We need to change this teams free agent/drafting philosophy

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I feel like Chris Johnson focused too much on Bowles performance alone and gave Macc way too much credit for trading up from the 6th pick to the 3rd when the Giants could have easily drafted Sam Darnold and left Macc with egg on his face, and I even mentioned how stupid the trade up was because it didnt guarantee him his guy given that I heard that it was between Darnold and Mayfield and we all knew the possibility of the Giants taking a QB. The Giants own stupidity saved Macc from his own incompetence. 

 

Apparently Dave Gettelman wasnt aware of that possibility.

[Villain The Foe]

12 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

The idea that some of you guys thought every position was gonna be fixed in one free agency is kinda funny .  I personally think there’s a good core in place . Need a strong draft this year and probably one more offseason before we can contend seriously. But things are trending up imo

Macc has been the GM since 2015, so it was never about 1 free agency. It's clear that many of us thought that this team would be on the right path by now.

It shouldnt take a GM 5 seasons to simply have a "good core in place". 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

He’s a Buffon because he gave $85 million dollars to an ILBer when he just drafted one in the first round a couple years ago.  He paid a RB $50 million because he’s never bothered to draft one before the 6th round.  He’s a Buffon because he can’t even draft a decent slot receiver, the easiest receiver position to find.  He’s a Buffon because he can’t close a screen door and gets used like a cheap whore in negotiations.   His track record speaks for itself.  It’s abysmal.   But go ahead and fellate him because he grossly overpaid for a good ILBer and bought a RB that no other team was willing to pay for.  

None of this has to do with past drafting history or who won the Revolutionary war.  This is about here and now.  In the here and now he acquired the best inside linebacker that was available, maybe the best one in the NFL. He is not "good".  He is a perennial Pro Bowler,

He also acquired the best running back available, also one of the best in the NFL. Who, by the way, is a good, and more productive than any wide receiver in free agency.

He also acquired a potent slot receiver and punt returner for market value.  At the time of the signing I'm certain they already knew that Andre Roberts was not returning.  He was going to have to be replaced, as a punt returner.  Crowder killed two birds with one stone.  Pretty smart.

The statement that no one was going to sign LeVeon Bell is pure bullsh*t.  Move on from the histrionics. Should they have made no moves?  Acknowledging the positives does not change the negatives, and is not "fellating" anyone.

I am still waiting for the list of players that you suggest that they should have spent the money on...….

[dbatesman]

27 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

He wasnt with the Cowboys last year

And even then, none of those picks were top ten. We're talking top ten here

 

It applies to basically any of the years he was there. I have no idea what “we’re talking top ten here” means, but Tyron Smith went 9th overall.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Apparently Dave Gettelman wasnt aware of that possibility.

While this statement is true, in just 1 complete season he's already looking stupider than Mike Maccagnan, which takes effort to do. 

[Scoop24]

7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Macc has been the GM since 2015, so it was never about 1 free agency. It's clear that many of us thought that this team would be on the right path by now.

It shouldnt take a GM 5 seasons to simply have a "good core in place". 

 

I mean you  can sell it like that . But year 1 and 2 where not rebuilds . This is really the 3rd year of that . I’m not even a Macc apologist I think he done  bad job up to this point . . I’m just being realistic in terms of roster construction and the current path we are on .  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

MacCagnan is not going to change he has stated publicly he does not view OL as top end pick material.

Would love to see this comment linked.  I've never seen it and given where we've picked cant believe anyone would announce this before or after a draft.  Have a feeling its pure nonsense someone wrote

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

You didn't see the game where the ball was being hiked 10 feet in the air and instead of throwing TD Darnold was trying to make OBJ catches?

I was at that game, in Miami.  We were playing a center who was trying to play, block and snap with a broken hand/thumb.  Thats on the HC who should have gotten him the hell out of there not on the OL

[Larz]

So what did the committee decide is the best way for fans to change the teams philosophy? 

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

None of this has to do with past drafting history or who won the Revolutionary war.  This is about here and now.  In the here and now he acquired the best inside linebacker that was available, maybe the best one in the NFL. He is not "good".  He is a perennial Pro Bowler,

He also acquired the best running back available, also one of the best in the NFL. Who, by the way, is a good, and more productive than any wide receiver in free agency.

He also acquired a potent slot receiver and punt returner for market value.  At the time of the signing I'm certain they already knew that Andre Roberts was not returning.  He was going to have to be replaced, as a punt returner.  Crowder killed two birds with one stone.  Pretty smart.

The statement that no one was going to sign LeVeon Bell is pure bullsh*t.  Move on from the histrionics. Should they have made no moves?  Acknowledging the positives does not change the negatives, and is not "fellating" anyone.

I am still waiting for the list of players that you suggest that they should have spent the money on...….

So his past drafting history has nothing to do with this??   Are you kidding me?  It’s the whole reason that this team is where it is in his 5th year of service with this team.  Wake the f**k up man.  He can’t draft the easiest positions to fill so he’s forced to buy them at way above market value.  Maccagnan isn’t in his 2nd year, he’s been here for a while.   

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Coaching.  Play calling.

I will say this though, this franchise does know what they have in Sam, they love him.  

His injury was real, but he was held out longer than he wanted to, in order to protect him - not because he was injury prone or soft, they Knew his mobility was critical for him to survive the season.  They wanted no doubt he was 100% healed, his mobility and playmaking on the run compensated for a poor offensive line.  

Sam was biting the bit after two weeks.  The franchise did the right thing.

Agree, they know what they have and theyre dead sure hes the real deal.  Dont have any questions that hes their FQB and can win, a lot, in this league.

I agree his injury was real but dont believe he needed to miss the amount of time he missed.  Think a whole lot of it was to let him sit, watch, take it in and apply it to his game.  Think it went a long way toward the game slowing down for him.  Hes said when he reinjured the foot in the Bills game it was exactly the same as when he originally hurt his foot but was going back in.  

The Jets though did the right thing, no matter why and how.  Sitting helped him, got him to stop pressing and trying to do too much.  To just have fun and play football

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A WR2 like Tyrell Williams has more of an impact on the game than a slot WR.

A solid C in free agency would have prevented that from being a need we HAD to address in the draft. 

A pass rusher would have given us flexibility on what to do at 3.  If we can't trade down, we kind of HAVE to take a pass rusher now.

The three players I presented make a million times more sense than an ILB, RB, and slot receiver.  Granted, I like all three players.  And Bell almost operates like a WR in today's NFL.  But you cannot possibly argue that filling NEEDS with impact players, and at impact positions, would be worse than what we ended up with. 

Sure, the cost of the pass rusher would have been extensive, and Bell ended up getting less than he thought he would.  But that's the price you may for a young pass rusher on the FA market, and wouldn't have made it any less of a prudent decision. 

All good points, but remember this.  Morse has health concerns, and the Bills just made him the highest paid center in the league.  His own team made no attempt to re-sign him.  We don't know what the inside story was when it came to the Jets not signing him.  We do know that the Jets wanted to sign a center, {Paradis} and for whatever reason it did not work out.

The Jets attempted to procure a pass rusher, Anthony Barr, and had an agreement with him.  That's not on the Jets.  It's on Barr.  Dee Ford would have cost more than what I think would have been worth it, and evidently the Jets agree.

The problem I have with your reasoning is the LeVeon Bell is by far a more impactful player than all three of the players you suggested.  He is the most impactful player that was available in Free Agency.  OF ALL PLAYERS.  He is worth more to this team, and offense, than any non quarterback in the league.  I would include that to mean Khalil Mack.  That is saying a lot.

Even with a trade down a quality pass rushing end or linebacker can still be had within the first 20 picks this year.  One that would offer much the same impact and results as Dee Ford or Justin Houston.  It's not the end of the world.

[UnitedWhofans]

Here here

9 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

All good points, but remember this.  Morse has health concerns, and the Bills just made him the highest paid center in the league.  His own team made no attempt to re-sign him.  We don't know what the inside story was when it came to the Jets not signing him.  We do know that the Jets wanted to sign a center, {Paradis} and for whatever reason it did not work out.

The Jets attempted to procure a pass rusher, Anthony Barr, and had an agreement with him.  That's not on the Jets.  It's on Barr.  Dee Ford would have cost more than what I think would have been worth it, and evidently the Jets agree.

The problem I have with your reasoning is the LeVeon Bell is by far a more impactful player than all three of the players you suggested.  He is the most impactful player that was available in Free Agency.  OF ALL PLAYERS.  He is worth more to this team, and offense, than any non quarterback in the league.  I would include that to mean Khalil Mack.  That is saying a lot.

Even with a trade down a quality pass rushing end or linebacker can still be had within the first 20 picks this year.  One that would offer much the same impact and results as Dee Ford or Justin Houston.  It's not the end of the world.

Le’veon Bell effectively fills 2 maybe even 3 rolls. A runner, a pass catcher and a blocker.

[Villain The Foe]

47 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

I mean you  can sell it like that . But year 1 and 2 where not rebuilds . This is really the 3rd year of that . I’m not even a Macc apologist I think he done  bad job up to this point . . I’m just releastic in terms of roster construction and the current path we are on .  

"Sell it"? Mike Maccagnan has been the GM since 2015. I dont have to sugarcoat that truth. 

You're absolutely correct. year's 1 and 2 werent rebuilds, but they should have been. Years 1 and 2 should have been about building around Smith or even Hackenberg since that was his guy. He did neither. 

In 2015 we knew that it was D'Bricks last season. We could have drafted Andrus Peat and placed him at guard or RT until Brick was gone and then you have your new T there. We could have drafted guards and Centers to help in the development of Smith, Hackenberg or any other QB that would end up here. 

No, what he did was he spent 100 million plus on trying to win now, and gave the keys to Ryan "Max 6 wins" Fitzception and essentially wasted 2 seasons on trying to win with a QB who has played for damn near every team in the league yet has never even had a playoff appearance. 

When that blew up in his face, he had to come to the fact that Smith was not going to resign with the Jets, which wasnt really a big deal in theory since he also drafted Hack. However, he had to also come to grips that Hack was a f'ing bust of proportions so large that it even surprised Jets fans when Macc drafted Hack in the 2nd round. I mean, that had to be the first time I ever seen Jetnation unanimously either flat out disagree or question a draft pick in real time. The pick was that bad...but lets continue. 

Year 3 consisted of purging the team of everything it did in free agency trying to "win it all" in year 1/year 2 along with moving on from the Fitzpatrick signing that was so stupid that I immediately knew that this guy was way over his f'ing head literally in his 2nd season as GM. Now it's "Hackenberg Time". By the regular season we realized that it was Josh McCown's time. 

Year 4: Now Macc finally realizes that he needs to actually rebuild the team given that he's wasted 3 seasons. So instead of giving a bum a 12 million dollar contract to start like he did Fitz, he decided to give a 10 million dollar 1 year contract to McCown so he can sit on the bench, maintain his hair and "mentor" a rookie QB who ends up being Darnold. 

Year 5. Now we're in the 3rd year of a rebuild that started 2 years late. Yet somehow Im being told that im "selling it" a certain way. Years 1 and 2 were stupid because he put all his eggs in 1 basket while at the same time not even giving that 2015 talent to Smith once he got back from getting his jaw broke, but instead gave it to Fitz, who deep down we all knew was fools gold. Some were just more vocal about Fitz than others. 

Macc wasted 2 years of this team, drafted one of the worst 2nd round QB's in Hack, gave Fitz a contract, gave McCown a contract to sit, never found value in free agency outside of James Carpenter, has blown tons of money and draft picks and is allergic to drafting offensive linemen with top draft picks. 

 

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

Who do you like coming out of college in 2 years?

My 20 year old daughter. Hopefully with a degree. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

So his past drafting history has nothing to do with this??   Are you kidding me?  It’s the whole reason that this team is where it is in his 5th year of service with this team.  Wake the f**k up man.  He can’t draft the easiest positions to fill so he’s forced to buy them at way above market value.  Maccagnan isn’t in his 2nd year, he’s been here for a while.   

Didn't say that.  I'm still waiting for the list of players you would have rather gotten in free agency as opposed to CJ Moseley, LeVeon Bell and Jamison Crowder.  You said he was a buffoon for getting and spending on those specific players.  I said that was ludicrous.  Still do. 

Disprove it with a list of players who would have been a better bargain, with more impact at those "need positions" you cited. Not with a rant about Macc's drafting and free agency history. It should be simple, if he's such a buffoon and these were such bad signings.

One last point.  You keep saying that he paid "way above market value".  LeVeon Bell's contract was universally acknowledged as being below market value.  Jamison Crowder was paid at market value, for slot receivers this year.  His value as a punt returner would put his contract at slightly below market value.  A case could be made for Moseley having a slightly inflated contract. It is not ridiculous.   

[Thai Jet]

49 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Would love to see this comment linked.  I've never seen it and given where we've picked cant believe anyone would announce this before or after a draft.  Have a feeling its pure nonsense someone wrote

I would tend to agree JN. Seems rather a stupid comment.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

The problem I have with your reasoning is the LeVeon Bell is by far a more impactful player than all three of the players you suggested.  He is the most impactful player that was available in Free Agency.  OF ALL PLAYERS.  He is worth more to this team, and offense, than any non quarterback in the league.  I would include that to mean Khalil Mack.  That is saying a lot.

VERY debatable.  Dee Ford was a very important pass rusher on a team that nearly made the Super Bowl.  What, exactly, have the Steelers been doing lately even when they had Bell?  The offense looked solid with James Conner at RB.

[Jet Nut]

37 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

"Sell it"? Mike Maccagnan has been the GM since 2015. I dont have to sugarcoat that truth. 

You're absolutely correct. year's 1 and 2 werent rebuilds, but they should have been. Years 1 and 2 should have been about building around Smith or even Hackenberg since that was his guy. He did neither. 

In 2015 we knew that it was D'Bricks last season. We could have drafted Andrus Peat and placed him at guard or RT until Brick was gone and then you have your new T there. We could have drafted guards and Centers to help in the development of Smith, Hackenberg or any other QB that would end up here. 

No, what he did was he spent 100 million plus on trying to win now, and gave the keys to Ryan "Max 6 wins" Fitzception and essentially wasted 2 seasons on trying to win with a QB who has played for damn near every team in the league yet has never even had a playoff appearance. 

When that blew up in his face, he had to come to the fact that Smith was not going to resign with the Jets, which wasnt really a big deal in theory since he also drafted Hack. However, he had to also come to grips that Hack was a f'ing bust of proportions so large that it even surprised Jets fans when Macc drafted Hack in the 2nd round. I mean, that had to be the first time I ever seen Jetnation unanimously either flat out disagree or question a draft pick in real time. The pick was that bad...but lets continue. 

Year 3 consisted of purging the team of everything it did in free agency trying to "win it all" in year 1/year 2 along with moving on from the Fitzpatrick signing that was so stupid that I immediately knew that this guy was way over his f'ing head literally in his 2nd season as GM. Now it's "Hackenberg Time". By the regular season we realized that it was Josh McCown's time. 

Year 4: Now Macc finally realizes that he needs to actually rebuild the team given that he's wasted 3 seasons. So instead of giving a bum a 12 million dollar contract to start like he did Fitz, he decided to give a 10 million dollar 1 year contract to McCown so he can sit on the bench, maintain his hair and "mentor" a rookie QB who ends up being Darnold. 

Year 5. Now we're in the 3rd year of a rebuild that started 2 years late. Yet somehow Im being told that im "selling it" a certain way. Years 1 and 2 were stupid because he put all his eggs in 1 basket while at the same time not even giving that 2015 talent to Smith once he got back from getting his jaw broke, but instead gave it to Fitz, who deep down we all knew was fools gold. Some were just more vocal about Fitz than others. 

Macc wasted 2 years of this team, drafted one of the worst 2nd round QB's in Hack, gave Fitz a contract, gave McCown a contract to sit, never found value in free agency outside of James Carpenter, has blown tons of money and draft picks and is allergic to drafting offensive linemen with top draft picks. 

 

Smith got himself punched out and Fitz did what Fitz did.  He had to play in year 2 after a 10 win season.  And I'd bet that trying to win in 15 was a ownership edict.  I cant blame anyone in the FO for that.  Or in year 2 after those 10 wins, too easy to think it could be improved upon.  Dont remember all the calls to start rebuilding after 10-6.  Oh and its not on the GM to play a player, thats on the HC, why you hire one.  

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

VERY debatable.  Dee Ford was a very important pass rusher on a team that nearly made the Super Bowl.  What, exactly, have the Steelers been doing lately even when they had Bell?  The offense looked solid with James Conner at RB.

I don't care about the Steelers.  This is all about what LeVeon Bell and his skill set is going to do for the New York Jets. The answer to that question is a lot.

The Chiefs Defense had absolutely nothing to do with them nearly making it to the Super Bowl.  They were horrendous.  All year.  Dee Ford is a very good player.  He is not Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, or LeVeon Bell.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I don't care about the Steelers.  This is all about what LeVeon Bell and his skill set is going to do for the New York Jets. The answer to that question is a lot. 

The Chiefs Defense had absolutely nothing to do with them nearly making it to the Super Bowl.  They were horrendous.  All year.  Dee Ford is a very good player.  He is not Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, or LeVeon Bell. 

And we could have possibly gotten Khalil Mack....

[NYJ1]

8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I've followed this teams dysfunction and taste for overall stupidity for decades. Sure, we haven't had a legit pass rusher since Abraham, but that wasn't due to not trying...since pass rusher is of course defense after all. The Jets attempted to address this position throughout various rounds in the draft over a span of a decade. 

We drafted Vernon Gholston in the 1st round in 2008, Quinton Coples in the 1st round in 2012, Trevor Riley in the 7th round in 2014, IK Enkempali in the 6th round in 2014, Lorenzo Mauldin in the 3rd round in 2015 and Darron Lee in the 1st round in 2016. 

And this is excluding signings that the Jets made to fill this position in free agency such as signing veterans like Jason Taylor from Miami. 

So just like that we can see that the Jets brought in atleast 7 pass rushers since John Abraham's departure, with three of them being 1st round investments. And its not like the good pass rushers were all drafted before the Jets were on the board. Just in 2012 alone the Jets drafted Coples and left Melvin Ingram and Chandler Jones on the board. In 2015 the Jets drafted Leo Williams even though we had Snacks, Wilkerson, Richardson and Douzable even though Vic Beasley was on the board. And even if folks look at Beasley as an overrated player, Danielle Hunter was drafted in the 3rd round, and that's after we drafted Lorenzo Mauldin. So again, Macc and the Jets are continuously swinging and missing on the same positions while thinking that just because they drafted a QB then everything on the offensive side of the all is essentially good to go. 

When's the last time we invested in the offense or protecting our QB like that? What have we done to seriously replace Brandon Moore, Damian Woody, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Nick Mangold and Alan Faneca? We brought in James Carpenter, which was a solid pick up and drafted Brian Winters which is an inconsistently average player. Since drafting Vlad Ducasse in the 2nd round in 2010, the Jets has essentially regulated the offensive line to mid to late round picks, and those are few and far between. The earliest pick we've taken is Winters in the 3rd in 2013. Since then We've drafted Jarvis Harrison, Brandon Shell and Dakota Dozier. two 5th's and a 4th round pick. We've invested one 3rd round pick to the Oline since 2013, 1 2nd round pick since 2010 and just two 1st round picks since 2006, and both those picks occurred in 2006. 

The Jets have been absolutely reckless with this position group/offensive side of the ball. Meanwhile since 2006 the Jets have drafted 9 QB's. NINE of them! two of those QB's being 1st round picks and the other 2 being 2nd round picks. 

Meanwhile we've provided them with no respectable draft value at Oline, RB or WR. 

 

I can literally predict this team. This year we're going to talk about how "extremely appealing a pass rusher is this year. We'll draft one, and we're going to go into the season with Trumaine Johnson at CB and whoever will be opposite him. Then next season when Sam Darnold needs offensive linemen and offensive weapons on the outside (as he needs right now), the draft will once again be a "defense heavy" draft and we're going to talk about "how appealing it is" to draft a Cornerback to either fill in opposite Johnson or to replace Johnson. Then im going to talk about how we need to rebuild the Oline and folks are going to tell me how we need to pair a shutdown Corner to assist with our new pass rusher. The story never changes.

And just like the pass rusher position, all the Jets have done was also invest top draft picks into the secondary as well as top dollar free agent money. Passing on MVP/ProBowl caliber QB's in order to draft Safety in the 1st and then 2nd rounds. lol. 

 

Trust me, nothing has to sink in for me. I've seen all the stupidity this team has to offer. And its easy to explain. Drafting offensive linemen isnt "sexy or splashy". It's boring and it doesnt get the fanbase hyped. Drafting corner, DT and pass rusher does. So that's all we do. 

 

We're going to provide Sam Darnold with nothing, then wonder why he failed. And when we have to draft another 9 QB's after Sam Darnold, the first thing we're going to get them in the draft are a pass rusher, a defensive tackle and a cornerback....because those are sexy. And if you bust in the draft department, make sure you spend over 100 million in one free agency to revamp the secondary, only to see that secondary begin to dismantle after just 2 seasons. 

Yeah, that's how the "Jest" should build and balance their football team.

Well, I definitely think Mac will trade down. Number 1, Mac can still draft the very best OL in the draft and he doesn't need to stay at 3 to do it. Number 2, this draft is supposedly loaded with pass rushers. So he can still get a pass rusher later on.

I follow this team very closely and I can't see Mac making the mistakes you're talking about. I understand he sucks but I think you're taking this way too far.

[Joejet]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

VERY debatable.  Dee Ford was a very important pass rusher on a team that nearly made the Super Bowl.  What, exactly, have the Steelers been doing lately even when they had Bell?  The offense looked solid with James Conner at RB.

Dee Ford was only available through a trade.  The 49ers gave up a second round draft pick to get him.

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Didn't say that.  I'm still waiting for the list of players you would have rather gotten in free agency as opposed to CJ Moseley, LeVeon Bell and Jamison Crowder.  You said he was a buffoon for getting and spending on those specific players.  I said that was ludicrous.  Still do. 

Disprove it with a list of players who would have been a better bargain, with more impact at those "need positions" you cited. Not with a rant about Macc's drafting and free agency history. It should be simple, if he's such a buffoon and these were such bad signings.

One last point.  You keep saying that he paid "way above market value".  LeVeon Bell's contract was universally acknowledged as being below market value.  Jamison Crowder was paid at market value, for slot receivers this year.  His value as a punt returner would put his contract at slightly below market value.  A case could be made for Moseley having a slightly inflated contract. It is not ridiculous.   

I'd like to take a crack at this. 

CJ Mosley signed a 5 year 85 million dollar contract. Now CJ Mosley is really good, but he's not Luke Kuechley. 

We could have signed Jordan Hicks, a guy who is also a probowl caliber LB that has good cover skills who signed a contract for 4 years 36 million. Matter of fact, Jordan Hicks is exactly what Darron Lee should have been. He doesnt have Lee's 40 speed, but he's an overall better overage LB than Lee has ever displayed on a football field. Both Hicks and Mosley are the same age, but with Hicks you're offering a LB a contract that you can get some return on. Are we really going to get 85 million dollars worth of talent out of that position? Better yet, with the 49 million dollars saved by signing Jordan Hicks instead, now you have the 24+ million to sign Justin Houston. So instead of him signing with the colts for 24 million over 2 years, we could have offered him 2 years 30 million, got both Houson and Hicks and saved 19 million dollars. 

I like the Bell/Crowder signings, but I honestly believe that Bell is only a Jet because Barr backed out out his verbal agreement. Yet another example of Macc seeing the offense and the offensive skillset positions as something second rate. 

 

Jets signed K Chandler Catanzaro. Dude was a terrible kicker when we had him in 2017 and he was statistically worse with the Bucs who cut him and then he signed with the Panthers and they didnt resign him. We're getting a guy who's numbers in 2018 were worse than what it was when we let him go after 2017. 

Meanwhile Stephen Gostkowski is available right now. He's obviously a 3 time SB winner, 4 time pro bowler and 2 time all pro. He would be a clear upgrade as well as give us some insight on things Patriots. 

I love the Trevor Siemian signing as a back up QB. This is what you do instead of signing a journeyman QB with a losing record 10 million dollars to be a mentor because he's a nice guy. Trevor Siemian has a winning record in this league and he's not looking to be some mentor, he's looking to become a starter and compete for the position. That's what we need, and that contract was only 2 million dollars, not 10 million. 

 

Josh Bellamy is trash. He signed for 2 years 7 million dollars. I specifically know Josh Bellamy because I watched Bears football when Mike Glennon was signed there and that was the year where it was clear that every wide receiver on that team should be cut. Josh Bellamy was one of those terrible Chicago Bears targets. 

I would have kept Andre Roberts. Josh Bellemy contributes to special teams, but he's not an all pro return specialist. And what Josh Bellamy brings to the table as a receiver I know that at bare minimum im going to get that out of Roberts as a #4 or #5 WR as well. Signing Bellamy and actually cutting Roberts was a clear downgrade and was unnecessary. Granted, I know we have Crowder on the team and he can return kicks, but it's okay to have depth at both receiver and special teams, especially when your #4 WR can be an all pro returner. Stupid move by Macc. 

Brian Poole is suspect in coverage. It's a 1 year prove it deal. 

I would have signed EJ Gaines instead. This is a wash though. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

20 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Well, I definitely think Mac will trade down. Number 1, Mac can still draft the very best OL in the draft and he doesn't need to stay at 3 to do it. Number 2, this draft is supposedly loaded with pass rushers. So he can still get a pass rusher later on.

I follow this team very closely and I can't see Mac making the mistakes you're talking about. I understand he sucks but I think you're taking this way too far.

We'll see. 

[Villain The Foe]

36 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Smith got himself punched out and Fitz did what Fitz did.  He had to play in year 2 after a 10 win season.  And I'd bet that trying to win in 15 was a ownership edict.  I cant blame anyone in the FO for that.  Or in year 2 after those 10 wins, too easy to think it could be improved upon.  Dont remember all the calls to start rebuilding after 10-6.  Oh and its not on the GM to play a player, thats on the HC, why you hire one.  

 

lol. 

This is why the Jets are the Jets. 

I will blame everyone in the front office if they made the decision to move forward with it. This is one of many stupid things that came out of the front office. This dude Macc gets no protection from any of this. He put his name on all of it. 

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

lol. 

This is why the Jets are the Jets. 

I will blame everyone in the front office if they made the decision to move forward with it. This is one of many stupid things that came out of the front office. This dude Macc gets no protection from any of this. He put his name on all of it. 

except I dont see why anyone should be blamed.  We had lots of holes and Idzik didnt fill them with players.  We had tons of cap dollars to spend.  The players we signed had their last productive season and left everyone, fans included fooled with what we thought we were.  Shltty part is we werent that kind of team

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

VERY debatable.  Dee Ford was a very important pass rusher on a team that nearly made the Super Bowl.  What, exactly, have the Steelers been doing lately even when they had Bell?  The offense looked solid with James Conner at RB.

Indeed debatable. That Chiefs team would have made the AFCCG purely off of that explosive offense and their QB. If Dee Ford wasnt a Chief I still think the AFCCG would have been Chiefs/Patriots. 

Meanwhile, the year that Le'Veon Bell decides to not suit up coincides with the the Steelers not making the playoffs for the first time since Bell is drafted in the league in 2013. I didnt see James Conner rushing and catching that team into the playoffs. 

I would make the case that Le'Veon Bell has had more to do with the Steelers making the playoffs year after year than Dee Ford having as much do to with that Chiefs team making the AFCCG. 

Bell has been the Steelers team MVP multiple times. Dee Ford has never been Chiefs team MVP. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Indeed debatable. That Chiefs team would have made the AFCCG purely off of that explosive offense and their QB. If Dee Ford wasnt a Chief I still think the AFCCG would have been Chiefs/Patriots. 

Meanwhile, the year that Le'Veon Bell decides not suit up coincides with the the Steelers not making the playoffs for the first time since Bell is drafted in the league in 2013. 

I would make the case that Le'Veon Bell has had more to do with the Steelers making the playoffs year after year than Dee Ford having as much do to with that Chiefs team making the AFCCG. 

Bell has been the Steelers team MVP multiple times. Dee Ford has never been Chiefs team MVP.  

 

The Steelers went 10-6 and made the playoffs in 2015 with DeAngelo Williams as their leading rusher. 

And who cares about Team MVP?  lol. 

[Villain The Foe]

15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

except I dont see why anyone should be blamed.  We had lots of holes and Idzik didnt fill them with players.  We had tons of cap dollars to spend.  The players we signed had their last productive season and left everyone, fans included fooled with what we thought we were.  Shltty part is we werent that kind of team

John Idzik was bought in to purge the team, and he did so. Woody Johnson didnt give him a chance to build up the team. You dont hire a guy knowing that he has to purge the team in year 1 then fire him after year 2. 

This is year 5 for Macc, where we seen the first 2 years get pissed away on signing old-head cornerbacks for nostalgic purposes and investing in a QB who is a walking curse to every other QB who's ever been part of the QB room with him. Years 3 and 4 have been trying to undo those mistakes. 

Atleast Macc had the opportunity. Idzik never had the opportunity to squander. Jets fans were too busy buy up billboard space. Now im not saying that Idzik would have been good. His only draft pick that worked out from the Idzik 13 was Quincy. But the paid that Idzik endured Macc came in and took full advantage of and yet did nothing but squander it. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

16 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I'd like to take a crack at this. 

CJ Mosley signed a 5 year 85 million dollar contract. Now CJ Mosley is really good, but he's not Luke Kuechley. 

We could have signed Jordan Hicks, a guy who is also a probowl caliber LB that has good cover skills who signed a contract for 4 years 36 million. Matter of fact, Jordan Hicks is exactly what Darron Lee should have been. He doesnt have Lee's 40 speed, but he's an overall better overage LB than Lee has ever displayed on a football field. Both Hicks and Mosley are the same age, but with Hicks you're offering a LB a contract that you can get some return on. Are we really going to get 85 million dollars out of that position? Better yet, with the 49 million dollars saved by signing Jordan Hicks instead, now you have the 24+ million to sign Justin Houston. So instead of him signing with the colts for 24 million over 2 years, we could have offered him 2 years 30 million, got both Houson and Hicks and saved 19 million dollars. 

I like the Bell/Crowder signings, but I honestly believe that Bell is only a Jet because Barr backed out out his verbal agreement. Yet another example of Macc seeing the offense and the offensive skillset positions as something second rate. 

 

Jets signed K Chandler Catanzaro. Dude was a terrible kicker when we had him in 2017 and he was statistically worse with the Bucs who cut him and then he signed with the Panthers and they didnt resign him. We're getting a guy who's numbers in 2018 were worse than what it was when we let him go after 2017. 

Meanwhile Stephen Gostkowski is available right now. He's obviously a 3 time SB winner, 4 time pro bowler and 2 time all pro. He would be a clear upgrade as well as give us some insight on things Patriots. 

I love the Trevor Siemian signing as a back up QB. This is what you do instead of signing a journeyman QB with a losing record 10 million dollars to be a mentor because he's a nice guy. Trevor Siemian has a winning record in this league and he's not looking to be some mentor, he's looking to become a starter and compete for the position. That's what we need, and that contract was only 2 million dollars, not 10 million. 

 

Josh Bellamy is trash. He signed for 2 years 7 million dollars. I specifically know Josh Bellamy because I watched Bears football when Mike Glennon was signed there and that was the year where it was clear that every wide receiver on that team should be cut. Josh Bellamy was one of those terrible Chicago Bears targets. 

I would have kept Andre Roberts. Josh Bellemy contributes to special teams, but he's not an all pro return specialist. And what Josh Bellamy brings to the table as a receiver I know that at bare minimum im going to get that out of Roberts as a #4 or #5 WR as well. Signing Bellamy and actually cutting Roberts was a clear downgrade and was unnecessary. Granted, I know we have Crowder on the team and he can return kicks, but it's okay to have depth at both receiver and special teams, especially when your #4 WR can be an all pro returner. Stupid move by Macc. 

Brian Poole is suspect in coverage. It's a 1 year prove it deal. 

I would have signed EJ Gaines instead. This is a wash though. 

 

You're jumping the gun on Hicks.  He is a nice player.  He has also been IR'd two of the four years he has been in the league.  He missed four games this past season.  He has played a full schedule once.  He is not on the level of CJ Moseley or Luke Kuechly.  Moseley's contract is essentially for three years.  After that the cap hit would be minimal.  Obviously, Kuechly was not available.  Good point about the 2/1 signing, but there's no reason to believe that Houston would have signed with the Jets for the same 2year , 24 million he accepted from the Colts.

As for the kicker, it was a financial situation.  Myers will now be the 8th highest paid kicker in the league.  Contract is for 4 years. Gostkowski has been the highest paid kicker in the league.  It will take that to lure him away from the Cheats.  Not going to happen.  Catanzaro is signed for one year 2.3 million with only 600,000 guaranteed.  Myers got a 4million dollar signing bonus and a 1.5 million salary for this year only.  This season he will cost the Seahawks 5.5 million dollars if he doesn't play for them past this season. Catanzaro is not great.  He has a strong leg and wasn't terrible for us in 2017.  Myers was great, for one year.  We'll see what happens going forward.

Andre Roberts was a great kickoff returner.  He was a decent punt returner.  That's it.  He was woeful as any kind of depth at wide receiver. If he offered anything more than being a return specialist, he would still be here.  Crowder is a better punt returner.  I believe Cannon can return kickoffs.  We'll see   Roberts  did not play special teams beyond his returning duties.  Bellamy plays all four units on special teams.  That is why he was signed.  Anything they get out of him as a depth receiver should be considered  a bonus.  Poole will be at least as good as Buster Skrine.  I'd be hard pressed to think that he can be any worse.  He was brought here because of the coaching staff's familiarity with him and his well earned reputation as a bulldog.

So based on your suggestions and comments, it's clear that we pretty much agree, other than splitting hairs here and there.

[Villain The Foe]

56 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Steelers went 10-6 and made the playoffs in 2015 with DeAngelo Williams as their leading rusher. 

Given a shortened season in which Bell still contributed. But let it said that you clearly couldnt use your guy James Conner as an example though. 

Quote

And who cares about Team MVP?  lol. 

Teams do. But more importantly, if you're going to talk about what's debatable in terms of a players value to teams success, then obviously you do as well. 

And the bottomline here is that Le'Veon Bell has been the most valuable player for the Steelers twice, while Dee Ford has never been for the chiefs. And if that isnt good enough, then we can go the typical route and state that Bell is a 3 time pro bowler, 2 time 1st team all pro and a 2nd team all pro. Dee Ford just became a probowler. The league doesnt even value Ford that way. 

The Steelers tried to franchise tag Bell on multiple seasons, the Chiefs meanwhile traded away Dee Ford. Nothing else that needs to be said after that. 

 

lol. 

[Raideraholic]

1 hour ago, NYJ1 said:

Well, I definitely think Mac will trade down. Number 1, Mac can still draft the very best OL in the draft and he doesn't need to stay at 3 to do it. Number 2, this draft is supposedly loaded with pass rushers. So he can still get a pass rusher later on.

I follow this team very closely and I can't see Mac making the mistakes you're talking about. I understand he sucks but I think you're taking this way too far.

Couple of points .   Number 1 yes you can trade back and possible get the best offense lineman in this draft.( depends how far you drop back).    Still should be able to get pretty good offense lineman.

2. Jets trade back and take an offensive lineman , the chances of them being able to get a top pass rusher is nill . If the Jets take Josh Allen at three, and the Raiders are forced between Q Williams or trading back to get one of the top pass rushing De's.   

The Raiders need a pass rushing De, if they elect Q Williams they probably lose a chance to get a pass rushing De themselves ( they have two more first at 24, and 27).      Point being if the Raiders probably going to miss out on pass rushing De , than Jets who are drafting way later have no chance.

[Villain The Foe]

43 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

You're jumping the gun on Hicks.  He is a nice player.  He has also been IR'd two of the four years he has been in the league.  He missed four games this past season.  He has played a full schedule once.  He is not on the level of CJ Moseley or Luke Kuechly.  Moseley's contract is essentially for three years.  After that the cap hit would be minimal.  Obviously, Kuechly was not available.  Good point about the 2/1 signing, but there's no reason to believe that Houston would have signed with the Jets for the same 2year , 24 million he accepted from the Colts.

Mosley isnt even on the level of Luke Luechly. Luke is an elite perennial 1st team all pro. Mosley has never been a 1st team all pro. Im not putting Hicks on the level of Kuechly or Mosley for what it's worth. What im saying is that CJ Mosley is receiving what should be Luke Kuechly's money, which is clearly a situation where the Jets over paid. Luke is on a 5 year 62 million dollar contract. Mosley beat that by more than 20 million. 

I could have done better by signing Hicks and matching him with our pass rusher and saving 20 million, even with the proneness to injury. I would have a chance to get more out of those two deals, especially if Hicks stays healthy than I ever will trying to get 85 million dollars worth of talent out of CJ Mosley, when he's not even on the same level as Luke yet he just outpaced his contract by more than 20 million. And even if you decide to go guaranteed, the bottomline is that Mosley isnt worth 17 million a season per, no matter how long or short he's here for.

Hicks is a nice player, and his contract reflects that. Mosley's contract would have you believe that he's the best LB in the league. Mike Maccagnan will never get that value out of that deal...and this is a prime example of Macc being a poor GM. Slapd_ck GM's sign big names and get splashy to this degree. Good GM's find value in free agency. That is not a value contract. It's a very good player, dont get me wrong. But the contract is a losers contract. All it did was make Mosley filthy rich, but we wont see near that value on the field. 

Also, my deal to Houston wasnt the same as the colts. I said 2  years 30 million, which I would have offered Houston 6 million more overall on the deal and still saved almost 20 Million dollars simply by signing value players at LB and providing some overvalue dollars to a position that is going to be more impactful if successfully filled. 

Quote

As for the kicker, it was a financial situation.  Myers will now be the 8th highest paid kicker in the league.  Contract is for 4 years. Gostkowski has been the highest paid kicker in the league.  It will take that to lure him away from the Cheats.  Not going to happen.  Catanzaro is signed for one year 2.3 million with only 600,000 guaranteed.  Myers got a 4million dollar signing bonus and a 1.5 million salary for this year only.  This season he will cost the Seahawks 5.5 million dollars if he doesn't play for them past this season. Catanzaro is not great.  He has a strong leg and wasn't terrible for us in 2017.  Myers was great, for one year.  We'll see what happens going forward.

I guess we have to worry about financials for kickers when we pay guys like CJ Mosley 85 million dollars. Again, Maccs decisions is never about finding value. Would Gostkowski be worth the money? Would Meyers be worth the money? Well, based on their production they'd be worth their money than paying Catanzaro 2.3 million dollars to miss kicks. It's not a value signing, so it's a poor signing. Especially when even now if im correct the Jets sit at 35 million million in cap space, so it's not like they were so strapped down that they had to take some shortcuts at the kicking position. It's frivolous inconsistenct nonsense that Maccagnan does often. 

Quote

Andre Roberts was a great kickoff returner.  He was a decent punt returner.  That's it.  He was woeful as any kind of depth at wide receiver. If he offered anything more than being a return specialist, he would still be here.  Crowder is a better punt returner.  I believe Cannon can return kickoffs.  We'll see   Roberts  did not play special teams beyond his returning duties.  Bellamy plays all four units on special teams.  That is why he was signed.  Anything they get out of him as a depth receiver should be considered  a bonus.  Poole will be at least as good as Buster Skrine.  I'd be hard pressed to think that he can be any worse.  He was brought here because of the coaching staff's familiarity with him and his well earned reputation as a bulldog.

So based on your suggestions and comments, it's clear that we pretty much agree, other than splitting hairs here and there.

And Crowder is a very good punt returner. We have our solution in Crowder. Sure, Roberts wasnt bringing you anything in the receiving game, but neither is Bellamy. So Bellemy is a jack of all trades on specials...okay, dont we have Cannon on the team? It's one thing to cut a good returner for a jack of all trades because he can contribute in more ways. It's another to cut an all pro....especially when you already have Cannon. 

Macc finally gets something going right with Special Teams and he decides to walk away from both...and I also believe that we let go of the special teams coach as well. 

 

[Philc1]

There is no Quentin Nelson or Brick in this draft