goal of making the Miami Dolphins a winner. But because he had so much power and no one to tell him “no,” he made mistakes.

He reached back into his history and added former players such as tight end Julius Thomas. He needed leadership in the worst way so he signed old players, many of which ended up on injured reserve.

He considered his time as the offensive coordinator in Denver, a time in which Peyton Manning broke the season touchdown pass record, and decided guards were really a luxury the Dolphins didn’t need. Because Manning could get rid of the football so fast, guards basically had nothing to do on many plays anyway and Gase thought things could work the same in Miami.

That’s an interesting one, by the way.

After the 2016 season when the Dolphins needed a serious upgrade to their defense, Gase decided he could make the offense operate on the cheap while the defense added players. So the coach practically ignored the need for guards.

And Ross challenged him about that.

And Gase yelled at the owner about knowing more about football than he did. Multiple sources say a high-ranking club official had to intervene and tell Gase he could not speak to the owner — his boss — that way.

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

We have a strong history of having the “Best Center in the League.”  Where has it gotten us?  Let’s find an adequate center and invest resources elsewhere.  Shame is the Jets can never find that middle ground.

My dream is to get an adequate center.  That would be a step up.

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3 hours ago, DMan77 said:

Based on Mac's history so far it sure seems like he subscribes to the theory of "You can get an OL later"... 

But who knows? Things change and he might be more willing now to address that line... He already pulled the trigger on that trade. 

Bill Parcels had  the same philosophy.  I loved the guy but disagreed.

IMO from 2008 - 2010...Jets had the best OL in the league.  Top 3 for sure.  With a raw Sanchez at QB, every opponent knew Jets were going to run the ball down their throats 50%+.  Yet the Jets still went to back to back ACCG's. 

Two of the table setters for that OL were D'Bric Ferguson and Mangold. Both of them drafted in the 1st round.

Don't get me wrong...the defense  was top 3 too.

I'm a firm believer that success for winning a football game starts at both sides of the LOS.  If your winning those battles in the trenches...it vastly increases your chances of winning.  You succeed at the LOS and have no TO's...a game managing QB can win you a lot of games.

   

 

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15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article223850050.html

 

>

And Gase yelled at the owner about knowing more about football than he did. Multiple sources say a high-ranking club official had to intervene and tell Gase he could not speak to the owner — his boss — that way.

Wow, Gase sounds like a nut. You'd never think that by looking at him (at least not at his eyes)

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50 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

Bill Parcels had  the same philosophy.  I loved the guy but disagreed.

IMO from 2008 - 2010...Jets had the best OL in the league.  Top 3 for sure.  With a raw Sanchez at QB, every opponent knew Jets were going to run the ball down their throats 50%+.  Yet the Jets still went to back to back ACCG's. 

Two of the table setters for that OL were D'Bric Ferguson and Mangold. Both of them drafted in the 1st round.

Don't get me wrong...the defense  was top 3 too.

I'm a firm believer that success for winning a football game starts at both sides of the LOS.  If your winning those battles in the trenches...it vastly increases your chances of winning.  You succeed at the LOS and have no TO's...a game managing QB can win you a lot of games.

   

 

I pulled up the 2009 Jets roster.  

Their OL was basically D'Brick (Rd 1, rookie contract), Faneca (Rd 1-FA $+), Mangold (Rd 1-rookie contract), Moore (UDFA, $-), Woody (Rd 1, FA $+).  

So basically they were paying 2 FAs, found a prospect and drafted 2 high.  

If the Jets actually drafted the BOLA in the third round in this draft, they would be much better off.  

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Another avenue for finding a center: the AAF.

Jordan McCray (Justin McCray's twin brother) has been doing a nice job in the AAF.

An alternative could be JC Hassenauer though he is injured right now which is not a good sign.

There are "NFL out" clauses in their contract which allow them to leave the AAF for the NFL.  They become available April 28th, the day after the AAF championship game.  Also the day after the draft which allows teams to assess their roster post-draft and after signing undrafted free agents.

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5 hours ago, frankiepapa said:

Didn't the Jets extend Harrison?  I would love an upgrade but he might be our guy for at least this year....

If Harrison is going to be the guy, I sure hope they make him earn it and don't just hand the spot to him.  Bring in another vet (Wisneiwski/Sullivan) and draft a guy and let all 3 compete.  I don't think Harrison has done enough to be handed the job, but if he earns it; ok.

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36 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

They did resign Harrison but they do need to sign another center for depth

I think Harrison will be the day 1 starter, we’ll sign a vet just in case, and we’ll draft a Center.

The vet will hopefully get cut or be used as Guard depth by the end of camp if Harrison and Rookie look good enough.

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