Two Round Mock from CBS

[GREENBEAN]

SO the Giants pass on Haskins sitting there at 6? I don't buy it. 

[greenwave81]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Sorry,Brick you don't know what you're talking about.  You see DT and have a Pavlovian episode.  He will be much a much better player than Kris Jenkins ever dreamt of being. The fact that you even mention Kris Jenkins when discussing Quinnen Williams shows that you completely misread  this player. He is not your typical DT. 

He is fast, extremely so.  He doesn't "absorb", the line, he moves it.  He is not a " run stuffer".  He is a disrupter, he moves the line of scrimmage backwards, into the backfield, and makes his plays there.  He sacks the quarterback. And he is still growing and improving.

I liked Kris Jenkins, don't get me wrong.  But Quinnen Williams and Kris Jenkins are not the same type of player.  It's not even close.  How do you like your Crow? Saute'ed  or Roasted?

Let's go back 4 yrs:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487627/article/scout-likens-leonard-williams-to-reggie-white

 

[WayneChrebet80]

I personally think Josh Allen would be the top defensive player taken if he went to Alabama or Ohio State.

[WayneChrebet80]

9 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

SO the Giants pass on Haskins sitting there at 6? I don't buy it. 

Based on Gettlemans comments today I dont think a QB is at play at 6. 

[Skeptable]

3 minutes ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

I personally think Josh Allen would be the top defensive player taken if he went to Alabama or Ohio State.

Maybe but he will bust the same either way... The boar hunter went to Ohio state and he was great 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Sorry,Brick you don't know what you're talking about.  You see DT and have a Pavlovian episode.  He will be much a much better player than Kris Jenkins ever dreamt of being. The fact that you even mention Kris Jenkins when discussing Quinnen Williams shows that you completely misread  this player. He is not your typical DT. 

He is fast, extremely so.  He doesn't "absorb", the line, he moves it.  He is not a " run stuffer".  He is a disrupter, he moves the line of scrimmage backwards, into the backfield, and makes his plays there.  He sacks the quarterback. And he is still growing and improving.

I liked Kris Jenkins, don't get me wrong.  But Quinnen Williams and Kris Jenkins are not the same type of player.  It's not even close.  How do you like your Crow? Saute'ed  or Roasted?

Well the issue is that if the jets are playing a 3-4 the ends have big run game responsibility.    Williams had one really  good year.  He proceeded to do nothing at all in the biggest game of the year vs clemson.

We've heard the same shi* about every dlineman we have drafted over the last 10 years and there has been a lot of them.

The guy had 8 sacks in his last year.  about the same as leo williams.

If the jets draft this guy at 3 it will be a huge fail by the gm.

We've drafted dline high for 10 years and it has done squat for this team overall.

 

[Mark78]

2 hours ago, BrickTamland said:

I am happy to eat crow if becessary but this whole quinnen  Williams “omg what a catch!!” theory is a bunch of BS

Leo Williams...omg what a catch!!

[Mark78]

2 hours ago, KINGDIRK said:

Ill take the 17th overall from Gmen to swap 3 for 6.

In that scenario it’s not out of the question that Allen falls to 6. TB plays a 4-3 D. Maybe they take Sweat instead. 

Sweat has a heart condition 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

25 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Let's go back 4 yrs:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487627/article/scout-likens-leonard-williams-to-reggie-white

 

Four years ago Quinnen Williams was 17 years old.  He was attending Wenonah High School in Birmingham Alabama, where I'm sure he was the best player on his football team.  He committed to Auburn University, before changing his mind and attending Alabama. There is no information about what he did after school, or during his summer vacation.  Sorry.  Guess that about covers it.

[Mark78]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Sorry,Brick you don't know what you're talking about.  You see DT and have a Pavlovian episode.  He will be much a much better player than Kris Jenkins ever dreamt of being. The fact that you even mention Kris Jenkins when discussing Quinnen Williams shows that you completely misread  this player. He is not your typical DT. 

He is fast, extremely so.  He doesn't "absorb", the line, he moves it.  He is not a " run stuffer".  He is a disrupter, he moves the line of scrimmage backwards, into the backfield, and makes his plays there.  He sacks the quarterback. And he is still growing and improving.

I liked Kris Jenkins, don't get me wrong.  But Quinnen Williams and Kris Jenkins are not the same type of player.  It's not even close.  How do you like your Crow? Saute'ed  or Roasted?

I'm curious about the Quinnen hype compared to the Leo hype?  Were/are the expectations the same?  If so, I'll pass.

[Mark78]

1 hour ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Not sure Gettleman is that type of guy, making a splash to appease fans.  He knows he has to rebuild the offensive line and the defense and that's what he's doing.  May not be sexy, but necessary.  He's going to get a QB one way, or another.  That's what trading Odell was all about. 

Or was trading Odell for Eli because Odell was not happy with him?

[Mark78]

40 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Let's go back 4 yrs:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487627/article/scout-likens-leonard-williams-to-reggie-white

 

?

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

Based on Gettlemans comments today I dont think a QB is at play at 6. 

Based on a GM's comments pre draft?  I see.   

[BrickTamland]

2 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Nobody is drafting allen in the top 3... He is Monet good from far... Far from good

I think so too... 

Williams is the best player in this draft outside of Murray. 

Williams is a game wrecker and he will complement leo very well

So a 1 year starter 5’10” air raid QB in a no-defense conference and with character concerns is the top player in draft....

Followed  by a 1 year starter DT on the Alabama defensive line. 

yikes

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I agree, it's like all of a sudden DL is the most highly rated and important position in the draft. I have heard more than once "you just can't pass on a player with those measurables and athletic talent". Doesnt seem to matter if they can get to the QB either. So we chose Wilkerson, Coples, Richardson, Williams, all "can't miss guys" or "best player in the draft" Leo and all of them moved the bar not so much if at all. Now all we here is Quinnen Williams this Quinnen Williams that, another "cant miss" guy. Pass. To THIS Jets team OL is infinitely more important. If he is so good, why cant we get a premium to trade down and let someone else draft him??

 

Exactly.

1 hour ago, greenwave81 said:

Heard the same BS about Leo Williams.  Against Clemson,  Q did bupkus.

We don't need another over-hyped DT.

Exactly

1 hour ago, greenwave81 said:

Let's go back 4 yrs:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487627/article/scout-likens-leonard-williams-to-reggie-white

 

Exactly

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Well the issue is that if the jets are playing a 3-4 the ends have big run game responsibility.    Williams had one really  good year.  He proceeded to do nothing at all in the biggest game of the year vs clemson.

We've heard the same shi* about every dlineman we have drafted over the last 10 years and there has been a lot of them.

The guy had 8 sacks in his last year.  about the same as leo williams.

If the jets draft this guy at 3 it will be a huge fail by the gm.

We've drafted dline high for 10 years and it has done squat for this team overall.

 

Exactly

42 minutes ago, Mark78 said:

Leo Williams...omg what a catch!!

Exactly

[neckdemon]

1 hour ago, Guilhermezmc said:

So did mike evans

mike evans actually had college production

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

25 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well the issue is that if the jets are playing a 3-4 the ends have big run game responsibility.    Williams had one really  good year.  He proceeded to do nothing at all in the biggest game of the year vs clemson.

We've heard the same shi* about every dlineman we have drafted over the last 10 years and there has been a lot of them.

The guy had 8 sacks in his last year.  about the same as leo williams.

If the jets draft this guy at 3 it will be a huge fail by the gm.

We've drafted dline high for 10 years and it has done squat for this team overall.

 

While the word is that the Jets are playing a 3-4 defense, it is common knowledge that Greg Williams preference and specialty is the 4-3.  Further, the base package is sketchy at best, given his penchant for using multiple fronts and schemes that are interchangeable between a 3-4 and 4-3.  Basically it's semantics.  The 3-4 "proclamation" was based on current roster personnel [when they had basically less than 30 players under contract], and may have been just for public consumption.  We'll see.

The past failures of individual players should have no impact on the potential and skills of this player.  Jeff George, Vince Young, Joey Harrington, Jack Thompson[who?], Mike Phipps, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Jamarcus Russell, and the infamous Ryan Leaf, were all drafted with the 3rd overall draft pick or better.  Were those players reasons to pass on Sam Darnold?  Of course not.

You said that Quinnen Williams had 8 sacks in his last year.  Nick Bosa had 8,5 sacks in his best year.  Did you know that?  Yet you'd have no problem drafting him because he's an "edge" rusher.  Makes no sense. In comparing their best seasons, Quinnen Williams also had an astonishing 37 more tackles, and 3.5 more tackles for loss, while only playing one more game.

 Quinnen Williams in 2018 was voted First Team All-SEC, Unanimous All American, and the winner of the Outland Trophy given to the country's best interior lineman.  Guess who won that award in 2013... Aaron Donald. That's a pretty good "1 year" that he had for himself.  As for the game against Clemson, the entire team was outplayed that day by a superior opponent. Does that mean that none of the Alabama players should be considered top talent in the draft, including Jonah Williams, Josh Jacobs, and Irv Smith.  Probably not.

Don't get caught up in the hype about the past and the specter of the dreaded DT pick in the first round.  Every player and every draft class are unique to themselves. Based on this year and the statistics Quinnen Williams is a better, less risky pick than Nick Bosa, yet I don't hear any outrage about him being the consensus number 3 pick, much less the overall #1.  Why?  Because DT's are not trendy?  History?  Laughable.

I understand your frustration.  I'm a Jet fan.  We all know about frustration, all too well.  Quinnen Williams is not the cause of that, nor should he be the victim.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

57 minutes ago, Mark78 said:

?  Let's go back four years.

None of your arguments address Quinnen Williams, the player, the stats or the accomplishments.  They are all based on "history", the "position" or another player.  That's no way to win an argument.  Surely you guys can do better than that,

  As for the "Quinnen hype".  What about the "Nick Bosa hype", or the" Josh Allen hype", or the" Kyler Murray hype" ?? I don't understand exactly what you're talking about.  I'm curious about what you mean by hype?  It is by definition extravagant exaggeration.  Quinnen Williams statistics and accolades were earned and measurable, much more so than Nick Bosa's.  Check the statistics.  So where's the hype? 

You presented as proof of Quinnen Williams unfitness for the 3rd overall pick an article about Leonard Williams?? Good Job.  We usually see eye to eye on things.  This time you're out in left field.  Regards.

1 hour ago, Mark78 said:

I'm curious about the Quinnen hype compared to the Leo hype?  Were/are the expectations the same?  If so, I'll pass.

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Four years ago Quinnen Williams was 17 years old.  He was attending Wenonah High School in Birmingham Alabama, where I'm sure he was the best player on his football team.  He committed to Auburn University, before changing his mind and attending Alabama. There is no information about what he did after school, or during his summer vacation.  Sorry.  Guess that about covers it.

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 hours ago, cant wait said:

is that accurate? I saw nick bosa had a 1.55 10yd split at the combine so I would have figured he would have the higher score of the 2. unless the height is what’s skewing the number here

The 3cone is what’s skewing the number here. And it’s accurate.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

4 hours ago, Team archer said:

Pretty much. Its sad cause most of the teams we thought would trade up traded for a QB. Sucks we cant trade back and set another franchise back for 10 years

You’re probably right....but not so fast...you just never never know how things will shake out until the pick is finially made..you could hear absolutely nothing, Jets hear nothing...then someone calls up Maccagnan with the Jets on the clock and he gets his socks knocked off with an offer.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

While the word is that the Jets are playing a 3-4 defense, it is common knowledge that Greg Williams preference and specialty is the 4-3.  Further, the base package is sketchy at best, given his penchant for using multiple fronts and schemes that are interchangeable between a 3-4 and 4-3.  Basically it's semantics.  The 3-4 "proclamation" was based on current roster personnel [when they had basically less than 30 players under contract], and may have been just for public consumption.  We'll see.

The past failures of individual players should have no impact on the potential and skills of this player.  Jeff George, Vince Young, Joey Harrington, Jack Thompson[who?], Mike Phipps, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Jamarcus Russell, and the infamous Ryan Leaf, were all drafted with the 3rd overall draft pick or better.  Were those players reasons to pass on Sam Darnold?  Of course not.

You said that Quinnen Williams had 8 sacks in his last year.  Nick Bosa had 8,5 sacks in his best year.  Did you know that?  Yet you'd have no problem drafting him because he's an "edge" rusher.  Makes no sense. In comparing their best seasons, Quinnen Williams also had an astonishing 37 more tackles, and 3.5 more tackles for loss, while only playing one more game.

 Quinnen Williams in 2018 was voted First Team All-SEC, Unanimous All American, and the winner of the Outland Trophy given to the country's best interior lineman.  Guess who won that award in 2013... Aaron Donald. That's a pretty good "1 year" that he had for himself.  As for the game against Clemson, the entire team was outplayed that day by a superior opponent. Does that mean that none of the Alabama players should be considered top talent in the draft, including Jonah Williams, Josh Jacobs, and Irv Smith.  Probably not.

Don't get caught up in the hype about the past and the specter of the dreaded DT pick in the first round.  Every player and every draft class are unique to themselves. Based on this year and the statistics Quinnen Williams is a better, less risky pick than Nick Bosa, yet I don't hear any outrage about him being the consensus number 3 pick, much less the overall #1.  Why?  Because DT's are not trendy?  History?  Laughable.

I understand your frustration.  I'm a Jet fan.  We all know about frustration, all too well.  Quinnen Williams is not the cause of that, nor should he be the victim.

All your bold font styling does not make QW to the Jets a good move because it isn't. Are the Jets dumb enough to go DT again? Absolutely. Mac and his no boundaries BAP philosophy could enable that. But from many angles it would be a horrible pick. Look at Luck. You cannot repeat the mistake of taking "BAP, and as a result of that exposing Darnold to injury. This draft should be ALL about Darnold. OL C and WR and then more OL. If QW is really all that, we should be able to get significant compensation from a team to select him. Also, having watched him, I think he has LEO level bust written all over him. I just dont see him as an elite player at the next level.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

11 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

All your bold font styling does not make QW to the Jets a good move because it isn't. Are the Jets dumb enough to go DT again? Absolutely. Mac and his no boundaries BAP philosophy could enable that. But from many angles it would be a horrible pick. Look at Luck. You cannot repeat the mistake of taking "BAP, and as a result of that exposing Darnold to injury. This draft should be ALL about Darnold. OL C and WR and then more OL. If QW is really all that, we should be able to get significant compensation from a team to select him. Also, having watched him, I think he has LEO level bust written all over him. I just dont see him as an elite player at the next level.

Please try and support your argument with at least some quantifiable evidence instead of just opinion and sniping.  I have said a million times my first preference is to trade down, and barring, that Quinnen Williams is the best player available at the #3 pick. Bosa or Josh Allen would also be acceptable there. 

Your desire to draft an offensive lineman does not justify picking a player that is projected to go no higher than 10th overall at the #3 spot.  There is no center or wide receiver that justifies that pick either.  Wishing something to be true does not make it so. If we trade down the offensive line will and should be addressed.  Barring that scenario, it is folly.

  As for Quinnen Williams being a bust, not one credible expert NFL or College has suggested anything close.  Just a few Troglobites , and a few others here that I respect, including yourself, Mark, Beerfish, and a few others. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. No biggie.

[JohnnyLV]

12 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Please try and support your argument with at least some quantifiable evidence instead of just opinion and sniping.  I have said a million times my first preference is to trade down, and barring, that Quinnen Williams is the best player available at the #3 pick. Bosa or Josh Allen would also be acceptable there. 

Your desire to draft an offensive lineman does not justify picking a player that is projected to go no higher than 10th overall at the #3 spot.  There is no center or wide receiver that justifies that pick either.  Wishing something to be true does not make it so. If we trade down the offensive line will and should be addressed.  Barring that scenario, it is folly.

  As for Quinnen Williams being a bust, not one credible expert NFL or College has suggested anything close.  Just a few Troglobites , and a few others here that I respect, including yourself, Mark, Beerfish, and a few others. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. No biggie.

I said Leo type bust in terms of being slightly better than a JAG.  I am also not suggesting taking a huge reach on a player, but not all GMs believe in strictly BPA and most teams BPA board is weighted by positional value and team need. For the Jets, both positional value and team need should be very low with QW. If he is really as good of a prospect as you think our phones should be ringing off the hook for him but like with Leo they won't.  Do you feel he is a 13-15 sack 40 pressures guy in the NFL?

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

12 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I said Leo type bust in terms of being slightly better than a JAG.  I am also not suggesting taking a huge reach on a player, but not all GMs believe in strictly BPA and most teams BPA board is weighted by positional value and team need. For the Jets, both positional value and team need should be very low with QW. If he is really as good of a prospect as you think our phones should be ringing off the hook for him but like with Leo they won't.  Do you feel he is a 13-15 sack 40 pressures guy in the NFL?

Aaron Donald had more than 100 QB pressures this year, so yes I do.  And 13-15 sacks is doable.  As for the draft. we will see what happens next month.  Other than your aversion to taking Williams at three and trading down, what would you do with the #3 if we were stuck drafting in that spot?

[GreenReaper]

6 hours ago, KINGDIRK said:

Ill take the 17th overall from Gmen to swap 3 for 6.

In that scenario it’s not out of the question that Allen falls to 6. TB plays a 4-3 D. Maybe they take Sweat instead. 

I would like that move.  And why stop there?  I'd trade down again...and pick up a 2nd if the opportunity came.

Two 1sts...a 2nd...three 3rds? 

Draft competently...you should be able to get a couple of cheap starters and future starters plus depth.

[jack48]

11 hours ago, Ghost420 said:

Depends are you getting an Aaron Darnold type? If so he is worth a top pick but that's lofty expectations for any player. I'd rather an edge rusher than Dline tho 

In the age of the 3 step drop, inside pressure might be better

[varjet]

1 hour ago, jack48 said:

In the age of the 3 step drop, inside pressure might be better

I think in a 3-4 the inside pressure comes from the safeties and ilb-Adams and Mosley.

The Jets spent 27mm on a 3-4 DE and ILB. 

They tried to sign a 4-3 OLB, but supposedly that was to play 3-4 Edge. 

I just don’t see Quinnen making a difference in this Jets defense.  Allen maybe if athletic enough. 

The question we are not paying enough attention to is whether the Jets braintrust wants to deal with the Bosas?  I can see them not.  Joey does not exactly fit in this defense either-he ends up more of a DPR

Unless we think Josh Allen is Von Miller, we should trade down  and try and trade for Von Miller  

 

[More Cowbell]

9 hours ago, johnnysd said:

All your bold font styling does not make QW to the Jets a good move because it isn't. Are the Jets dumb enough to go DT again? Absolutely. Mac and his no boundaries BAP philosophy could enable that. But from many angles it would be a horrible pick. Look at Luck. You cannot repeat the mistake of taking "BAP, and as a result of that exposing Darnold to injury. This draft should be ALL about Darnold. OL C and WR and then more OL. If QW is really all that, we should be able to get significant compensation from a team to select him. Also, having watched him, I think he has LEO level bust written all over him. I just dont see him as an elite player at the next level.

First off,  Leo is not a bust. He may not be the player we have all hoped he would become but he is in no way a bust at his position. If anything, considering the horrible HC he had to play under, he has done ok. Second, the draft should be looked at as a way to improve the team. You wouldn't  want the next Donald on the Jets because we need OL help in a draft where nobody is talking about OL? You want a WR in a draft where it seems like there is only one player that looks like a possible game changing speed but doesn't  have good hands? Sorry, don't  agree. Take the guy you think is best. The Jets need help everywhere except QB, S, and TE. If the best player is a DT, you take him. 

[More Cowbell]

9 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I said Leo type bust in terms of being slightly better than a JAG.  I am also not suggesting taking a huge reach on a player, but not all GMs believe in strictly BPA and most teams BPA board is weighted by positional value and team need. For the Jets, both positional value and team need should be very low with QW. If he is really as good of a prospect as you think our phones should be ringing off the hook for him but like with Leo they won't.  Do you feel he is a 13-15 sack 40 pressures guy in the NFL?

Why would DT be a low priority? You just called Leo a bust in a different post. By that admission,  we should be all over William's. 

[Dcat]

13 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

The Vernon Gholston of wide receivers.

Physical specimen with stone hands. 

David Boston II

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

13 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

The Vernon Gholston of wide receivers.

Physical specimen with stone hands. 

Exactly..also, you want a WR who runs in a straight line and can’t do much else?  He’s your guy.  Hips not fluid.

Incredible story from Pat Kirwin on Sirius.  The Jets had just drafted Gholston, Kirwin drives out to the Jets first practices, within 10 seconds of seeing Gholston on the field he tells the guy who rode out with him...”He can’t play in the NFL”...not, “needs to work on this or that”...flat out “He can’t play in the NFL”.

Whoever gets conned into Metcalf will have a disaster of a 1st Rd...not just stone hands, can’t move his hips.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

13 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

Let's go back 4 yrs:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487627/article/scout-likens-leonard-williams-to-reggie-white

 

So wary of these guys who come out of Alabama too.  How many live up to the hype?

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

12 hours ago, Mark78 said:

Leo Williams...omg what a catch!!

How could you say that?

He was the “best player in the draft”.  Jets so lucky he fell.

Obviously he was not the “best player in the draft”, there was a reason he fell.

[greenwave81]

12 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Four years ago Quinnen Williams was 17 years old.  He was attending Wenonah High School in Birmingham Alabama, where I'm sure he was the best player on his football team.  He committed to Auburn University, before changing his mind and attending Alabama. There is no information about what he did after school, or during his summer vacation.  Sorry.  Guess that about covers it.

My point was, Leo Williams, the ‘best player in the draft’ was compared to Reggie White. 

Fir a DT to be worth the #3 pick they have to be Donald-good...otherwise they’re just another Leo Williams...average, expensive, and easily replaceable in FA with another hole plugger. 

Know what cannot be replaced easily in FA or by trade?  An even just above average LT. 

[PepPep]

I don't agree with this mock. It has the Broncos and Giants passing on their choice of a QB not named K.Murray. It has the Raiders taking Burns 4th overall, passing on QW, a QB, Sweat, GAry or a top O-lineman. Just does not make sense TO ME. 

Also, I am in the camp that believes that IF K.Murray goes #1 overall, the Niners will take QW and Bosa will fall to the Jets. That's JMHO.   

[PepPep]

15 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Bosa having a pSPARQ 10% lower than his brother's sucks. No vert for Allen sucks. No shuttle for Burns sucks. No workout for Ferrell sucks. It's getting hard to find clean prospects at 3.

Wut?

Whatever happened to basing how good football players are by watching football players play football?