Backfield Routes Darnold/Bell

[Jetlife33]

I know PFF grades aren’t the be all end all, but this is really really cool. I think it works right into what Gase wants to do as well. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

 

[thshadow]

What's a backfield route?  I'm guessing it means the receiver started in the backfield?

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

I remember the last time we sign the best player we ever had on offense, his name was Brett and he was a QB. WHen he got here he basically said our off playbook was crap and the plays sucked. So he made his own play that the ****ign coach fought back on!! Our coach was telling farve no his plays were good, anyway besides that - that in itself should be a thread to talk about - but anyway. 

I wonder if Bell is going to have any input on plays. I never played RB so I dont know how much more complicated it is that what I see in Madden but, could a scenario arise were Bell is getting creamed and he is like **** this give me the rock and I will run XXX play...

Is that crazy? I know we have Gase who has had some success with RB's and I think can design plays, but at the same time this is the guy who refused to let his premier back in Miami get more than 4-6 touches a game...

I just dont want the JEts to **** this up.

[MDL_JET]

Darnold is probably first because that was the majority of his routes! F'n Bates.

[Jetlife33]

12 minutes ago, thshadow said:

What's a backfield route?  I'm guessing it means the receiver started in the backfield?

 

If you read the fine print on the bottom of the picture I uploaded it tells you what routes it includes. 

[Warfish]

Lets be real tho, with the weak WR corp. we have (as of today), every defense we play will be playing to shut down Bell in the run and passing game.

Anderson and Enunwa simply aren't good enough, nor is Darnold's long passing game good enough (yet) to open up the short passing and running games.

The addition of Crowder will help, but if Enunwa has any time injured (a definite possibility given past few years) and the league continues to solve the limited puzzle of a one-skill guy in Anderson, Bell may in fact have more trouble than we'd prefer. 

Herndon blossoming could help alot here, pulling some short-intermediate pressure off Bell and opening up space in the flats.  Crowder too via the short/intermediate crossing route.  

But really, we need a legit #1 WR to really make this system work.  Anderson is fine as a #3 or maybe a #2 stretching the field from time to time.  And Enunwa has had flashes of legit #2 type play.  But a legit #1 opens up this whole thing, making Darnold, Bell, Crowder and Herndon 10x as good.

[HelenOfTroy]

No one could be worse than Bates play calling, he was awful, awful at USC, and I got some backlash on here for saying it.  Well, he has been just as bad in the NFL.  

Give the new guy a chance. 

[Bleedin Green]

12 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I remember the last time we sign the best player we ever had on offense, his name was Brett and he was a QB. WHen he got here he basically said our off playbook was crap and the plays sucked. So he made his own play that the ****ign coach fought back on!! Our coach was telling farve no his plays were good, anyway besides that - that in itself should be a thread to talk about - but anyway. 

I wonder if Bell is going to have any input on plays. I never played RB so I dont know how much more complicated it is that what I see in Madden but, could a scenario arise were Bell is getting creamed and he is like **** this give me the rock and I will run XXX play...

Is that crazy? I know we have Gase who has had some success with RB's and I think can design plays, but at the same time this is the guy who refused to let his premier back in Miami get more than 4-6 touches a game...

I just dont want the JEts to **** this up.

The Jets will listen to Darnold well before Bell, just as they should.  I think there can be some general input taken from any of the starters on a unit, but when it comes to offense, it's only the coordinator and QB that are thinking about what everyone needs to be doing.

[Bruce Harper]

15 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I remember the last time we sign the best player we ever had on offense, his name was Brett and he was a QB. WHen he got here he basically said our off playbook was crap and the plays sucked. So he made his own play that the ****ign coach fought back on!! Our coach was telling farve no his plays were good, anyway besides that - that in itself should be a thread to talk about - but anyway. 

I wonder if Bell is going to have any input on plays. I never played RB so I dont know how much more complicated it is that what I see in Madden but, could a scenario arise were Bell is getting creamed and he is like **** this give me the rock and I will run XXX play...

Is that crazy? I know we have Gase who has had some success with RB's and I think can design plays, but at the same time this is the guy who refused to let his premier back in Miami get more than 4-6 touches a game...

I just dont want the JEts to **** this up.

Dude may have crazy eyes but the one thing he is good at is tailoring his play calls to his personnel.  He even helped make Tebow win some games, including a playoff game.  I think he will work to their strengths and hopefully they can develop the same kind of rapport that Rapelisburger and Bell had in Pittsburgh.

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

The Jets will listen to Darnold well before Bell, just as they should.  I think there can be some general input taken from any of the starters on a unit, but when it comes to offense, it's only the coordinator and QB that are thinking about what everyone needs to be doing.

you don't think bell will have an input...er larger input? I was thinking that maybe Bell might have a big input and Darnold would eat it up..

[Patriot Killa]

Gase loves screens and utilizes receiving backs very well and it’s a big part of his play calling. Bell is perfect here for so many reasons.

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

No one could be worse than Bates play calling, he was awful, awful at USC, and I got some backlash on here for saying it.  Well, he has been just as bad in the NFL.  

Give the new guy a chance. 

haha I thought no one could be worse that Shotty or Morty or you name it. I hope you are right and I wish everyone listened to you before Bates started

1 minute ago, Bruce Harper said:

Dude may have crazy eyes but the one thing he is good at is tailoring his play calls to his personnel.  He even made Tebow win some games, including a playoff game.  I think he will work to their strengths and hopefully they can develop the same kind of rapport that Rapelisburger and Bell had in Pittsburgh.

I agree, but with Bell on the roster I have to think there is a possibility of over thinking it. That is what I am afraid of. They should be looking at what worked for the steeler and copy./modify it. Don't get all gimmicky like our past Off coord have done. Let Bell work, let sam work with simply throws. If our TE or WR's can get open we will be very well off.

[Bleedin Green]

Just now, BornJetsFan1983 said:

you don't think bell will have an input...er larger input? I was thinking that maybe Bell might have a big input and Darnold would eat it up..

Darnold may very well listen to Bell for certain elements, I just doubt his input will be Gase's primary concern when it comes to playcalls.  Besides, it's probably not something Bell will really have any particular expectations about being given, as it's a pretty good money bet that he didn't have much say in how the Steelers' did things.

I wouldn't be surprised if he made a point of asking for the ball more if he ends up being underutilized, but I just find it doubtful he'd be worrying about the specific playcalls, if for no other reason he'd likely have very little interest in what anyone but himself was doing on more than half of the plays (i.e., passing plays).

[Jet Nut]

22 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I remember the last time we sign the best player we ever had on offense, his name was Brett and he was a QB. WHen he got here he basically said our off playbook was crap and the plays sucked. So he made his own play that the ****ign coach fought back on!! Our coach was telling farve no his plays were good, anyway besides that - that in itself should be a thread to talk about - but anyway. 

I wonder if Bell is going to have any input on plays. I never played RB so I dont know how much more complicated it is that what I see in Madden but, could a scenario arise were Bell is getting creamed and he is like **** this give me the rock and I will run XXX play...

Is that crazy? I know we have Gase who has had some success with RB's and I think can design plays, but at the same time this is the guy who refused to let his premier back in Miami get more than 4-6 touches a game...

I just dont want the JEts to **** this up.

Theres a difference in a HOF , MVP QB wanting to run a lot of his favorite plays and run out of the shotgun formation and the story youre painting.  He also was the QB, the leader of the offense, not a RB, a huge difference.  

Which premier back in Miami did Gase hold to 4 touches a game?

[ScarletKnight89]

Le'veon Bell and Sam Darnold have a chance to be a real deadly combination that keeps other teams coaches up at night. I'm not a big fan of paying big money for RB's but Bell is a special talent and the elite backs in this league still clearly get paid. Bell can do so much for the offense even on plays where he doesn't even get the ball.

[Mike135]

Bell is going to be a ppr fantasy god.

[JustInFudge]

I think it should be required moving forward if you're going to quote PFF, you have to say; I know they're not the end all be all but...

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

I think it should be required moving forward if you're going to quote PFF, you have to say; I know they're not the end all be all but...

^^ elite at ‘backfield routes’

[BornJetsFan1983]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Theres a difference in a HOF , MVP QB wanting to run a lot of his favorite plays and run out of the shotgun formation and the story youre painting.  He also was the QB, the leader of the offense, not a RB, a huge difference.  

Which premier back in Miami did Gase hold to 4 touches a game?

OH yes I agree with you big diff, but he didn't just want to run his favorite plays he wanted to run plays that could actually score points. He didn't like any of the crap we have and they completely redid the playbook because favre knew better. 

BUT Bell is practically a HOF compared to the rest of the offense and I would guess that Darnold would agree and listen to him. 

Kenyan Drake was the back, would get like and I over exaggerated before, anywhere from 4-10 touches. Usually about 8. Should have been like 20 a game. In FF alot of people woudl be pisst because the guys was so talented and do so good with the touches he did get (big plays). So lets say Gase gives bell touches but then goes RBBC mode during the game vs just giving him a breather. I would be psst.

 

[JustInFudge]

19 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Which premier back in Miami did Gase hold to 4 touches a game?

Kenyan Drake was the best player on the Dolphins last year after Gase chased off all their other talented Football players.  He barely used him and favored a 73 year old Frank Gore over him.  It was a huge frustration for the entire team and the fanbase.  

 

[Jetlife33]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

Kenyan Drake was the best player on the Dolphins last year after Gase chased off all their other talented Football players.  He barely used him and favored a 73 year old Frank Gore over him.  It was a huge frustration for the entire team and the fanbase.  

 

Pretty sure drake and gore had almost identical amount of touches (including receptions) and a scary close YPC avg. 

[slats]

49 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lets be real tho, with the weak WR corp. we have (as of today), every defense we play will be playing to shut down Bell in the run and passing game.

Anderson and Enunwa simply aren't good enough, nor is Darnold's long passing game good enough (yet) to open up the short passing and running games.

The addition of Crowder will help, but if Enunwa has any time injured (a definite possibility given past few years) and the league continues to solve the limited puzzle of a one-skill guy in Anderson, Bell may in fact have more trouble than we'd prefer. 

Herndon blossoming could help alot here, pulling some short-intermediate pressure off Bell and opening up space in the flats.  Crowder too via the short/intermediate crossing route.  

But really, we need a legit #1 WR to really make this system work.  Anderson is fine as a #3 or maybe a #2 stretching the field from time to time.  And Enunwa has had flashes of legit #2 type play.  But a legit #1 opens up this whole thing, making Darnold, Bell, Crowder and Herndon 10x as good.

How many true #1 type WRs are there in the league? Certainly less than 32. Maybe half that. 

It really comes down to Gase and Darnold for the Jets. Gase has to design an offense where they spread the ball around, and then Sam has to get the ball into as many different players' hands as he can. Once he establishes that he can move the ball in a wide variety of ways defenses won't be able to focus completely on Bell. If he can hit Enunwa, Herndon, Crowder, Anderson for 5+ yards at a clip on a regular basis, and throw in a good chunk play here and there, the lack of a true #1 won't really come into play. It's not about having one other elite player on the field that the defense has to worry about, it's about making them defend the whole field on every down. 

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Jetlife33 said:

Pretty sure drake and gore had almost identical amount of touches (including receptions) and a scary close YPC avg. 

It was how they trended as the season started to wind down.  Drake's touches got limited, Gore's increased.  The carries ratio was totally favored to Gore.  However, they didnt use Gore in the passing game at all so Drake was getting more run from that perspective.

The bottom line was; he had a young homegrown talent that has game breaking capability and Gase was putting him on shelf for a 34 year old RB on a 1 year deal.

[#27TheDominator]

42 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think it should be required moving forward if you're going to quote PFF, you have to say; I know they're not the end all be all but...

I have a macro.

7 minutes ago, slats said:

How many true #1 type WRs are there in the league? Certainly less than 32. Maybe half that. 

It really comes down to Gase and Darnold for the Jets. Gase has to design an offense where they spread the ball around, and then Sam has to get the ball into as many different players' hands as he can. Once he establishes that he can move the ball in a wide variety of ways defenses won't be able to focus completely on Bell. If he can hit Enunwa, Herndon, Crowder, Anderson for 5+ yards at a clip on a regular basis, and throw in a good chunk play here and there, the lack of a true #1 won't really come into play. It's not about having one other elite player on the field that the defense has to worry about, it's about making them defend the whole field on every down. 

My understanding is that Gase favors yards after catch.  Enunwa was already providing that.  Hopefully, Gase will add some wrinkles to the repeated screen plays Bates called for him.  Bell and Crowder should really excel.

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

How many true #1 type WRs are there in the league? Certainly less than 32. Maybe half that. 

It really comes down to Gase and Darnold for the Jets. Gase has to design an offense where they spread the ball around, and then Sam has to get the ball into as many different players' hands as he can. Once he establishes that he can move the ball in a wide variety of ways defenses won't be able to focus completely on Bell. If he can hit Enunwa, Herndon, Crowder, Anderson for 5+ yards at a clip on a regular basis, and throw in a good chunk play here and there, the lack of a true #1 won't really come into play. It's not about having one other elite player on the field that the defense has to worry about, it's about making them defend the whole field on every down. 

This is like the 2nd or 3rd time I've seen people site the Steelers WR's for the reason Bell had success, which is totally false.  If anything, the weight favors Big Ben, play calling and the OL more than WR's.  Bell only played with Brown and JuJu for 1 season.  The year before, the Steelers leading WR's outside of Brown was Eli Rodgers and Sammie Coates.   The 2 years before was Heath Miller and a variety of Markus Wheaton and the occasional game of Martavis Bryant.  Sure, the Jets dont have Brown but Anderson, Enunwa, Crowder are better than everyone of those dudes.

Every team wants a true blue #1.  Unfortunately, there are only like 10 maybe in the league (quick news flash most of those teams suck and or didnt make the playoffs; Falcons, Giants, Bucs, Packers, Vikings just to name a few).  Fortunately, while the Jets dont have a #1, they have versatility in that of their main 3, they all do something a little different.  Anderson was clearly turning into more than a 1 trick pony who can take the top off in a split second and Crowder, Enunwa, Herndon all create their own match up problems in the middle of the field.  If used effectively, teams wont be able to key in on Bell.  And even if they do, his versatility will make them pay, which is what makes him so dynamic. 

Bell's effectiveness will come from Darnold, Gase and the OL...not the WR core. 

[Jet Nut]

58 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

OH yes I agree with you big diff, but he didn't just want to run his favorite plays he wanted to run plays that could actually score points. He didn't like any of the crap we have and they completely redid the playbook because favre knew better. 

BUT Bell is practically a HOF compared to the rest of the offense and I would guess that Darnold would agree and listen to him. 

Kenyan Drake was the back, would get like and I over exaggerated before, anywhere from 4-10 touches. Usually about 8. Should have been like 20 a game. In FF alot of people woudl be pisst because the guys was so talented and do so good with the touches he did get (big plays). So lets say Gase gives bell touches but then goes RBBC mode during the game vs just giving him a breather. I would be psst.

 

A QB is the leader of the offense, everything runs through him.  Favre done redo the entire playbook.  They eliminated the plays he doesn't want to run.  RBs are different. Mentally and by position

[Jet Nut]

58 minutes ago, JiF said:

Kenyan Drake was the best player on the Dolphins last year after Gase chased off all their other talented Football players.  He barely used him and favored a 73 year old Frank Gore over him.  It was a huge frustration for the entire team and the fanbase.  

 

Gore was effective.  Drake got a whole lot more than 4 touches a game.  I think Drake got more touches than Gore. 

I'm down in SFl and never heard anyone complain about their use.   Just a few Jet fans

 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Gore was effective.  Drake got a whole lot more than 4 touches a game.  No one down here complained about their use. 

Not sure what state you're living in but it was basically all the talk coming from Miami because it also coincided with them losing grips on the season.  They started getting blown out and Drake was barely touching the ball.  This was all over the media down there...so not sure where you've been. 

There were a bunch of articles and press conferences questioning the decision.   Gase basically said, he started using Gore more because he did a good job of making sure there werent negative plays.  And it was a huge point of contention because it was barely true but on the flip side, Drake had drastically more explosive plays.  This got very public and Gase was confronted often about it, to which, he'd get very offended and Drake would basically said, ask Gase why.  It was a pretty big deal dude and led to a lot of the reasons the team hated Gase. 

A simple google and you'll find tons of articles about it. 

 

[Jet Nut]

39 minutes ago, JiF said:

Not sure what state you're living in but it was basically all the talk coming from Miami because it also coincided with them losing grips on the season.  They started getting blown out and Drake was barely touching the ball.  This was all over the media down there...so not sure where you've been. 

There were a bunch of articles and press conferences questioning the decision.   Gase basically said, he started using Gore more because he did a good job of making sure there werent negative plays.  And it was a huge point of contention because it was barely true but on the flip side, Drake had drastically more explosive plays.  This got very public and Gase was confronted often about it, to which, he'd get very offended and Drake would basically said, ask Gase why.  It was a pretty big deal dude and led to a lot of the reasons the team hated Gase. 

A simple google and you'll find tons of articles about it. 

 

I live is south florida, know more than a few Fin season ticket holders.  

You can say all you want that Drake hardly touched the ball but he had more touches that Gore.  They averaged just about the same yds per carry and yards per reception.  Both played well too.  They lost grips with the season because they werent anywhere near as talented as the leagues most overly optimistic fanbase thought and really because Osweiler was the leagues least productive QB.  Once Tannehill went down they were done

Yes, Drake whined that he wasnt getting enough touches.  When your numbers arent better than the guy in front of you, the vet, shut up.  

BTW, the team didnt hate Gase, a couple of players, like Landry, who he didnt resign did.  

[Jets0712]

I think Sam needs to work on perfecting the play action. Ala Pennington would open up EVERYTHING


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Lets be real tho, with the weak WR corp. we have (as of today), every defense we play will be playing to shut down Bell in the run and passing game.

Anderson and Enunwa simply aren't good enough, nor is Darnold's long passing game good enough (yet) to open up the short passing and running games.

The addition of Crowder will help, but if Enunwa has any time injured (a definite possibility given past few years) and the league continues to solve the limited puzzle of a one-skill guy in Anderson, Bell may in fact have more trouble than we'd prefer. 

Herndon blossoming could help alot here, pulling some short-intermediate pressure off Bell and opening up space in the flats.  Crowder too via the short/intermediate crossing route.  

But really, we need a legit #1 WR to really make this system work.  Anderson is fine as a #3 or maybe a #2 stretching the field from time to time.  And Enunwa has had flashes of legit #2 type play.  But a legit #1 opens up this whole thing, making Darnold, Bell, Crowder and Herndon 10x as good.

We need a nfl caliber OL also. Not just 1 that has only 1 player who would be starting on most teams. Will take some time to right the ship after 10 straight years of O neglect 

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I live is south florida, know more than a few Fin season ticket holders.  

You can say all you want that Drake hardly touched the ball but he had more touches that Gore.  They averaged just about the same yds per carry and yards per reception.  Both played well too

Yes, Drake whined that he wasnt getting enough touches.  When your numbers arent better than the guy in front of you, the vet, shut up.  

BTW, the team didnt hate Gase, a couple of players, like Landry, who he didnt resign did.  

Again, it was the trend as the season went on.  Early in the season, they were using Drake (and winning).  Then suddenly, Gase started turning to Gore and even Kalen Ballage over Drake...yet, they were getting blown out and the season was slipping away.

Drake was basically relegated to the passing game and the numbers didnt justify it.  Gore wasnt significantly out performing Drake.  Gase said Gore was preventing negative plays when it was like 12 vs. 16 yet, Drake had much more explosive plays like 15 vs. 5.  It wasnt just Drake whining, if you live in South Florida, you should know this.  It got to be a thing, where Drake was constantly questioned about it and Gase kept getting frustrated every time the media would ask why Drake wasnt involved after looking like he was going to have a breakout season.  

The team pretty much hated him for all the reasons we've discussed on this board.  He alienated players, he'd constantly go away from what was working ie: Drake situation, he had different standards for different players, he gravitated too much to players he had familiarity with, he was way to emotional and would shut down when things werent working or going his way.  He was fired for a reason.

This isnt something I just made up out of thin air.  Google it.   All of this is well documented.  There are articles all over the place about both how he lost the team and how he treated the Drake situation.  

 

[greenwichjetfan]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Again, it was the trend as the season went on.  Early in the season, they were using Drake (and winning).  Then suddenly, Gase started turning to Gore and even Kalen Ballage over Drake...yet, they were getting blown out and the season was slipping away.

Drake was basically relegated to the passing game and the numbers didnt justify it.  Gore wasnt significantly out performing Drake.  Gase said Gore was preventing negative plays when it was like 12 vs. 16 yet, Drake had much more explosive plays like 15 vs. 5.  It wasnt just Drake whining, if you live in South Florida, you should know this.  It got to be a thing, where Drake was constantly questioned about it and Gase kept getting frustrated every time the media would ask why Drake wasnt involved after looking like he was going to have a breakout season.  

The team pretty much hated him for all the reasons we've discussed on this board.  He alienated players, he'd constantly go away from what was working ie: Drake situation, he had different standards for different players, he gravitated too much to players he had familiarity with, he was way to emotional and would shut down when things werent working or going his way.  He was fired for a reason.

This isnt something I just made up out of thin air.  Google it.   All of this is well documented.  There are articles all over the place about both how he lost the team and how he treated the Drake situation.  

 

Having drafted Drake relatively high in 1 league, and picking up Gore in a later round in another league, I was keenly in-tune with the dolphins running game last year. The above is exactly how I remember it - especially because I was pissed about Drake.

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Gore was effective.  Drake got a whole lot more than 4 touches a game.  I think Drake got more touches than Gore. 

I'm down in SFl and never heard anyone complain about their use.   Just a few Jet fans

 

last year drake 173/gore 168

 

file in doesnt know wtf they are talking about