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Villain The Foe

We need to change this teams free agent/drafting philosophy

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5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Jawaan Taylor is currently the highest rated Tackle and he’s a middle to late first round pick.  Really I mean we should be trading down for that when we have not had a pass rusher in 13 years?

If we trade down, we'll still take a pass rusher. People have short memories. We tried to obtain Mack. We brought in Copeland, signed Luvu, then we picked up the guy that was with the Colts. Basham. I doubt we pass on a 1st rd prospect who can rush the passer. No way.

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7 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This post just goes to show...”ain’t no making a jet fan happy” 

I think the jets could win the supeebowl and jet fans be like “32nd pick bro!!”

Which resulting Jets season have you been satisfied with? Made you happy? Im not talking in March, Im talking about the end of December, week 17.

I'll wait. 

 

(No I wont). 

The year we pick 32nd in the draft, make sure to come get me

 

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3 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Agree overall and good point that it's not just Mac ignoring the OL, it has been since 2010 that the Jets used a 2nd round pick on OL - and that was "big ugly" Vlad

Soooo Ugly. And his face was bad too.  Still can't believe we cut Faneca because Vlad was in the house.  Just the worst.

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Im about as anti-Mac as possible but he has had a solid offseason so far. Having said that, he is also the #1 reason I'm 300% opposed to trading the pick. Outside of the high 1st rounders (Adams,Leo,Sam) his only really good pick looks like Herndon. Being that Edge has been a need for like a decade I don't trust Macs drafting and player evaluation abilities enough to pass up on Bosa/Allen.  Stay at 3 and lock down the edge. 

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1 hour ago, genot said:

If we trade down, we'll still take a pass rusher. People have short memories. We tried to obtain Mack. We brought in Copeland, signed Luvu, then we picked up the guy that was with the Colts. Basham. I doubt we pass on a 1st rd prospect who can rush the passer. No way.

I wouldn’t trade down lower than 6 with the giants.  At least then we could still draft Sweat

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8 minutes ago, SR24 said:

Im about as anti-Mac as possible but he has had a solid offseason so far. Having said that, he is also the #1 reason I'm 300% opposed to trading the pick. Outside of the high 1st rounders (Adams,Leo,Sam) his only really good pick looks like Herndon. Being that Edge has been a need for like a decade I don't trust Macs drafting and player evaluation abilities enough to pass up on Bosa/Allen.  Stay at 3 and lock down the edge. 

Agree.  Overall the offseason so far has been solid just do nothing stay put and take Allen

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1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:

Soooo Ugly. And his face was bad too.  Still can't believe we cut Faneca because Vlad was in the house.  Just the worst.

Vlad had a decent career after leaving the jets

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Just now, Philc1 said:

I wouldn’t trade down lower than 6 with the giants.  At least then we could still draft Sweat

I think Burns might be in the discussion now. He's bulked up, and appears to be moving up draft boards. Not a top ten pick. but close.

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23 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Vlad had a decent career after leaving the jets

Ya think?  He lost his job to winters, spent 3 years as a traveler for 3 teams and was benched last year.  I had high hopes for him. Partially becuase I had to hope he'd be good after taking him in the 2nd to replace faneca and He was huge.  But cutting Faneca just because he was picked was a mistake. 

He's still playing so there's that and there are worse out there, some right here in Green and White, but I would stop short of saying he had a decent career. He's essentially a depth guy overall. 

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33 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Ya think?  He lost his job to winters, spent 3 years as a traveler for 3 teams and was benched last year.  I had high hopes for him. Partially becuase I had to hope he'd be good after taking him in the 2nd to replace faneca and He was huge.  But cutting Faneca just because he was picked was a mistake. 

He's still playing so there's that and there are worse out there, some right here in Green and White, but I would stop short of saying he had a decent career. He's essentially a depth guy overall. 

He's been pretty bad, and one of the Jets best 2nd round picks in the past 20 years.  

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22 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Maybe not Nelson, but Brick was just a 3 time pro bowler. He was never an all pro. Dont get me wrong, he was a very good LT and is a ring of honor guy. But he's not HOF'er. Nelson went into the draft looking like a bonafide all pro future HOF'er. No one is coming into this draft with that level of hype.

To say that you're confident that there isnt a tackle in this class that could become a 3 time probowler (D'Brick's accolades) needs to be said along with a detailed explanation of what you've seen out of this tackle class. 

 

OK let's just say there is no offensive lineman in this draft work a top 3 pick. NONE 

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7 hours ago, Ghost420 said:

OK let's just say there is no offensive lineman in this draft work a top 3 pick. NONE 

No one said a thing about drafting a Olineman top 3. 

Folks act like trading down is impossible. 

 

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You can’t make appropriate use of FA unless you have baseline competence in drafting.

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33 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

No one said a thing about drafting a Olineman top 3. 

Folks act like trading down is impossible. 

 

It may be. Have you seen the mock discussion forum?

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

It may be. Have you seen the mock discussion forum?

Guy we can get a center and another OL in the 3rd that have all the ability to be upgrades to what we have, and a small chance to out perform thier likely NFL average type of play . I sign up for NFL average type of play all week. That is with out any trading...so we are good.

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1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Guy we can get a center and another OL in the 3rd that have all the ability to be upgrades to what we have, and a small chance to out perform thier likely NFL average type of play . I sign up for NFL average type of play all week. That is with out any trading...so we are good.

I'd kill for the 16th rated OL.

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6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

No one said a thing about drafting a Olineman top 3. 

Folks act like trading down is impossible. 

 

Hmmmm, I may or may not have said reaching for OL at 3, if trade back is impossible, might be better than grabbing a  pass rusher at 3 due to value.  This may be all my fault. lol 

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18 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Ya think?  He lost his job to winters, spent 3 years as a traveler for 3 teams and was benched last year.  I had high hopes for him. Partially becuase I had to hope he'd be good after taking him in the 2nd to replace faneca and He was huge.  But cutting Faneca just because he was picked was a mistake. 

He's still playing so there's that and there are worse out there, some right here in Green and White, but I would stop short of saying he had a decent career. He's essentially a depth guy overall. 

Vlad started several years for the bears.  It wasn’t like he was Hack, Smith or Mauldin who were out of the nfl as soon as they stopped getting free money from the jets

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6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

No one said a thing about drafting a Olineman top 3. 

Folks act like trading down is impossible. 

 

And folks like you act like it’s automatically inevitable 

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1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Vlad started several years for the bears.  It wasn’t like he was Hack, Smith or Mauldin who were out of the nfl as soon as they stopped getting free money from the jets

Mauldin is about to have a shakespearian come back man. Haven't you heard?  lol

Vlad is certainly not Hack. I will give you that. What makes the Vlad pick terrible is the circumstance.  Letting Faneca go 10 min after reaching for a small school project was no way to do it. It was the beginning of the Rex/Tanny combo getting too cute for their own good. The next offseason was when they went for Aso, Plax, Holmes and Mason while letting all of the high character work horses go.(b.Smith, Ellis, Cotch, Bray Bray etc) Vlad is the spear tip of that whole mess in my mind. 

He would have been fine to pick and let sit behind Faneca for a year or two and let Callahan work on him without the stress of trying to replace a legendary vet. 

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1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Guy we can get a center and another OL in the 3rd that have all the ability to be upgrades to what we have, and a small chance to out perform thier likely NFL average type of play . I sign up for NFL average type of play all week. That is with out any trading...so we are good.

This isnt solely about offensive linemen. Most of the draft picks as well as free agent money over the past half decade has been allocated to the defensive side of the ball. 

The Jets dont just need two offensive rookie lineman. We need talent on the offensive side of the ball. We need another TE, we need a #1 WR along with offensive linemen. 

Trading down will allow us to still pick in the 1st round but also provide us with a couple 2nd round picks. We can add to the offense and defense in the first 2 rounds before even getting to the 3rd round if we trade down. 

I dont feel it's wise to constantly draft quarterbacks and then find reasons to rarely allocate top draft picks to that side of the ball. 

For all the people who for years cried and begged for Sam Darnold, those same people should be begging for young talent to be drafted with quality picks on the offense. Waiting for the 3rd round just to provide Oline help then completely misses the overall problem here. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The Jets dont just need two offensive rookie lineman. We need talent on the offensive side of the ball. We need another TE, we need a #1 WR along with offensive linemen. 

 

Well at this point, they need one offensive rookie lineman. 

We have 5 TEs currently on the roster, with a clear starter.

As for a #1 WR, I'm starting to believe that the current system of the NFL and the way offenses can move are making #1 receivers less and less of a priority in the sense that many different types of receivers can be #1s. For the Pats, you can argue that Julian Edelman is the #1 and he is not what you think of in that matter. For the Rams, Brandin Cooks?

 

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

And folks like you act like it’s automatically inevitable 

Automatically inevitable...from a Jets organization that I dont believe has ever traded back in the 1st round?????

Pretty ridiculous response. Add to the fact that the title of this thread is also about how we need to change the drafting philosophy, given that trading down is been nothing but an absolute improbability...given history and all. 

 

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37 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well at this point, they need one offensive rookie lineman. 

We have 5 TEs currently on the roster, with a clear starter.

As for a #1 WR, I'm starting to believe that the current system of the NFL and the way offenses can move are making #1 receivers less and less of a priority in the sense that many different types of receivers can be #1s. For the Pats, you can argue that Julian Edelman is the #1 and he is not what you think of in that matter. For the Rams, Brandin Cooks?

 

At this point they do need on offensive lineman. 

I agree with your TE comment, though having 5 TE's on the roster and knowing that our clear starter is guy guy who barely made the top 20 at the position shows me how poor the TE room is collectively. It's not as pressing a need, but if there's talent to be had in the draft then I have no problem dismissing one or two of those TE's we currently have for a better one. Depth counts. 

As for WR, you can hold that belief, and you may have a point generally. However, it's not a stretch to say that the Jets WR group is bottom 10 in the league, which means that we have to provide that position with some talent. 

We dont need a Julio Jones, but if we could find a WR good enough to make Anderson our #2, Quincy our #3 and Crowder our #4 then the Jets have made quite the upgrade given that I would bet on Anderson against many #2 CB's as well as on Quincy or Crowder against #3/#4 guys. Anderson/Quincy as our top guys is a bottom 10 group in the league. 

Im not going to compare Tom Brady and the Patriots or the Rams....two SB teams with enough talent and coaching to the Jets, a team that cant even win a division or make the playoffs. 

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25 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Automatically inevitable...from a Jets organization that I dont believe has ever traded back in the 1st round?????

Pretty ridiculous response. Add to the fact that the title of this thread is also about how we need to change the drafting philosophy, given that trading down is been nothing but an absolute improbability...given history and all. 

 

The last time we traded down in the 1st round we ended up passing on two hall of fame LT’s in favor of James Farrior.

Normally I wouldn’t be against trading down, but the Jets are now in prime position to land the stud edgerusher that we haven’t had in 15 years.

I’m all about improving the talent surrounding Darnold, but I’m not passing on a talent like Bosa/Allen just so the Jets can inevitably trade down, take a lesser EDGE prospect and pick up a 2nd rounder.

Grab your guy who can potentially cause nightmares for opposing QB’s every week for the next decade and then focus heavily on the offense for the rest of the draft.

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2 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Hmmmm, I may or may not have said reaching for OL at 3, if trade back is impossible, might be better than grabbing a  pass rusher at 3 due to value.  This may be all my fault. lol 

There may not be an Olineman worth the 3rd pick. But is there an offensive player outside of QB that is considered a top 5 talent? 

The point is that the Jets need talent on the offensive side of the ball. It doesnt have to be Olineman. If for example, I thought that a WR was a top 5 talent, and im stuck at 3 then I'd take him since I couldnt trade down. 

This defense has had countless premium draft picks and FA money thrown at it year after year after year. We just drafted a QB. I want the Jets to act like moving up to draft Darnold last year was actually important to them to the point that they will now even invest premium picks on that side of the ball. 

It's not like we're 1 pass rusher away from the big dance. Trade down or not, we need premium picks to go to the offense. 3 years from now we'll look back and see some top offensive players taken in the 1st or 2nd round. It's the scouts and GM's job to find those guys and draft them. 

Constantly telling folks that only defensive players have been worth those top picks is bullsh*t. I can go back to every draft and see how the draft broke down relative to the talent showed who was overdrafted and who was underrated. Im getting tired of drafting the Darron Lee's while seeing the Cody Whitehair's and Michael Thomas be drafted afterward. 

We have the 3rd pick in the draft and we supposedly have our franchise QB. We need to do everything we can to provide him with young cheap talent while he's on his rookie deal. Darnold being able to score points every Sunday is going to mean more to the Jets in terms of wins than 10-15 sacks by Josh Allen. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

The last time we traded down in the 1st round we ended up passing on two hall of fame LT’s in favor of James Farrior.

Normally I wouldn’t be against trading down, but the Jets are now in prime position to land the stud edgerusher that we haven’t had in 15 years.

I’m all about improving the talent surrounding Darnold, but I’m not passing on a talent like Bosa/Allen just so the Jets can inevitably trade down, take a lesser EDGE prospect and pick up a 2nd rounder.

Grab your guy who can potentially cause nightmares for opposing QB’s every week for the next decade and then focus heavily on the offense for the rest of the draft.

Folks say that they're all about improving the talent surrounding Darnold, however the "but" portion of the statements shows what they're really about. 

Sam Darnold is the most important player on this team. Darnold is supposed to be the guy to cause those nightmares. I've watched Jets fans for 2 years straight cry to draft this kid. The moment we do then now it's: Im all about improving the talent surrounding Darnold...."but". 

Im tired of that sh*t from the Front Office. 

 

EDIT: And Farrior had a borderline HOF career himself, just for another team who utilized him correctly.

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7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Folks say that they're all about improving the talent surrounding Darnold, however the "but" portion of the statements shows what they're really about. 

Sam Darnold is the most important player on this team. Darnold is supposed to be the guy to cause those nightmares. I've watched Jets fans for 2 years straight cry to draft this kid. The moment we do then now it's: Im all about improving the talent surrounding Darnold...."but". 

Im tired of that sh*t. 

 

EDIT: And Farrior had a borderline HOF career himself, just for another team who utilized him correctly.

Hey, if I were guaranteed that the Jets would take someone like Jawaan Taylor, Jonah Williams, T.J. Hockenson, etc if they traded down...I’d be a helluva lot more open to it.

But I think even if they did trade down, they’d still end up taking an edgerusher like Burns, Sweat, Ferrell, etc or a corner like Greedy or Murphy.

So I’d rather stand pat and take one of the few blue-chippers in this draft  class who also happens to play a premium position and fills a major need we’ve had for nearly 2 decades.

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4 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Hey, if I were guaranteed that the Jets would take someone like Jawaan Taylor, Jonah Williams, T.J. Hockenson, etc if they traded down...I’d be a helluva lot more open to it.

But I think even if they did trade down, they’d still end up taking an edgerusher like Burns, Sweat, Ferrell, etc or a corner like Greedy or Murphy.

So I’d rather stand pat and take one of the few blue-chippers in this draft  class who also happens to play a premium position and fills a major need we’ve had for nearly 2 decades.

I wouldn't even have much of a problem with that. Why? Because a trade down is probably going to get them a 2nd round pick. 

So knowing the Jets they probably would still go defense in the 1st. My point here is, Sam Darnold is too f'ing important to wait until the 3rd round to draft offense. 

That would be flat out irresponsible. 

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

As for WR, you can hold that belief, and you may have a point generally. However, it's not a stretch to say that the Jets WR group is bottom 10 in the league, which means that we have to provide that position with some talent. 

We dont need a Julio Jones, but if we could find a WR good enough to make Anderson our #2, Quincy our #3 and Crowder our #4 then the Jets have made quite the upgrade given that I would bet on Anderson against many #2 CB's as well as on Quincy or Crowder against #3/#4 guys. Anderson/Quincy as our top guys is a bottom 10 group in the league. 

Im not going to compare Tom Brady and the Patriots or the Rams....two SB teams with enough talent and coaching to the Jets, a team that cant even win a division or make the playoffs. 

If fully healthy, I would take our receivers over a few teams.

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56 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

If fully healthy, I would take our receivers over a few teams.

You'd probably take our receivers over 9 other teams. That would still make the Jets the bottom 10 in the league, which is my point. And even if you decided to overvalue our receivers. The bottomline is that the Jets offense was also bottom 10 in scoring 5 of it's last 6 seasons, including every season with Robby and Quincy as our top receivers. 

Are we to conclude that there's no need for an upgrade anywhere on the offense even when fully healthy? The last time the Jets had a top 10 defense the Jets had the #1 WR duo in the league that season (Marshall/Decker). 

 

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2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Automatically inevitable...from a Jets organization that I dont believe has ever traded back in the 1st round?????

Pretty ridiculous response. Add to the fact that the title of this thread is also about how we need to change the drafting philosophy, given that trading down is been nothing but an absolute improbability...given history and all. 

 

Huh? James Farrior and the Nuge say hi 

 

Both times the jets most recently traded down both were disastrous 

 

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1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

If fully healthy, I would take our receivers over a few teams.

We have no depth

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3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Huh? James Farrior and the Nuge say hi 

 

Both times the jets most recently traded down both were disastrous 

 

Did you say that the Jets traded down in the first round for Mike Nugent? 

 

Anyway, James Farrior had a borderline HOF career and that trade down happened 20 years ago. The problem isnt trading down from talent, it's making sure you're able to acquire talent with those extra picks. 

How ridiculous is it to act like trading down guarantees not just missing on guaranteed talent but also guarantees. you to draft busts? 

The Jets have not traded down in decades and the only superstar they've drafted is Jamal Adams, and that was at the expense of not trading down and drafting Watson or Mahomes. 

 

All these pass rushers and none of these dudes are winning championships. Quarterbacks with good-enough defenses are winning championships

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11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Did you say that the Jets traded down in the first round for Mike Nugent? 

 

Anyway, James Farrior had a borderline HOF career and that trade down happened 20 years ago. The problem isnt trading down from talent, it's making sure you're able to acquire talent with those extra picks. 

How ridiculous is it to act like trading down guarantees not just missing on guaranteed talent but also guarantees. you to draft busts? 

The Jets have not traded down in decades and the only superstar they've drafted is Jamal Adams, and that was at the expense of not trading down and drafting Watson or Mahomes. 

 

All these pass rushers and none of these dudes are winning championships. Quarterbacks with good-enough defenses are winning championships

The jets traded down for Nugent.  On planet earth that is a correct statement

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