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I am very happy so far, rebuild ahead of schedule IMHO


SouthernJet

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There is no rebuild without a franchise QB. It began last year. What happened prior was holding a team together with paperclips.


Sure there is. Before the Rams got Goff they had drafted the likes of Donald, Gurley, and other key pieces.

What’s Macc’s excuse for three terrible drafts prior to landing Darnold.
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8 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Does anyone have a guess one how much of these signing has to do with new coaches????

Almost everything. 

Gase & Williams are on their Honeymoon first season. Mac aims to please them, and give them pieces they want.  That's why Barr reneging on a deal hurt.  The 2nd and 3rd options on Williams wish list probably got snatched up. 

A good GM needs to work with a HC-CS that share a similar philosophy.  So they can more effectively collaborate in getting the right players in FA and the draft.  Bowles and his staff...who were being out  coached in most games...were not the answer.

Lets see how the rest of FA-draft play out. But in the end...the  truth will be revealed...when the games are actually played.  W-L results don't usually lie.

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1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

I'm not defending Mac. We might have been in a rebuild a year earlier if he hadn't passed on Mahomes and hadn't drafted the dreadful Hack. Petty was never seen as a franchise QB ad you know it. He was at best going to be Kellen Clemens... but wasn't. The other veteran journeymen were placeholders to keep the team competitive amidst the chaos. None of them were ever seen as franchise QB's either. You know that too. If you're asking when we should have been in rebuild, vs. where we are today, I'd say Mac failed. He may recover now that Darnold is in the fold, but that doesn't excuse the many blunders that preceded that very fortunate pick.

The point isnt about whether you or I thought they were franchise QB's, the point is Mac did.  You dont trade up for Petty if you think he sucks, you dont take Hack in the 2nd without hopes of being a franchise QB.  You dont let Fitz take you for an entire offseason ride if you didnt think he was going to do it again.  And while he was trying to make it work at QB, he failed every where else.  

I'm sorry, the nothing matter before Darnold is bogus.  Would be nice to have some WR's, RB's, OL, etc in place last year coming into this year, no?  Probably be in a little better position, no? 

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12 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

No one expected any of those guys to be the long term answer and if anyone did they were nuts. Fitz looked like he might be finally starting to "get it" but he will always be an impossible player to figure out smart guy who seems to be going great then he just goes totally wheels off ...hard to figure him out.  Hack was a half assed attempt at possibly hoping Penn State was such a mess it affected him negatively since he had the Physical attributes and measurables to have at least a shot at being the guy. He was not, but it was an attempt a gamble and it failed.

The first 2 years Macc was here he was obviously told to try and win NOW due to all the older players he signed and we still had some players in place  it was obvious he sat down with the owner and came to the conclusion we might have one more shot. I watched the Cowboys do this in the mid to late  90's and it was the same ordeal the glory days were over.

In year one he brought in players that made a big Impact at getting us to 10-6 Marshall had a huge year and Fitz Blindsided just about everyone . In year 2 he added some more guys to fill some glaring holes and the entire thing blew up, coach, locker room, and all.

At that time it was obvious we needed to blow the entire thing up.... only mistake was not dumping Bowles (JMO) once a coach loses a locker room whether its his fault or not it becomes a cancer that's hard to fix. At this stage Macc started working the cap to get us in a favorable position this year and last year he drafted our franchise QB with a good trade to number 3 I think without Bowels having a huge say in Personnel decisions we will see a different outcome in this years draft and if we do we can revisit the Macc scenario. He must have a better draft then he has in the past there's no doubt about that.

His work thus far in FA has been fantastic and there is still money we can use when cap casualties become available not to mention we will get a very good player with pick number 3 in the draft or hopefully trade out of the pick  and get more picks to continue to build on. I also think Macc needs to take a good hard look at his scouting dept they are after all who you rely on the most as a GM . Macc has made some nice additions on the Pro level his drafts once again need to Improve in a big way but drafts are always a crap shoot. You always see GM's have great years then you see them just sh*t the bed IMO Macc is due and that would be great after this years FA success.

 

Mac did, that's the point.  This isnt about what you and I think.  And the rest is just a bunch of excuses and pointing the finger at Bowles.

I'm pleased with this offseason but teams dont win championships in the offseason. 

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Mac is the architect of the plan that got us our QB. He gets 10 get out of jail free cards and a reset for any past mistakes. There can be no plan without this piece and we now have one. And Bell is the perfect player for him. Who cares if Mac got lucky. What do you call it when your effing QB is a 6th round pick?


Actually Heimerdinger was the architect of the trade, which has been well-documented. And we’d have Josh Allen at QB if it weren’t for the Giants f-ing up.

Macc does not get a free pass for any of his mistakes based on one lucky happening that wasn’t even his design. He also does not get a pass for building a horrible roster prior to Darnold’s arrival.
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No one expected any of those guys to be the long term answer and if anyone did they were nuts. Fitz looked like he might be finally starting to "get it" but he will always be an impossible player to figure out smart guy who seems to be going great then he just goes totally wheels off ...hard to figure him out.  Hack was a half assed attempt at possibly hoping Penn State was such a mess it affected him negatively since he had the Physical attributes and measurables to have at least a shot at being the guy. He was not, but it was an attempt a gamble and it failed.
The first 2 years Macc was here he was obviously told to try and win NOW due to all the older players he signed and we still had some players in place  it was obvious he sat down with the owner and came to the conclusion we might have one more shot. I watched the Cowboys do this in the mid to late  90's and it was the same ordeal the glory days were over.
In year one he brought in players that made a big Impact at getting us to 10-6 Marshall had a huge year and Fitz Blindsided just about everyone . In year 2 he added some more guys to fill some glaring holes and the entire thing blew up, coach, locker room, and all.
At that time it was obvious we needed to blow the entire thing up.... only mistake was not dumping Bowles (JMO) once a coach loses a locker room whether its his fault or not it becomes a cancer that's hard to fix. At this stage Macc started working the cap to get us in a favorable position this year and last year he drafted our franchise QB with a good trade to number 3 I think without Bowels having a huge say in Personnel decisions we will see a different outcome in this years draft and if we do we can revisit the Macc scenario. He must have a better draft then he has in the past there's no doubt about that.
His work thus far in FA has been fantastic and there is still money we can use when cap casualties become available not to mention we will get a very good player with pick number 3 in the draft or hopefully trade out of the pick  and get more picks to continue to build on. I also think Macc needs to take a good hard look at his scouting dept they are after all who you rely on the most as a GM . Macc has made some nice additions on the Pro level his drafts once again need to Improve in a big way but drafts are always a crap shoot. You always see GM's have great years then you see them just sh*t the bed IMO Macc is due and that would be great after this years FA success.
 


Wait, what? Macc drafted Hack in the 2nd round, and passed on the QBs the next year to take a safety, but didn’t really believe in Hack?

Come on.
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18 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'd rather have had another quality O-lineman the the LB we got.

I would have preferred we keep our kicker.

Other than that, it's been ok.  Better on paper than it could have been.

Bell + a maybe good O-lineman + a slot guy is ok.  Still need a #1 WR and one-two more O-linemen.

 

BE76DAC5-7FBC-4713-940D-8058FEDA24D4.jpeg

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19 minutes ago, JiF said:

The point isnt about whether you or I thought they were franchise QB's, the point is Mac did.  You dont trade up for Petty if you think he sucks, you dont take Hack in the 2nd without hopes of being a franchise QB.  You dont let Fitz take you for an entire offseason ride if you didnt think he was going to do it again.  And while he was trying to make it work at QB, he failed every where else.  

I'm sorry, the nothing matter before Darnold is bogus.  Would be nice to have some WR's, RB's, OL, etc in place last year coming into this year, no?  Probably be in a little better position, no? 

I think we are arguing the semantics of the term "rebuild," not the reality of what happened, although I will still disagree that Fitz or McCown were ever viewed by Mac as potential franchise QB's. That's pretty ridiculous. He got some good mileage out of them, but they were both patented aging journeymen QB's. Mac knew that very well.

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No. We need to make sure we get pieces to replace the overpriced rentals we got this year because Macc’s drafts have sucked ass. 


Yep. The ultimate catch 22. Because the only surefire way to establish a pipeline of young, cheap talent is via the draft.
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14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Actually Heimerdinger was the architect of the trade, which has been well-documented. And we’d have Josh Allen at QB if it weren’t for the Giants f-ing up.

Macc does not get a free pass for any of his mistakes based on one lucky happening that wasn’t even his design. He also does not get a pass for building a horrible roster prior to Darnold’s arrival.

 

Mac doesnt deserve a free pass by any means.  Not only would we have rosen/allen if the Giants weren't so inept, but his original plan was Cousins and we saw how that played out in Minnesota.

The thing is, so much changes from year to year, that 2 good picks can erase 2 years of misses.  Look at atlanta - everyone said how in sync Quinn and Dimitroff were in their picks, the team excelled, and everything was amazing.  Do Quinn and Dimitroff suck now because Beasley became one dimensional, they had injuries, and some other breaks didnt go their way?

Gase is a good coach.  Will he win here is yet to be determined, but I think we need to realize how utterly inept Bowles was.  The guy didnt understand simple math/risk reward on the field and refused to play younger players (It certainly would be nice given our CB situation  if Derrick Jones had played more).  We now have a coach who can actually design plays to get players open.  We have playmakers on offense and a DC who won't allow Blake Bortles to complete 12 slant passes in a row without changing anything.

We should be optimistic 

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Yep. The ultimate catch 22. Because the only surefire way to establish a pipeline of young, cheap talent is via the draft.

 

Free agency is like doing your grocery shopping at 7-11. You pay too much for too little, but yes it’s a quick fix. The draft is like shopping at Costco, you buy what you need for the future. 

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Free agency is like doing your grocery shopping at 7-11. You pay too much for too little, but yes it’s a quick fix. The draft is like shopping at Costco, you buy what you need for the future. 

 

While shopping at Costco, You fill 4 carts for one night’s dinner.

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49 minutes ago, JiF said:

The point isnt about whether you or I thought they were franchise QB's, the point is Mac did.  You dont trade up for Petty if you think he sucks, you dont take Hack in the 2nd without hopes of being a franchise QB.  You dont let Fitz take you for an entire offseason ride if you didnt think he was going to do it again.  And while he was trying to make it work at QB, he failed every where else.  

I'm sorry, the nothing matter before Darnold is bogus.  Would be nice to have some WR's, RB's, OL, etc in place last year coming into this year, no?  Probably be in a little better position, no? 

I agree but you don't take Clemens in the 2nd either.. Everyone thinks Mangini was the brains drafting in his time with the Jets. He gets credit for Revis, Mangold,Brick and Harris but he also got rid of Abe,Mawae and ran Pete Kendall out of town over a million bucks.. And then we had the Ghost and the Boar Hunter among many other failures.. I'd add Brad Smith as a plus but Mike Westoff said that was on him..

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

Mac did, that's the point.  This isnt about what you and I think.  And the rest is just a bunch of excuses and pointing the finger at Bowles.

I'm pleased with this offseason but teams dont win championships in the offseason. 

I agree JIF, they don't win in the offseason and before anyone crowns Macc, this team has to WIN first and foremost. When this team wins then we can talk about giving credit.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Wait, what? Macc drafted Hack in the 2nd round, and passed on the QBs the next year to take a safety, but didn’t really believe in Hack?

Come on.

 

80 when I was refering to the QB's I was talking about us the fans ... It was obvious Macc was gambling Hacks talents would pull him through, they didn't. Also when it comes to those other QB's no one was picking them to go early in that draft or teams like Houston and KC would have traded up. No one could have predicted what Mahomes and Watson are doing.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Wait, what? Macc drafted Hack in the 2nd round, and passed on the QBs the next year to take a safety, but didn’t really believe in Hack?

Come on.

 

these Mac fan boys are pretty pathetic aren’t they ? I know we haven’t won in a decade, but sad to see so many fans just accept failure. Bowles was a failure, his fanboys finally left or came around. Mac is also a failure, but I do believe there is some hope for him. If he just surrounds himself with smart people. He was a yes man to Todd Bowles, if Gase becomes a good HC Mac only has to piggy back off him. Lot of pressure on Gase, he must know how poorly of a gm mac has been, so I’m sure he isn’t expecting much help from him to deliver a winner 

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2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Seems so obvious, yet so many fail to comprehend this.

Fitz was signed as the backup

Petty was drafted to hopefully become a backup

McCown was signed as a backup/stopgap

Nothing to comprehend.

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I just love the fact that as long as the word 'rebuild' has not been uttered it is totally fine for the Gm to do a TERRIBLE job of drafting players.

"Oh the rebuild had not started until we got Darnold thus it is okay for the Gm to not draft oline, utterly strike out drafting Wr, never getting a pass rusher in 4 years."

Some of these comments totally remind me of fan comments for the hockey team I cheer for the Edmonton Oilers.  13 years later and 4 rebuilds and the team still sucks.

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11 hours ago, GreenReaper said:

That's because it's very very hard to successfully have a legit rebuild...here it comes...without a FQB! 

You don't spend big for talent to surround perennial backups like Fitz or McCown.  Even if you're fortunate enough to have one or two decent fun seasons with them...you'll end up having to rebuild again.  

This is year 2 of a legit rebuild. And it's a shame to have wasted Darnold's first year on a rookie contract under Bowles. 

Now we have a 4 year window left to surround Darnold and the D to go get the Lombardi Trophy.  And I feel more confident with Gase & Williams that it can get done.

Let me also add this.  It's more sensible for Darnold to succeed when you surround him with talent. So it is true with Mac. Remember...he didn't pick Bowles...it was a forced marriage.  Now that Mac is surrounded with better talent (Gase & Gregg) I expect him to succeed.  IMO...so far...he doing it. There's more mutual respect between these three then there was before. And with the GM-HC-DC collaboration...I think it will carry over into the draft.  

Jets are in a much better situation then they've been in a long time. And with a legit young FQB...it shouldn't end soon

 

None of this excuses neglecting OL in the draft and actually rebuilding the team for a young QB to thrive around. He did not do that, instead, he signed Matt Forte for RB, resigned Winters and drafted Chad Hansen, ArDarius Stewart and Devin Smith. You build a team first like the Browns did when they traded for Jarvis Landry, drafted Antonio Calloway and also Njoku the year before. They made sure the QB they were going to draft had weapons and protection before hand. Maccagnan didn’t. Not only did Maccagnan not build a team for the young QB to thrive in, he also didn’t move the needle on the impact meter for this roster.

so no...make no mistake..he’s had 17 rebuilds. He just saves his ass drafting Darnold because there was clearly a resurgence of patience attached to drafting the kid.  

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5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I'll believe things are different when we dodge Q. Williams, and draft a capable WR and start sacking the opposition.... those 3 pot holes are the lifeblood of SOJ

I sort of feel like they think they're OK at WR especially after Crowder and would completely draft a guy like Q. Williams (Mac's BPA method!) 

I see them attacking CB, DL/EDGE, and OL in the draft and maybe TE. Your typical SOJ draft. 

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1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

I agree but you don't take Clemens in the 2nd either.. Everyone thinks Mangini was the brains drafting in his time with the Jets. He gets credit for Revis, Mangold,Brick and Harris but he also got rid of Abe,Mawae and ran Pete Kendall out of town over a million bucks.. And then we had the Ghost and the Boar Hunter among many other failures.. I'd add Brad Smith as a plus but Mike Westoff said that was on him..

That's the point isn't it. Mangini was a smart evaluator of talent, but no GM bats 1.000.

The "best" GM in history won his award because of a 6th round pick, pure dumb luck. 

If Darnold has a big year I guarantee you Mac isn't going anywhere.

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2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Exactly. Any thought that 6-7 wins is a successful season ended with Darnold's rookie season last year.

He now has an offensive minded HC, and weapons around him in Bell, Anderson, Crowder, Herndon and Enunwa. Its his second season now. He has to make the same move forward that QBs like Wentz, Goff and others back to Peyton did if he wants to be perceived like them.

You just paid Mosely nearly QB money for a defense loaded with former #1 picks that is coached by a "defensive mastermind."

Its time to stop accepting failure and demand more then mediocrity here. A few more tweaks in FA, a good draft are not a lot to ask for. The FO has to do its job through the draft, then the CS and players have to do theirs. Enough with the "6 wins is progress BS."

I'm greedy...and want 9-11 W's this season. 

Getting Darnold into the playoffs ASAP is important preparation to establish this team as playoff contenders.  Best chance for the Lombardi Trophy is in this 4 year rookie contract window.  It starts now...this year. 

For me...not making the playoffs this year is disappointing.  But having a winning season would be definitely encouraging.  I realize Jets only have an outside chance for the playoffs  And that...you can't always get what you want. 

Over a 16 game grind...you need better depth then what the Jets have right now.  Starters need to stay healthy. And some of the younger players need to have a breakout year.  IMO Jets also need to be minimum 4-2 and hopefully 5-1 in AFCE. Probably 6-2 at home. 

I'm excited...and looking forward to the games...can't wait! 

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80 when I was refering to the QB's I was talking about us the fans ... It was obvious Macc was gambling Hacks talents would pull him through, they didn't. Also when it comes to those other QB's no one was picking them to go early in that draft or teams like Houston and KC would have traded up. No one could have predicted what Mahomes and Watson are doing.


Who cares what the fans knew or thought? This thread is about Macc sucking.

It’s part of his job to have foresight. Believing in Hack and failing to believe in Mahomes or Watson fall entirely on his shoulders.

We’re extremely lucky to have Darnold, but it doesn’t excuse any of his past mistakes at QB. Not one iota.&
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I think we are arguing the semantics of the term "rebuild," not the reality of what happened, although I will still disagree that Fitz or McCown were ever viewed by Mac as potential franchise QB's. That's pretty ridiculous. He got some good mileage out of them, but they were both patented aging journeymen QB's. Mac knew that very well.


This post is like Clinton questioning the definition of the word “is”.
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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Who cares what the fans knew or thought? This thread is about Macc sucking.

It’s part of his job to have foresight. Believing in Hack and failing to believe in Mahomes or Watson fall entirely on his shoulders.

We’re extremely lucky to have Darnold, but it doesn’t excuse any of his past mistakes at QB. Not one iota.&

 

This thread is about the rebuild and the wonderful happiness we are all feeling right now as Jets fans with a Franchise QB one of the best RB's in football a very good slot Receiver and a defense that should Improve by a large margin with a real coach and some nice additions. 

Wonderful

Happy

Jets fans

:)

 

80 when did you go to the dark side ? ?

 

 

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That's the point isn't it. Mangini was a smart evaluator of talent, but no GM bats 1.000.
The "best" GM in history won his award because of a 6th round pick, pure dumb luck. 
If Darnold has a big year I guarantee you Mac isn't going anywhere.


Obviously. You don’t bring the GM back without the assumption he’ll be here another 2-3 years. A true “lame duck” GM can’t really be a thing, because otherwise his drafts will be purposed for getting immediate starters to fill needs rather than drafting quality players.

The moment Macc was retained, Johnson ensured he’d be here the next 2 seasons. But that vote of confidence doesn’t mean there’s anything positive about what Macc is. If he fails for yet another draft, we’re f*cked all over again. Simple as that.
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This thread is about the rebuild and the wonderful happiness we are all feeling right now as Jets fans with a Franchise QB one of the best RB's in football a very good slot Receiver and a defense that should Improve by a large margin with a real coach and some nice additions. 
Wonderful
Happy
Jets fans

 
80 when did you go to the dark side ?
 
 


“The rebuild”. Which didn’t really start till the moment Darnold was drafted, apparently.

This thread is about why we should have confidence in the GM. We shouldn’t.
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32 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

I'm greedy...and want 9-11 W's this season. 

Getting Darnold into the playoffs ASAP is important preparation to establish this team as playoff contenders.  Best chance for the Lombardi Trophy is in this 4 year rookie contract window.  It starts now...this year. 

For me...not making the playoffs this year is disappointing.  But having a winning season would be definitely encouraging.  I realize Jets only have an outside chance for the playoffs  And that...you can't always get what you want. 

Over a 16 game grind...you need better depth then what the Jets have right now.  Starters need to stay healthy. And some of the younger players need to have a breakout year.  IMO Jets also need to be minimum 4-2 and hopefully 5-1 in AFCE. Probably 6-2 at home. 

I'm excited...and looking forward to the games...can't wait! 

I don't think being greedy is a bad thing for a fan to be. Most NY sports fans should take a page out of the Yankee fans book (man it hurt me to say that, LOL) and expect to win.

The only thing I'd take issue with in your post is the  "Getting Darnold into the playoffs is important..." phrase. Screw that. We didn't pick him 3rd to TAKE HIM anywhere. If he's what most here say he is, (hell we've got a poster here who's convinced he'll score 30 pts a game) he should be LEADING US into the playoffs. As I said in my prior post, his rookie year is over. He has a Offensive HC and the weapons now. Its time for him to step up in his second year the way other elite QBs have.

I love Mayfield, but I love the Jets way more. Darnold is my QB because he's the Jets QB. I don't want him to be coddled, I want him to put us on his shoulders the way a FQB does, and I want it to start this year. If it doesn't, I'm going to be VERY unpopular around here in 2019.

OK now who's first in with "You're already unpopular around here?" :biggrin:

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Fitz was signed as the backup

Petty was drafted to hopefully become a backup

McCown was signed as a backup/stopgap

Nothing to comprehend.

Petty was projected by some “experts “ to be a late first rounder or 2nd before draft. That high of a pick you do not waste on “ backup ceiling “ 

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