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Is Bell the best offensive player that ever played for the Jets?


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I saw my brother this weekend (Giants fan) and he said you must feel really good about the Jets? My answer was we have been in this spot before where we brought in pro bowlers.  His response was Bell is possibly the best O player ever to put on a Jets uniform. I thought about this for a while and I said you are probably right about that. I don't even think Namath was better (Namath was a little above average imo). So is Bell the best player the jets have ever acquired on O? I know he hasn't  played a down yet, this is just predicting there are no drop offs from career averages. 

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I think so.  Who would be in the running?  Riggins, Freeman McNeil, Maynard, Toon, Sauer, Curtis.  I don't think we have ever had a more dynamic player.  Hopefully we get the guy we saw in Pitt and not a run down version of him but assuming he's healthy and fresh he's the most dynamic player we have had in my lifetime.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No.

First, he hasn't played for the Jets yet, so maybe it might be reasonable to wait till after his fist carry in a game that counts before we declare him our GOAT.

Second, we've had some exceptional players in our time.  Riggins (HOF'er), Martin (HOF'er), Tomlinson (HOf'er), and a number of lesser non-HOF runners, and that's just RB. We've had a bunch of great WR's too.  We have one HOF Center (Mawae) and another coming (Mangold).

Yes, he was up till 2017 a very good, elite even, RB.  Lets see what he is now, here. 

He's much more dynamic than riggins or Curtis, we got the old LT will was good for us for about a handful of games.  If we got LT from a few years earlier he'd be #1.  I expect we'll get the great bell for at least 2 seasons.  That won't make him a greater Jet than Curtis but I think at their peaks Bell is better.

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29 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No.

First, he hasn't played for the Jets yet, so maybe it might be reasonable to wait till after his fist carry in a game that counts before we declare him our GOAT.

Second, we've had some exceptional players in our time.  Riggins (HOF'er), Martin (HOF'er), Tomlinson (HOf'er), and a number of lesser non-HOF runners, and that's just RB. We've had a bunch of great WR's too.  We have one HOF Center (Mawae) and another coming (Mangold).

Yes, he was up till 2017 a very good, elite even, RB.  Lets see what he is now, here. 

I don't  think the jets version of Riggins is the one in the HOF and we got one good year out of Tomlinson. Martin was very good but he never put the team on his back to win a game and wasn't  so great at the GL. They only great WR we have had are Walker, Maynard, and Toon. I'm not sure any (maybe Maynard is) are in the HOF. Yes on Mawae and Mangold but I probably should have written in skill player.

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11 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  think the jets version of Riggins is the one in the HOF and we got one good year out of Tomlinson. Martin was very good but he never put the team on his back to win a game and wasn't  so great at the GL. They only great WR we have had are Walker, Maynard, and Toon. I'm not sure any (maybe Maynard is) are in the HOF. Yes on Mawae and Mangold but I probably should have written in skill player.

I think you might be missing the point.  Bell hasn't played a single snap yet.  He isn't his resume, he has to produce here before he is anything, much less the Jets Franchise GOAT.

Look, we're all excited at what Bell MIGHT do. I just this kind of preemptive hyperbole is silly.  It's the same type of silly as people proclaiming Darnold the greatest QB the Jets ever had, or a top 3 QB in the NFL last year.  I mean, come on.  Let these guys do something first, right?

(Also, I think people are already forgetting exactly how good Curtis Martin was....)

Quote

Lighten up.

Ok cool.  I'm gonna go start the "Is Darren Lee the greatest LB in NFL history" thread, and when I get the expected response, I'll just say "lighten up, it's the offseason!!"  Lol.

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7 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

you shouldnt bother with the CuMar fanclub...   4.0 ypc

 

No HOF without Paul Hackett as the OC.. First 6 years under 4 ypc half the time with Hackett always 4 or better.. How many Jet records does he hold?? Not to mention he didn't like football and called the Jets a bottom of the barrel team he never wanted to play for..:roll:

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Joe Namath is the most talented player, Al Toon would have to be second. You can't look at stats for Namath - he was the first QB to crack 4000 yards and that was in 13 games. He had a bum knee his whole life, they never called late hits, and his receivers could be held all game. Guys that think Namath was only above average are pretty lazy about knowing who the most iconic player this team has ever produced is. His talent was through the roof. It was unfortunate that he played his whole career on one leg. Toon was amazing - just retired early due to too many concussions. Not saying Bell can't be the best one day, he is an amazing talent.

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Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb AV
Career       168 166 3518 14101 90 70 4.0 83.9 20.9 606 484 3329 6.9 10 41 2.9 19.8   4002 4.4 17430 100 29 128
8 yrs NYJ     123 123 2560 10302 58 60 4.0 83.8 20.8 453 367 2439 6.6 5 34 3.0 19.8   2927 4.4 12741 63 17 92
1995* 22 NWE RB 28 16 15 368 1487 14 49 4.0 92.9 23.0 50 30 261 8.7 1 27 1.9 16.3 60.0% 398 4.4 1748 15 5 10
1996* 23 NWE RB 28 16 15 316 1152 14 57 3.6 72.0 19.8 52 46 333 7.2 3 41 2.9 20.8 88.5% 362 4.1 1485 17 4 13
1997 24 NWE RB 28 13 13 274 1160 4 70 4.2 89.2 21.1 51 41 296 7.2 1 22 3.2 22.8 80.4% 315 4.6 1456 5 3 13
1998* 25 NYJ RB 28 15 15 369 1287 8 60 3.5 85.8 24.6 57 43 365 8.5 1 23 2.9 24.3 75.4% 412 4.0 1652 9 5 13
1999 26 NYJ RB 28 16 16 367 1464 5 50 4.0 91.5 22.9 49 45 259 5.8 0 34 2.8 16.2 91.8% 412 4.2 1723 5 2 13
2000 27 NYJ RB 28 16 16 316 1204 9 55 3.8 75.3 19.8 96 70 508 7.3 2 31 4.4 31.8 72.9% 386 4.4 1712 11 2 10
2001* 28 NYJ RB 28 16 16 333 1513 10 47 4.5 94.6 20.8 63 53 320 6.0 0 27 3.3 20.0 84.1% 386 4.7 1833 10 2 15
2002 29 NYJ RB 28 16 16 261 1094 7 35 4.2 68.4 16.3 56 49 362 7.4 0 28 3.1 22.6 87.5% 310 4.7 1456 7 0 12
2003 30 NYJ RB 28 16 16 323 1308 2 56 4.0 81.8 20.2 53 42 262 6.2 0 29 2.6 16.4 79.2% 365 4.3 1570 2 2 11
2004*+ 31 NYJ RB 28 16 16 371 1697 12 25 4.6 106.1 23.2 49 41 245 6.0 2 22 2.6 15.3 83.7% 412 4.7 1942 14 2 14
2005 32 NYJ RB 28 12 12 220 735 5 49 3.3 61.3 18.3 30 24 118 4.9 0 14 2.0 9.8 80.0% 244 3.5 853 5 2 4

Curtis Martin.

  Games Rushing Receiving Total Yds      
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb AV
Career       62 62 1229 5336 35 81 4.3 86.1 19.8 397 312 2660 8.5 7 48 5.0 42.9   1541 5.2 7996 42 8 60
2013 21 PIT RB 26 13 13 244 860 8 43 3.5 66.2 18.8 66 45 399 8.9 0 43 3.5 30.7 68.2% 289 4.4 1259 8 1 8
2014*+ 22 PIT RB 26 16 16 290 1361 8 81 4.7 85.1 18.1 105 83 854 10.3 3 48 5.2 53.4 79.0% 373 5.9 2215 11 0 17
2015 23 PIT rb 26 6 6 113 556 3 42 4.9 92.7 18.8 26 24 136 5.7 0 20 4.0 22.7 92.3% 137 5.1 692 3 0 5
2016* 24 PIT RB 26 12 12 261 1268 7 44 4.9 105.7 21.8 94 75 616 8.2 2 32 6.3 51.3 79.8% 336 5.6 1884 9 4 15
2017*+ 25 PIT RB 26 15 15 321 1291 9 27 4.0 86.1 21.4 106 85 655 7.7 2 42 5.7 43.7 80.2% 406 4.8 1946 11 3 15

La'Veon Bell

Judge for yourself, but personally I think Martin was a better runner, Bell a better pass catcher.  Martin did it for a very long time at a very elite level and almost never missed time due to injury or off field issues, he was the definition of durable, reliable and tough.  Bell lost half a year, then part of a year, then sat out a yea for money.

Bell's numbers are nothing to sneeze at, but it should also be reminded that he had a borderline HOF QB, some exceptional WR's, and a pretty damn good O-line for pretty much his entire tenure in Pitts.  

I get being excited, and we should be.  But we SHOULD wait and see how he plays here before we go off the deep end, really. 

And we don't need to demean or dismiss or insult some of our best players in history in order to talk up the new guy.  New guy will do just fine without such fan service.

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36 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think you might be missing the point.  Bell hasn't played a single snap yet.  He isn't his resume, he has to produce here before he is anything, much less the Jets Franchise GOAT.

Look, we're all excited at what Bell MIGHT do. I just this kind of preemptive hyperbole is silly.  It's the same type of silly as people proclaiming Darnold the greatest QB the Jets ever had, or a top 3 QB in the NFL last year.  I mean, come on.  Let these guys do something first, right?

(Also, I think people are already forgetting exactly how good Curtis Martin was....)

Ok cool.  I'm gonna go start the "Is Darren Lee the greatest LB in NFL history" thread, and when I get the expected response, I'll just say "lighten up, it's the offseason!!"  Lol.

This last part is plain stupid

 Really, you could have at least picked Adam's. 

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31 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Joe Namath is the most talented player, Al Toon would have to be second. You can't look at stats for Namath - he was the first QB to crack 4000 yards and that was in 13 games. He had a bum knee his whole life, they never called late hits, and his receivers could be held all game. Guys that think Namath was only above average are pretty lazy about knowing who the most iconic player this team has ever produced is. His talent was through the roof. It was unfortunate that he played his whole career on one leg. Toon was amazing - just retired early due to too many concussions. Not saying Bell can't be the best one day, he is an amazing talent.

His 4000 yds came at the expense of the team when he threw almost 30 ints and threw away the 1967 season.  Joe was damaged goods when we drafted him, talent wise he's as great as anyone who has ever played but he never was fully healthy.

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I saw my brother this weekend (Giants fan) and he said you must feel really good about the Jets? My answer was we have been in this spot before where we brought in pro bowlers.  His response was Bell is possibly the best O player ever to put on a Jets uniform. I thought about this for a while and I said you are probably right about that. I don't even think Namath was better (Namath was a little above average imo). So is Bell the best player the jets have ever acquired on O? I know he hasn't  played a down yet, this is just predicting there are no drop offs from career averages. 

I would like to see him play a snap or two before designating him best ever. But that is just me. 

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50 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

No HOF without Paul Hackett as the OC.. First 6 years under 4 ypc half the time with Hackett always 4 or better.. How many Jet records does he hold?? Not to mention he didn't like football and called the Jets a bottom of the barrel team he never wanted to play for..:roll:

comparing Jets to other Jets limits your football comparisons to usually very average players.

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2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

His 4000 yds came at the expense of the team when he threw almost 30 ints and threw away the 1967 season.  Joe was damaged goods when we drafted him, talent wise he's as great as anyone who has ever played but he never was fully healthy.

+1 Both knee's were shot by draft time and surgery back then was sub par to say the least..Many draft experts at the time thought Joe would last 3-4 years at best.. Joe was a scrambling QB early in his  college career but even wearing knee braces in the pro's Joe had 7 rushing td's compared to 0 for Kenny O..:beer:

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1 hour ago, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

He is.  Not even close.

 

when was the last time a jets player went in the first round of a fantasy draft like Le’Veon Bell will this year? Never 

Not to mention one can just point to Lev Bells record average yards per game from scrimmage, and say here is my argument why he is the best offensive player to ever play statistically never mind for the Jets.  

 As far as talent goes I’d put Al Toon up there, but he still can’t touch the production of Bell, and Bell is doing it during the pass happy era, and has adjusted from a power runner out of Mich St. to possibly the most dynamic dual threat RB in the NFL by changing, and tailoring his game around the new NFL (I’m sure awesome coaching in Pitt, and a HOF QB have a lot to do with this, but Bell was coach able, and willing to adjust, AND had the talent to make the change).  

 Maybe Tomlinson, and Faulk would be guys who would be better in today’s NFL, both were all time greats when they played, and like Bell could beat you worse in the passing game then the running game if you don’t game plan for it.

 So I mean yeah Bell is the best offensive player the Jets have had while still in his prime (he better ******* be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), but if we’re just going off of what they have done before they got here since that’s the case with Bell right now then I’d say Tomlinson is the best offensive player the Jets ever had, but I’m pretty sure you mean the best offensive player while on the Jets, and I’ll say their is a high probability Bell still has 2-3 high quality years left while Tomlinson had about 8 quality games left on his legs when the Jets acquired him, and he retired the year after. 

 So in that context yes I’d be ok projecting Bell will be the best offensive weapon the Jets ever had talent wise, now Gase needs to take that talent, and make Bell the center piece around the offense which will in turn open up the big plays down the field to specifically Robbie Anderson, but also Q, Herndon, and Crowder all 3 can get open down field either with route running Crowder, freakish speed, size, and power combo Q, and Herndon showed flashes of a TE who can be a matchup nightmare for LB’s, and Safties down the field on seam, post, and post corner/flag routes.

 Darnold throws, and anticipates those post corner routes/flag routes with elite accuracy IMO, and those when NEVER under thrown, or rarely thrown into over top, and underneath bracket coverage though Darnold has hit this pass a few times against this coverage by freezing the Safety/moving him, and I’ve even recalled him fitting a few in between that coverage when the Safety didn’t freeze.

 Darnold needs to get his timing on the deep ball down with Robbie, and hopefully IF Robbie is still a Jet this season Sam can learn to trust that when Robbie is even he’s leaving throwing him MORE deep balls which I predict to happen because of LEV BELL’s presence will get Robbie so many more 1 on 1 coverages, but he doesn’t need 1 on 1 coverages to beat a team over the top, and that is where Bell’s presence will be most impactful freezing the pass rush, and possibly getting Safties who are supposed to play deep coverage on Robbies side to bite on play action, or just buy Darnold that one extra half second needed to set, and throw as Robbie gets even with the deepest defender, and Sam can not only see the throw he should make, but be able to step into to get it down the field not under thrown to Robbie, or to a spot on the field where Robbie can make a play.

 Well my excitement of the possibilities this offense has to be dynamic should Darnold take that next step, Bell comes to play to win not just cash a check, and Gase installs/game plans/calls great plays off installs, and game plans an offense to maximize the guys listed above not just Darnold’s talents.

 If all that comes to pass the Jets offense will actually look like the 2017 Steelers offense statistically wise, and most importantly PPG wise IMO.  

 Now everyone will possibly have to be patient for the first 4-8 weeks new coach, new Offensive System, minimum 4 new starters, and not to mention Darnold still only 22, and in his 2nd year.  Unfortunately not every QB can be expected to make the kind of leap Patrick Mahomes II made this past season in historic fashion, but I do believe IF the Jets can tread water for the 1st half of the season with good D, and the occasional good drive, or big play to stay in the race like say 4-4 to be wildcard relevant, or 5-3 to keep the eyes on winning the division, and if healthy enough could really get it together offensively the 2nd half of the year (like it takes most teams with the new practice rules), and make a real serious run at a 6-2, or better finish, again those first 4-8 games are crucial start 2-6, or even 3-5 the team could quit, or most likely scenario the Jets, and their fans will feel the way they did at the end of the 1999 season the not playoff bound Jets are possibly the best team at seasons end in the AFC (Jets would have beaten that Titans team IMO the way they were playing to finish the season even with Lucas at QB the team would have ran through a building for him should he have asked he was that kind of guy/leader).

 Offensive line some will say, meh the Jets got the Alan Faneca type LG in KO who can pull, and maul which is really just enough for Bell to keep the chains moving when asked, and occasionally breaking huge chunks behind KO, that in itself will help the rest in pass blocking, and Bell helps there, and letting Darnold be himself, and allow him to go off script outside the pocket to make plays i’m not worried as most about the OL.

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2 hours ago, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

He is.  Not even close.

 

when was the last time a jets player went in the first round of a fantasy draft like Le’Veon Bell will this year? Never 

I wouldn’t take him in the first round of a fantasy league. 10 team standard? I see him as a 2nd rounder. It’s hard to verify his value with him not playing in a year. I think he’s a solid number two, fantasy wise. If we’re talking PPR, he’d likely move up. 

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