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Human trafficker Bob Kraft to skate in most entitled rich guy Patriots way ever


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7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You also don't hear about trafficking poor immigrants because it isn't a regularly big story. Only reason even this one made the news is because of Kraft's fame, legality aside. There's at least some evidence that legality encourages/induces trafficking, even more so when the country's got plenty of people with money (USA has little shortage of that). I get the idea of a woman choosing to do it for money, and that's fine by me, but legalizing has unintended consequences I'm sure you wouldn't be in favor of increasing. Guys beating & robbing people for hooker money? Probably not too often, but guys beat up trafficked hookers and rob them of their freedom happens plenty. 

All that aside, at least Kraft got humiliated this way. But as another noted, none of these guys busted there were going to do real time whether they were well connected like Kraft or not. If he was directly involved in the trafficking, and/or kept one as a pet slave at home, then let him die in jail. To keep him locked up they'd probably have to prove beyond a doubt that he was specifically requesting trafficked girls the way other scumbags specifically seek out kiddie porn (or in-person children outright), and even then it'd have to be more than his first conviction to keep him locked up. While Kraft isn't stupid enough to think everyone there was surely there of their free will, I guess it's also possible he just put it out of his mind and didn't think about it after getting the name of the place from someone. 

The sunlight=disinfectant line comes to mind, and humiliating Kraft surely provides some sunlight. Enough to make a real dent in the industry that keeps these girls in servitude against their will? Probably not, unfortunately, but it's a start. We'll see if the league does anything, though I'm guessing not in the absence of relentless public/media pressure that I don't expect to see.

I suppose my true position is that a woman should be allowed to do it if she wants to.  That is more in line with my thinking.  Having the government "allow" it is off putting.  And Kraft was embarassed and humiliated, so there is that.  And I do not expect the league to do anything.

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18 hours ago, 20andOut said:

Human trafficker Bob Kraft to skate in most entitled rich guy Patriots way eve

Human Trafficker? not exactly. I hate Kraft and Patriots as much as anybody but really?

Enabler. If there was no demand there’d be no supply. 

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20 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

 unless they find evidence that Kraft was in on or knew about any human trafficking going on, he's just a man near 80 whose wife died of cancer a few years ago.

 

joking aside Bob Kraft didn't put these women in a boat and force them to come to America.

but he is the demand side of human trafficking. 

let's make this clear: Sex work in and of itself is not amoral. Soul crushing and dangerous, sure. But there are many soul crushing dangerous jobs in this world, and prostitution is the world's oldest. 

The whole reason they were caught was location: it was in a strip mall, where kids have their pizza birthday parties. A health inspector wandered over, was like WTF is going on here, and they had women who couldn't speak English, living on cots in the back of the spa.

this is not a civil liberties discussion.  these women were brought here under false pretenses and are basically kidnapped. 

It's like taking a job to join the Navy and then when you get there finding out your job is to jerk off the entire Navy, every day. 

back to Bob Kraft, there's a reason why he prefers 59$ half hours

it's not just cause he's a sexy old bachelor having a fun and wild time, or because he's a frugal Warren Buffet style consumer looking for the best bargains.  

He likes having a pro who is kidnapped. it's the look of desperation fear and powerlessness in their eyes that keeps him coming back. he's a predator and not in the cool Ice T 1980's movie way. 

 

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12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

joking aside Bob Kraft didn't put these women in a boat and force them to come to America.

but he is the demand side of human trafficking. 

let's make this clear: Sex work in and of itself is not amoral. Soul crushing and dangerous, sure. But there are many soul crushing dangerous jobs in this world, and prostitution is the world's oldest. 

The whole reason they were caught was location: it was in a strip mall, where kids have their pizza birthday parties. A health inspector wandered over, was like WTF is going on here, and they had women who couldn't speak English, living on cots in the back of the spa.

this is not a civil liberties discussion.  these women were brought here under false pretenses and are basically kidnapped. 

It's like taking a job to join the Navy and then when you get there finding out your job is to jerk off the entire Navy, every day. 

back to Bob Kraft, there's a reason why he prefers 59$ half hours

it's not just cause he's a sexy old bachelor having a fun and wild time, or because he's a frugal Warren Buffet style consumer looking for the best bargains.  

He likes having a pro who is kidnapped. it's the look of desperation fear and powerlessness in their eyes that keeps him coming back. he's a predator and not in the cool Ice T 1980's movie way. 

 

Holy crap, dark.

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23 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

It's like taking a job to join the Navy and then when you get there finding out your job is to jerk off the entire Navy, every day. 

 

 

Oh my god that would be a dream come true! Do you have a number i could call? Asking for Crusher and myself were into it

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15 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

I don't know Florida criminal procedure to speak specifically to the mechanism involved in this agreement but in at least some states it is possible to enter an admission of guilt and have judgment suspended upon completion of further conditions. I would be surprised if Florida does not allow such an agreement.

He's definitely getting a better deal because he has the money to effectively challenge prosecution but the prosecutor is probably far more interested in gaining uncontroverted admissions about the trafficking ring than fight out all of the cases on the johns. The johns are not going to testify in their own trials which leaves the prosecutors to pursue all the johns and the trafficking organization on audioless video and the testimony of the trafficked women. Not great evidence.

This is exactly right, the vast majority of jurisdictions have some sort of pre-trial diversion program.  Some courts are more strict as to the level of crimes that will qualify for pre-trial diversion, others less.

I've seen courts here in Indiana give people pre-trial diversion for DUIs.

Essentially, he'll sign an form that includes his admission of guilt.  If he fails to follow through on the conditions he agreed to (fines, community service, etc.)  They will reopen the criminal case and use the admission against him to secure a quick conviction.

If he completes all of the conditions they will dismiss the case and he won't have a criminal record.

My problem with giving him and the others Pre-Trial Diversion is that they made such a big stink about this when the charges were announced and promised to prosecute to the full extent of the law.

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17 minutes ago, peebag said:

Are you pulling your own horn?

No, I'm tooting it. I crave internet validation from strangers.

In addition to proving that I'm smarter than the rest of you plebeians, I was pointing out that the NFL is so vast in its power & ability to corrupt that we all should have known from the start that nothing was going to happen to the pats*.

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2 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

This is exactly right, the vast majority of jurisdictions have some sort of pre-trial diversion program.  Some courts are more strict as to the level of crimes that will qualify for pre-trial diversion, others less.

I've seen courts here in Indiana give people pre-trial diversion for DUIs.

Essentially, he'll sign an form that includes his admission of guilt.  If he fails to follow through on the conditions he agreed to (fines, community service, etc.)  They will reopen the criminal case and use the admission against him to secure a quick conviction.

If he completes all of the conditions they will dismiss the case and he won't have a criminal record.

My problem with giving him and the others Pre-Trial Diversion is that they made such a big stink about this when the charges were announced and promised to prosecute to the full extent of the law.

Go back to the original thread about this story.

It was amazing to me how many people on this board bought into the press conference from the local law enforcement people down there.

The board was full of hand wringing over the horrors of sex trafficking. Some here were even convinced that Kraft and other "big names" were somehow involved in this ring of international sex trafficking. The horror stories of the "sex slaves" forced to service "hundreds of customers a week", were followed by the indignation at people who questioned the validity of the case, followed by needless scoldings again and again explaining the horrors of sex traffickking around the world..

Look at my posts and how they were received.

I told people how the new term for running a house of "ill repute" has been labeled sex trafficking by law enforcement for quite a while.

I told people that Kraft and the others implicated would never have to go to court, much less trial. They were simply the "johns".

I told people there would be no case for sex trafficking, and there were no "sex slaves" there. Sometimes people haven't enough street or common sense to read between the lines in a story like this. 99% of the time the trafficker is simply the madam, and the girls are simply prostitutes. It must be a hard concept to follow for most here.

So where are we now? The feds have "distanced" themselves from this case. Nobody has been charged for sex trafficking. Every single person will walk, Kraft included. Local police and public officials got their "5 minutes of fame" before a national audience, but should get much more local scrutiny for the expense involved in their bungling of what was nothing more then a raid of a rub and tug parlor in one of the most affluent areas in the country. If I were a taxpayer, I'd want answers why it cost so much time and money to simply close this place down.

Then, if I were Kraft and any of the others arrested or named, I would make it known that the County and/or town would never receive another dime in charitable donations from me. I would however spend heavily to promote the campaign of anyone running against the local officials involved in this "case."

And now we're finally left with those few who are convinced the NFL and Roger Goodell have stepped in to weild their mighty sword and save Kraft from prosecution. Because he owns the Patriots, and the NFL always looks out for the Patriots. Oh. OK.

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I misread the headline on today's Profootballtalk piece as "Kraft will not accept prostitution offer": 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/20/kraft-will-not-accept-prosecutions-offer/

That made no sense to me - the old pervert would never turn down a quick rubdown from a pro. Allegedly.

Hope it goes to court, and that the video evidence is suitably graphic and horrifying.

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5 hours ago, bitonti said:

back to Bob Kraft, there's a reason why he prefers 59$ half hours

it's not just cause he's a sexy old bachelor having a fun and wild time, or because he's a frugal Warren Buffet style consumer looking for the best bargains.  

He likes having a pro who is kidnapped. it's the look of desperation fear and powerlessness in their eyes that keeps him coming back. he's a predator and not in the cool Ice T 1980's movie way. 

 

OR:

Maybe in his lifetime of high achievement, being at the heads of various corporations and charitable organizations, giving speeches and press releases and always having to appear and act his best, in his late widowerhood Kraft gets a kick out of anonymously showing up at a sleazy place  in the strip mall, getting done what needs to be done and slipping out again just as anonymously.

 

At the age of 78, maybe this is how he gets a thrill now.  Don't criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

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5 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Go back to the original thread about this story.

It was amazing to me how many people on this board bought into the press conference from the local law enforcement people down there.

The board was full of hand wringing over the horrors of sex trafficking. Some here were even convinced that Kraft and other "big names" were somehow involved in this ring of international sex trafficking. The horror stories of the "sex slaves" forced to service "hundreds of customers a week", were followed by the indignation at people who questioned the validity of the case, followed by needless scoldings again and again explaining the horrors of sex traffickking around the world..

Look at my posts and how they were received.

I told people how the new term for running a house of "ill repute" has been labeled sex trafficking by law enforcement for quite a while.

I told people that Kraft and the others implicated would never have to go to court, much less trial. They were simply the "johns".

I told people there would be no case for sex trafficking, and there were no "sex slaves" there. Sometimes people haven't enough street or common sense to read between the lines in a story like this. 99% of the time the trafficker is simply the madam, and the girls are simply prostitutes. It must be a hard concept to follow for most here.

So where are we now? The feds have "distanced" themselves from this case. Nobody has been charged for sex trafficking. Every single person will walk, Kraft included. Local police and public officials got their "5 minutes of fame" before a national audience, but should get much more local scrutiny for the expense involved in their bungling of what was nothing more then a raid of a rub and tug parlor in one of the most affluent areas in the country. If I were a taxpayer, I'd want answers why it cost so much time and money to simply close this place down.

Then, if I were Kraft and any of the others arrested or named, I would make it known that the County and/or town would never receive another dime in charitable donations from me. I would however spend heavily to promote the campaign of anyone running against the local officials involved in this "case."

And now we're finally left with those few who are convinced the NFL and Roger Goodell have stepped in to weild their mighty sword and save Kraft from prosecution. Because he owns the Patriots, and the NFL always looks out for the Patriots. Oh. OK.

You might be correct but there could be another explanation.  There were rumors (I think from Shefter) that there were bigger names also involved.  Who knows if some of those names were in politics and those people had the whole thing quashed.  I was one of the people saying this could be a huge story (possibly even related to Jeffrey Epstein) but that could also lead to powerful/connected people shutting it down.  We definitely haven't heard of any other big names and the story has kind of gone away (though we have seen a pic of Trump with the owner of the rub and tug). 

It's a tough one and I'm not completely sold yet on either side but I do lean to the "this is a much bigger story" side of things.  The fact that multiple billionaires went there doesn't add up to me.  Based on him dating Ricki Lander (whatever her name was), we know he has good taste.  These women were very far from that caliber.

I guess we'll have to wait to see how this story develops (assuming we get any further info about it).

 

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On 3/19/2019 at 2:19 PM, kelticwizard said:

They dropped the charges for all the other nobodies who got caught with him.  Hate to spoil the chance to dump on the Patriots, but as far as I am concerned, unless they find evidence that Kraft was in on or knew about any human trafficking going on, he's just a man near 80 whose wife died of cancer a few years ago.

Huh? So prostitution is OK? Please, just because the women may or may not have been there against their will, doesn't mean that prostitution is OK. It makes it less of a crime, but a crime just the same.

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1 minute ago, Greensleeves said:

Huh? So prostitution is OK? Please, just because the women may or may not have been there against their will, doesn't mean that prostitution is OK. It makes it less of a crime, but a crime just the same.

What about "my body my choice"?

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48 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You might be correct but there could be another explanation.  There were rumors (I think from Shefter) that there were bigger names also involved.  Who knows if some of those names were in politics and those people had the whole thing quashed.  I was one of the people saying this could be a huge story (possibly even related to Jeffrey Epstein) but that could also lead to powerful/connected people shutting it down.  We definitely haven't heard of any other big names and the story has kind of gone away (though we have seen a pic of Trump with the owner of the rub and tug). 

It's a tough one and I'm not completely sold yet on either side but I do lean to the "this is a much bigger story" side of things.  The fact that multiple billionaires went there doesn't add up to me.  Based on him dating Ricki Lander (whatever her name was), we know he has good taste.  These women were very far from that caliber.

I guess we'll have to wait to see how this story develops (assuming we get any further info about it).

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but just so you know, Shefter caught a lot of heat for that statement, and later walked it back on air. The multiple billionaires thing is "police press conference" talk, but in this case very plausible because we're talking a certain part of Florida, which I'll tell you again, is uber wealthy. Millionaires are a dime a dozen in that town. Think "$5 mil+ third home wealth." You could go into a restaurant on a Thursday night and be the only non millionaire in the place besides the wait staff.

As far as Kraft and that young woman? That Lander girl is, to be kind, a guilty pleasure. She had a child with someone else during their relationship, and they're still "together." That aside, is it really that hard to fathom even a younger man, with an adoring beautiful wife, stopping for a little side action? There's an old saying about men who don't cheat. "They either can't afford it, or they're afraid they'll get caught."

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12 hours ago, devland said:

I saw a week or two ago that ICE and the FBI had dropped out of this case because they found no evidence of human trafficking.  I'm pretty sure that had  more effect on this deal being offered than anything else.

Gee I wonder why those investigations suddenly stopped?

 

36B90802-78FB-4020-98C4-BD28E0E46B65.jpeg

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Robert Kraft fighting to keep alleged spa tapes from leaking to public

March 20, 2019 | 8:56pm | Updated 

 
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Robert Kraft
Robert KraftGetty Images

Patriots owner Robert Kraft has filed a motion to make sure the lurid police videos of his visits to a Florida rub-and-tug spa do not get leaked to the public.

Lawyers for the billionaire — as well as attorneys for 14 of the 24 other men charged with soliciting prostitution at the Orchids of Asia Spa in Jupiter — have filed jointly for a protective order to prevent law enforcement and prosecutors from releasing any evidence gathered in the investigation — most notably the police surveillance videos.

Affidavits in the case have revealed cops placed cameras in the spa the day before 77-year-old Kraft’s first visit in January, and describe how the footage shows two women, one aged 45 and another aged 58, “manipulating Kraft’s [genitals].” On the second visit, the younger woman is seen putting “her head down by his [genitals]” the documents state.

In the filing, the lawyers said the evidence had not been produced to the defense teams, and so should remain confidential. They argue their clients “dispute the position of the prosecutors that there may be a ‘victim’ of any offense at issue in these cases,” indicating they do not believe human nor sex trafficking took place at the massage parlor, as investigators have claimed.

The investigators have since struggled to show proof that the operation at Orchids of Asia relied on women who were victims of human or sex trafficking. No one has been charged with human trafficking, and both women with whom Kraft was allegedly seen on camera — the 45-year-old spa manager Lei Wang and 58-year-old spa employee Shen Mingbi — are licensed masseuses and Florida residents.

On Tuesday, the Palm Beach County State Attorney’s office offered Kraft and the 24 other men accused of soliciting prostitution at the spa the chance to have their charges dropped if they admit they would have been found guilty at trial.

Kraft has denied any illegal activity, and sources tell Page Six there’s “absolutely no way he’d take the plea deal.”

His reps didn’t respond.

 
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13 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

joking aside Bob Kraft didn't put these women in a boat and force them to come to America.

but he is the demand side of human trafficking. 

let's make this clear: Sex work in and of itself is not amoral. Soul crushing and dangerous, sure. But there are many soul crushing dangerous jobs in this world, and prostitution is the world's oldest. 

The whole reason they were caught was location: it was in a strip mall, where kids have their pizza birthday parties. A health inspector wandered over, was like WTF is going on here, and they had women who couldn't speak English, living on cots in the back of the spa.

this is not a civil liberties discussion.  these women were brought here under false pretenses and are basically kidnapped. 

It's like taking a job to join the Navy and then when you get there finding out your job is to jerk off the entire Navy, every day. 

back to Bob Kraft, there's a reason why he prefers 59$ half hours

it's not just cause he's a sexy old bachelor having a fun and wild time, or because he's a frugal Warren Buffet style consumer looking for the best bargains.  

He likes having a pro who is kidnapped. it's the look of desperation fear and powerlessness in their eyes that keeps him coming back. he's a predator and not in the cool Ice T 1980's movie way.  

 

For what it's worth I'm pretty sure IceT was not in any predator movie. Are you thinking of Bill Duke or Carl Weathers ?

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58 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Robert Kraft fighting to keep alleged spa tapes from leaking to public

March 20, 2019 | 8:56pm | Updated 

 
Enlarge Image
 
Robert KraftGetty Images

Patriots owner Robert Kraft has filed a motion to make sure the lurid police videos of his visits to a Florida rub-and-tug spa do not get leaked to the public.

Lawyers for the billionaire — as well as attorneys for 14 of the 24 other men charged with soliciting prostitution at the Orchids of Asia Spa in Jupiter — have filed jointly for a protective order to prevent law enforcement and prosecutors from releasing any evidence gathered in the investigation — most notably the police surveillance videos.

Affidavits in the case have revealed cops placed cameras in the spa the day before 77-year-old Kraft’s first visit in January, and describe how the footage shows two women, one aged 45 and another aged 58, “manipulating Kraft’s [genitals].” On the second visit, the younger woman is seen putting “her head down by his [genitals]” the documents state.

In the filing, the lawyers said the evidence had not been produced to the defense teams, and so should remain confidential. They argue their clients “dispute the position of the prosecutors that there may be a ‘victim’ of any offense at issue in these cases,” indicating they do not believe human nor sex trafficking took place at the massage parlor, as investigators have claimed.

The investigators have since struggled to show proof that the operation at Orchids of Asia relied on women who were victims of human or sex trafficking. No one has been charged with human trafficking, and both women with whom Kraft was allegedly seen on camera — the 45-year-old spa manager Lei Wang and 58-year-old spa employee Shen Mingbi — are licensed masseuses and Florida residents.

On Tuesday, the Palm Beach County State Attorney’s office offered Kraft and the 24 other men accused of soliciting prostitution at the spa the chance to have their charges dropped if they admit they would have been found guilty at trial.

Kraft has denied any illegal activity, and sources tell Page Six there’s “absolutely no way he’d take the plea deal.”

His reps didn’t respond.

 
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Here's where his $$ comes into play. If he took the plea deal he's admitting guilt basically and the NFL can then nail him.

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13 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

joking aside Bob Kraft didn't put these women in a boat and force them to come to America.

but he is the demand side of human trafficking. 

let's make this clear: Sex work in and of itself is not amoral. Soul crushing and dangerous, sure. But there are many soul crushing dangerous jobs in this world, and prostitution is the world's oldest. 

The whole reason they were caught was location: it was in a strip mall, where kids have their pizza birthday parties. A health inspector wandered over, was like WTF is going on here, and they had women who couldn't speak English, living on cots in the back of the spa.

this is not a civil liberties discussion.  these women were brought here under false pretenses and are basically kidnapped. 

It's like taking a job to join the Navy and then when you get there finding out your job is to jerk off the entire Navy, every day. 

back to Bob Kraft, there's a reason why he prefers 59$ half hours

it's not just cause he's a sexy old bachelor having a fun and wild time, or because he's a frugal Warren Buffet style consumer looking for the best bargains.  

He likes having a pro who is kidnapped. it's the look of desperation fear and powerlessness in their eyes that keeps him coming back. he's a predator and not in the cool Ice T 1980's movie way. 

 

HOLY sh*t BITONTI CAN’T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN APOLLO CREED AND ICE-T

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