Jump to content
32EBoozer

MORSE DEAL 4/$44.5mil w/$20.5m guaranteed

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

That contract made him the highest paid C in football. But then again we made Mosley the highest paid interior backer.

For what we are paying Mosley, he should be playing both ways.  Little light for a Center though unfortunately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, jetsons said:

We need to Draft our next "Mangold" This draft.

Can the people saying that we will draft a center, please explain how.

We aren't  taking one at 3 and there are only 3 top end centers the draft, all of which will be drafted before we pick in the 3rd round.

Without trading down, or packing our 3rds to get into the second, its going to be extremely difficult to get a center in this draft.

On top of that, if Mac wasn't planning on paying Morse or Paradis, why exactly did we let spencer long go?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The nice thing about an OL is that it can be made over in a short amount of time. You have 2 good players in Shell and KO and a serviceable LT in Beachum. If Mack can nail a rookie plug & play STUD Center we move into top 15 OL. I’m also hoping some vet shakes loose in cutdowns that we can grab or a practice squad player a team is hoping to hide because they see great potential but have limited roster flexibility 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Can the people saying that we will draft a center, please explain how.

We aren't  taking one at 3 and there are only 3 top end centers the draft, all of which will be drafted before we pick in the 3rd round.

Without trading down, or packing our 3rds to get into the second, its going to be extremely difficult to get a center in this draft.

On top of that, if Mac wasn't planning on paying Morse or Paradis, why exactly did we let spencer long go?

Mangold was drafted #29 in the 1st rd.... making a trade to get 1 isn't out of the question.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not going to second guess Mac at this point, but both he and Idzik have overestimated what they had, particularly on the OL.  This even goes back to Adrian Clarke, Wayne Hunter and Pete Kendall.  It would appear to me to be possible that the Jets enter the season with a Center that drags the team down.  If Beachum goes down there are other problems. 

With all the cap room they still have, going after Morse would appear to have been the better idea.  This would have reduced any pressure to trade down and use the 3rd round picks for other needs.  

Alot more will happen before we know where this team stands.   I do sense a likely tradedown though.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

The reason is very simple. Just look at mac’s Track record here. Doesn’t draft Olineman before 6 round. Five straight years, has to be a record. He has never thrown big $$ for a top OL, he just does not value them. He ALWAYS looks for the dirt cheap lineman. So of course those 2 were not going to be considered..

He did bring in Carpenter who was a 1st rd pick by the Seahawks..\\:D/

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The Beachum deal is kind of a strange one to use to wave that flag.  Beachum was coming off a torn ACL and was a top FA LT during the 15-16 offseason.  Ferguson had refused a pay cut and Mac supposedly really liked Beachum.  They had him in and were outbid by the Jags.  The Jags deal was $5M guaranteed, followed by 4/$40M option years.

The Jets ended up  trading a 5th for Clady and a 7th.  Clady was a likely cap casualty of the Broncos since he as making $10M per and they had just won the super bowl with Ryan Harris at LT because Clady was out with a torn ACL.  The had to trade their '17 4th to move back into the 5th (pick after the one traded to Denver) for Shell.  They only pulled the trigger on Beachum after Clady refused to take a pay cut. 

These examples do not support a staff prioritizing offensive line talent over expenditure. 

More over, with all the willingness to spend annually on just a handful of players out of the gate, regardless of how much most actually pocketed after getting cut early (Revis $16M, Cromartie $8M, Harris $7.5M, Skrine $6M, Gilchrist $5M), and re-upping others who should have been traded or just let go (Mo $17M, Fitz $12M), the picture painted is trying to strike oil with lower-priced starters, especially on the OL:

  • Carpenter @ $5M 
  • Ferguson2016 only if he agreed to a pay cut @ $5M
  • Clady @ $6M (dumped after 1 year because he wouldn't agree to a 2017 pay cut, probably to around at that same money)
  • Beachum @ $8M
  • W.Johnson @ $3M
  • keeping Giacomini for 2 years @ $5M
  • Ijalana @ $5M
  • Winters @ $8M (considering the position, the biggest OL signing over his first 4 years)
  • Long @ $7M
  • Harrison @ $3M, unless we sign a center (he's the only FA OLman to even get an offer from the cash/cap-rich Jets)
  • plus both OL picks being in round 5 (yes he gave up the following year's 4th, but probably thought he'd recoup that a year later in trade-downs; strictly speaking, he spent a 5th round pick since every pick made could be rationalized as losing a pick a round higher the following year). 
Every time an 8-figure (or high pick) OLman was available, even when showing interest or making actual offers he ultimately crawled back into his shell when an insignificant extra was required, and chose to use the extra cap or picks elsewhere (typically wasted elsewhere I might add), even with Beachum/Tunsil in 2016 as you mentioned: 
  • Iupati @ $8M in 2015 
  • Ferguson @ 10M for 2016 (demanded a 50% pay cut ultimatum in April)
  • Okung @ $10.6M (though only $8M gtd/earned in 2016)
  • Beachum @ $9M (though only $4.9M gtd/made in 2016, as you mention)
  • Osemele @ $11.5M in 2016
  • Tunsil (move up to #10 instead of trading away picks that became Lee/Hackenberg)
  • Norwell @ $13M 
  • Paradis @ $9M 
  • Morse @ $11M
Debate the individual wisdom of any; these were all players he wanted, showed interest in, and made actual offers to get most of them at ~90-100% of the asking price, or perhaps made/matched the actual top offer but the player still decided to sign elsewhere. In other words, if a player was a huge mistake @ $13M he'd still have been a huge mistake @ $12M.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The Beachum deal is kind of a strange one to use to wave that flag.  Beachum was coming off a torn ACL and was a top FA LT during the 15-16 offseason.  Ferguson had refused a pay cut and Mac supposedly really liked Beachum.  They had him in and were outbid by the Jags.  The Jags deal was $5M guaranteed, followed by 4/$40M option years.

The Jets ended up  trading a 5th for Clady and a 7th.  Clady was a likely cap casualty of the Broncos since he as making $10M per and they had just won the super bowl with Ryan Harris at LT because Clady was out with a torn ACL.  Then they had to trade their '17 4th to move back into the 5th (pick after the one traded to Denver) for Shell.  They only pulled the trigger on Beachum the following year after Clady refused to take a pay cut. 

These examples do not support a staff prioritizing offensive line talent over expenditure. 

That wasn't my point.  The poster said that Maccagnan never has drafted a lineman before the 6th round, does not value the position and only looks for cheap alternatives.  My response was based on those three points, not the cost effectiveness or value of those judgements. 

For the record, I did like the acquisition of Clady at the time.  I was sorely disappointed in his performance from day 1 and was happy when they let him go.  Beachum, I was never convinced was a top Tackle, and am still of that opinion.  If there were better options, I would be all for replacing him. I have suggested as such.  I don't feel that the "stats" supporting him as a better than average performer pass the "eye test".  I thought that last year he was woeful, as was the rest of the line.  Unfortunately there don't  seem to be better options out there  at this point, so I'm willing to be patient and wait another year.

  This doesn't mean I am blind to the offensive line deficiencies or support them.  Same with Winters, the horrible backups,starting with Ijalana and Qvale, and Shell to a lesser extent.  Osmele was an excellent start.  There is a lot of work to be done.  Money is not the issue.  Talent is.  Until that talent is drafted and developed, or acquired, blindly throwing money at bodies will not solve the problem. Free agency this year did not prove to be the solution.  It will surely be addressed to some extent in the upcoming draft.  If it is not, the criticism will be deserved.  Until that time, it makes sense to wait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thats allpro annual dough...  i dunno

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

That wasn't my point.  The poster said that Maccagnan never has drafted a lineman before the 6th round, does not value the position and only looks for cheap alternatives.  My response was based on those three points, not the cost effectiveness or value of those judgements. 

For the record, I did like the acquisition of Clady at the time.  I was sorely disappointed in his performance from day 1 and was happy when they let him go.  Beachum, I was never convinced was a top Tackle, and am still of that opinion.  If there were better options, I would be all for replacing him. I have suggested as such.  I don't feel that the "stats" supporting him as a better than average performer pass the "eye test".  I thought that last year he was woeful, as was the rest of the line.  Unfortunately there don't  seem to be better options out there  at this point, so I'm willing to be patient and wait another year.

  This doesn't mean I am blind to the offensive line deficiencies or support them.  Same with Winters, the horrible backups,starting with Ijalana and Qvale, and Shell to a lesser extent.  Osmele was an excellent start.  There is a lot of work to be done.  Money is not the issue.  Talent is.  Until that talent is drafted and developed, or acquired, blindly throwing money at bodies will not solve the problem. Free agency this year did not prove to be the solution.  It will surely be addressed to some extent in the upcoming draft.  If it is not, the criticism will be deserved.  Until that time, it makes sense to wait.

Your point is that he will spend money.  My point is that on several occasions he let minor differences in price change his choice, particularly at LT.  2016, he wanted Brick back, but lowballed him and demanded he take a pay cut.  He wanted Beachum but wouldn't meet his price, so he traded for Clady.  2017, he wanted Clady back, but demanded he take a pay cut.  When he retired he came to terms with Beachum. They probably would have wanted Mangold back in 2017, but wanted to save the money.  Bad as Mangold was getting, Wesley Johnson helped torpedo that season. Hell, they were supposedly in on Osamele when he was a free agent, but were outbid.  Those are money moves, not player moves. I get holding to your price, but when you have a revolving door at LT and a ton of cash, it seems shortsighted.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

More over, with all the willingness to spend annually on just a handful of players out of the gate, regardless of how much most actually pocketed after getting cut early (Revis $16M, Cromartie $8M, Harris $7.5M, Skrine $6M, Gilchrist $5M), and re-upping others who should have been traded or just let go (Mo $17M, Fitz $12M), the picture painted is trying to strike oil with lower-priced starters, especially on the OL:

  • Carpenter @ $5M 
  • Ferguson2016 only if he agreed to a pay cut @ $5M
  • Clady @ $6M (dumped after 1 year because he wouldn't agree to a 2017 pay cut, probably to around at that same money)
  • Beachum @ $8M
  • W.Johnson @ $3M
  • keeping Giacomini for 2 years @ $5M
  • Ijalana @ $5M
  • Winters @ $8M (considering the position, the biggest OL signing over his first 4 years)
  • Long @ $7M
  • Harrison @ $3M, unless we sign a center (he's the only FA OLman to even get an offer from the cash/cap-rich Jets)
  • plus both OL picks being in round 5 (yes he gave up the following year's 4th, but probably thought he'd recoup that a year later in trade-downs; strictly speaking, he spent a 5th round pick since every pick made could be rationalized as losing a pick a round higher the following year). 
Every time an 8-figure (or high pick) OLman was available, even when showing interest or making actual offers he ultimately crawled back into his shell when an insignificant extra was required, and chose to use the extra cap or picks elsewhere (typically wasted elsewhere I might add), even with Beachum/Tunsil in 2016 as you mentioned: 
  • Iupati @ $8M in 2015 
  • Ferguson @ 10M for 2016 (demanded a 50% pay cut ultimatum in April)
  • Okung @ $10.6M (though only $8M gtd/earned in 2016)
  • Beachum @ $9M (though only $4.9M gtd/made in 2016, as you mention)
  • Osemele @ $11.5M in 2016
  • Tunsil (move up to #10 instead of trading away picks that became Lee/Hackenberg)
  • Norwell @ $13M 
  • Paradis @ $9M 
  • Morse @ $11M
Debate the individual wisdom of any; these were all players he wanted, showed interest in, and made actual offers to get most of them at ~90-100% of the asking price, or perhaps made/matched the actual top offer but the player still decided to sign elsewhere. In other words, if a player was a huge mistake @ $13M he'd still have been a huge mistake @ $12M.
 

I would also add trading a pick to Minnesota with Pat Elfien on the board who was 1. A value at the point in the draft as he was projected to be a 2nd/3rd round player and it was the 3rd round.  2. Was at a position of glaring need given that we had wesley johnson as the center.  3.  Was from a school we had drafted from before in a big conference  4.  Had zero red flags for character.

I normally dont like the hindsight when it comes to draft picks, however in this particular case I will never understand making that move and then taking a WR who didnt have separation ability?????????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Savage69 said:

He did bring in Carpenter who was a 1st rd pick by the Seahawks..\\:D/

And if carpenter was still playing like a former first round pick, mac would not have shelled out that kind of $$ for a OL, And signed him 🙃 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been on the "we need a center" bandwagon for two years.  I still wouldn't have signed Paradis (injuries) or Morse ($$).  At this point Mac has a few options;

  • Sign a vet stop-gap guy
  • Trade back in round 1 and get a top center in the draft
  • He has a trade up his sleeve to trade for one.  I would be calling the Browns to see if Austin Corbett a G/C would was the first pick in the second round last year, is available.

If none of those are true then Mac will deserve criticism for ignoring the OL, in particular, at center.  I think he realizes that he cannot go into the season with Harrison and Toth as the two centers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

The Jets spending last season was the 11th highest in the NFL. Your right we don’t draft them high. The best don’t usually make it to free agency. Although Macc does over spend on average linemen. Now the Jets have a real QB this will change.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/2018/offensive-line/

14959092-D4C0-4774-8C28-3302DF222F96.png

Agree. Mac has no choice but to finally invest in the OLine. Otherwise he will be shipped out very soon. Bell had. Horses in Pitt, and I’m sure he noticed jets OL couldn’t hold a candle to them, why he waited and waited to sign here. Also his “ 60 mil ain’t enough to come run with the jets” comment. 

Darnold is MUCH more important then bell,  or any other player on the team. And will be for hopefully a decade and a half. You are right he needs to be protected well. Johnsons are not going to allow Mac to stay if he insists on BPA in draft, which is why we almost always pick D. Unless it’s a pass rusher, bpa will almost always be D early rounds. Also in FA. Mac has had no problem shelling out top dollar for Defensive players, 2 years in a row we signed a player who is highest paid at his position. No way would Mac pay 16 mil for a offensive lineman. But maybe Gase is key, and will bully Mac into valuing the OLine, much more then he has in the past.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Debate the individual wisdom of any; these were all players he wanted, showed interest in, and made actual offers to get most of them at ~90-100% of the asking price, or perhaps made/matched the actual top offer but the player still decided to sign elsewhere. In other words, if a player was a huge mistake @ $13M he'd still have been a huge mistake @ $12M.

 

I cut down your novel because I really vibe with this idea. Macc draws lines without rhyme or reason. If this offseason is devoted to pushing hard into a 3/4 year window, then offering $12 million for an essential piece is an obvious move. But Macc drew a line in the sand for the center position but shattered all records for an MLB? 

I am not advocating that we overpay every position but his ideas of value are confusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm holding my breath waiting for a center here... I've passed out at least 15 times today alone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DMan77 said:

I'm holding my breath waiting for a center here... I've passed out at least 15 times today alone. 

He said DON'T hold your breath waiting for a center!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

The Jets spending last season was the 11th highest in the NFL. Your right we don’t draft them high. The best don’t usually make it to free agency. Although Macc does over spend on average linemen. Now the Jets have a real QB this will change.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/2018/offensive-line/

14959092-D4C0-4774-8C28-3302DF222F96.png

And of course Pats are bottom 3rd in OL expenditure. Brady helps that team on soooo many levels.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am not going to second guess Mac at this point, but both he and Idzik have overestimated what they had, particularly on the OL.  This even goes back to Adrian Clarke, Wayne Hunter and Pete Kendall.  It would appear to me to be possible that the Jets enter the season with a Center that drags the team down.  If Beachum goes down there are other problems. 
With all the cap room they still have, going after Morse would appear to have been the better idea.  This would have reduced any pressure to trade down and use the 3rd round picks for other needs.  
Alot more will happen before we know where this team stands.   I do sense a likely tradedown though.

Good post. I agree with everything you said. Another area we’ve seen our players over valued is at CB. The idzik CB debacle was unbelievable.
the one area I’m disappointed with this FA period so far is the OL. That was the area most of us agreed was the real the priority. We were able to grab an amazingly talented and aggressive OG to replace carpenter which was one of the main areas we needed to address. Great!
But we did not address C, other than retaining Harrison. That was made fun of with a wonderfully snarky thread here, but that turned out to be incredibly important. We also could have sought to upgrade the LT but that wasn’t all that possible. Having solid depth is paramount as well.

There is lots of time left and plenty has yet to unfold. I am very happy with the moves we did make so I have faith. I agree getting morse or paradis would have given us more flexibility in the draft, but oh well. We can’t get it all done with plan A. I’m hoping for a trade back so we have a better shot at Getting more done.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

That contract made him the highest paid C in football. But then again we made Mosley the highest paid interior backer.

That is just the thing josh Allen. Mac has overspent for defense every yr he has been here. When it comes to offense, especially offensive line, he only wants the bargain players

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...